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Social SciencesMillennials may be the least religious generation ever. (newscenter.sdsu.edu)

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[–]vilnius2013[S] 174ポイント175ポイント  (31子コメント)

Original paper: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121454

[–]PaganButterChurner 122ポイント123ポイント  (27子コメント)

"Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support"

I'd like to think that people are more informed now to make a decision. People as a whole are more educated about these things, and have information readily available. It's not so easy for Government/Religion to influence people as they once were.

we've come a long way, I believe these are positive trends. And mind you, I am a Christian.

[–]Pac-Monster 32ポイント33ポイント  (6子コメント)

That's a good thing to hear from a christian. As an atheist, I appreciate you.

[–]atheos 38ポイント39ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now kiss

[–]newworkaccount 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think Christians should definitely view this as a positive. Cultural Christianity prevents a deep engagement with faith -- it's like a vaccine against a real conversion. How do you convert someone who already believes they're a Christian?

The lines being drawn more clearly-- being allowed to -- benefits both Christians and atheists.

Mind you, I'm an agnostic.

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        [–]mayonnnnaise 73ポイント74ポイント  (25子コメント)

        What's the scientific definition of "Millenials"? Because my grandparents, Vince McMahon, and other old folks seem to think I'm a millenial (30 years old), whereas my contemporaries and I seem to consider 10-23~ year olds to be millenials.

        Edit: Thanks for all the great answers.

        [–]two_in_the_bush 51ポイント52ポイント  (0子コメント)

        "There are no precise dates when the generation starts and ends. Researchers and commentators use birth years ranging from the early 1980s to the early 2000s."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials

        [–]inormallyjustlurkbut 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Marketing firms typically classify millennials as being currently 18-35. It's a ridiculously broad category.

        [–]idkwhatimdoinggg 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It's not that broad. Generations typically span about 20 years; I think the average is actually 22 years.

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          [–]interiorlittlevenice 26ポイント27ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Generally people born from 1982-2000, just like Gen X was from 1964-1982, and the Baby Boomers from 1946-1964. Each lasted approximately 18 years.

          Kids born today are not Millenials. They are 'Generation Z'.

          [–]kcdwayne 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Because, fuck Y.

          [–]QuesoPantera 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Millenials were being called y years ago before the current name stuck

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            [–]socsa 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Generation "will probably all be killed by Zombies or something similarly catastrophic and related to Zombies."

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              [–]lord_allonymous 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              most common definition is starting at either 1980 or 1985. So, you probably squeak through.

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                [–]R3g 824ポイント825ポイント  (236子コメント)

                I love the conclusion: young people are less religious? must be because of selfishness, because, what else could it be?

                [–]ChemEBrew 535ポイント536ポイント  (207子コメント)

                The paper suggests many factors contributing to the lower religion. Individualism was just one.

                Also, individualism and selfishness are not one in the same.

                [–]MaggotBarfSandwich 1091ポイント1092ポイント  (196子コメント)

                Here's the primary reason and it's blatantly obvious: access to the internet.

                It's the first generation raised where collectively they haven't been brought up in bubbles and can actually hear, see, and read opinions and beliefs outside what their parents and immediate social circles want them to exposed to. Just awareness of the existence of people with differing beliefs goes a long way to having people critically question their own beliefs, not to mention knowing why they believe those things.

                This is obvious. Maybe there's other factors at work but "individualism" as a main idea (as proposed in the paper) is biased and absurd, and on some level insulting even if it plays a role. For the authors not to even mention the Internet as a possibility shows they are dumber than I am.

                [–]gmac3001 382ポイント383ポイント  (89子コメント)

                Once I realized that there are people on the other side of the globe that believe just as much as I did that they are correct in their religious believe, I lost faith.

                Whenever I asked how we knew we were right and other religions were wrong I never got a real answer because there isn't one.

                [–]RagingNerdaholic 29ポイント30ポイント  (3子コメント)

                When I asked that question, my mother kept repeating, "you gotta go with what you know," as if a rhyming chant was somehow conclusive evidence.

                [–]Lampmonster1 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I grew up in an isolate area, attended a religious school, everyone I knew was Christian of some kind. So, I just kind of figured believing was the default. I remember the first time I heard someone say they didn't believe in god. It was an older student, and I half think he said it just to cause trouble, which it did. He was thrown out of class. I remember thinking, why would someone even say that? Well, I was a reader, so as I read more and more I realized that not everyone did believe. This led me to ask myself if I believed. Oddly enough, I kind of realized that I never had, I'd just kind of gone along. I thought it all over, and still do from time to time, and realized nobody had ever given me a solid argument for why I should accept this premise of god. Still have never heard one. So, I have to agree that in many cases it is likely simple knowledge of alternatives and awareness that one's own belief system is not pervasive or natural, at least in my own case.

                [–]no_YOURE_sexy 112ポイント113ポイント  (40子コメント)

                Theyd probably answer "I have faith that I'm right". Not much you can say to that.

                [–]gerbaire 76ポイント77ポイント  (29子コメント)

                "I have faith because I have faith" is quite the logical fallacy. But each to their own.

                [–]dubski35 53ポイント54ポイント  (18子コメント)

                Correct me if I'm wrong, but using faith to believe something exists isn't logical to begin with.

                [–]PrayForMojo_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

                Yes, however my faith in the constant of the law of gravity is logically proven. I don't need it repeatedly proven to me because I have faith in the scientific establishment. While this obviously has a different implication than religious faith, it is faith nonetheless.

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                  [–]c4sanmiguel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  That's only a satisfying answer if if you still have faith, though. To someone having a crisis of faith, it's a pretty transparent excuse and doesn't do much to address your insecurity.

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                      [–]grumbledum 24ポイント25ポイント  (11子コメント)

                      I realized, after talking to people of all different faiths, that we all are certain that our beliefs are the correct beliefs. And, each and every person who is devout in their faith raises points that just cannot be disputed or proven wrong. So, while I still very much believe in a creator, that is about it. I don't think what spiritual path you take matters. I guess I'm a deist in that regard.

                      [–]Puddl3glum 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      That's the trick, isn't it? Religion and the supernatural are, by definition, outside the realm of knowing and thus untestable and unfalsifiable. You can believe pretty much whatever you want, but it's unprovable.

                      [–]Ftpini 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      The burden of proof lay with the person claiming the existence of something beyond reality, not with the person hearing that claim.

                      [–]tughdffvdlfhegl 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Welcome on the path towards Atheism. Most of us started in a similar spot and eventually arrived at Agnostic Atheism where we have no evidence, so we don't presuppose that there is any sort of god, and generally just ignore the whole thing.

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                        [–]RoadtoboulderMS | Software Engineering 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        This was it for me. I still chuckle when I hear people state how glad they are to have been born where they were because they believe in the true god.

                        [–]tughdffvdlfhegl 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        You're all going to be wishing you were Greeks from 700BC when Zeus starts ripping lightning bolts at the non-believers.

                        [–]redbadge101 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        It's not so much that others think their religion is correct. It's the fact that they have enough faith to believe their religion was the correct one. It's either one religion is right or none of them are right. The tricky part is finding the correct one to believe in.

                        [–]catjuggler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        My favorite is "because God loves YOU and wouldn't have matched YOU with the wrong religion."

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                          [–]DownvoteMeansAgree 126ポイント127ポイント  (22子コメント)

                          I think a large reason is, millenials aren't taken to church in the first place. Gen Xers were still taken to church in large numbers as kids. Many stopped going to church as adults, and hence didn't take their kids, who weren't exposed to religion by default.

                          [–]yaypal 27ポイント28ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          Agreed, I think only one or two of my friends out of many ever went to church, and it wasn't a regular attendance. It was sort of a requirement from their parents but even then the adults were sort of... there because they were used to going from their parents. It's a cycle that's slowly being broken down.

                          [–]Kazuke86 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          Good. I think religion can be a beautiful thing. But not when it's solely sustained by habit and guilt. It has to come from within.

                          [–]yaypal 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          That's how I decided to label myself agnostic, if that's considered a religion at all. Either way, I'm glad it came from self-reflection and not from anybody else telling me what to believe.

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                            [–]Level3Kobold 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            I was taken to church regularly by my grandparents, but I still stopped believing when I was 12 or so.

                            [–]chernobog13 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Same here. Around the time I was 11 or 12 I started questioning, and no one could give me answers other than "you need to have faith". I don't want to have blind faith, I want to figure out why things are the way they are.

                            [–]FortuitousAdroit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I don't want to have blind faith, I want to figure out why things are the way they are

                            You're on the right track: /r/science

                            Also: /r/atheism ; /r/DebateReligion ; /r/history

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                              [–]I8thegreenbean 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              This is the case for my children, ages 18 and 11. I grew up going to church 2-3 times a week. My children have never been to church.

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                                [–]mccoyn 53ポイント54ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                awareness of the existence of people with differing beliefs

                                I think it is even less profound than that. The internet is the new social network, religion was the old social network. Church used to be the social experience of the town. If you give up religion, you become a pariah with diminishing numbers of friends. It was worth it to play along even if you weren't convinced. Now, you can go online and find people with similar interests. You can keep in touch with old friends from high school. You can play games with people who have moved a thousand miles away. Fitting into the majority opinion of the local population just isn't as important as it once was.

                                [–]ca178858 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                I remember an NPR segment from more than a decade ago- where they attempted to identify and interview the most active church goers. Active in the sense of: organization of events, volunteering, etc.

                                In private they pretty much all said that they weren't that sure about their faith, but that they 'were there for the community'.

                                I took it with a grain of salt (along with all stories/documentaries that are out to prove a point), but it fits with what I've seen over the years too.

                                [–]serpentinepad 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                I kept going for a few years even though I was an atheist because I was a business owner in a small town.

                                [–]FortuitousAdroit 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I kept going for a few years even though I was an atheist because I was a business owner in a small town

                                And this is precisely the type of reason why religion has persisted in 'small town America' whilst simultaneously dying off in larger cities.

                                [–]vsTerminus 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                My coworker's sister is a volunteer youth group leader for a local church.

                                From what I'm told she's not particularly religious, but she enjoys working with the kids and the community so she keeps doing it.

                                [–]zootam 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                While good, that's part of the problem. People and organizations should be doing these things outside of religious affiliation.

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                                    [–]TheRiverStyx 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    This is really the answer. Global access to information and ideas that are not conducive to their continued beliefs in the things their parents take for granted and never questioned. In seconds you can find very well written and thought-inducing articles on any subject imaginable. The truth is that the freely available information on the internet has inculcated the concept into the minds of previously religious families that religion is a mythology just like the stories you read about Zeus and Thor.

                                    However, this will have a drawback as religious fundamentalists get more savvy to the use of these technologies they will have a more and more adversarial attitude toward any expression of these concepts and will create virtual walled fortresses of their religion online. We're already seeing it today where you can't even post a contrary opinion or question the concepts before you're banned or it is outright removed.

                                    [–]ChemEBrew 24ポイント25ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                    The idea that the Internet is a contributing factor is a great hypothesis. However these researchers interviewed subjects on questions that indicated a stronger sense of individualism for atheists. A good follow up study would be to interview individuals on how they became atheist. These researchers aren't dumb. This is just how science is done. The suggested reasons were actually tested and showed positive correlation. And I don't see why individualism is bad.

                                    [–]XgenDLC 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    And saying that more individualism means more atheism doesn't make any sense to me because (correct me if I'm wrong) Japan has a culture of collectivism and yes they might have many 'spiritual' traditions, but most people there are atheists. Or does this individualism theory only apply to the US?

                                    [–]Blubbey 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    In my experience at least it wasn't even that. With the people I knew when growing up, it was really "well why should I believe it?" from what I can tell. Didn't talk about it at all between ourselves, had the very occasional local church guy talk about stuff in assemblies (maybe twice a year) but other than that, nothing.

                                    [–]THATS_WACC 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I think this is absolutely the reason. I've always thought of the internet as being extremely similar to the printing press in the way that it democratized information, and ultimately lead to/will lead to a more intelligent world... and cat pictures.

                                    [–]guer_j 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Absutletly this. If anything, this younger generation is by far less individualistic than my generation, the 80s gen. For example, as a software engineer, it's amazing the increase amount of selfish cooperation you find in this industry lately. There are tons of free programming libraries around; back in my time everyone was just trying to make a buck out of everything.

                                    [–]vsTerminus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    selfish cooperation

                                    Did you mean selfless cooperation?

                                    [–]SonnyMalone 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Ding ding ding, we have a winner. It's the information age.

                                    [–]drakino 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    It's the first generation raised where collectively they haven't been brought up in bubbles and can actually hear, see, and read opinions and beliefs outside what their parents and immediate social circles want them to exposed to.

                                    While the internet has helped the above happen easier, it wasn't the start of this. A kid having their own TV in their room, and watching late night shows helped. A phone call across the country to a friend who moved away helped. The expansion of channels on TV via cable helped. A kid with access to the library helped.

                                    Access to knowledge and different perspectives broaden one's mind, and can push one away from religion. The internet has been a very effective way of sharing knowledge and view points, but it wasn't the first.

                                    [–]OhNoRhino 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    That and the church hasn't had the best track record as of late

                                    [–]rainbow_llama_dragon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    The Internet has helped me in so many ways. I'm gay, and I can't imagine what my life would be like right now if I couldn't do all the research and talk to all the people that I did. It has also educated a lot of straight people and promoted positive opinions and support that would not have been possible without social media and endless amounts of information. It's an exciting time to be alive!

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                                      [–]suckadack 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      I don't like to be this guy. It's "one and the same".

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                                        [–]KaliYugaz 82ポイント83ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        I think you're misinterpreting it. Individualism makes people turn inwards, and distrust social institutions, community rituals, and received wisdom. Individualism doesn't necessarily mean selfishness.

                                        [–]PM_ME_UR_TITHES 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Individualism's best synonym would be self-assuredness, which makes it a little easier to see why this is happening.

                                        Need to know how the world came to be? Choose the explanation that makes the most sense to you, instead of just folllowing the one your parents or other authority figures hold. Need a community or team? Find the one that offers the specific environment and benefits that you need, not just the typical or "normal" one for your social situation. It's really no wonder that a majority of people consider the best choice for them to be a non-church environment.

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                                          [–]dopadelic 36ポイント37ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          I hate seeing individualism being related to selfishness. Individualism is about being comfortable with creating your own identity that best fits your own perceptions and experiences of this world, and respecting other's identities because you recognize others may have differences in their own perceptions of the world.

                                          In this sense, individualism is less compatible with religion since with religion, you are required to form a large part of your identity based on the supreme authority of an ancient text.

                                          [–]WillWorkForLTC 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          But if you don't conform to someone else's standards then you're selfish scum!

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                                            [–]SelfReconstruct 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            It's funny that we are called selfish after what the baby boomers have done/still doing to this country.

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                                              [–]Kiss-my-neck 473ポイント474ポイント  (65子コメント)

                                              I think internet has something to do with this -along with many other factors. I raised in neighborhood with quite religious people and i always thought i was a freak to even question the presence of god. So i didn't. But then i started using the internet, really using and i met science. Than i met other people like me(a few pedos but mostly great pals). I started reading, lots and lots of reading. All these gave me enough perspective to think about subjects bigger than myself. If you have courage to question things "you are not allowed to", not always but most of the time rejecting any religion just happens. If i was left alone, i would most likely marry at age 17 and forget that my brain even existed. But now i get to be a scientist hopefully. Thanks to my supportive family, my luck and also internet.

                                              [–]thai_tong 196ポイント197ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                              Social groups keep people in a religion, if everyone you know is Christian then it is hard to go against the curve, only a brave few break away from the crowd. When your friends are irreligious it is easy to associate yourself with that and step away from religion.

                                              With the Internet people can come from communities where everyone is religious but still become fiends with people on the other side of the world who are not religious.

                                              [–]Thefriendlyfaceplant 87ポイント88ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                              Social bubbles are so incredibly deceptive. Yesterday I received a parcel that was wrapped in a European-African newspaper, target audience: African Immigrants.

                                              Like an entirely new reality opened up. These people exist, they have their own interests and narrative, they have their own concerns and worries, they have their own unique advertisers promoting their own unique products to them, there's dissidence between columnists and it goes on and on.

                                              Before I stumbled on that newspaper they were a cardboard cutout to me.

                                              [–]upvotesarecoming 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              From a European war refugee in America and who studied abroad in the southern region of Africa, thank you! It's very hard to give this perspective to someone...they have to see it themself!

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                                                [–]capnjack78 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                Social groups keep people in a religion, if everyone you know is Christian then it is hard to go against the curve, only a brave few break away from the crowd.

                                                To be honest, I believe this has the same effect now on people who believe in God but are surrounded by people who do not. I know kids who dare not admit their families go to church for fear of being ostracized.

                                                [–]gtfomylawnplease 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                Brave? In my neighborhood they would burn my house down. Seriously, the most "Popular" people here are the type who brag about their church group. I wouldn't tell a single one of them I'm an Atheist for any amount of money. Well, I take that back. Enough money to move I probably would. I am almost tempted to go to church here just so I have people to hang out with.

                                                [–]Viddion 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Where do you live? Or if that's too personal then what religion? Mormons is my guess

                                                [–]mrglass8 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Social groups can also help educate people religiously. When all your friends are of a particular religion, you can work together to better learn and understand it.

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                                                  [–]waveswan 37ポイント38ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  I suspect that quite a lot of it is also has less to do with analysis and reasoning, and more to do with clashes in ideology between religious institutions and other parts of society. Whether it is opposition to the teaching of evolution, restrictions on abortion access, homophobia or backwards attitudes to sexual education, religion is taking quite a beating in public debates. It is of course not accurate to claim that the people opposing these things are all religious, or that all religious people do, but it can nevertheless swing the opinion of somebody who is undecided about religious ideas.

                                                  Even highly educated and intelligent individuals are remarkably good at coming up with arguments to favour the ideas they want to believe in, so it is ever as much a matter of whether people see religion as good or bad, as whether they think it accurate or incorrect.

                                                  [–]Face_Roll 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  I tend to agree.

                                                  I still think that the best reasoning and arguments are on the side of atheism, but this isn't actually what's turning people away. Religion now just looks hokey and backwards, and more often than not manifests in clearly dis-tasteful ways.

                                                  To summarize:

                                                  "What is now decisive against Christianity is our taste, no longer our reasons"

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                                                      [–]JenkinsEar147 110ポイント111ポイント  (69子コメント)

                                                      I don't think this is true at all in the 2nd or 3rd world.

                                                      Perhaps it's just safer for more people to 'out' themselves as non-religious then it I has ever been.

                                                      Christianity is booming in China (especially Protestant denominations) and Islam is also extremely popular in the 2nd world where population growth rates are high.

                                                      [–]godarni 24ポイント25ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      Christianity is booming in China (especially Protestant denominations)

                                                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_China#Mainland_China

                                                      I wouldn't call a tenth of a percentage increase over 10 years to be "booming", although due to the massive population, anything can be made to sound significant in China.

                                                      [–]Suibian_ni 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      I met a Chinese guy doing a PhD on the topic. He observed it's mainly among the old and poor in remote areas; they've been left behind by the economic and ideological sea change, and see it as a good way to re-knit their communities. Korean missionaries are working hard to evangelise in these areas, but I didn't see much sign that younger Chinese are into it.

                                                      [–]IWantAnAffliction 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Isn't China one of the most atheist and anti-religion countries in the world, on top of this?

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                                                        [–]Suburbanturnip 67ポイント68ポイント  (30子コメント)

                                                        The USSR has fallen... who do you think you are referring to as the second world?

                                                        [–]CwrwCymru 90ポイント91ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                        Second world still refers to the former communist - socialist states. e.g. Russia, eastern Europe, China and places like Kazakhstan.

                                                        [–]Calculusbitch 49ポイント50ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                        I don't think people understand how bad the living situation is in a lot of the former USSR and other eastern european countries. While it is obviously not on the same level of the worst of African versus Western Europe it is really really bad in some parts.

                                                        [–]Nachteule 24ポイント25ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                        Gross domestic product (GDP) per capita of Kazakhstan is world rank 49 ($24,214). For comparison, Turkey is 61, Mexico 67, France 25, United States 10 and Qatar 1 ($136,727).

                                                        So if Mexico is 2nd world, then eastern Europe is second world.

                                                        Image of Kazakhstans capital city

                                                        Supermarket in Kazakhstan

                                                        [–]niuguy 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I always thought Kazakhstan had terrible income distribution. As in, the state controlled oil companies generated tons of wealth but most people never saw it.

                                                        [–]ORD_to_SFO 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Huh...I've never actually seen any pictures of Kazakhstan, and that blew my mind. The supermarket picture was taken in 2009, they might have flying cars by now for all I know. Very interesting!

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                                                          [–]Zuhorer 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                          I think claims like this are extremely overstated. There is still running water, people still have access to good food and decent enough jobs. Sure, some places are worse off than others, but I think people have this notion of a post-apocalyptic world where people are scavengers, which is simply untrue.

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                                                            [–]BodyPhysics 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            "[Second world] is still used to describe countries that are in between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently, the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition."

                                                            [–]BackRoadMotorcycles 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            s still used to describe countries that are in between poverty and prosperity, many of which are now capitalist states. Subsequently, the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition."

                                                            Oh wikipedia...

                                                            You should read the actual source that blurb cites. It does not justify the opinion of the wikipedia article.

                                                            ... First, Second, and Third world reflects value judgement, in which first means "best" and third means "worst," and it is therefore best avoided.

                                                            - Sociology by Anthony Giddens

                                                            [–]singularity_cometh 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            I agree. The metrics used to determined states' rankings are now falling on a "spectrum of development" with indicators and indices as varied as the definition of development itself. Is a state Developed? Developing? Under-developed? Expected to develop? These are more sophisticated ways of discussing and classifying states, and have been used in academia for years.

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                                                              [–]RIPelliott 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                              Reporting in from Algeria. Religion, even with consistent internet access, is still dominant here for mostly all of us. I noticed a few less pious Muslims than in previous generations (mostly in the capital city; still largely untouched in the smaller villages) but everyone is still a steadfast believer in Allah. Allahi barak!

                                                              [–]Chessmasterrex 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              Algeria isn't really that far up there in regards to internet penetration. Here's a list showing it's 155th from last out of 211 nations.

                                                              It's roughly 15% of households compared to 85% in the USA.

                                                              I think internet access probably does contribute to lack of religiosity. Just look at the whole of the very Atheist scandinavian nations being above 90%.

                                                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users

                                                              [–]Yuli-Ban 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              It's still dominant in the US as well. Being irreligious isn't the same as being an atheist or agnostic.

                                                              I was irreligious for years before going agnostic. It just means you accept a Creator (whether that be God or a Simulator) but it doesn't affect your private or public life. Like a Deist.

                                                              [–]phacey 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              Developed and developing are the terms we use these days.

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                                                                [–]wtfmateseriously 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                I'm not sure what I am. While listening to NPR yesterday in a period of 5 mins they generalized me into 3 generations.

                                                                [–]theanatomyofpainting 48ポイント49ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                Wasn't there just an article on the front page several weeks ago that graphed how different religions would grow over time? Now I feel like Reddit is falling into the mainstream media pitfalls of whatever gets the most likes, it's our fault really.

                                                                Edit: grammar

                                                                [–]BigClifty 39ポイント40ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Are you talking about the recent Pew Study?

                                                                It claimed (based on its data) that (in America), the number of people who believe/follow certain religious sects will continue to increase, but the percentage of people who follow follow/believe certain religious sects will continue to fall. So the nation as a whole will continue to be increasingly less religious, even if sects can claim "oh but the number of people in our sect has risen!"

                                                                It would be like me claiming that out of the 1000 people in my town, 100 of them thought red was the best color. Then several years later I found that 110 people thought red was the best color, but the town now consisted of 2000 people. The number of people who liked red may be up from the last time we counted, but they are down percentage wise.

                                                                [–]greenhalagog 73ポイント74ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Well, with population growing exponentially, it's possible for a lower proportion of people to be religious while the number of people in each religion is still growing

                                                                [–]Codemancer 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                There also have been other articles that backed this one. If I remember right, they focused on American religion specifically Christianity. It also stated the younger generation chooses not to accept religion. I think religion can grow while younger people choose not to accept it.

                                                                [–]two_in_the_bush 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                That Pew report was showing worldwide growth.

                                                                This one studies the U.S. in particular.

                                                                [–]HoDoSasude 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                No it doesn't say anything about a worldwide trend. Pew researched the US. Here's the actual Pew study: America’s Changing Religious Landscape and a brief description:

                                                                The Christian share of the U.S. population is declining, while the number of U.S. adults who do not identify with any organized religion is growing, according to an extensive new survey by the Pew Research Center. Moreover, these changes are taking place across the religious landscape, affecting all regions of the country and many demographic groups. While the drop in Christian affiliation is particularly pronounced among young adults, it is occurring among Americans of all ages. The same trends are seen among whites, blacks and Latinos; among both college graduates and adults with only a high school education; and among women as well as men.

                                                                [–]abeardancing 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Now I feel like Reddit is falling into the mainstream media pitfalls

                                                                reddit is a website. to whom are you referring to?

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                                                                  [–]Blubbey 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                  Someone made a comment but it seems to be deleted.

                                                                  There's a whole inner life available to people through reflection and meditation on the meaning of the universe

                                                                  You don't have to be spiritual to do these things.

                                                                  [–]PCCP82 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                  But that is the textbook definition of spiritual if I'm not mistaken.

                                                                  [–]Blubbey 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                  Is it? I thought that would be more "soul" or "spirit" type things. I was thinking they would be more philosophical rather than spiritual.

                                                                  [–]Subbmerged 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                  philosophy and spirituality oftentimes go hand in hand. Just remember that being spiritual doesn't necessarily mean being religious.

                                                                  [–]Internets111 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  Or believing in the supernatural at all.

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                                                                      [–]ze_ben 29ポイント30ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                      Still, the number of millennials I meet who believe gluten is the devil, aspartame and GMO crops cause cancer, American Spirit cigarettes are healthier, etc., etc., is astoundingly high. Religion may be on the decline, but magical thinking and faith-based life choices are here to stay.

                                                                      [–]I_love_it_16 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      I don't think that's considered magical thinking... that's called being really misinformed.

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                                                                        [–]shamrockjew 15ポイント16ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                        I teach in a Baltimore City High School and I can tell you that the majority of my teenagers are incredibly religious. Might just be a regional thing, but belief in Christ is strong in Baltimore's black community - even the younger generations who are avid internet users and digesters of social media.

                                                                        [–]berryberrygood 31ポイント32ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        Belief tends to be higher among the poorer, because it helps them cope/rationalize their lot in life. I'm sure there are many other factors, but a lot of scientific papers have shown this correlation.

                                                                        [–]upvotesarecoming 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        It's really sad how inner city (usually minorities) are even behind on the "religion is fazing away" progression. They can't catch a break.

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                                                                          [–]Porkins67 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          Definitely regional. I grew up in California and now live in the Dallas, TX region. The differences between the two in terms of religion are night and day.

                                                                          For myself, I'm a Gen Xer that rejected religion early on and haven't brought up my kids with it. It's a little hard to fit in here since religion is so prevalent, but that's probably more about me being an introvert than non-religious.

                                                                          [–]FortuitousAdroit 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          Religion in America is definitely, unquestionably regional.

                                                                          Your other observations are in line with the study abstract:

                                                                          The declines are larger among girls, Whites, lower-SES individuals, and in the Northeastern U.S., very small among Blacks, and non-existent among political conservatives. Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support.

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                                                                            [–]Kialae 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            I might have been more religious if the world isn't constantly demanding my labor. If I have to work six days a week, and overtime on those days, I'm giving none of the scant free time I have to God if this is the world he's made for me to exist in.

                                                                            [–]articulationize 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                            Is this science?

                                                                            [–]95regenrator 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                            Not true.. there is a whole cult behind CLG.

                                                                            [–]cqm 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                            all it takes is for one economic depression or a prolonged period of uncertainty before a religious revival comes back with a vengeance

                                                                            [–]Xavs42 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            We already had the worst economic depression since the great depression, and most of us view the time we grew up in as crazy uncertain: 2 wars that as kids we were told were justified but now know we were lied to about, being repeatedly told that these years are our last chance to avert massive climate change but being too young to have the power to do anything about it.

                                                                            Something makes me doubt your reasoning.

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                                                                              [–]Brodehouse 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                              All the religious tendencies remain, redirected to non-supernatural concerns.

                                                                              [–]copycat 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              Mother nature is a pretty popular replacement. Now give up your chemicals and gmo crops in favor of ancient farming practices.

                                                                              [–]interiorlittlevenice 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              Exactly. People will always divide themselves into tribes and belief systems. The fact that they no longer attend the church club doesn't mean the end of that.

                                                                              [–]lisabauer58 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              I would have to agree but I see an overwhelming belief in the supernatural in our youth. Younger generates like entertaining ideas about Aliens, ghosts, evil engery and the like. They replaced theology for other superstition and gave it all a new name. They call it the paranormal.

                                                                              [–]bigbuddysam 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                              I raised all 5 of my children without religion.Instead I taught them that they are the only ones responsible for what happens in their life.I thought them to think before they react.

                                                                              [–]PaganButterChurner 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              "Religious affiliation is lower in years with more income inequality, higher median family income, higher materialism, more positive self-views, and lower social support"

                                                                              I'd like to think that people are more informed now to make a decision. People as a whole are more educated about these things, and have information readily available. It's not so easy for Government/Religion to influence people as they once were.

                                                                              we've come a long way, I believe these are positive trends. And mind you, I am a Christian.

                                                                              [–]YallAreElliotRodger 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                              It's not so easy for Government/Religion to influence people as they once were.

                                                                              It's actually far easier for government to influence people than it was a hundred, two hundred years ago. You see hardly any true radicals in the US anymore. Government propaganda has done a pretty amazing job.

                                                                              [–]MyOldMansADustman 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              I go to church every Sunday, pray everyday etc, but I think when I do have kids I'd just tell them to look up on different religions and the concept of atheism and let them decide. I mean I'll still bring them to church and whatnot till they're teenagers, but I won't be too worked up if they didn't decide to remain as Christians

                                                                              [–]fetus_with_moss_hair 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                              TL;DR: Society nowdays is too individualistic and knowledge-based to try to believe in religions, that are community based and faith-based. The lack of flexibility (too traditionalist) and bad inide-politics of religions are tainting the image of all religions, and internet is helping to spread that word.

                                                                              My idea is that religion is dying because technology and politics. Technology is very different of religion. Religion is faith based, you need to believe that some things are the way they are because god say so, not things like "thunders are god's fury" but things like "god blessed you with his love" and things like that. You can't prove that its true, you NEED to believe is true. Meanwhile technology is without any faith. You maybe don't know how some things work, but you know that if you study or investigate the machine itself you can understand (someday) how it works. Technology is completely faith-voided.

                                                                              Kids born in the +2000 are growing in the electronic boom, where they are required to learn about technology, about a mentallity of "you want to understand something? learn how it works and you will", something that religion is not. So the actual culture is more knowledge-based than faith-based.

                                                                              The other major thing is religion politics. You see religion figures doing silly or stupid things, like pederasty... or opposing things that you don't know why are bad... like same-gender marriage. You were brought up in a society that its trying to include same-sex relationships and then you see some religions that say that that is a sin... of course you think is stupid. Even if its not your prefered religion, it taints the image you have of ALL religions. You happen to don't know how religion 27 works? then you assume is vey similar to religion 26, wich you heard be against gay couples... so then you think that religion 27 is bad too.

                                                                              It doesn't help that many religions are too close-minded to cultural changes. Even the catholic church had Latin ceremonies until like 50 years ago. The globality of Internet doesn't help religion either.

                                                                              Nowdays the only real religious kids are religious because they were brought up in very religious families.

                                                                              Also, there needs to be noted that there are people that believe in god, but doesn't identificate with any church, because politics. Like, you believe that you have a soul, the heaven and all that, but don't like the system of the most famous religion that aligns with your beliefs. So, there is also a boom of people that don't stick with any "real" religion but have their own beliefs. And those beliefs aren't communitary. Doesn't have mass ceremonies, religious figures or any festivity. They believe in what they want.

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