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Suicide Call and Shooting, 911 Call Included (jacksonville.com)

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[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

The thread that was deleted was complaining about the Daily Beast stock photo, so here's a different source with the 911 call.

It seems that a suicide prevention line wasn't called, but 911 instead. The woman who called described the knife as a sword. It was a large knife, but somebody should have asked her if it was literally a sword, because the operator immediately relayed that it was a sword, and doesn't correct that when the woman later refers to it as a knife.

In any case, two deputies were dispatched with rifles. The woman made it clear that the man was lying down, drunk, and not aggressive. She thought he was passed out. She clearly did not feel threatened, saying that she knew for a fact he wouldn't hurt her.

As a civilian, why didn't the operator relay this information? The operator dispatched officers, telling them that the suspect had a "sword in his hand". The operator couldn't have radioed in and said that the suspect seems calm, and is laying down? She couldn't have relayed that the caller didn't feel threatened in the slightest? She couldn't have corrected the initial report of a sword when the caller said it was actually a knife? I personally feel like escalation is an issue here, and it seems like the operator played a big part in that. Two deputies approached this condo expecting a guy wielding a sword. It was ridiculously clear that both the caller and the guy with the knife were calm, and the guy seemed like only a threat to himself.

[–]Prospiciens***That Guy*** [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

why didn't the operator relay this information?

We. Don't. Know.

None of us were in that Communications Center and furthermore, none of us were inside that Dispatcher's mind.

[–]girafa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Likewise, we also weren't there when the deputies addressed the man with the huge f'n knife.

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Well I don't expect you to know, but I do wonder what the procedure here is. Do dispatchers ever follow up with corrected information?

It seems exceedingly stupid to dispatch officers with only the information that a man "has a sword" when clearly, for the duration of the call, the man was lying down calmly and the woman felt no danger. This was a calm situation that escalated to a death due to the actions of the dispatcher and deputies. If I were one of those officers, I'd definitely want to know whether the guy was threateningly wielding a sword, or calmly laying in his bed with a knife. There's a fucking canyon of difference between those two.

[–]girafa [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

that escalated to a death due to the actions of the dispatcher and deputies.

Or it was escalated by the man with the big knife who attacked the deputies. But hey, you do you.

[–]the_dude523 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Did he? What indication do you have of that? Bc I didn't get that anywhere.. And if he did, couldn't it be possible that his aggression was caused by the police?

[–]girafa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/05/28/man-calls-suicide-line-police-kill-him.html

The only people in the room were two deputies and a suicidal man holding this knife.

couldn't it be possible that his aggression was caused by the police?

Yes it's absolutely possible, but it's a total fabrication to assume it or report it as fact.

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or it was escalated by the man with the big knife who attacked the deputies.

Oh, how do you know that?

All I know is that a woman calmly remained in close proximity to the man for the duration of an 8 minute call, and the guy was laying down, possibly passed out, and calm as well. The officers arrived and shot the man. The calm situation turned into a deadly one when the officers arrived. I never said they're entirely at fault.

[–]Maverician [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Where is there anything saying he attacked the deputies?

[–]OFC_NOIS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The first time I ever went hands on, I went to pick up a mentally ill man from a psych clinic and bring him to the hospital.

All I was advised was his description, where he was located, and that he had a mental illness. Dispatch also advised me they were unsure of weapons. You have asked why that is important? Why escalate? I mean, I am just giving a person a ride to the hospital, it can't be all that bad? He wasn't being disorderly.

Upon arrival at the psych clinic, a quiet compliant man saw the badge and uniform and immediately freaked out. I attempted to calm him down by talking softly and letting him explain his fears, while explaining the process. Words failed, and he went hands on, describing me as Megatron and he Optimus Prime (could be interpreted as fighting words.)

A physical altercation occurred where I was hit as he tried to flee (we were legally bound to bring him to a hospital.) We found two knives on his person when we were finally able to restrain him. A simple ride to the hospital turned into a fight.

Hindsight being 20/20, if I had known I was going to end up in a fight with a guy, especially one who is mentally unstable, I would have loved to know if he had those knives.

My point is, you never know as an officer what type of situation you are going into. A calm man who has a weapon, who is contemplating suicide (a symptom, if not a mental illness itself), could easily be upset by the sight of two officers. We don't know the full story, because it isn't out yet, but what if he charged the two officers with the knife?

We have an (understandably so) upset family member's account. As always, it isn't time for pitchforks yet, it is time to wait to hear what happened. A thorough and fair investigation takes time.

TL:DR? We know nothing yet, this could have been way crazier than it even sounds.

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The operator couldn't have radioed in and said that the suspect seems calm, and is laying down? She couldn't have relayed that the caller didn't feel threatened in the slightest? She couldn't have corrected the initial report of a sword when the caller said it was actually a knife?

Dispatchers can update information in ways other than talking. Maybe the dispatcher updated the call by typing in notes saying these things.

It doesn't matter if it was called a knife or a sword, they are both cutting objects that are just a different length. Also, that "knife" looks more like a "sword" than what most people would consider a knife. If the dispatcher had said "never mind guys, it's a knife, not a sword" and they showed up to that thing, the deputies would be right to be pissed.

The only issue here is whether or not the deputies were in fear of their lives or another person's. Did the guy stay on the ground and just get shot immediately or did he maybe assault the deputies with the sword? With the information from this article, that is impossible to tell.

[–]the_dude523 [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

I'd like to know what in the fuck made these jackasses shoot him.

Edited: punctuation.. Its early man

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'd like to know why you posed that as a question.

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Yeah, me too.

This source isn't as sensationalized as the Daily Beast one, but it's still really damning for those deputies. Everything about the call was really calm. The woman didn't feel threatened in the slightest (she kept checking on the guy, and remained in the apartment for the majority of the call), and the guy was clearly laying in bed since she thought he was passed out. It's not like he was wildly flailing around with a knife.

This was clearly a calm situation before the officers arrived.

[–]sooovadNon-Sworn Employee [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

Why didn't she walk in and take the knife from him if he wouldn't hurt her?

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

She walked in to check on him multiple times, and remained in close proximity to him for the duration of an 8-minute call. I'd say she felt no danger (and she did say that, too!)

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I'd say she felt no danger

Then why did she call 911?

[–]Vividier [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She didn't. She called a suicide line who referred the police to the situation.

Also you should probably know that there are many reasons to call 911. Many of which include getting help for other people, nothing to do with feeling in danger yourself.

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She said herself, she "didn't know what else to do". Her boyfriend was suicidal.

She literally said herself that she knew he wouldn't hurt her. I don't understand the confusion. She didn't feel any danger.

[–]Maverician [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

... uh so that he wouldn't kill himself? Seriously? That is your question?

[–]the_dude523 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

She felt he was in danger... Or does that not make sense to you?

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I thought he was laying down passed out? Next time I take a nap please call 911 for me.

[–]Vividier [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe because she thought he might hurt himself sooner if she tried or threatened to take the knife from him? Maybe because she didn't want to further distress him and wanted to wait for someone trained to handle a suicidal person. Or maybe she didn't feel threatened but thought that if she tried to take it off him either one of them could end getting hurt by accident.

If you are seriously asking why she didn't try to take a knife off a suicidal person by force you must have no empathy or understanding of others whatsoever.

[–]charlestonchewing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The woman didn't feel threatened in the slightest

Why does that matter? What matters is what happened between the cops and the guy. Just because he was laying there when the girl was in the apartment doesn't mean he didn't threaten the cops when they came in. Your article even says there was some type of confrontation. It seems unclear exactly what that was.

[–]charlestonchewing [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Probably this

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You heard it here on /r/ProtectAndServe! If you own a large knife, you deserve to be shot dead by police!

[–]bandit145Not an LEO [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not sure if this is sarcasm but that's not at all what he said.

[–]charlestonchewing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yup. Exactly what I meant.

[–]the_dude523 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I own a couple bigger than that. Should I be shot when I have a bad day?

[–]charlestonchewing [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If you go after someone with it, sure.

[–]the_dude523 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And if I just want you to get away from me and don't do what you tell me to do?

[–]Whirlybear [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's a tragedy.

I'm already hearing people say "never call the police in these situations". These "situations" happen hundreds of times everyday and end with the police going home safely and the suicidal person getting the help they need. This one goes wrong and all that good police work goes to shit and they are vilified.

You never hear about the calls that go well.

[–]dirtskydirtambulanceAspiring LEO [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

That's a big motherfucking knife.

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

And the deputies' guns were even bigger. So what?

[–]ninjafacesNot a LEO [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I'm trying to figure out the point you're trying to make. They're both deadly weapons. So what are you implying?

[–]MrHeuristic[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

"That's a big motherfucking knife" seems to imply that it was the guy's fault he got shot by the deputies.

I'm saying the size of his knife says nothing about how dangerous the situation was, or how aggressive the suicidal man was. Yeah, it was a big knife, that doesn't mean the shooting was justified.

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm saying the size of his knife says nothing about how dangerous the situation was

Really?

The woman who called described the knife as a sword. It was a large knife, but somebody should have asked her if it was literally a sword, because the operator immediately relayed that it was a sword, and doesn't correct that when the woman later refers to it as a knife.

She couldn't have corrected the initial report of a sword when the caller said it was actually a knife?

You're typing out of both sides of your ass.

[–]charlestonchewing [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"That's a big motherfucking knife" seems to imply that it was the guy's fault he got shot by the deputies.

Yes it is. What is your point?

I'm saying the size of his knife says nothing about how dangerous the situation was

What the fuck. How so? A pocket knife makes for a less dangerous situation than a small sword. Do you honestly not understand that?

You're focusing too much on the knife itself. Its not about the knife, its about the the guy did with the knife.

[–]OFC_NOIS [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This thread is going to end up burning. Too much flaming going on. Really wish everyone could keep their cool.

[–]mpwac [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What the fuck?!