155
156

The Alfredo Cream Conspiracy (self.Cooking)

kendradog が 投稿

Modern recipes have misstated what fettuccine Alfredo (or fettuccine all'Alfredo) is.

 

Every top recipe I checked on google includes cream (e.g. Ree Drummond, Erin Marie, Betty Crocker ).

 

Most of my cookbooks include cream, for example, Giuliano Hazan, The Classic Pasta Cookbook (1993, page 64).  

In fact, I really thought for a long time that fettuccine Alfredo should include cream.

 

My thinking was changed by two excellent cookbooks.

 

The first was an off-hand reference in Christian Teubner et al., The Pasta Bible (1994, p. 95): "cream has absolutely no place in this recipe, contrary to the belief still held by many cooks."

 

But a web search on this disclosed no further information, and even Teubner didn't actually include a recipe for fettuccine Alfredo.

 

But I was convinced completely by a long discussion in the wonderful history Cooking the Roman Way by David Downie (2002). That book has a long discussion of the fascinating history of fettuccine Alfredo: how Alfredo di Lelio I invented the dish in 1908 "to induce his wife Ines, who's recently given birth but has no appetite, to start eating again"; how the dish led to Lelio moving to bigger and better restaurants; how Alfredo served it to Americans fleeing Prohibition, including Hemingway, Sinclair Lewis (and Lewis's fictional Babbit), and Hollywood stars; how stars Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks gave Alfredo a golden fork and spoon to thank him for "his hospitality and exquisite pasta" which Alfredo used to serve the dish from then on; to various legal disputes and feuds. (Edit: recipe in comments).

 

So this is not a dish with an unknown history: it refers to a specific cook at a specific instant in time. And that dish does not use cream.

 

So why do Betty Crocker and thousands of other published and posted recipes change Alfredo's recipe to use cream? Nothing is wrong with changing a recipe, but why use Alfredo's name? Why would people like Giuliano Hazan modify the original recipe and promulgate the false recipe in his cookbooks?

全 117 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]exfratman 300ポイント301ポイント  (49子コメント)

...and the question remains un-answered; what is the recipe for fettuccine Alfredo without using cream?

[–]dragonslayer0069 44ポイント45ポイント  (24子コメント)

Yeah.. I'm interested. What are they using if no cream? I run a small Italian kitchen and I have modified my Alfredo to use ½&½ so it remains stable and fluid even when cold. And firms up upon reheating. But its still a cream based sauce.

[–]gubbinsmcgee 115ポイント116ポイント  (23子コメント)

It's supposed to be butter and parmesan, and a splash of the starchy water from cooking the pasta to help emulsify the fats and stabilise the mixture, seasoned with salt and sometimes pepper and nutmeg. Not really something that reheats well though I imagine.

You can't really make an "Alfredo sauce" in the same way you can't really make a "Carbonara sauce"; the sauce is made on the pasta.

[–]EatingSteak 45ポイント46ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you - OP posted an interesting story, but it really needed a "what is it then?" tl;dr

[–]dragonslayer0069 9ポイント10ポイント  (18子コメント)

I agree. But like I said, I run a kitchen. We need a simple sauce that can be heated quickly and served with a pasta as it gets sauteed.

[–]The_Bard 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Would a splash of pasta water with butter and cheese be just as easy as a prepped cream sauce?

[–]BobC813 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, the obvious answer is no. That would be 3 ingredients to add vs 1 with a sauce that's made ahead.

[–]dragonslayer0069 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

We also use it as a pizza sauce... So it kinda needs to be ready to roll... Its very good.

[–]ITRAINEDYOURMONKEY 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I imagine that could be the reason for so many recipes moving over to cream

[–]chickenfun1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also just a bit of nutmeg, and black pepper.

[–]chicklette -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is the recipe for pepe e caccio (-sp) minus the pepper.

[–]gubbinsmcgee 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cacio e Pepe traditionally doesn't use butter, it's just cheese, pepper and pasta.

[–]NstantKlassik 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

I've always been under the impression that actual Alfredo is just covering your noodles with a lot of parmesan and butter and tossing them until the noodles melt the cheese and butter into a sauce.

Or am I thinking something else?

[–]thejerg 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's so funny, I have always loved "fettucini alfredo" at restaurants, but one of my staple "easy" meals has been loading up a plate of spaghetti noodles with butter and parmesean since I was 17...

[–]Clony85 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love doing that, it's one of my greatest guilty pleasures. I call them "Angel pubes."

[–]shipmonite 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

I wisk some eggs in a bowl, add enormous parmesan to it, butter, salt and pepper, then toss them on the warm noodles.

[–]GailaMonster 34ポイント35ポイント  (6子コメント)

that is carbonara, not alfredo. still delicious.

[–]Pigonthewing12 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's missing the panchetta fat, but it's definitely closer to a Carbonara.

[–]jv0099 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't it supposed to be made with Pecorino? I typically use guanciale instead of pancetta as well.

[–]YourFairyGodmother 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Marcella Hazan said that either bacon or pancetta can be used. She said she didn't like the version with American style bacon as it "cloyed after a few bites." She went on to say that there's not much smoked stuff in Italy except for in the Alto-Adige which was once part of Austria. She went even further saying that if one must use American style bacon - as many cooks do in Rome where the dish originated - to blanch it first in boiling water.

I sometimes use bacon, unblanched, sometimes pancetta.

[–]TulsaOUfan 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

We grew up on an Alfredo-Carbonara fusion that my mom passed on to me.

I cook about 6 pieces of bacon until crispy in a large, deep skillet. Remove bacon and enough fat to leave skillet coated and "moist" then add cooked fettuccini. (What comes ahead will clog your arteries just by reading, but damn, is it good). I then throw on a stick of unsalted butter that's been sliced into 8ths. Turn heat off of pan NOW. Shower everything with Parmesan - I start with 1/2 or 2/3 cup - and pour in an equal amount of heavy cream. Add a good amount of cracked black pepper. Take tongs and toss until everything has melded into a sauce. Top with 2 lightly beaten egg yolks and re-toss. Taste and reseason. If sauce is too runny add more cheese. If sauce is too thick add more cream (or butter, but I've only had to do that once because I wiped the bacon fat out of the pan and while creamy tasting, it didn't have that butter/fat taste and feel). Top with crumbled reserved bacon.

This is great by itself or with a side salad, easy to make, and fairly cheap (as long as you keep things like bacon, real butter, and cream on hand). For fancier meals I'll grill some chicken breasts or even put the chicken in a pan to cook on the stove while I make the pasta if the weather is too bad for the grill (or I'm being lazy).

[–]Shahin_N 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You've just made my night. I can't do the pasta, but that sauce over some grilled chicken is just what I need.

[–]Gekko463 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bacon?

[–]Humphrind 23ポイント24ポイント  (5子コメント)

The original recipe died with the inventor. It has been replicated many times, but the stories I hear is that the actual recipe is lost.

That said, the relations live in his honor. There are many stories similar to this all across the cooking world. In upstate New York, a dairy farmer tried to replicate a cheese he had in France. Neufchatel (I might not have spelled that correctly). And after he figured out a good recipe, he named it Philadelphia Cream Cheese because Philly was kinda a food mecca in the US at that time. Then his recipe was bought by kraft and now you can go to the store and buy 1/3 less fat (than cream cheese) Philadelphia cream cheese, kraft says it's actually Neufchatel. But if you compare Philly 3rd less fat with actual Neufchatel, you would know they are nothing alike.

That's just one of a million examples of a name being about a staple rather than an actual representation. Heck, it can get as simple as when I ask for a kleenex and someone hands me a Puffs brand facial tissue. Anything white and creamy on pasta has become alfredo. It might not be accurate technically, but that's the new definition.

[–]CptBigglesworth 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

That dairy farmer came up with a new name though. And if you asked for a kleenex and I gave you a whole roll of toilet paper, that'd be fine. But it's not a kleenex.

[–]yourock_rock 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That dairy farmer did not change the name. Look at the 1/3 fat cream cheese and it still says Neufchâtel. And you can still buy original/real Neufchâtel in France or A fancy cheese store.

[–]CptBigglesworth 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Mmm not in the UK at least. Do the Philadelphia containers really say Neufchâtel in the US? Or, say, the Walmart brand one?

[–]sabin357 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

None that I've noticed.

[–]contraryexample -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kleenex is a brand name for a product that doesn't vary like food recipes. If I gave you a pufts when you asked for a kleenex, you might not know the difference.

[–]kendradog[S] 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

The recipe in Downie's excellent history/cookbook Cooking the Roman Way , "Fettucine Alfredo al Triplo Burro" notes "The trick to making the recipe work, as Alfredo Di Lelio III showed me, is to use top-quality ingredients and to follow the steps laid down by his grandfather, Alfred Di Lelio I. Timing and body language are essential. There's a lot of entertainment value in seeing Alfredo and his longtime waiters scooping, turning and flipping fettuccine at ... the landmark building the restaurant has occupied since 1948...Later, Alfredo and his headwaiter served us, handing my wife the same solid gold spoon and fork my grandparents and mother had eaten with all those years ago..."

Ingredients:

  • Kosher salt or coarse sea salt

  • 1.5 lbs fresh fettuccine (I think he recommends later semolina flour)

  • 1 cup softened unsalted butter

  • 8 ounces freshly grated tender, young Parmigiano-Reggiano (about 1.5 cups)

 

Instructions:

  • Bring 5 quarts or more of water to boil in large pot

  • Bring 2 to 3 quarts water to just under a boil in a wide, shallow pan. Immerse a large serving platter in the water to heat it.

  • Add salt to the boiling water int he large pot, add fettuccine

  • With mitts remove serving platter from pan, dry, and place on cutting board. Slice butter into pats and put them on platter to melt

  • Reserve about 2-3 tablespoons pasta water in a small bowl

  • Drain pasta while very al dente and transfer, "still dripping" to the platter with the melted butter.

  • Sprinkle grated cheese on top and pour reserved pasta water over

  • At table, "toss, flip, stir, and sweep the fettuccine with a large fork and spoon [not necessarily golden] for up to two minutes to fully amalgamate the ingredients.

[–]dragonslayer0069 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This much is true... You gotta use the best Parmesan cheese you can get!

[–]TheLegionBroken 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've always been rather fond of this recipe.

[–]TheBurningBeard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Butter and parm.

[–]apotheotical 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I used 2% to make Alfredo just yesterday and it was still delicious.

[–]prezuiwf 56ポイント57ポイント  (25子コメント)

Just because it was invented without cream doesn't mean alfredo with cream is "not alfredo." That's like saying the only real pizza is a plain cheese pizza because that one came first. There are lots of ways to make an alfredo and I, personally, believe my cream-based recipe is one of the best I've tried. If you want to deprive yourself of cream-based alfredo sauces based on semantics, go right ahead, but when done well it's far superior to a non-cream version in my opinion.

[–]shalala1234 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

Great point. Would you mind providing the recipe please?

[–]prezuiwf 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure, it's pretty simple but a bit labor intensive:

1/3 cup butter

1 pint heavy cream

1.5 cups shredded parmesan cheese

1 lb. fresh fettuccine

1 egg yolk

Pinch of nutmeg

Salt & pepper to taste

Melt butter in saucepan over medium heat and pour in heavy cream while still cold or lukewarm. Add egg yolk and nutmeg and quickly whisk the egg into the sauce. Whisk continuously as the sauce heats to prevent separation; should take 20-30 minutes to thicken. As it thickens, the whisking will create air bubbles and give the sauce some body.

While you're making the sauce, boil your well-salted water and add the fresh pasta when the sauce is thick enough, usually when you can start to see the bottom of the pan as you whisk. Turn off the heat on the sauce or lower it to a simmer. Once the pasta is finished, drain it and then immediately add the still-hot pasta to the sauce, in the saucepan, and toss it. Then take your shredded parmesan and dump it onto the pasta, and toss thoroughly; the cheese should half-melt and congeal around the pasta and cause the sauce to stick to it. Liberally add salt and pepper and serve.

[–]newtothelyte 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Interesting. Do you serve with chicken? Garlic bread?

[–]prezuiwf 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I usually just serve it as-is but I've added chicken and broccoli on rare occasions. I actually prefer to have a chicken breast as a "side" rather than putting it in the pasta but everyone does their own thing. Honestly it comes out so rich that just the pasta winds up being a heavy meal.

[–]theworldbystorm 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think you're right, but can I ask- how does a cream based alfredo sauce differ from a bechamel?

[–]essari 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

bechamel

Not roux based.

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]epeeista 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No no no! The defining features of a bechamel are that it is milk-based and thickened with a roux.

    [–]essari 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A bechamel with cheese is a mornay sauce.

    [–]anonymous_being 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Agreed.

    [–]Flaakinator 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    What would you call carbonara with cream then?

    [–]TulsaOUfan -3ポイント-2ポイント  (12子コメント)

    While I agree with your reasoning, it's still wrong. I feel, in cooking today, people bastardize dishes, fundamentally changing them, and still falling them the original.

    Calling a delicious dish if diced, roasted shrimp topped with avocado, lime juice, tequila, pico, and a creamy chipotle drizzle a ceviche is not correct. It may resemble ceviche, but it dies not meet the fundamental definition of ceviche because it has shrimp that's cooked in a way other than acidification, and a cream based sauce.

    Or calling an El Camino a truck. It's not a truck. It's a car with a truck bed. It doesn't have the guts of a truck. It resembles, kind of, a truck. But calling it a truck is not correct.

    Now, it's been long enough that Alfredo is now considered, in America at least, a cream and Parmesan based sauce. Over time, society's definition of a dish changes - and that's fine. But people should still call recipes by their actual names until those definitions evolve and not call things similar to something, that something.

    [–]Pigonthewing12 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm in agreement with you. Yes, definitions can change over time, and that's fine. But when people use the wrong name for a dish, in the end it creates false expectations.

    My sister always calls orzo rice. It's not rice. It's pasta. She held a dinner party and told everyone she was making a rice dish. But it was an orzo dish. No one looked closely at the dish and they were all surprised when they bit into pasta instead of rice.

    It could also have an effect if someone has an allergy. The name implies a dish contains certain ingredients and is cooked a certain way. If you use the wrong terminology, you could get someone sick.

    As far as Alfredo goes, I think it's an example of something that has evolved. At least in the US. I have never seen a restaurant in the US that serves Alfredo without cream.

    [–]TulsaOUfan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Good points. Well said.

    [–]marcusnuccio 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Definitions evolve because people change them. It ain't a Pokemon levelling up, it doesn't just happen.

    [–]CptBigglesworth 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't understand how inventing new recipes is so easy, but inventing new names is so hard.

    [–]keypusher 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    How do you think the definitions evolve? It happens when people start calling things that are similar to something, that something. Words have no absolute meaning, it's all cultural. Those meaning change over time. People have complained about the erosion of their particular precious language for the last thousand years, yet languages continue to evolve.

    [–]toomuchkalesalad 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

    SAVEUR ran an article a long time ago. Interesting read, and the comments on the recipe portion is pretty funny because nobody seems to be able to do it properly.

    [–]ronaldvr 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And they have a recipe! The link in the article is dead, but a search engin found the correct link: http://www.saveur.com/article/Recipes/The-Original-Fettuccine-Alfredo

    Ingredients

    • 1 lb. dried fettuccine
    • 1⁄2 lb. unsalted butter (2 sticks)
    • 1⁄2 lb. finely grated parmesan (about 3 1⁄4 cup)

    Instructions

    1. Bring a 6-qt. pot of salted water to a boil. Add fettuccine and cook, stirring occasionally, until pasta is al dente, about 8 minutes.
    2. Meanwhile, cut butter into thin pats and transfer to a large, warmed platter. Drain pasta, reserving 3⁄4 cup pasta water, and place the pasta over the butter on the platter.
    3. Sprinkle grated parmesan over the pasta and drizzle with 1⁄4 cup of the reserved pasta water.
    4. Using a large spoon and fork, gently toss the pasta with the butter and cheese, lifting and swirling the noodles and adding more pasta water as necessary. (The pasta water will help create a smooth sauce.) Work in any melted butter and cheese that pools around the edges of the platter. Continue to mix the pasta until the cheese and butter have fully melted and the noodles are coated, about 3 minutes. (For a quicker preparation, bring the reserved 3⁄4 cup pasta water and the butter to a boil in a 12" skillet; then add the pasta, sprinkle with the cheese, and toss with tongs over medium-low heat until the pasta is creamy and coated, about 2 minutes.)
    5. Serve the fettuccine immediately on warmed plates.

    [–]bc2zb 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This should be much higher

    [–]JorusC 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ...because it tastes better that way?

    [–]rasellers0 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Honestly, your second source doesn't mention anything about cream, and I question the validity of the first. It makes a lot of sense for cream to be added; it functions as a stabilizer and a thickener. It may not have been in the original recipe, but fettuccine Alfredo would hardly be the only recipe that's deviated and progressed from it's original incarnation.

    [–]noitsapen 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Cars were invented without power steering, power brakes, air conditioning, windows, etc.... Does this mean we are better off without these things?

    [–]CptBigglesworth 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    They were invented without wings too.

    [–]breaddict 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If this is a source of irritation, you might want to avoid looking up the history of the Caesar Salad.

    [–]Torger083 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So what's supposed to be in the sauce?

    [–]chipsvisor 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    . . . but does real guacamole have tomato in it?

    [–]Enthusiastically 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I can tell you exactly why they changed the recipes. If you're not using expensive, rare, high quality Parmigiano-Reggiano you have no chance of a recipe without cream coming out anywhere like a sauce. Since the other, imitation cheeses melt differently, you're going to need to add the cream in order for it to melt right. A sauce made without reggiano but with cream is closer to the real thing than a sauce made without reggiano or cream, simply because the sauce with cream helps to emulsify the sauce so it's more like the high quality cheese you're probably not using. (same thing with adding cream cheese to alfredo like olive garden does, the cream cheese helps emulsify the cheap parmesan they use instead of parmesan reggiano).

    Since Betty Crocker and Giuliano Hazan weren't writing for gourmets with access to high quality cheese, it actually makes their recipes more authentic than the originals to make the change if they know they are going to be made with the cheaper cheese available when they wrote them.

    Also mixing pasta and cheese and expecting the cheese to cook with the heat left over in the noodles is advanced cooking and it's not something betty crocker should be assuming her readers will get right or even be comfortable trying.

    If you made alfredo with the cheap cheese Hazan and Crocker were imagining their audiences had access to and bungled adding the cheese to the hot noodles, you'd get a much worse result that would end up being less authentic than the original dish.

    [–]calyphus 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The way I make it is to simply reserve some of the pasta water when draining the cooked pasta, return the noodles to the pot, add Parmesan, stir over low heat till the cheese melts and add just enough of the water until it's just the right consistency.

    That's the ATC recipe.

    [–]CarlChronicles 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What is ATC?
    Did you mean America's Test Kitchen? If so, they use cream in their recipe.
    Your post implies that you don't use cream.

    [–]ITRAINEDYOURMONKEY 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Appalachian Trail Cookery? (Everybody knows a backpacking trip isn't complete without some trail alfredo, right?)

    [–]ladylurkedalot 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's the recipe my Italian great-aunt used. The problem is that it's very time and heat dependent, so it's no good for a situation where it might need to sit around a while, or be reheated, or whatever. So you add cream and butter, or just make a plain old bechamel and dump parmesan into it. And because lots of people (well, Americans, anyway) use boxed pasta and pre-grated cheese that might as well be saw dust, it tastes bland and boring. Then you start adding things like garlic and herbs to add flavor back in. And then you've got something called "Alfredo" that doesn't have a lot to do with the original dish.

    [–]CarouselambraSucks 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think what it all boils down to, no pun intended, is that original sauce itself was very simple but you need something that's going to stretch, that you can make a lot of, and that is stable. Eventually it was tweaked enough to become the sauce we know now.

    [–]pastaandpizza 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I get your uproar about the cream based recipes, but considering its basically just replacing the butter in the "original" recipe...I mean...substituting butter for cream in this kind of recipe isn't THAT bad. And butter is basically just churned cream anyway.

    And the more I think of it, turning cream into a solid to make butter, only to just remelt it...using cream instead seems very reasonable.

    [–]WhoopsHamlet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I was thinking the same. As far as deviations go, using the same ingredient in its pre-processed form isn't much of a leap.

    [–]StChas77 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you don't have an alternative recipe, then it doesn't matter if there's an "authentic" way to make an Alfredo or not.

    [–]sgnmarcus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can we blame Julia Child on this? Isn't she the one who said, "If you're afraid of the butter, use cream".

    /s

    [–]Quiggibub 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't care. It's delicious with cream and only really, truly hardcore food snobs would get upset over someone calling it alfredo sauce when made with cream. It's like getting upset whenever someone calls unboiled ramen noodles raw. Yes, they're fried, we get it. Good for you.

    [–]ajonstage 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Alfredo is to Italian food as sweet/sour chicken is to Chinese food. The word 'authentic' should not be found anywhere near it. So what are you suggesting - that people stop making pasta with a cream-based sauce, or that they simply change the name? Because neither is going to happen. Nobody cares.

    Additionally, the notion of a 'false recipe' is absurd. If there were only one acceptable way to make every dish, there wouldn't be new cookbooks published each year. Things evolve, that's how the world works. Notions of 'purity' are ridiculous and unsettling.

    [–]giveitago 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I try to stay away from these indie feuds.