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Questions Truthier Won't Answer About Himself (self.zen)

ewk が 投稿

  1. Are you a beginner Zen student or not?
  2. If you are a beginner, then are you going to study Zen study while you are here? As a beginner, how will you go about it?
  3. If you don't know what a "Zen text" is, then why do you believe you are in a position to tell people what Zen is or isn't?
  4. What evidence is there of there being any existent "teachings of Shakyamuni"? If there is none, say "there is none".
  5. If you don't have any examples of Zen Masters teaching peace, then why would you claim that Zen Masters teach "not rejecting peace"?

These came out of some exchanges we had today. I argued that these were straight forward questions. He declined to discuss them, except by changing the subject.

I maintain each question can be answered with a single statement.

Take a crack at them /r/Zen! Show him how it's done.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]p_j_w 9ポイント10ポイント  (22子コメント)

He declined to discuss them, except by changing the subject.

This sounds familiar. Are you congratulating him on a job well done?

[–]Truthier 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Apparently inquiring as to the question's meaning or intention is actually "refusing to answer" and cowardice.

The only thing remaining to quench the interrogator's apparent burning desire to "win", logic or wisdom having failed, is to ask ambiguous questions, and mock any honest attempt to address them

Just look at my comment history from 12 hours ago to see me engage these questions repeatedly and with sincerity, only to be ignored and mocked.

Evidence of psycho-emotional problems perhaps.

[–]p_j_w 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Just look at my comment history from 12 hours ago to see me engage these questions repeatedly and with sincerity, only to be ignored and mocked.

I actually saw that. For all his yammering on about intellectual honesty, he sure seems to lack it.

[–]Truthier 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not attacking the question-asker at all, just pointing out the facts.

[–]p_j_w 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know you aren't. You're much more polite about it than I am!

[–]CarryWood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

hrm... perhaaaaaps.

[–]ewk[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (16子コメント)

I keep waiting for the questions you accuse me of avoiding... how about you OP it up?

[–]p_j_w 4ポイント5ポイント  (13子コメント)

I point them out to you and you always just dodge.

how about you OP it up?

How about no. How about you just start actually answering when people ask something.

[–]ewk[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (12子コメント)

OP it up! You made the claim! Now prove it!

Or are you all hat and no cattle?

I asked Truthier if he was going to answer, or should I OP it up.

He said OP it up.

I OP'd it up.

Are you less honest than me?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Master, when you repeat the phrases "honesty" and "courage" you appear to be suffering under a grandiose delusion...

Is the lack of progress and unwillingness to help that you display a narcissistic personality dysfunction as it appears?

[–]mykhathasnotail 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

You can't just an invent a standard of requiring posts to ask you questions and expect everyone to accept it. Do you realize how ridiculous that is?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The good Master Ewk is the only Zennist capable of Zenny Zen. The sooner you accept that the closer you will be to the patriarchs!

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Explain it to me. Explain how asking people questions about what they believe is ridiculous. Explain how exposing make believe and cowardice is somehow antithetical to the study of the self nature.

Explain to me what Guishan means when he says, "This question, What do they teach where you come from? is the fang and claw of the Zen lineage."

[–]CarryWood 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why don't YOU explain huangpo. Or is it all claims with you?

http://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/37hncj/a_zen_abbots_reflection_on_memorial_day/crn9fv5

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I did. Maybe you missed it?

Peace on inside is not equal to peace on outside.

[–]throw_zen_awayCame for the dharma, stayed for the drama 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cite your sources. Cowards make claims. Students cite. What Zen Master teaches

Peace on inside is not equal to peace on outside.

/u/Truthier said:rejection of peace within heart is not Zen

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/37hncj/a_zen_abbots_reflection_on_memorial_day/

You say: Huangbo's peace is on the inside and this translates more often than not to other people not having peace on the outside.

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/37jr5d/questions_truthier_wont_answer_about_himself/crne79e

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do you study Zen?

Read Huangbo. Post about the meaning of "peace" in Huangbo.

It isn't Buddhist at all.

[–]p_j_w 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You made the claim! Now prove it!

I've done it before and you always just dance around it. No, I will not make a post about it. The last thing this subreddit needs is more of your bullshit cluttering up the front page.

[–]ewk[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you don't believe what you say, what choice do you have but cowardice?

[–]p_j_w 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's pretty cute.

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

An OP? Are you sure? Why not first an AMA; maybe two mini-AMAs followed by an OP?

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you still trying to find somebody in your church who teaches courage? Or is an AMA still too much for you?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

Master, to categorize students as beginner would mean one is advanced - why have you not answered questions on what Zen is to give them an example?

If, as the patriarchs claim, Zen is not transmitted by words, why is the study of Zen text important?

Master, when the Barbarian came from the West, he claimed to carry with him the essence of Shakymuni, transmitted via the flower sermon. If there was no Teachings, how is there a Zen? Can you Explain?

Master, countless Ancestors referred to the "Tranquil Body" of the Buddhas - how is this considered different than teaching "peace"?

If these statements can be answered in one single statement, then would the master kindly enlighten us blind nattering fools before we further insult the history of Zen?

[–]John_Johnson 0ポイント1ポイント  (10子コメント)

Eh. I began studying martial arts many years ago. Beginner that I was, I could even then identify beginners. It didn't mean I was advanced.

That's your first statement carved up for you. I'm not sanguine about the remainder, either.

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Funny!

Huangbo's peace is on the inside and this translates more often than not to other people not having peace on the outside.

Whereas Buddhists tranquilize themselves (in the West) in order to spread tranquility to others, Huangbo was free of any need for tranquility in himself or others... so he messed with people sometimes and their tranquility was disturbed.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Master Ewk, not only have you not confronted any of my questions, you seem to have responded in a nonsensical jumble of phrases to a statement that was defending you. Is this what HuangBo meant by "being undisturbed by doctrine"?

[–]John_Johnson -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Hey. I didn't defend Ewk. All I did was point out a clear fallacy in your statement. Defense implies attack -- and if that was an attack, you were using a rather blunt spoon.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Blunt tools are designed for smacking, not for cutting. For what purpose does one smack?

[–]John_Johnson 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Makes no difference if its the wrong tool for the job.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you the master stone mason? Prime knowledgeable one of all things tool related? Do you even know what my job is?

[–]John_Johnson 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Should I be interested? You set about doing something, but you made the attempt with a broken tool. If you go about your actual work the same way, there would seem to be little in it for me beyond a certain cruel amusement.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Again, if you don't know what the job was, how do you know the tool is broken?

If cruel amusement was my mission, there's much better ways to accomplish it.

[–]zenthrowaway17 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've seen him around a lot.

Hey /u/truthier/, what kind of person are you? Or are you a meat popsicle?

If so, what kind of meat popsicle are you?

[–]throw_zen_awayCame for the dharma, stayed for the drama 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why not taste him and find out?

[–]zenthrowaway17 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm trying but he hasn't responded yet.

[–]Ariyas108 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Take a crack at them /r/Zen! Show him how it's done.

Why?

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (5子コメント)

Why not? Are you unable to answer questions about what you believe?

So much for seeing your self nature...

[–]Ariyas108 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you unable to answer questions about what you believe?

I can answer questions fine but I would just like to know for what purpose? Why not isn't a reason why.

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why don't you answer first, and then, if it turns out that you aren't talking about what Zen Masters are talking about, in a forum about what Zen Masters are talking about, then we'll discuss "purpose".

[–]Ariyas108 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Alright.

Are you a beginner Zen student or not?

Not

If you are a beginner, then are you going to study Zen study while you are here? As a beginner, how will you go about it?

n/a

If you don't know what a "Zen text" is, then why do you believe you are in a position to tell people what Zen is or isn't?

n/a I know what "zen text" is.

What evidence is there of there being any existent "teachings of Shakyamuni"? If there is none, say "there is none".

There is none.

If you don't have any examples of Zen Masters teaching peace, then why would you claim that Zen Masters teach "not rejecting peace"?

n/a I don't claim that.

Ok, now for what purpose do you want people to answer these questions?

[–]ewk[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

  1. Why do you claim you aren't a beginner?
  2. What is a Zen text?

See, we already have two purposes in answer to your question... the first purpose is that you are teaching /u/Truthier about answering questions by your fearless example... the second purpose is that you have, by your answers (to his questions, really, not yours) given some indication about where claws might find purchase in your own flesh...

Two purposes! And only one set of answers from you!

What a bargain.

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your altar boy says he's not a beginner. Are you going to bring out the claws for him, or another reacharound?

[–]zenthrowaway17 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh wait, you were asking all of us questions too? I like answering questions about ME!

1.) Nope. Not even really a student at all.

2.) See 1.)

3.) I am in a position to tell people what Zen is or isn't because I have the ability to type and words show up here and I can type "Zen is a world carved in stone by stone" or "Zen isn't a puppy".

See! I just did!

4.) I don't know. What am I? An archaeologist? But if there are any, they belong in a museum. So maybe I should look there.

5.) Probably to trick people into doing my bidding. I'll say pretty much whatever if I think it'll trick people well.

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You ever have a puppy? And you put down newspapers for the puppy? And then the puppy pees just to the side of the newspapers?

What's that called?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hear, hear! This fellow's the second most Zenny Zennist of all Zennyland! Second only to Master Ewk himself!

[–]zenthrowaway17 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll probably never compare to this guy though...

[–]songhill 3ポイント4ポイント  (20子コメント)

These Zen disputes, if not outright wrangling, are often marked by an abnoral haste to label (identify or re-present); as it were, to cutoff discussion or render such discussions superficial if not overly simplistic so that they die out. There is no depth in a label, so there is also a cutoff of depth in most of these discussions. /r/zen shows itself to be shallow as a consequence. What is its potential is ignored for the immediancy of the rebuke followed by the drive to label—affix a pejorative identity.

[–]Truthier 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

What "zen disputes"? All I see is a bunch of trick questions that have no sincerity behind them. (Based on the asker's lack of desire to clarify what is being asked)

thus I can only assume these are some kind of trick questions meant to trap the person being asked into admitting something, as opposed to sincere questions

If someone has a question and they are sincerely asking something, and the person being asked asks for clarification, typically the person asking the question would oblige.

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, complex/loaded questions. There are few if any sincere questions being asked.

[–]zen_historian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

All I see is a bunch of trick questions that have no sincerity behind them. (Based on the asker's lack of desire to clarify what is being asked) thus I can only assume these are some kind of trick questions meant to trap the person being asked into admitting something, as opposed to sincere questions

No shit you lying fuckIng coward. Tell the other mods, you coward.

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

You know what shallow is?

"Sutras trump Zen Masters". That's a songhill quote.

He claims he believes it.

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

I speak Zen as in:

When speaking, your words should accord with the scriptures. ~ Guishan

You have rebuked the sutras.

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

Guishan didn't say that.

It seems the only Zen you study is the stuff you pretend is Zen.

Dogen tried that too.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure what Guishan you've read, but it's a direct quote from Guishan jingce

Or was that not one of the texts that you read "5 or 6 times"?

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Read the Guishan jingce then study from my reading list. It is more expansive than yours.

http://www.thedefinitivereadinglistofzen/lineage/library/text.html

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

The Guishan jince is a forgery, even the scholar who translated it acknowledges that, not to mention other scholars.

There is a history of forged Zen texts, a rather famous history. Do you study Zen?

There are forgeries on the list you are offering me, as you know.

It's almost as if you are afraid to talk about this much shorter, much more famous list: http://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/lineagetexts

Why would you be afraid to talk about Zen?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, everything that disagrees with you is a forgery and not real Zen.

Very wise, master!

[–]songhill 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Forgery? LOL At the worst, it is no more of a forgery than Huangbo's sermons which you cuddle and drool over. In fact, the evidence is overwhelming that Huangbo's sermons are forgeries, forged by the prominent official Pei Xiu. Huangbo never put his brush to paper.

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (8子コメント)

Don't be silly. The Huangbo text was written by somebody who claimed to know Huangbo, and, like the other Zen Sayings texts, there is some evidence of that. Maybe not enough for you, but whatever.

In contrast, there is lots of evidence that the text you are referring to wasn't written by anyone who ever met Guishan, let alone knew him or his students.

Much like the text that Dogen claimed that Baizhang wrote, there is no connection between the Guishan text and anything anyone ever attributed to Guishan.

You might as well make up a text and pretend it was a Zen teaching... or have you already done that?

[–]songhill 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's another ewk "moment" of falsehoods mixed with obfuscations.

[–]nwv 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

i'm starting to come around to it. The circular fallacies are brilliant.

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why don't you go back to bragging about how you are "enlightened"?

Jumping up and down and shouting "lies" only works when you can prove somebody is a liar, like when I prove that you lie about enlightenment like this:

AMA!!

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except Huang Bo denounces students who rely on books.

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 4ポイント5ポイント  (22子コメント)

This is abusive, hectoring, nonsensical. Throw this bum out.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The good master Ewk demonstrates for us what a bad Zen master looks like, out of compassion.

[–]zenthrowaway17 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

TIL hectoring is a word.

You sure you want to compare ewk (even if only etymologically) to one of the greatest heroes in Western history?

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

He's no hero. It's true that the term "hectoring" has wandered far from its origin. Much like "Zen."

synonyms: bully, intimidate, browbeat, harass, torment, plague

[–]HP_LoveKraftwerk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a second I thought this was the same etymology for "heckle", but it's not! Interesting!

[–]ewk[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure.

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (16子コメント)

Given that you bragged about how you were going to do an AMA, chickened out once the questions were on the table, deleted the AMA surreptitiously and then lied about it?

I'd say questions are what scared you away from this forum.

You threw yourself out.

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 0ポイント1ポイント  (15子コメント)

So now I bragged about doing AMA? In the past you've said that I never did an AMA. Get it straight, trash.

OR you could just come to stay at the:

YMCA! YMCA!

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

Bragging about an AMA, posting an AMA thread, then refusing to answer questions is not doing an AMA... how is that confusing?

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 0ポイント1ポイント  (13子コメント)

"Squaaaaaaaaawk!"

What is your fixation on AMAs? Do they get your dick hard, like 61 year old post-satori old men in "Juicy" shorts?

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

I guess we won't find out because you are afraid to talk about your religion...

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yes, master Ewk, pretend as though you do not provoke bad behavior in people to keep the illusion of wisdom, quite good.

[–]rockytimberWei -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

as though you do not provoke bad behavior in people

How precious. Muju now has an excuse.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Eh, he should have been more discriminatory.

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This from a rather sissy little man who once late night PM'd me, while drunk out of his gourd-shaped head, the following charming and well-behaved message: "I'll tear you a fifteenth asshole."

You can't shove a bull's shit back up its ass, drool-bucket, so why do you keep on with your backwoods yodeling?

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

OR, maybe I don't even have a religion!!!

Braying something loudly and often doesn't make it true. -Lin-Chi

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

AMA!!

Or are you hoping to make something true?

[–]mujushingyostarryvastness 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

YMCA!

[–]ewk[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sure what significance the YMCA has for you...

[–]Truthier 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I know, why is it that I always refuse to answer questions ?!

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

Oh, you mean where you didn't know whether you were a beginning Zen student or not and you couldn't identify what a Zen text is?

As I've been saying, 29k people can decide for themselves if you are answering these questions... pretending you've answered them is just silly.

[–]Truthier 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Is item A the same as item B, or the same as item C?

Answer the question now or forever be branded as a coward who refuses to answer questions.

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Again, the use of bold and font is more of you being a coward.

Can't people decide for themselves if you have answered the questions?

Where do you get "branded forever"? You could decide to be honest literally at any given moment.

But if you are attached right now to maintaining your charade of being a senior Zen student then, sure, you are branded a coward by your own attachment.

[–]Truthier 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

You refuse to answer even a single question! It's obvious for anyone who can read!

[–]ewk[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

See? This isn't /r/Buddhism. People can make up their own minds.

[–]Truthier 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What does that have to do with your refusal to answer even the most basic of questions? Stop deflecting!

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He gets off on pushing your buttons. So far, you're giving him a lot of spank material.

Let's just laugh off his harassment as the ravings of a madman, and move on. Shall we?

(Or perhaps this is a fine opportunity to have a discussion about moderation, and whether we want to encourage endless pestering and crazy accusations...)

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (20子コメント)

Looks like a veiled AMA request.

[–]asymmeter 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

What is all this AMA-demanding-in-arguments here, really? Seems rather pointless.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

The good Master Ewk has seen that students no longer respect him, and as such has taken up a campaign to prove that he's still the zenniest zennist in zennyland.

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

He already tried to do an AMA. He refused to answer questions then too.

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

He should have done your kind of AMA.

I do an AMA all the time.

Did you have a question?

I tend not to make myself the subject when everyone else is doing it to avoid answering questions about their faith.

Like you do. ~ 7/24/14

[–]ewk[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (11子コメント)

I don't understand the argument you think you are having...

[–]songhill -1ポイント0ポイント  (10子コメント)

It is not an argument — maybe to your mouse brain it is. I shows what you think AMAs are for you (oh what vanity) — but for others you demand an inquisition. And anyway, what does an AMA have to do with the heart of Zen?

[–]ewk[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

AMAs are for what Guishan says they are for... the fang and claw of Zen.

Some people never feel the claws, let alone the teeth... the cowards run off.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Master, considering that Guishan once said this -

Because [such corrupt monks] do not observe the small regulations and the minor rules of deportment, they cannot guide the new generation [of monks, as a result of which] new students have no one to emulate [as a model of proper behavior]. When others reprimand them, they say, “I am a mountain monk.” Since they are unfamiliar with the sustained practice of Buddhism, their disposition and actions are constantly unbecoming and crude. When viewed in this way, should beginners become lazy and greedy persons, as time slowly slips by they will eventually become abominable persons. Unaware, they will in due course start staggering and become old and useless. When they encounter various circumstances, they [will not know what to do], like someone facing a wall. When asked [about the teachings of Buddhism] by younger students, they have no words of guidance. Even when they have something to say, their words do not accord with the scriptures. Sometimes, when younger monks speak lightly to them, they reprimand the younger monks for not having good manners. They become angry and rancorous, and they vent their anger on others.

Are you aware that he was referring to people like you?

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just before the passage you submitted, Poceski writes:

According to Guishan, the failure of corrupt monks to learn the Buddhist teachings and acquire proper religious values posed serious structural problems for the monastic order. . . .

[S]uch pseudo-monks eventually assumed positions of seniority in the monastic hierarchy, despite their lack of appropriate spiritual qualities. . . .

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Amusing how these records are not counted as "lineage texts" here.

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ewk even made up the odd term "lineage texts" so has to make the noob believe that there is something special about this selection of books which is a small sampling of the actual works of Zen teachers.

[–]dota2nubMind -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How often have you been bitten?

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I keep putting my hand rather forcefully into the mouths of whoever I come across... so far I haven't learned anything.

[–]AgelessBodhichán 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Imagine the mirrored Doppelganger of Ewk. Wouldn´t that be something great to behold? LOL

[–]songhill 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The picture of Dorian Gray?

[–]AgelessBodhichán 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not precisely ;)

While (Oscar wilde´s) Dorian Gray´s soul might have been something conceived in one of the lesser hells, trapped in the limited parameters of a painting (representing the mind-dividing maze of samsara), his walking and talking persona was perceived as a well-educated, well-articulated man. Combined with an impeccable dress code, he appeared to his surroundings as a rather wealthy and smooth gentleman.

Our Virginian, banana-loving fiend Ewk, though holding on to the same hedonistic standards as Mr Gray, is anything but that. He is more of a 50+, senile, knuckle-dragging orangutang, trying to impress any bypasser in this joint with his grunts and waving gestures.

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The master Ewk has promoted the being now known as the humble and lowly Ama to such a fortuitous position!

The master Ewk is quite wise.

[–]MrValdov 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know.

[–]Ytzi 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

  1. Not.
  2. /
  3. I don't.
  4. There is none.
  5. I do not.

Easy peasy!

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Haha, you're not a beginner? What year did you start?

[–]Ytzi 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

beginner(n) a person just starting to learn a skill or take part in an activity.

The activity being studying Zen. 2014.

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

The remainder of your life will consist in "just starting". Don't fool yourself into thinking you're not a beginner.

[–]Ytzi 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Disagree. A person who fluently speaks the Japanese language is not a beginner -- like I am.

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

gag

[–]Ytzi -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Cat got your AMA tongue again?

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, it's a hairball.

[–]114f860 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

*. Are you a beginner Zen student or not?

I don't know, probably? I'm not sure of the qualifications. Compared to some, probably, compared to others, probably not.

*. If you are a beginner, then are you going to study Zen study while you are here? As a beginner, how will you go about it?

Regardless to my first answer, yes. I've read a few texts from the lineage wiki, I'm currently reading another one, while I go back through the one I've read with underlines and notes and questions and stuff. Sometimes I take a few days to digest particular parts. It's slow going.

*. If you don't know what a "Zen text" is, then why do you believe you are in a position to tell people what Zen is or isn't?

I don't really have time to read as much as I would like. Sometimes I read something outside the lineage texts and it "sounds" similar, but then they throw in a bunch of faith and such which I find incompatible with what I've already digested. Some of the language is beautiful, and even inspiring, but Foyan don't play that shit.

*. What evidence is there of there being any existent "teachings of Shakyamuni"? If there is none, say "there is none".

I'm not qualified to answer that question.

*. If you don't have any examples of Zen Masters teaching peace, then why would you claim that Zen Masters teach "not rejecting peace"?

Slippery question. The peace I've come across seems to be using the word "peace" as an adjective to an experience, Foyan quotes Dahui a few times using this. To understand the meaning differences, he then goes on the say this:

You come here seek­ing expedient techniques, seeking doctrines,r seeking peace and happiness. I have no expedient techniques to give people, no doctrine, no method of peace and happiness. Why? If there is any “expedient technique,” it has the contrary effect of burying you and trapping you.

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

You come here seek­ing expedient techniques, seeking doctrines,r seeking peace and happiness. I have no expedient techniques to give people, no doctrine, no method of peace and happiness. Why? If there is any “expedient technique,” it has the contrary effect of burying you and trapping you.

There are a couple of people in this forum that don't want to answer questions and a couple who are angry that anybody even dares to demand answers... but come on!

Either we are here to talk about Foyan or we aren't.

Either people have the courage to stand up to Foyan or they don't.

[–]114f860 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I thought that's what /r/zensangha was going to be, but that seems to only be full of tumble weeds.

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Serious question: why do you think zensangha has failed so far?

[–]114f860 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know, probably more than one reason for the lack of participation.

People sometimes get ambitious at first, but lose interest.

I think about what this place would be like without certain people, and what it was like when I started.

The main content was knocking posts down, and calling people out on things, with occasional but definitely periodic lineage text posts, which I really enjoyed.

I had a thought that without certain motivations to be right, or win to be a guru or whatever authority positions are at play this place would be a ghost town too. Or a internet picture with words overlay factory. It's hard to say though.

why do you think?

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/zensangha started like /r/zendo -- "let's have a place without those pesky people we don't like", except that zensangha took the further step of being invitation-only. The end result seems to be a handful of users who agree with each other. Ewk gets to post the same nonsense he posts here (sometimes even more ridiculous), without anybody disagreeing. Obviously, disagreement results in more activity on a discussion forum (which is not to say that disagreement is a virtue...).

The other posts I've seen there are from folks who seem kind of lost, looking for direction, lacking confidence (low qi, as muju might say).

A discussion forum needs members who know how to engage with people and care about them. It's not easy to do well. Ewk's posturing and harassment are a kind of engagement, even though it's self-serving and not productive.

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's quiet over there.

Maybe everybody brought their mind to Bodhidharma and he pacified it for them.

I mean, just as our troll problem tends to be a disincentive for scholars, particularly Buddhist scholars, to have serious conversations with us, our troll problem tends to provide people with entertainment and lower the standards of this community when it comes to self examination. The idea that people claiming to be enlightened are afraid to do AMAs is really ironic and funny, but it's also a indication about the difference between religious thinking and Zen study. People go to see Zen Masters with questions. That's the start of the conversation.

People generally don't come in here and feel much of a community focus and insistence on asking questions and knowing the self. It's one thing for the mods to delete posts and comments that are completely off topic... it's another for the mods to delete posts and comments that don't indicate any serious commitment to scholarship or self examination.

Of course the harder the mods push the smaller the community we end up with... and without enough whipping we end up with tumble weeds.

In the summer of the first year of Jõtei, Ekai was in Ryûshõ Temple and as head monk worked with the monks, using the Cases of the ancient masters as brickbats to batter the gate

If people are more interested in making claims and calling names than they are in discussing Cases, let alone using them as brick bats, what capacity does that suggest?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, admitting that the student asks the question to the master, and given that you only ask questions and never answer them, who does that make you?

[–]114f860 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, I would agree that it is officially a problem to at least to what had initially interested me about this place.

I don't think they care, one of them commented that this was better than a video game because the levels never end.

[–]CarryWood 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ewk claims he can explain HuangPo. CLAM! ANA! PP IT UP!

http://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/37hncj/a_zen_abbots_reflection_on_memorial_day/crn9fv5

[–]ewk[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a third time?

[–]ewkpatez 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What does this have to do with Zen? Why not study Zen while you are here?

[–]monkeyswithmirrorsCorpse Draggers Anonymous 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The good Master Ewk has told us that we do not know Zen, and we should study HuangBo.

HuangBo however, disagreed.

We are still waiting for the good Master Ewk to update his teaching.

[–]ChopWater 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Narcissists can't stand not being the center of attention. I'm surprised you didn't put a link to your "book" in this post, like you do in all your other posts.

[–]114f860 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your recent post history might make you a narcissist then.

Might want to check the dip stick.

[–]ChopWater -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why's that? I posted pictures for you, not for me.