全 43 件のコメント

[–]andreib14 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

IMO you rank teutonic order way too high considering they are the first target for Poland once they get their ruler.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's quite possible for the TO to repel Poland with strong allies, especially if it joins the HRE.

[–]kleini 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

And where are you getting those allies in a MP game? Most countries you'd want to ally will probably be played by a human, so you'll need some real diplo skills along with those virtual...

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Diplomacy is the most powerful thing in the game. If you can't negotiate well it doesn't matter what country you play. You aren't going to do well.

[–]HoboBruteDiplomat 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's possible, sure, but if you don't get an alliance with Austria in the first 2 years, you're screwed

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since Austria is picked pretty frequently, it's often quite easy to get Austria's help in most situations.

[–]Gilad1Inquisitor 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

Bit surprised Venice isn't listed up there. With their events they essentially get god tier rulers almost the entire game and are rich enough to field huge merc armies and big navies. You're in a very vital position at game start, people want to be your friend since you're in a great position for any wars against really anyone that borders the Mediterranean or Black Sea.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Venice is an an extremely precarious position. They are surrounded by powerful enemies on all sides and you don't have any real opportunities to expand.

[–]aragonkingofgonder 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

Venice is in a better position than TO,Denmark and a dutch minor in every standart,To will get crushed by sweden/poland/lithuania/brandenburg anytime,Denmark probably will have a sweden player as a neighbor and the dutch only can expand into hre land/burgundian land.

[–]RomanosIV 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Denmark

I don't know about that. As long as there aren't any humans playing novgorod, moscow, sweden, norway or maybe england, you can be pretty confident you'll be able to integrate Sweden and Norway once the timer expires.

[–]Het_BestemmingsplanQuartermaster 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

TO is way too high. Venice should be in there. Oirat as well. Japan too. Mali and Songhai are rather easy as well, if you're the only player in the area. Especially Songhai. Both Bohemia and Novgorod are easy too, for a player. Not too hard to ally the rivals of your rivals.

Edit: Forgot Ayutthaya, Jaunpur, Bengal as well.

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 1ポイント2ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'd just like to say that I believe Burgundy's ideas are not lackluster and are one of the best in the game for their situation. They're in the richest trade node in the world with lands with relatively low manpower so the mercenary ideas help out a lot. The only undesirable part of their ideas is the 5% cavalry combat ability which is subpar.

[–]TrickyWinger 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

To be fair though Burgundy can have some pretty awful events if there is not a Netherlands in the game after a certain point. Something between like 1550 and 1600. Not to mention that you can be completely gobbled up by France or the Emperor if your King dies. And some people play Burgundy to try to form the Netherlands because they have some great ideas as well but you'll likely have to give up half your land to France.
As for their ideas they seem fairly centered around mercenaries early game because most likely you'll have a war with either the Emperor or France. Really they're best ideas come at the point where you're having to either worry about those shit Burgundy events or making the decision to become the Netherlands so it kinda makes them weaker in my opinion.

[–]Horo-sama 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention that you can be completely gobbled up by France or the Emperor if your King dies.

The Burgundian Inheritance won't fire if Burgundy is a player-controlled nation.

[–]RomanosIV 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those events can all be avoided by moving your capital to a province in the Netherlands.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

In comparison to French, Spanish, Prussian, Russian, Italian, Milanese, Tuscan, and even Austrian ideas they are quite lacking just to name a few.

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Eh. I wouldn't add Austria, Tuscany and Milan to that list. Tech and idea costs are overvalued on Western nations. Austria also has a quite plainly terrible ambition and their dual ideas have parts that are subpar and are "balanced out" by a part that is subpar. E.g. Fugger banks has an ok -0.05 inflation bonus but the interest rate part is near useless. Imperial Ambitions gives a nice 15% reduction in diplo annexation but the Imperial authority is awful (I believe these kinds of bonuses are useless as you gain so little IA. Their use also smashes to the ground once imperial infighting is disallowed).

On the other hand, there is only 1 idea in the Burgundian ideas that I would not like in a Burgundy campaign. They're all very useful for its situation and most come at good times (like the tolerance of heretics comes in when the Reformation starts to kick in)

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Austria's 10% is extremely powerful early game. The rest of Austria's ideas are quite useful. Fugger Banks is useful because Austria gets a fuckton of inflation because Austria makes close to 10 ducats a month off of Tirol's gold. All of Austria's ideas are good with the exception of the ambition. They aren't amazing, but decent.

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

No it isn't. 11 instead of 10 means you get to bestow imperial grace 5 times every reform. While that's nice itself, you'll almost always end up with an odd number of IA anyway. You also won't get much IA early game (Probably 2-3 reforms for the average player) until the reformation ends unless you do a cheesy Austria strategy. With the nerfs to all the ways you can get IA from one of the AoW patches (I think), the idea has gotten much worse. Yes, it is useful but look at the other nations that get yearly inflation reduction. They're all at -0.10 instead of -0.05. To compensate, they gave Austria interest reduction rate. That idea itself is subpar and coupled with their ambition, if you count the subpar/undesirable ideas Austria and Burgundy have it comes as 2:1 respectively.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

10% morale alone early game is much more powerful than anything Burgundy has.

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Oh, my bad. I thought you meant the Imperial Authority not the morale bonus.

If we're talking about early game (pre reformation) then I'd rather have either Available mercenaries or the 5% Discipline than 10% morale.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Morale is much stronger than discipline early game. This is a well known fact. Burgundy doesn't get bonus available mercenaries until their 3rd idea.

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Discipline is stronger when you outnumber them which is one of the reasons why Burgundy's ideas are great. They have great synergy. Available mercenaries gives you extra forcelimit (12 I think. I forget the exact number) which then lets you make better use of the Discipline.

3rd idea means 9 ideas. That means Admin tech 7. Reformation usually happens around Admin tech 8-9. Still early game with the definition I gave (pre reformation). Also, early game is only a part of the entire game. Throughout the game, Discipline is way better than morale (see Prussian ideas in action mid-late game).

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Discipline is better late game. Burgundy never outnumbers the likes of France or Austria. By the time admin tech 7 arrives nearly 30 years have passed which is more than enough time to lose several consecutive wars.

[–]OceanFlexTrader 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You didn't add much ROTW. With a strong western ally, Aztec, Cusco or Bengal can all grow up to be huge England-style support. Without a buddy to westernise off of, they are Tier 3 or so, because they have a strong enough starting position to hold off Spain for long enough that it's annoying.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What you said is true, but they really don't influence the game very much other than annoying a colonizer.

[–]xan701 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your list makes sense in general, (except you heavily underestimate Timurids and Ming. ((And Prussia to a lesser extent)) ) but doesn't really account for the oddities that mp tends to produce.

In mp, even Albania is viable. I've seen it colonise North America and become a glorified ottoman buffer state. Every minor power can eventually beat the majors if left alone for long enough.

In terms of influence, yes, the powers you've listed tend to be the most consistent ones in terms of changing the games course, but that's it.

[–]UnGauchoCualquiera 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ming is Uber tier in player hands. You can westernize by 1500 if you are fast and by 1550 if you are really slow.

Once you do so there's absolutely nothing anyone can do to stop you from conquering Asia.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except for the fact the even after you westernize you are still very far behind European powers militarily. It takes quite a while to catch up in tech once you westernize to player Europeans and even after that you spend the pretty much rest of the game being far behind Europe in ideas. In addition, late game infantry have less pips than their western counterparts.

[–]UnGauchoCualquiera 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not really. I you went Innovative as you should you can catchup in techs and in ideas pretty quick (less than 50 years) since you can easily afford +3 advisors.

In addition, late game infantry have less pips than their western counterparts.

By 1 pips total from 28 mil tech which is fairly late (1785) and by 2 pips total from mil tech 30 which is 35 years short of the end date. Hardly game changing.

Besides you don't really need top tier units when you can field 300k soldiers and have +1m manpower in reserve.

Edit: Meh you deleted the comment I was replying to. It was multiplayer by the way.

[–]Oskoff 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Timurids should be in there, they're a big blob which can easily form the Mughals for their amazing ideas and can westernize without too many difficulties by rushing to Genoa's provinces in Crimea (returning cores or releasing if they've been annexed). Also having relatively easy access to the high BT provinces in India and China is no small matter.

[–]MisterCooper8472 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you should play more. Ottomans do considerably worse in MP than in SP. Especially if just 1 person teams up with the Mamluks. (like in the current dev. MP)

Also, the TO, and especially the dutch OPM's are considerably weaker than the other nations in the Tier 1 list.

Here's a list of countries by BT

That should be a decent indication for how strong a nation is.

You seem to think Aragan, the large nations in India and Tunis are not worth mentioning, whilst noting 4 Italian minors as being only subpar to the great powers.

[–]Lechh 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why is Kebab so high? They can't get any PU, unless you change religion. Its big minus

[–]CrownocityMap Staring Expert 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because free claims on all the things, stupid military ideas and stupid stability. Also, the player won't make the classic AI mistake of not having a navy strong enough to protect the bosphorous. The vast majority of their land being coastal means they have like the 2nd largest navy (?) in the game at game start.

Edit: It's like as if Russia was formed in 1444.

[–]DeusExImperium[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You summed it up perfectly. The only I'd like to add is Kebab's ultra cheap coring cost make it even easier to blob like crazy.

[–]sanderudam 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And tolerance, and janissaries, and their troops (early-mid). They can also vassalize pretty much everyone in the game unlike the western nations. And they start with literal god ruler.