全 107 件のコメント

[–]wtogami 53ポイント54ポイント  (8子コメント)

More importantly, Litecoin years ago discouraged the creation of spam outputs by imposing an additional fee for each spam output.

Bitcoin would have had a measurable amount of additional room now if we had dealt with the UTXO externality issue years ago when the problem was identified. Doing so would have imposed a cost on creating millions of uneconomically small outputs that bloat the blockchain both during creation and again when they are combined in transactions. There are a few easy steps like this that we could still add to encourage more efficient use of the Bitcoin blockchain.

[–]GibbsSamplePlatter 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is the fee set? The problem I foresee is the same problem we have on pricing externalities: We don't know how much it costs real world, and even if we could quantify, there's not a good way of signaling this to the system itself.

If we could solve this we could simply set a minimum transaction fee and get rid of blocksizes(well... game theoretically).

[–]Moosecountry05 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah Bitcoin for big transactions, litecoin for lite translations, and dogecoin for 5 cent candy transactions. ...gotta be a way to pay for an item at a retail shop using a pin pad then at that second Someone who pays In Bitcoin it then gets switched automatically to let's say litecoin depending on the amount you are buying I.e a smaller transaction, that litecoin can handle smaller transactions so it doesn't stress the Bitcoin blockchain out. Kind of a shapeshift idea when you pay in Bitcoin the users them self don't have to switch currency's based on the dollar amount they are spending so it's easier on the specific block chain..... ...does that make any sense to anyone? Feed back please

[–]btcdrak 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Believe it or not, bitcoin traders often use litecoin to move funds quickly between exchanges to take advantage of arbitrage opportunities.

[–]aminok 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The LN will end the need for that.

[–]violencequalsbad 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

my god this would be amazing.

[–]aminok 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah Bitcoin for big transactions, litecoin for lite translations, and dogecoin for 5 cent candy transactions.

Or how about avoid all of that additional friction and complexity, not to mention inflation of the Bitcoin money supply, and use bits for 5 cent candy transactions, mBTC for lite transactions, and BTC for big transactions.

EDIT: oh that explains why you're being upvoted: https://np.reddit.com/r/litecoin/comments/382odn/litecoin_discussion_happening_on_rbitcoin/

[–]jesset77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am with you on the "yeah, whatever chain I use I am just doing all of my commerce there", but if Bitcoin block congests then Bitcoin will stop being the chain I would use. So there's that.

Litecoin would probably get my business just because it's the best known alt and (I have checked to make sure that's still true) has the largest market cap to begin with, thus one would hope the best merchant adoption out of the gate.

But, all told, I would much prefer to stay with BTC by way of seeing the blocksize limit increased.

[–]NattyLiteCoin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Number 1 person I'd buy a Gyokuro Tea for? Warren fuckin Togami.

[–]Introshine 78ポイント79ポイント  (33子コメント)

Impossible. Even increasing the blocksize to 1.0001MB would cause Bitcoin and Litecoin to cease existing because the RAM requirement would go to 1203802TB and I cannot run it on my 28k2 modem Atari!

[–]pcdinh 28ポイント29ポイント  (8子コメント)

Peter Todd likes this lol

[–]PoliticalDissidents 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can someone explain to me why Peter Todd (and for that matter pretty much every core Dev but Gavin) don't want the block size increased? Is it just a matter of dispute as to how to increase it and what the limit should be or a "this block must not go one bit over a megabyte" type of dispute?

[–]jesset77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Primarily conflict of interest due to many of the other devs working for Blockstream and/or Viacoin.

But whatever: once blocks congest, Litecoin is most likely to get my money instead of either of those two outfits. :(

[–]BitcoinBlue -3ポイント-2ポイント  (22子コメント)

Lets be serious for a moment. 1MB every 10 minutes results in 50GB/year maximum. 20MB every 10 minutes results in 1TB/year.

1TB/year is quite a lot of space needed to run bitcoin... The current blockchain is 35 GB, the next year after changing to 20MB it could theoretically be 1035GB ...

Take into account the fact that many companies (visa, mastercard, western union and many more) will want to flood and spam the bitcoin network. We saw that it is possible to do during the latest stress testing.

[–]HanumanTheHumane 29ポイント30ポイント  (10子コメント)

I think you missed the main point: Litecoin already supports much larger blocks than Bitcoin, but the blocks are still smaller anyway! Just because it's supported, doesn't mean it will immediately happen.

[–]sqrt7744 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

This point is lost on many, it seems.

[–]Noosterdam 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

The argument is that if the cap is very high it will enable attacks that aren't worth it at just 1 or 4MB. Kind of a weird argument, though, because we could just up the cap gradually and see what happens.

[–]ferroh 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Kind of a weird argument, though, because we could just up the cap gradually and see what happens.

Well the proposed change by Gavin is to raise to 20 MB immediately, not gradually. So of course there is discussion about this.

[–]zombiecoiner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

20mb might be asking for too much so that a little bit (like 2mb) seems more reasonable.

[–]PoliticalDissidents 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's actually the same block size. Just that a block is solved 1/4th the time it takes to solve Bitcoin block. The end result is that a maximum of 4 MB of data can be put in the blockchain in 10 minutes (Bitcoin's block time). Litecoin has many of the same scalability problems of Bitcoin just that it isn't an immediate issuing because it is just a tad bit better at scaling than Bitcoin.

[–]rydan -4ポイント-3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Name three people that use Litecoin?

[–]TheMatrixShibe 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Me, some guy called /u/NattyLiteCoin (derp) and another 20kish people in /r/litecoin.

[–]NattyLiteCoin 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh I use it alright, I make the sweet love to Litecoin.

[–]TheMatrixShibe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Heheheheeee...

Thanks for the support. +/u/dogetipbot 100 doge

[–]jesset77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the face of literally ignoring them since personally writing the "alt discussions are off-topic" rule you see over in that sidebar, until this "let's break bitcoin on purpose because artificial scarcity sounds fun" debate, I can still name The Pirate Bay and BTC-E off the top of my head. I saw the Litecoin option at some other place where I spent Bitcoin recently too, but limiting myself to not Googling for it (as being unfair to your question in spirit) I forget which one.

That said, please venture beyond this sub and ask somebody you meet on the street how many places accept BTC. You'll be lucky if they've ever even heard of BTC.. or, if you live in Oregon you'll be lucky if they've ever even heard of the Internet. :P

[–]gubatron 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

1TB/year is quite a lot of space needed to run bitcoin...

you sound like Bill Gates a long time ago:

"640K ought to be enough for anybody."

[–]BTCisGod 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

We are all agreed it is in everybody's interest that we halt adoption until Lightning Networks shazzam us into the future. Just send new users to Litecoin. That's where all the spare capacity is and their node operators aren't a bunch of pussies.

[–]zombiecoiner 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I see that you have purchased Litecoin and stand to make a hefty amount of Monero with your initial Bitcoin Dollar investment.

[–]BTCisGod 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you see that spike in gold and silver prices today? Sweeeet.

[–]goldcakes 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're missing the point. The blocksize was 33.6 MB in 2010, and the biggest blocks were 80kB.

Just because the max is 20 MB doesn't mean it will be 20 MB.

[–]MrProper 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

1TB/year is quite a lot of space needed to run bitcoin

Yup, that's like a whole 60$ to buy a new hard drive every year! Madness I tell you!!!

Imagine how many millions of dollars in profit your company must generate using Bitcoin to afford that 60$ purchase. Oh the humanity...

[–]jesset77 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We must immediately force all users to pay $60 per transaction in "compete against everyone else in the world who wants to even move money" contests instead. :/

[–]FreeToEvolve 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well bitcoin has been running for about 5 years. 5 years multiplied by 1MB every 10 minutes is 262.8 GB. Shit I don't have enough spa-- wait... the blockchain is only 34GB!? But how? I don't... that can't... math... hurts brain... don't understand.

[–]bphase 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's no need to store the full blockchain. Storage isn't a real issue.

[–]singularity87 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This isn't happening now. Why would when it is even more difficult to do?

[–]aminok 51ポイント52ポイント  (11子コメント)

Dogecoin's is 10 MB! Only banks can run Dogecoin full nodes now.

[–]sqrt7744 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

My dogecoin rig. My mum complains about the noise sometimes, but I tell her, at 10MB blocks, there's just no other option.

[–]d4d5c4e5 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why don't we setup a bunch of Dogecoin full nodes and stress-test that network, and observe how current commodity hardware and home internet connections perform on full Dogecoin blocks? That's two birds one stone, because we would also see what happens with 1-minute blocks.

[–]peoplma 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do it. The stress test already happened though about 15 months ago. Dogecoin had the highest number of transactions per day of any crypto, for about 3 months straight. Doge still holds all the highest number of transaction per X unit of time records.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactions-btc-doge.html

[–]aminok 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Dogecoin txs require a tx fee of at least Ð1, meaning the stress test would cost money. Wouldn't it make more sense to set up a Bitcoin testnet with a 10 or 20 MB hard limit?

[–]d4d5c4e5 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't that only about 65 satoshis at the moment?

[–]aminok 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep

[–]Sovereign_Curtis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

So it would cost less than stress testing the bitcoin network...

[–]PhyllisWheatenhousen 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

For $1.50 you could send 10,000 transactions on the dogecoin network. Sounds like the cheapest stress test around.

[–]DRKMSTR 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or this: http://maddoge.com/?page_id=286

10MB/ 10 minutes is....166kb/second max download rate. Still doable, but will likely require a bit more umph.

[–]iseeyoulookinghere 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

Dump BTC. Buy LTC = Long Term Coin

[–]TheBitcoinArmy 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

= Lunar Travel Capabilities

[–]allgoodthings1 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

I tell you. Litecoin is looking better by the day.

[–]BTCisGod 10ポイント11ポイント  (8子コメント)

Bitcoin won't or chooses not to scale? No problemo, scale horizontally with other cryptos.

[–]the_dude_12321 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's just sad how little the general public knows about cryptocurrencies other than bitcoin. Unless you ask someone in the know, they've often never even heard of litecoin or dogecoin. I think it's just because bitcoin is so talked about in the media and everything that another cryptocurrency hasn't overtaken it for #1 spot

[–]darrenturn90 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I prefer Doge over Lite any day - and I'd rather prefer a non asic mined alternative either PoS(*) or something like Vertcoin.

[–]cryptoarb 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

it's about time bitcoiners stop bashing and accept litecoin as a peer and a complement that helps solving many bitcoin's problems, starting with this one regarding the block size. been saying that for almost 2 years. wake up taaaards.

[–]Moosecountry05 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah litecoin is the only alt. coin that hasn't tried or said litecoin vs Bitcoin, or that litecoin is better than Bitcoin. Litecoins moto from day one has been a complimentary coin to Bitcoin and wasn't created to compete and take over. The creator is very humble and wants Bitcoin to succeed heck he works for Bitcoin, all he wants is the 2 currency's to co- excist and work together and not fight

[–]notreddingit -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

If we're going to go that route we might as well choose something better than Litecoin.

[–]skilliard4 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

such as?

[–]dballing1 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

While I believe Bitcoin will always be around and in the top 3-4 coins, you can't dismiss Litecoin. Below I will breakdown many of the reasons I'm partly hedged in LTC.

Irrefutable Breakdown:

  • The LTC founder announced the coin in a fair manner back in 2011 after many were aware of the technology and potential.Whereas Satoshi may have announced Bitcoin, but no one knew of the potential so he was able to accumulate a million BTC without any real competition. This makes for a more fair distribution of the LTC network rather than exponentially enriching a small few.

  • Many diehard Bitcoiners dismiss Litecoin as simply a clone with a few tweaks. While this may be true, the LTC founder had the luxury of observing BTC in action and was able to make a couple beneficial tweaks. One being the that the confirmation times were too conservative and two, upping the supply so that it could be more abundant. In addition, he had the foresight of avoiding the issue of competing for Bitcoin miners so he changed the algo from Sha-256 to Scrypt.

  • Considering that Litecoin is a completely independent network (extremely similar to Bitcoin) secured by a different algo, anyone interested in BTC can hedge their risk of also being in LTC. A good analogy would be keeping all your money in one bank instead of two or three. Another analogy would be that there are 4 major credit card providers and not just one. This could hold true for crypto or at the very least the duality we see with Coke vs Pepsi, Walmart vs Target, McDonalds vs Burger King ... etc etc.

  • Face to face transactions based on my own experience with Bitcoin have proven to be frustrating. I know you don't technically have to wait for a first confirmation, but in doing so I've experienced a wait time greater than 10 min and up to 40 min. Without the use of third parties facilitating the transaction I'm sure many have had this same issue at least once. As an experiment, I tested this with Litecoin and while still not as fast as I'd like it to be, it was a much more enjoyable experience.

  • Doge which has the potential to become another popular coin is scrypt merged mined with LTC for security reasons. This means brand exposure and adoption of Doge could inadvertently bring additional exposure to LTC. In addition, LTC (along with BTC) is a deflationary currency/asset while Doge is an inflationary currency/asset which could bring about a good synergy in the future.

  • Charles Lee (or Coblee) is a well-known founder in the crypto community whereas Satoshi is anonymous. Coblee is very consistent about attending as many crypto-related events as possible which help furthers LTC exposure/adoption.

  • Charles also currently works as the engineering manager at Coinbase which could arguably be considered the biggest BTC corporation in the US. Coblee has made the claim that he will eventually (when it's the right time) push for LTC adoption at Coinbase. Coblee also has a brother named Bobby Lee who works as the CEO of BTCChina which is arguably the biggest BTC corporation in China. Despite BTCChina already supporting LTC I would assume it will always be supported since they're brothers.

  • The Bitcoin image in 2013 was definitely tarnished thanks to the MtGox fiasco along with other prior bad associations such as drugs, hacking, and money laundering. I polled several friends/family and asked, "Have you heard of Bitcoin? What do you think of it?" and the responses were alarming. "Bitcoin? you mean the internet money thing that the CEO hacked so he could steal everyone's funds?" Granted, that's not what happened, but people don't understand this technology and may have misinterpreted the news. I'm still patiently waiting for Bitcoin to recover, but when I asked about Litecoin they didn't know what that was (fresh brand with no negative associations).

  • I could go on, but I've got to go so I'll stop there.

[–]PumpkinFeet 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I actually bought some LTC just yesterday as I had similar thoughts. My main reason though is a hedge, like you said. If SHA 256 is cracked it's goodbye bitcoin- hello LTC. Hopefully the code has diverged sufficiently now that various potential hacks of bitcoin would not be feasible with LTC.

[–]wserd -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Also Mt Gox will begin trading LTC in two weeks :)

Kidding aside, if Bitcoin fails, another alt besides LTC will take the throne. LTC doesn't have enough changes implemented in to it to make it competitive against the vast number of alts on the market. It is too similar to Bitcoin.

Edit: The main thing being fungibility. If Bitcoin fails, an alt that has built in anonymity/privacy features, which makes it way more fungible and hard to censor, will take over.

[–]Moosecountry05 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

How can another alt coin take over when no one buys it? No ones going fall for shit coins anymore. Bitcoin litecoin and dogecoin will work together as one to solve this problem by sharing the combined block size to handle all the transactions from small to big. It will be the Fab 3

[–]wserd -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

lol nobody will fall for shit coins anymore...

Litecoin and Dogecoin are the biggest shitcoins there are. They have basically no innovation over Bitcoin. If Bitcoin dies, a coin with actual innovation will rise to the top.

[–]Moosecountry05 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

And which alt. coin is on the top of your list please share us your valuable info.

[–]wserd -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Peercoin, Bitshares, Monero, DASH, Stellar, NXT to name a few off the top of my head

[–]MoreTeaPleaseVicar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

blah, blah, bla, bla, blah

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[–]bphase 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

And dogecoin has 10MB blocks effectively. To the Moon!

[–]zipzo 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

... and it's already more bloated than Bitcoin. To the void!

[–]scrubadub 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Bitcoin is at 41.72gb and started in 1-9-2009, that's 2334 days or 18.3 mb/day

Doge is at 10.94gb and started in 12-8-2013, that's 540 days or 20.74 mb/day.

So yep it is more bloated considering storage size per day. (litecoin is at 4.45gb and started 2 years earlier than doge)

[–]notreddingit 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dogechain is bigger than the Bitcoin blockchain already?

[–]zipzo 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you go by age of the chain, yes. Dogecoin's chain will overtake Bitcoin's if it continues its path, and long before Dogecoin reaches six years.

[–]notreddingit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, ok thanks. There should be some pruning available at some point soon though I think too, so that might help. I don't know the details though, and if it's just for SPV nodes or what.

[–]PhyllisWheatenhousen -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

umm... dogecoin's blockchain is around 1/4th the size of bitcoin's blockchain.

[–]zipzo 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dogecoin's also less than 1/4 the age of Bitcoin.

[–]darrenturn90 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And dogecoin has 2.5 times more than that - so thats 10mb blocks surely?

Wow such doge!