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Social SciencesMillennials may be the least religious generation ever. (newscenter.sdsu.edu)

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[–]mayonnnnaise 195ポイント196ポイント  (109子コメント)

What's the scientific definition of "Millenials"? Because my grandparents, Vince McMahon, and other old folks seem to think I'm a millenial (30 years old), whereas my contemporaries and I seem to consider 10-23~ year olds to be millenials.

Edit: Thanks for all the great answers.

[–]two_in_the_bush 136ポイント137ポイント  (5子コメント)

"There are no precise dates when the generation starts and ends. Researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

[–]magmasafe 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wow, that's nearly two generations there.

[–]px403 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

There aren't many families who start popping out babies when they're 10 years old.

A generation should probably be around 20 to 35 years.

[–]TrevorBradley 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Considering how the age of a parent's first child is increasing, perhaps millennials are the generation where a "generation" changed from 20 years to 35?

No wonder it's confusing.

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      [–]interiorlittlevenice 70ポイント71ポイント  (34子コメント)

      Generally people born from 1982-2000, just like Gen X was from 1964-1982, and the Baby Boomers from 1946-1964. Each lasted approximately 18 years.

      Kids born today are not Millenials. They are 'Generation Z'.

      [–]socsa 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Generation "will probably all be killed by Zombies or something similarly catastrophic and related to Zombies."

      [–]_X____sign_here____ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Cool. Since I'm Gen X, I'll end up being the wise old coot who surprises everyone and goes out guns blazing.

      Or, get eaten while taking a poop.

      I'm cool with either I suppose.

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          [–]inormallyjustlurkbut 72ポイント73ポイント  (36子コメント)

          Marketing firms typically classify millennials as being currently 18-35. It's a ridiculously broad category.

          [–]idkwhatimdoinggg 36ポイント37ポイント  (5子コメント)

          It's not that broad. Generations typically span about 20 years; I think the average is actually 22 years.

          [–]PartTimePastor 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I'd like to think the distinction is really those who were sort of digital natives, and those who weren't. I was born in the mid 80's, but one of my parents made computer models for a living, so I had (for the time) extremely powerful and engaging computer systems in the house for my whole life. I can remember my mom teaching me how to type before I was school aged because "hand writing is going to be extinct when you grow up."

          For others, the tech shift came later; I know peers who are fare less tech-literate and information savvy than I am (have a harder time looking up things online, connecting with online groups to help with problems like home repair/cooking/etc.), which I think are things that help separate millennials from the last generation. I can't do anything without researching it online first, I won't ever ask for help until I've watched tutorials myself, I am an obsessive sharer and downloader of information, and I always have a zillion text/FB/snap/other social convos going on. Some people my age never took to this kind of behavior. I think it is a part of what defines what a millennial is.

          Of course, this is just my opinion.

          [–]detectivejamescarter 26ポイント27ポイント  (19子コメント)

          My tastes as a 27 year old vary so greatly from an 18 year old, I cant imagine the disparity between a 35 year old and 18 year old...

          [–]Vsx 60ポイント61ポイント  (13子コメント)

          As a 33 year old I can tell you that in my experience I like pretty much all the same things as you except I was a couple years too old to get into Pokemon.

          Me = You - Pokemon

          [–]milddepression 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Born too late to be generation x, born too early to be a millennial. Born just in time to be both.

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            [–]pharmacon 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

            But we also grew up with computers and the internet, not quite to the same degree but it's still super relevant to generational discussions. Basically, I wouldn't say that tastes are what dictates generations being that they are sure to change as you age anyways, I'm into a lot of different things at 30 than I was at 18.

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              [–]Sw2029 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

              That's pretty standard for a generational definition. It's usually about a twenty year span

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                [–]lord_allonymous 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                most common definition is starting at either 1980 or 1985. So, you probably squeak through.

                [–]BrainFameGame 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                We're those brats that just don't want to reach for that brass ring apparently.

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                  [–]vilnius2013[S] 233ポイント234ポイント  (74子コメント)

                  Original paper: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

                  [–]PaganButterChurner 306ポイント307ポイント  (68子コメント)

                  "Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support"

                  I'd like to think that people are more informed now to make a decision. People as a whole are more educated about these things, and have information readily available. It's not so easy for Government/Religion to influence people as they once were.

                  we've come a long way, I believe these are positive trends. And mind you, I am a Christian.

                  [–]Pac-Monster 96ポイント97ポイント  (29子コメント)

                  That's a good thing to hear from a christian. As an atheist, I appreciate you.

                  [–]newworkaccount 59ポイント60ポイント  (18子コメント)

                  I think Christians should definitely view this as a positive. Cultural Christianity prevents a deep engagement with faith -- it's like a vaccine against a real conversion. How do you convert someone who already believes they're a Christian?

                  The lines being drawn more clearly-- being allowed to -- benefits both Christians and atheists.

                  Mind you, I'm an agnostic.

                  [–]flameruler94 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Yep, growing up I was always a Christian because, well, my family was. And I think this is a bad trend. Now I consider myself a Christian because I've spent a lot of time thinking about it and consciously deciding to be one. Overall it's better. You should think very seriously about what you believe. I know so many people from home (rural PA, and particularly middle age people) that just blindly follow Christianity without even contemplating other options.

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                      [–]ImWrongYoureRight 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      It's not so easy for Government/Religion to influence people as they once were.

                      Corporations just do it now as part of social media.

                      [–]KrasnyRed5 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I also think that conservative religious views don't fit well with the millennial world view. Many millennials don't agree wiht stance some churches have taken against homosexuality. This serves to drive them away from religion. I am sure there are other issues that millennials and religion do not agree on.

                      http://theweek.com/articles/450205/why-are-millennials-less-religious-not-just-because-gay-marriage

                      [–]netojpv 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      I fail to see how people nowadays are using the overflow of information to make better decisions. What I actually see is people becoming more and more bigoted and one sided, since no matter what point of view you have about a subject, you'll find plenty of people and pages on the internet endorsing it. The internet (aka google and facebook) even uses your cookies to guarantee that you'll only see political positions, products and news that you'd like to see.

                      Maybe this generation will mark the end of the big dominations (state, religion, tv) and the beginning of the micro-dominations. There's no "kantian enlightenment" anywhere to be seen IMO

                      [–]PhilosophizingCowboy 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      You're right.

                      People were less of a bigot when the only information they had was traveling merchants and a town crier.

                      [–]Sycosys 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's better to have too much information and have to learn how to parse it than to have too little information and never learn a thing.

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                            [–]R3g 1192ポイント1193ポイント  (377子コメント)

                            I love the conclusion: young people are less religious? must be because of selfishness, because, what else could it be?

                            [–]ChemEBrew 761ポイント762ポイント  (338子コメント)

                            The paper suggests many factors contributing to the lower religion. Individualism was just one.

                            Also, individualism and selfishness are not one in the same.

                            [–]MaggotBarfSandwich 1706ポイント1707ポイント  (326子コメント)

                            Here's the primary reason and it's blatantly obvious: access to the internet.

                            It's the first generation raised where collectively they haven't been brought up in bubbles and can actually hear, see, and read opinions and beliefs outside what their parents and immediate social circles want them to exposed to. Just awareness of the existence of people with differing beliefs goes a long way to having people critically question their own beliefs, not to mention knowing why they believe those things.

                            This is obvious. Maybe there's other factors at work but "individualism" as a main idea (as proposed in the paper) is biased and absurd, and on some level insulting even if it plays a role. For the authors not to even mention the Internet as a possibility shows they are dumber than I am.

                            [–]gmac3001 609ポイント610ポイント  (174子コメント)

                            Once I realized that there are people on the other side of the globe that believe just as much as I did that they are correct in their religious believe, I lost faith.

                            Whenever I asked how we knew we were right and other religions were wrong I never got a real answer because there isn't one.

                            [–]Lampmonster1 68ポイント69ポイント  (13子コメント)

                            I grew up in an isolate area, attended a religious school, everyone I knew was Christian of some kind. So, I just kind of figured believing was the default. I remember the first time I heard someone say they didn't believe in god. It was an older student, and I half think he said it just to cause trouble, which it did. He was thrown out of class. I remember thinking, why would someone even say that? Well, I was a reader, so as I read more and more I realized that not everyone did believe. This led me to ask myself if I believed. Oddly enough, I kind of realized that I never had, I'd just kind of gone along. I thought it all over, and still do from time to time, and realized nobody had ever given me a solid argument for why I should accept this premise of god. Still have never heard one. So, I have to agree that in many cases it is likely simple knowledge of alternatives and awareness that one's own belief system is not pervasive or natural, at least in my own case.

                            [–]no_YOURE_sexy 166ポイント167ポイント  (80子コメント)

                            Theyd probably answer "I have faith that I'm right". Not much you can say to that.

                            [–]gerbaire 122ポイント123ポイント  (65子コメント)

                            "I have faith because I have faith" is quite the logical fallacy. But each to their own.

                            [–]dubski35 95ポイント96ポイント  (51子コメント)

                            Correct me if I'm wrong, but using faith to believe something exists isn't logical to begin with.

                            [–]Gruzman 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            There is no perfect method of attaining and checking one's knowledge so, at some level, "faith" is required in one's method of analysis (that it will continue to provide reliable answers, results, etc). Thus, everyone has some kind of faith, if not a specific religious kind.

                            [–]Eudaimonics 19ポイント20ポイント  (14子コメント)

                            At the end of the day though you cannot prove with 100% certainty that anything actually exists without at least a small leap of faith.

                            Human sensual experiences are easily influenced and manipulated. What if you are just a brain in a vat, or you are in a coma and dreaming your reality? This is philosophy 101 stuff.

                            [–]MiracleWhippit 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            What if the whole world is virtual reality powered by a billion real potatoes?

                            You never know.

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                                [–]c4sanmiguel 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                That's only a satisfying answer if if you still have faith, though. To someone having a crisis of faith, it's a pretty transparent excuse and doesn't do much to address your insecurity.

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                                    [–]RagingNerdaholic 71ポイント72ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                    When I asked that question, my mother kept repeating, "you gotta go with what you know," as if a rhyming chant was somehow conclusive evidence.

                                    [–]not_charles_grodin 25ポイント26ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    Today we call it Sloganeering and it's everything from, "If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit" to "Be all that you can be" and far too many political bumperstickers. But phonemic awareness of "You snooze, you lose" type stanzas goes back to both our individual development and societal evolution. Things are just easier to remember when the fit together.

                                    That being said, there is a reason that Shakespeare included the line, "When in the why and the wherefore is neither rhyme nor reason?" in a Comedy of Errors. Usually, when someone tries to use it in a deliberate attempt to convince you of something, it is because it is supposed to substitutes the rhyme in place of reason. Because if there were a good reason, you would lead with that and let the other person argue the facts and not you.

                                    Rhyming back and forth does have it's place, this is my favorite example.

                                    [–]vincentrevelationsBS|Computer Science 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Was rhyme ever considered to be as valid as reason? I could believe that this wasn't far fetched for Medieval people, if they'd have a metaphysical view on language.

                                    [–]IanMcFluffigus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    "See a dog with a fluffy face, you'll never go to outer space."

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                                      [–]grumbledum 36ポイント37ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                      I realized, after talking to people of all different faiths, that we all are certain that our beliefs are the correct beliefs. And, each and every person who is devout in their faith raises points that just cannot be disputed or proven wrong. So, while I still very much believe in a creator, that is about it. I don't think what spiritual path you take matters. I guess I'm a deist in that regard.

                                      [–]Puddl3glum 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      That's the trick, isn't it? Religion and the supernatural are, by definition, outside the realm of knowing and thus untestable and unfalsifiable. You can believe pretty much whatever you want, but it's unprovable.

                                      [–]Ftpini 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      The burden of proof lay with the person claiming the existence of something beyond reality, not with the person hearing that claim.

                                      [–]tughdffvdlfhegl 34ポイント35ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Welcome on the path towards Atheism. Most of us started in a similar spot and eventually arrived at Agnostic Atheism where we have no evidence, so we don't presuppose that there is any sort of god, and generally just ignore the whole thing.

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                                        [–]RoadtoboulderMS | Software Engineering 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        This was it for me. I still chuckle when I hear people state how glad they are to have been born where they were because they believe in the true god.

                                        [–]tughdffvdlfhegl 43ポイント44ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        You're all going to be wishing you were Greeks from 700BC when Zeus starts ripping lightning bolts at the non-believers.

                                        [–]watafBS| Biomedical Engineering 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        One of the biggest qualms I have with Christianity is that it is so unchristian to have someone go to hell based on where and when they are born. Human sacrifice was part of the religion of the Aztecs(or Mayan or both?) as well as I'm sure, many other cultures. Many people born in these times and places didn't really choose to be complacent with or actively participate in murder. They were born into a culture where it was an inexorable part of their religion. They couldn't have repented because it wasn't wrong for them. Yet according to the bible, although it is fairly ambiguous and up to interpretation, it is very likely they would go to hell for these kind of acts. How is that Christian?

                                        [–]catjuggler 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        My favorite is "because God loves YOU and wouldn't have matched YOU with the wrong religion."

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                                          [–]DownvoteMeansAgree 156ポイント157ポイント  (36子コメント)

                                          I think a large reason is, millenials aren't taken to church in the first place. Gen Xers and boomers were still taken to church in large numbers as kids. Many stopped going to church as adults, and hence didn't take their kids, who weren't exposed to religion by default.

                                          [–]Level3Kobold 22ポイント23ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                          I was taken to church regularly by my grandparents, but I still stopped believing when I was 12 or so.

                                          [–]chernobog13 19ポイント20ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                          Same here. Around the time I was 11 or 12 I started questioning, and no one could give me answers other than "you need to have faith". I don't want to have blind faith, I want to figure out why things are the way they are.

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                                            [–]yaypal 33ポイント34ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                            Agreed, I think only one or two of my friends out of many ever went to church, and it wasn't a regular attendance. It was sort of a requirement from their parents but even then the adults were sort of... there because they were used to going from their parents. It's a cycle that's slowly being broken down.

                                            [–]Kazuke86 15ポイント16ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                            Good. I think religion can be a beautiful thing. But not when it's solely sustained by habit and guilt. It has to come from within.

                                            [–]yaypal 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            That's how I decided to label myself agnostic, if that's considered a religion at all. Either way, I'm glad it came from self-reflection and not from anybody else telling me what to believe.

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                                                [–]I8thegreenbean 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                This is the case for my children, ages 18 and 11. I grew up going to church 2-3 times a week. My children have never been to church.

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                                                  [–]mccoyn 116ポイント117ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                  awareness of the existence of people with differing beliefs

                                                  I think it is even less profound than that. The internet is the new social network, religion was the old social network. Church used to be the social experience of the town. If you give up religion, you become a pariah with diminishing numbers of friends. It was worth it to play along even if you weren't convinced. Now, you can go online and find people with similar interests. You can keep in touch with old friends from high school. You can play games with people who have moved a thousand miles away. Fitting into the majority opinion of the local population just isn't as important as it once was.

                                                  [–]ca178858 22ポイント23ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                  I remember an NPR segment from more than a decade ago- where they attempted to identify and interview the most active church goers. Active in the sense of: organization of events, volunteering, etc.

                                                  In private they pretty much all said that they weren't that sure about their faith, but that they 'were there for the community'.

                                                  I took it with a grain of salt (along with all stories/documentaries that are out to prove a point), but it fits with what I've seen over the years too.

                                                  [–]serpentinepad 28ポイント29ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                  I kept going for a few years even though I was an atheist because I was a business owner in a small town.

                                                  [–]FortuitousAdroit 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  I kept going for a few years even though I was an atheist because I was a business owner in a small town

                                                  And this is precisely the type of reason why religion has persisted in 'small town America' whilst simultaneously dying off in larger cities.

                                                  [–]serpentinepad 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Oh yeah, no doubt. There is tremendous social pressure to be part of a church in a small town. It's just one of those things people always ask. Where do you live, do you have kids, where do you go to church.

                                                  [–]socokid 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Moved into a new house in a small town 5 years ago. Second question from neighbor was "Which Church are you going to go to?"

                                                  cringe (atheists)

                                                  Just said "Oh, we're still looking..." They do not talk to us much...

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                                                    [–]vsTerminus 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    My coworker's sister is a volunteer youth group leader for a local church.

                                                    From what I'm told she's not particularly religious, but she enjoys working with the kids and the community so she keeps doing it.

                                                    [–]zootam 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    While good, that's part of the problem. People and organizations should be doing these things outside of religious affiliation.

                                                    [–]vsTerminus 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    There are non-religious youth groups around here too. She works for that one because her parents took her to that church when she was a child. It was just sort of a natural extension to volunteer there instead of somewhere else.

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                                                        [–]TheRiverStyx 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        This is really the answer. Global access to information and ideas that are not conducive to their continued beliefs in the things their parents take for granted and never questioned. In seconds you can find very well written and thought-inducing articles on any subject imaginable. The truth is that the freely available information on the internet has inculcated the concept into the minds of previously religious families that religion is a mythology just like the stories you read about Zeus and Thor.

                                                        However, this will have a drawback as religious fundamentalists get more savvy to the use of these technologies they will have a more and more adversarial attitude toward any expression of these concepts and will create virtual walled fortresses of their religion online. We're already seeing it today where you can't even post a contrary opinion or question the concepts before you're banned or it is outright removed.

                                                        [–]ChemEBrew 38ポイント39ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                        The idea that the Internet is a contributing factor is a great hypothesis. However these researchers interviewed subjects on questions that indicated a stronger sense of individualism for atheists. A good follow up study would be to interview individuals on how they became atheist. These researchers aren't dumb. This is just how science is done. The suggested reasons were actually tested and showed positive correlation. And I don't see why individualism is bad.

                                                        [–]XgenDLC 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        And saying that more individualism means more atheism doesn't make any sense to me because (correct me if I'm wrong) Japan has a culture of collectivism and yes they might have many 'spiritual' traditions, but most people there are atheists. Or does this individualism theory only apply to the US?

                                                        [–]Blubbey 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        In my experience at least it wasn't even that. With the people I knew when growing up, it was really "well why should I believe it?" from what I can tell. Didn't talk about it at all between ourselves, had the very occasional local church guy talk about stuff in assemblies (maybe twice a year) but other than that, nothing.

                                                        [–]rainbow_llama_dragon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        The Internet has helped me in so many ways. I'm gay, and I can't imagine what my life would be like right now if I couldn't do all the research and talk to all the people that I did. It has also educated a lot of straight people and promoted positive opinions and support that would not have been possible without social media and endless amounts of information. It's an exciting time to be alive!

                                                        [–]SonnyMalone 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Ding ding ding, we have a winner. It's the information age.

                                                        [–]guer_j 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        Absutletly this. If anything, this younger generation is by far less individualistic than my generation, the 80s gen. For example, as a software engineer, it's amazing the increase amount of selfish cooperation you find in this industry lately. There are tons of free programming libraries around; back in my time everyone was just trying to make a buck out of everything.

                                                        [–]vsTerminus 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        selfish cooperation

                                                        Did you mean selfless cooperation?

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                                                            [–]KaliYugaz 103ポイント104ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                            I think you're misinterpreting it. Individualism makes people turn inwards, and distrust social institutions, community rituals, and received wisdom. Individualism doesn't necessarily mean selfishness.

                                                            [–]PM_ME_UR_TITHES 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Individualism's best synonym would be self-assuredness, which makes it a little easier to see why this is happening.

                                                            Need to know how the world came to be? Choose the explanation that makes the most sense to you, instead of just folllowing the one your parents or other authority figures hold. Need a community or team? Find the one that offers the specific environment and benefits that you need, not just the typical or "normal" one for your social situation. It's really no wonder that a majority of people consider the best choice for them to be a non-church environment.

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                                                              [–]dopadelic 50ポイント51ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                              I hate seeing individualism being related to selfishness. Individualism is about being comfortable with creating your own identity that best fits your own perceptions and experiences of this world, and respecting other's identities because you recognize others may have differences in their own perceptions of the world.

                                                              In this sense, individualism is less compatible with religion since with religion, you are required to form a large part of your identity based on the supreme authority of an ancient text.

                                                              [–]SelfReconstruct 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              It's funny that we are called selfish after what the baby boomers have done/still doing to this country.

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                                                                [–]Kiss-my-neck 575ポイント576ポイント  (90子コメント)

                                                                I think internet has something to do with this -along with many other factors. I raised in neighborhood with quite religious people and i always thought i was a freak to even question the presence of god. So i didn't. But then i started using the internet, really using and i met science. Than i met other people like me(a few pedos but mostly great pals). I started reading, lots and lots of reading. All these gave me enough perspective to think about subjects bigger than myself. If you have courage to question things "you are not allowed to", not always but most of the time rejecting any religion just happens. If i was left alone, i would most likely marry at age 17 and forget that my brain even existed. But now i get to be a scientist hopefully. Thanks to my supportive family, my luck and also internet.

                                                                [–]thai_tong 232ポイント233ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                                Social groups keep people in a religion, if everyone you know is Christian then it is hard to go against the curve, only a brave few break away from the crowd. When your friends are irreligious it is easy to associate yourself with that and step away from religion.

                                                                With the Internet people can come from communities where everyone is religious but still become fiends with people on the other side of the world who are not religious.

                                                                [–]Thefriendlyfaceplant 100ポイント101ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                Social bubbles are so incredibly deceptive. Yesterday I received a parcel that was wrapped in a European-African newspaper, target audience: African Immigrants.

                                                                Like an entirely new reality opened up. These people exist, they have their own interests and narrative, they have their own concerns and worries, they have their own unique advertisers promoting their own unique products to them, there's dissidence between columnists and it goes on and on.

                                                                Before I stumbled on that newspaper they were a cardboard cutout to me.

                                                                [–]upvotesarecoming 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                From a European war refugee in America and who studied abroad in the southern region of Africa, thank you! It's very hard to give this perspective to someone...they have to see it themself!

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                                                                  [–]capnjack78 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  Social groups keep people in a religion, if everyone you know is Christian then it is hard to go against the curve, only a brave few break away from the crowd.

                                                                  To be honest, I believe this has the same effect now on people who believe in God but are surrounded by people who do not. I know kids who dare not admit their families go to church for fear of being ostracized.

                                                                  [–]gtfomylawnplease 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                  Brave? In my neighborhood they would burn my house down. Seriously, the most "Popular" people here are the type who brag about their church group. I wouldn't tell a single one of them I'm an Atheist for any amount of money. Well, I take that back. Enough money to move I probably would. I am almost tempted to go to church here just so I have people to hang out with.

                                                                  [–]Viddion 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                  Where do you live? Or if that's too personal then what religion? Mormons is my guess

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                                                                      [–]waveswan 50ポイント51ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                      I suspect that quite a lot of it is also has less to do with analysis and reasoning, and more to do with clashes in ideology between religious institutions and other parts of society. Whether it is opposition to the teaching of evolution, restrictions on abortion access, homophobia or backwards attitudes to sexual education, religion is taking quite a beating in public debates. It is of course not accurate to claim that the people opposing these things are all religious, or that all religious people do, but it can nevertheless swing the opinion of somebody who is undecided about religious ideas.

                                                                      Even highly educated and intelligent individuals are remarkably good at coming up with arguments to favour the ideas they want to believe in, so it is ever as much a matter of whether people see religion as good or bad, as whether they think it accurate or incorrect.

                                                                      [–]Face_Roll 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      I tend to agree.

                                                                      I still think that the best reasoning and arguments are on the side of atheism, but this isn't actually what's turning people away. Religion now just looks hokey and backwards, and more often than not manifests in clearly dis-tasteful ways.

                                                                      To summarize:

                                                                      "What is now decisive against Christianity is our taste, no longer our reasons"

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                                                                          [–]JenkinsEar147 137ポイント138ポイント  (88子コメント)

                                                                          I don't think this is true at all in the 2nd or 3rd world.

                                                                          Perhaps it's just safer for more people to 'out' themselves as non-religious then it I has ever been.

                                                                          Christianity is booming in China (especially Protestant denominations) and Islam is also extremely popular in the 2nd world where population growth rates are high.

                                                                          [–]godarni 37ポイント38ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                          Christianity is booming in China (especially Protestant denominations)

                                                                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#Mainland_China

                                                                          I wouldn't call a tenth of a percentage increase over 10 years to be "booming", although due to the massive population, anything can be made to sound significant in China.

                                                                          [–]Suibian_ni 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          I met a Chinese guy doing a PhD on the topic. He observed it's mainly among the old and poor in remote areas; they've been left behind by the economic and ideological sea change, and see it as a good way to re-knit their communities. Korean missionaries are working hard to evangelise in these areas, but I didn't see much sign that younger Chinese are into it.

                                                                          [–]IWantAnAffliction 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Isn't China one of the most atheist and anti-religion countries in the world, on top of this?

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                                                                            [–]RIPelliott 19ポイント20ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                            Reporting in from Algeria. Religion, even with consistent internet access, is still dominant here for mostly all of us. I noticed a few less pious Muslims than in previous generations (mostly in the capital city; still largely untouched in the smaller villages) but everyone is still a steadfast believer in Allah. Allahi barak!

                                                                            [–]Chessmasterrex 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                            Algeria isn't really that far up there in regards to internet penetration. Here's a list showing it's 155th from last out of 211 nations.

                                                                            It's roughly 15% of households compared to 85% in the USA.

                                                                            I think internet access probably does contribute to lack of religiosity. Just look at the whole of the very Atheist scandinavian nations being above 90%.

                                                                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users

                                                                            [–]Yuli-Ban 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            It's still dominant in the US as well. Being irreligious isn't the same as being an atheist or agnostic.

                                                                            I was irreligious for years before going agnostic. It just means you accept a Creator (whether that be God or a Simulator) but it doesn't affect your private or public life. Like a Deist.

                                                                            [–]phacey 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            Developed and developing are the terms we use these days.

                                                                            [–]Suburbanturnip 76ポイント77ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                                            The USSR has fallen... who do you think you are referring to as the second world?

                                                                            [–]CwrwCymru 112ポイント113ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                                                            Second world still refers to the former communist - socialist states. e.g. Russia, eastern Europe, China and places like Kazakhstan.

                                                                            [–]Calculusbitch 57ポイント58ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                                            I don't think people understand how bad the living situation is in a lot of the former USSR and other eastern european countries. While it is obviously not on the same level of the worst of African versus Western Europe it is really really bad in some parts.

                                                                            [–]Nachteule 28ポイント29ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                            Gross domestic product (GDP) per capita of Kazakhstan is world rank 49 ($24,214). For comparison, Turkey is 61, Mexico 67, France 25, United States 10 and Qatar 1 ($136,727).

                                                                            So if Mexico is 2nd world, then eastern Europe is second world.

                                                                            Image of Kazakhstans capital city

                                                                            Supermarket in Kazakhstan

                                                                            [–]niuguy 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            I always thought Kazakhstan had terrible income distribution. As in, the state controlled oil companies generated tons of wealth but most people never saw it.

                                                                            [–]ORD_to_SFO 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            Huh...I've never actually seen any pictures of Kazakhstan, and that blew my mind. The supermarket picture was taken in 2009, they might have flying cars by now for all I know. Very interesting!

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                                                                              [–]Zuhorer 42ポイント43ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                              I think claims like this are extremely overstated. There is still running water, people still have access to good food and decent enough jobs. Sure, some places are worse off than others, but I think people have this notion of a post-apocalyptic world where people are scavengers, which is simply untrue.

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                                                                                  [–]BodyPhysics 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                  "[Second world] is still used to describe countries that are in between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently, the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition."

                                                                                  [–]BackRoadMotorcycles 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                  s still used to describe countries that are in between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently, the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition."

                                                                                  Oh wikipedia...

                                                                                  You should read the actual source that blurb cites. It does not justify the opinion of the wikipedia article.

                                                                                  ... First, Second, and Third world reflects value judgement, in which first means "best" and third means "worst," and it is therefore best avoided.

                                                                                  - Sociology by Anthony Giddens

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                                                                                      [–]ze_ben 86ポイント87ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                                      Still, the number of millennials I meet who believe gluten is the devil, aspartame and GMO crops cause cancer, American Spirit cigarettes are healthier, etc., etc., is astoundingly high. Religion may be on the decline, but magical thinking and faith-based life choices are here to stay.

                                                                                      [–]I_love_it_16 41ポイント42ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                      I don't think that's considered magical thinking... that's called being really misinformed.

                                                                                      [–]EarthExile 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      Potato, po-homeopathy-o.

                                                                                      [–]Michamus 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                      While I would like to agree that it is simply misinformation, it is not. These people are "The True(TM) Believer. They are willfully misinformed so as to put themselves on an imagined pedestal, preaching The Truth(TM) to the masses. You can spot these folks by their unwillingness to be swayed, despite overwhelming, verifiable evidence. Take the anti-vax or truther movement for example. No amount of scientific studies will sway the core members.

                                                                                      [–]ze_ben 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      No. Not any more than believing in Creationism is misinformed. The evidence is abundant in one direction, but a believer can tune it out.

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                                                                                          [–]theanatomyofpainting 62ポイント63ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                          Wasn't there just an article on the front page several weeks ago that graphed how different religions would grow over time? Now I feel like Reddit is falling into the mainstream media pitfalls of whatever gets the most likes, it's our fault really.

                                                                                          Edit: grammar

                                                                                          [–]BigClifty 62ポイント63ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Are you talking about the recent Pew Study?

                                                                                          It claimed (based on its data) that (in America), the number of people who believe/follow certain religious sects will continue to increase, but the percentage of people who follow follow/believe certain religious sects will continue to fall. So the nation as a whole will continue to be increasingly less religious, even if sects can claim "oh but the number of people in our sect has risen!"

                                                                                          It would be like me claiming that out of the 1000 people in my town, 100 of them thought red was the best color. Then several years later I found that 110 people thought red was the best color, but the town now consisted of 2000 people. The number of people who liked red may be up from the last time we counted, but they are down percentage wise.

                                                                                          [–]greenhalagog 79ポイント80ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          Well, with population growing exponentially, it's possible for a lower proportion of people to be religious while the number of people in each religion is still growing

                                                                                          [–]Codemancer 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          There also have been other articles that backed this one. If I remember right, they focused on American religion specifically Christianity. It also stated the younger generation chooses not to accept religion. I think religion can grow while younger people choose not to accept it.

                                                                                          [–]two_in_the_bush 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                          That Pew report was showing worldwide growth. (Edit: http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projections-2010-2050/)

                                                                                          This one studies the U.S. in particular.

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                                                                                            [–]voltairespen 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                            Religion makes people less afraid of death. It comforts them to think a special invisible friend and his winged seraphim care about you and your petty trials. Once we knew that we could die religion was a natural outgrowth of trying to reassure ourselves that we would not just be gone but that we would have an afterlife. Religion's main unstated purpose is to promote a belief in the afterlife.

                                                                                            Why do you think all societies regardless of location, technological progression, and language developed rituals and ceremonies around dying and birth?

                                                                                            [–]Blubbey 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                                            Someone made a comment but it seems to be deleted.

                                                                                            There's a whole inner life available to people through reflection and meditation on the meaning of the universe

                                                                                            You don't have to be spiritual to do these things.

                                                                                            [–]PCCP82 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                            But that is the textbook definition of spiritual if I'm not mistaken.

                                                                                            [–]skepticalDragon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                            No, you can reflect and meditate on meaning without ever believing in the supernatural or spirits/souls.

                                                                                            [–]Blubbey 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                            Is it? I thought that would be more "soul" or "spirit" type things. I was thinking they would be more philosophical rather than spiritual.

                                                                                            [–]Subbmerged 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                            philosophy and spirituality oftentimes go hand in hand. Just remember that being spiritual doesn't necessarily mean being religious.

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                                                                                              [–]shamrockjew 20ポイント21ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                                                              I teach in a Baltimore City High School and I can tell you that the majority of my teenagers are incredibly religious. Might just be a regional thing, but belief in Christ is strong in Baltimore's black community - even the younger generations who are avid internet users and digesters of social media.

                                                                                              [–]berryberrygood 58ポイント59ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                              Belief tends to be higher among the poorer, because it helps them cope/rationalize their lot in life. I'm sure there are many other factors, but a lot of scientific papers have shown this correlation.

                                                                                              [–]upvotesarecoming 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                              It's really sad how inner city (usually minorities) are even behind on the "religion is fazing away" progression. They can't catch a break.

                                                                                              [–]masturbateawy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                              That's just the thing, they don't feel it is negative. Religion is still a pillar of the black community. If I were to move into any large black community, I would easily be able to find assistance with childcare, clothing, housing and finding a job if I attended a church. I don't see the black community moving away from religion any time soon it is just to entwined with the structure of the community.

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                                                                                                  [–]Porkins67 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                  Definitely regional. I grew up in California and now live in the Dallas, TX region. The differences between the two in terms of religion are night and day.

                                                                                                  For myself, I'm a Gen Xer that rejected religion early on and haven't brought up my kids with it. It's a little hard to fit in here since religion is so prevalent, but that's probably more about me being an introvert than non-religious.

                                                                                                  [–]FortuitousAdroit 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                  Religion in America is definitely, unquestionably regional.

                                                                                                  Your other observations are in line with the study abstract:

                                                                                                  The declines are larger among girls, Whites, lower-SES individuals, and in the Northeastern U.S., very small among Blacks, and non-existent among political conservatives. Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support.

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                                                                                                    [–]95regenrator 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                    Not true.. there is a whole cult behind CLG.

                                                                                                    [–]Rickalicious9738 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    What a shocker. After all, organized religion is the single most corrupt business in the world today. I'm 50 and have turned my back on it entirely.

                                                                                                    [–]fetus_with_moss_hair 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                    TL;DR: Society nowdays is too individualistic and knowledge-based to try to believe in religions, that are community based and faith-based. The lack of flexibility (too traditionalist) and bad inide-politics of religions are tainting the image of all religions, and internet is helping to spread that word.

                                                                                                    My idea is that religion is dying because technology and politics. Technology is very different of religion. Religion is faith based, you need to believe that some things are the way they are because god say so, not things like "thunders are god's fury" but things like "god blessed you with his love" and things like that. You can't prove that its true, you NEED to believe is true. Meanwhile technology is without any faith. You maybe don't know how some things work, but you know that if you study or investigate the machine itself you can understand (someday) how it works. Technology is completely faith-voided.

                                                                                                    Kids born in the +2000 are growing in the electronic boom, where they are required to learn about technology, about a mentallity of "you want to understand something? learn how it works and you will", something that religion is not. So the actual culture is more knowledge-based than faith-based.

                                                                                                    The other major thing is religion politics. You see religion figures doing silly or stupid things, like pederasty... or opposing things that you don't know why are bad... like same-gender marriage. You were brought up in a society that its trying to include same-sex relationships and then you see some religions that say that that is a sin... of course you think is stupid. Even if its not your prefered religion, it taints the image you have of ALL religions. You happen to don't know how religion 27 works? then you assume is vey similar to religion 26, wich you heard be against gay couples... so then you think that religion 27 is bad too.

                                                                                                    It doesn't help that many religions are too close-minded to cultural changes. Even the catholic church had Latin ceremonies until like 50 years ago. The globality of Internet doesn't help religion either.

                                                                                                    Nowdays the only real religious kids are religious because they were brought up in very religious families.

                                                                                                    Also, there needs to be noted that there are people that believe in god, but doesn't identificate with any church, because politics. Like, you believe that you have a soul, the heaven and all that, but don't like the system of the most famous religion that aligns with your beliefs. So, there is also a boom of people that don't stick with any "real" religion but have their own beliefs. And those beliefs aren't communitary. Doesn't have mass ceremonies, religious figures or any festivity. They believe in what they want.

                                                                                                    [–]elkazzay 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                    I find it interesting that we're seen as "fleeing religion" rather than refusing to join it.... As if everyone is supposed to be a part of it

                                                                                                    [–]Brodehouse 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                                    All the religious tendencies remain, redirected to non-supernatural concerns.

                                                                                                    [–]copycat 28ポイント29ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                    Mother nature is a pretty popular replacement. Now give up your chemicals and gmo crops in favor of ancient farming practices.

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