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[–]Pudgetalks 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (63子コメント)
I don't think anything but female preferences stop more women from joining the scene. As a TO for a small smash 4 weekly, (which is headed by V, the recent winner of Bam7 and the first Woman to win a Sm4sh Major) I don't think that women are actively discouraged from entering the scene. I asked my girlfriend if she's ever felt uncomfortable/not wanted (Not even for just being a girl but in general) and she said no. Some of the Big TO's for Smash 4 in Melbourne are Women (Leisha and V for example.) Obviously my case isn't indicative of every scene but I don't think its a problem. I just hope that as social standards change more girls will be more keen to join E-sports in general. I have no clue why the hell this has so many dislikes though. This is one of the most rational approaches to women in gaming I've seen, but I could be missing something the detractors are rallying (due to no comments fuck I hate that so much)
[–]speakingcraniums 26ポイント27ポイント28ポイント 2時間 前 (62子コメント)
The last smash thing I went to I heard easily a dozen rape jokes. That's the kind of thing that will make people uncomfortable. I'm not saying that my experience is indicative of the whole smash scene but I am saying that from what I've seen, it still has quite a ways to go.
[+]Pudgetalks スコアが基準値未満のコメント-16ポイント-15ポイント-14ポイント 2時間 前 (36子コメント)
Listen as a TO I'm all about expanding the scene, but I honestly don't think rape jokes are that bad (I'm gonna get some flack for this but please hear me out) I don't think rape jokes are funny, not because of the content I couldn't care less but rather because the punchline will always be rape, but I also don't think saying the word "rape" is all that bad either. Rape does have some heavy connotations, but so does the word murder, genocide, body bag, destruction etc. and we seem fine using them. Once again my girlfriend is not indicative of all women, but when I sincerely asked her if I had ever made her uncomfortable by using the word rape, and she laughed and said no.
[–]Jebobek 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
My wife hates when people use the word "rape" casually. Some consider wars (like war on ISIS) a just war. No one considers any rape a "just rape". The two actions lead to bad things but they aren't comparable actions.
I'm not here to give you flack about it or downvote you. I think we should openly talk about our feelings on it, and I think your post is good for the conversation.
[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (5子コメント)
but I honestly don't think rape jokes are that bad
Spoken from a true position of utter privilege.
And what if your funny rape joke got directed towards someone who had been sexually molested or raped?
What does it cost you to not make those jokes? Nothing.
Just because something doesn't offend you doesn't mean it can't be hurtful to someone else. The single act of saying "Well I don't think they are bad" is exactly the problem.
[–]Pudgetalks 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前 (2子コメント)
Okay so I'm also going to get a lot of hate for this but that isn't something I really have to worry about. I haven never even met a single person who has been raped. Same way I will tell my friend "I killed you that set", "I beat your ass that set" "I raped you that set" These are all things that could trigger someone but the likelihood that it actually would is slim to none. as a bad a person as it makes me seem It's not something I'm worried about ever happening.
[–]ComradeBlue 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 51分 前 (1子コメント)
Why would someone tell you they were raped if they knew you were comfortable making jokes about rape?
For example, if you were racist about mexicans, do you think anyone around you would want to say, "Hey Pudgetalks, I'm Mexican"?
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 43分 前 (0子コメント)
Like I said I don't make rape jokes, I don't think they're funny, But I can see if they are Mexican, I can't see if they have been raped. I have a friend who's parents passed away when he was young so I don't make parent related jokes, because I KNEW his parents passed away. If I met him at a tourney last week I obviously wouldn't have the same reservations about making those types of jokes, because I don't know his parents would have passed away.
[–]Lolsgod [スコア非表示] 12分 前 (0子コメント)
Are you kidding me?
Its a JOKE
You really sound like the privileged one if you think you get to dictate what people can and cannot joke about.
For christ sake man this a bit ridiculous.
[–]Apotheosis276 -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I sincerely asked her if I had ever made her uncomfortable by using the word rape, and she laughed and said no.
There's your not "privileged" point of view.
If you are that easily hurt, you probably shouldn't go outside. Or, maybe you should expose yourself a little to what bothers you so you can get used to it. We can't possibly accommodate for all sorts of different PTSD triggers people might have, so why bother?
Competitive environments are not safe spaces. People may talk shit about you. They'll say things you might not like. Some people will actively try to piss you off. Well, actually, that's more common at FGC events. Smash events are more lovey dovey.
[–]XavierMendel -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 1時間 前 (28子コメント)
"People say things someone else dislikes. Water wet, fire hot, more obvious news at 11."
But seriously, people say things that someone may not like. It happens every time anyone says anything. "I like M&Ms" is innocent, but then someone says "as a chocolatekin I am deeply triggered" and now M&Ms are banned. The solution is to not care so much what everybody thinks and just go about your day without worrying what someone else is joking about to their friends.
[–]reddit409 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間 前 (27子コメント)
What's so hard about not using words that actually upset other people, though? Your example is a bit extreme, but in real life these situations do happen.
[–]XavierMendel -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 1時間 前 (26子コメント)
Because everything upsets people. I was once in carnegie science center in Pittsburgh and overheard a woman telling off an employee for saying "submarine". (Great place though, take your kids it's awesome.)
I understand that someone's upset by the word "rape", and I'm sure they're upset by many more entries in the dictionary as well. I'm upset by thievery. It doesn't mean the word "thief" should be banned. A word is not an action. People don't get arrested for saying "murder" the same way they don't get arrested for having pictures of crime scenes (that would've made criminology classes tough).
It's a word. It's a collection of letters that represent a concept. If someone uses it to create a threat toward a specific person, the threat is a problem. The word isn't.
Get what I mean?
[–]reddit409 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (16子コメント)
I understand. By that logic, though, using phrases that use certain words as an action, e.g., "I raped you that set," are still to be avoided. Right? It seems to me that using stuff like that as a metaphor rather than objectively talking about whatever-the-heck the triggering thing may be are of different weights.
[–]XavierMendel -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 1時間 前 (15子コメント)
That's more a question of linguistic evolution. The same way that "literally" has evolved to mean either literally or not literally, "raped" has grown to mean "to destroy or defeat". Oddly enough, "rape" also means "to plunder or despoil." Not sure what to make of that.
When someone says, after a game, that someone got raped, it would be unusual to take that as meaning the primary definition. After all, Smash doesn't have sex in it. Everyone knows what they really mean by it. If you understand what they're saying, is it really a problem?
I have this conversation every so often with other smashers, usually in the IRC. It tends to end when they say only a rape victim could understand, then I inform them that I went through it as a child, then they say it doesn't matter because I'm a man, then it just devolves into "but you can't be sexist against men" and whatnot.
[–]reddit409 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (14子コメント)
Hey man, proud of you for how you're handling your past.
I see what you mean, but not all have had the same experiences, nor the same growth since those things have happened to them. It's not a one-size-fits-all situation. I'd err on the side of being overly-sensitive rather than overly-apathetic.
Thanks for talkin'.
[–]XavierMendel -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 1時間 前 (13子コメント)
It's made me grow to hate some things entirely that I hear far too often, even in the smash community. You can't be sexist against men, men can't be raped, kill all men, you don't get it because you're a man, men deserve (whatever), you can't say (whatever), etc. Nobody ever talks about that because nobody ever cares. Smash is too PC for people to care about their own advocating genocide and sexism, since that's not what they want to know about.
Sorry. I get annoyed by it. It's already begun since I spoke up a bit in the comments.
Edit: Apparently underscores mess up formatting. Removed those.
[–]speakingcraniums -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 1時間 前 (8子コメント)
You want to increase the amount of women playing smash, and expand the community then stop making rape jokes. It's that simple.
You make a mention of people not liking m&ms as if that's somehow relatable. And you are comparing that to someone being held down and fucked against their will. The fact that you can even equate the two in your own head shows a general lack of awareness that your words can have very traumatic reactions from some people.
No one is going to be offended by your candy choice. People will be offended if you make light of the most traumatic experience of their lives.
[–]XavierMendel 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (7子コメント)
I don't have the need to increase or decrease anyone playing anything. It's their choice what games they play. The community is there if you want to join it. If you don't want to then so be it. None of it is my problem. If the sole priority was to increase women participating I'd pay them to start playing. Ridiculous, isn't it?
It's definitely able to be related. It's called juxtaposition. It's not comparing rape to candy, it's comparing offense to offense. Perhaps you should try a bit harder and reread it?
People get offended by everything all the time. Offended by candy, the weather, the radio, space, anything. Pick a word in the dictionary: it offends someone. I don't bow to the perpetually offended who demand a world of featureless grey blobs to suit their feelz.
[–]speakingcraniums -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 1時間 前 (6子コメント)
Oh man it's so cool that you live your life in a way that does not try to respect the rights, ideas, or desires of anyone else. It's so nice that you're willing to make a moral stand over making rape jokes rather then recognize that your words hurt people and try to slightly alter your language. What sort of a horrible world would it be of everyone tried to treat one another with respect and understanding.
[–]XavierMendel 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (5子コメント)
It's cool that I live my life in a way that I don't have to avoid using the word "pregnant" because I was told it was a dirty word. It's cool I'm willing to make a moral stand over being able to read Catcher in the Rye when I was told it was written for heathens and perverts. What sort of a horrible world would it be if everyone listened to you and censored themselves and others out of a perceived slight that nobody cares one bit about.
Let's listen to all of that then, shall we? Pregnancy cannot be shown or mentioned, so I guess I Love Lucy gets cancelled after all. Water closets, what we now call bathrooms, are also banned from talk. Guess the execs behind Leave it to Beaver were right all along. "Seeing Red" is also banned, so see ya MAS*H. Blood's offensive, goodbye Dracula. Rape? That's the topic, right? It was a topic before, too. Goodbye Bible, Oddysey, and just about every other old work of fiction.
I can go on for ages. Or I can just put aside stupidity and people can not blindly censor themselves and others over hurt feelings.
[+]codsonmaty スコアが基準値未満のコメント-15ポイント-14ポイント-13ポイント 2時間 前 (24子コメント)
I mean if it's just jokes and nobody's raping anybody..?
[–]MiRIr 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前* (1子コメント)
I'm not one to be offended by rape jokes but they do contribute to creating a sleazy atmosphere. To put it simply, they can affect the general "feel" of the place.
It isn't the rape jokes themselves that make people uncomfortable, but how it lessens social standards and alters the environment around them.
[–]codsonmaty 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I can get that, I never thought of that point of view.
[–]speakingcraniums 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (2子コメント)
I think it's important to recognize that a great number of women have been raped or sexually abused in some way. Or know someone who has. When you make a rape joke you are making a joke at the expense of these people. You are in essence saying that one of the most traumatic experiences of their lives is actually a laughing matter.
How hard is it to alter your language in the slightest bit so as to not make people uncomfortable. It's not hard, and it's not only polite, it's the bare minimum one can to do to live in a society.
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
Although I disagree on the basis of what is and isn't okay to joke about with you (everything is a laughing matter), I have to agree that what goes into a joke is just as important as where and when you tell it. It's a two-way street, though, since another bare minimum requirement for living in society is being able to take a fucking joke.
It's all a balancing act.
[–]speakingcraniums [スコア非表示] 10分 前 (0子コメント)
I mean for me personally. I dont see whats so funny about holding someone down and fucking them against their will. And I have never been raped. For someone who has had that happen to them, I am sure it takes a lot of willpower to not rip out someones eyes who jokes about it.
[–]oldmoneey 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (8子コメント)
"it's just a joke bro!"
Just because it's a joke doesn't mean it's unconditionally good and appropriate.
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (7子コメント)
Just because it isn't unconditionally good and appropriate doesn't mean it's offensive. If you can't take a joke that's fine, but don't turn it into something else. If it really bothers you why not ask them to stop personally instead of telling on them with the internet?
[–]oldmoneey 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
I'm afraid I don't quite understand the point of any of what you just said. Are you saying that it's okay for anyone to say any joke in any situation, and that the only responsibility involved is for others to not be too offended? Is there even such thing as an inappropriate joke in your eyes?
[–]codsonmaty -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 42分 前 (0子コメント)
Yes and no. The only thing that makes a joke inappropriate is whoever is offended by it. Jokes by themselves aren't inappropriate unless you make it so. That's what I meant in an earlier reply to someone by saying it was a two-way street. I said here not to turn one's offense into something else, something rapey or sexist.
In one of my arguments I implied that was what someone was doing: taking their exaggerated offense at a joke too seriously and too far and taking the socially inept way out of being mad about it on the internet and letting it slide in real life. It's a lot of assumptions backed up by small clues so it's far from a perfect argument, but that's what happens when everything is doubtful from across screens.
So no, every joke is constantly appropriate and inappropriate depending on who hears it, which might sound stupid and obvious but is just a fact of jokes, which means no it's not "okay" for anyone to say any joke in any situation. I've interpreted this particular situation to be a mix of somewhat tasteless jokers and overly offended listeners that's somehow turned into misogyny, is what my point is in the end.
[–]A_Minor_Dance 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (4子コメント)
If it really bothers you why not ask them to stop personally instead of telling on them with the internet?
Then why are you here?
[–]codsonmaty 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (3子コメント)
I don't have these problems, I can take a joke.
[–]MHG_Brixby 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 43分 前 (2子コメント)
Replace it with something racist (let's say lynching, or the n word) meant as a joke(in what ever context) but offensive.
As for why didn't we speak up? You are at an event where twenty people start laughing at that. You already stand out as a minority in this place. What can you say? Speak up and be seen as an evil radical feminist for no good reason?
[–]codsonmaty 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分 前 (1子コメント)
I find racist jokes funny too, is the problem. I find 9/11 jokes and Robin Williams jokes funny. A certain part of any offensive joke is the "oo too edgy" element of it but at the end of the day they're just as meaningless as every other joke.
As for speaking up I can understand the social stigma of going against the party but I can't understand the "no good reason" bit. Isn't that the whole point? Or is all of the outrage really for "no good reason"?
Really though, speaking up in real life is going to be the main point of perceived misogyny or sexism or general "uncomfortableness" succeeding or failing. If it's all just on the internet, nothing gets done and I spend half an hour replying to posts to strangers I don't know (nothing gets done).
If you're going to be uncomfortable at an uncomfortable party, speak up or chill out. Arguing on the internet does nothing (lol).
[–]MHG_Brixby [スコア非表示] 11分 前 (0子コメント)
"No good reason" was poorly worded. Speaking up against the group in this sense leads to bigger problems. Harassment, physical danger, etc. (Not always, but the risk reward lends itself to that.)
As for talking about it online, it is something of a safe place compared to the event in question, and can help people in similar situations know they aren't alone, as well as awareness and social progress to make communities more inclusive.
[–]reddit409 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I mean if it's just the Holocaust and it's over now...?
C'mon, what are you trying to argue here.
[–]SharplyDressedSloth 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (4子コメント)
When jokes are extremely prevalent, the line between joking and seriousness starts to blur.
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (3子コメント)
Are you seriously implying that anyone who tells a rape joke is just a would-be rapist on the edge, ready to go full on?
[–]SharplyDressedSloth 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前* (1子コメント)
Holy shit that's not at all what I implied.
The problem isn't in one rape joke or one person. It's when, like I said, the jokes are extremely common. When you hear them all over the place from people you don't know in various contexts, it's hard to parse what's a joke and what's serious. It creates a culture that makes a lot of people incredibly uncomfortable.
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I can get behind that, then.
It certainly does nothing to help condemn such a behavior, if used so flippantly in conversation.
[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (3子コメント)
Then it'd be okay if I walked up to your house as a complete stranger and said I was going to murder everyone right?
It's just a joke and I wasn't actually going to do it right?
[–]codsonmaty -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 1時間 前 (2子コメント)
That's maybe the worst comparison I've ever heard.
We aren't on the same social level. As in, we didn't both go to this event/party and share no interests.
In this case the jokes were overheard, meaning the would-be rapists weren't targeting anyone but their friends.
Killing one's whole family != rape, it's not even close.
If it actually were a joke we'd be in the same spot: my family wouldn't be murdered, and nobody would be raped.
[–]A_Minor_Dance 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前* (1子コメント)
Um...you don't know that and since you're both posting on the smash sub I'd assume you both like smash? And you'd have to be a idiot to think that person meant face to face lol
"I'm going to rape you" HAHAHAHAHA SO FUNNY. it's a joke! So appropriate for every setting! I know, let's go to a big event and make rape jokes that people can overhear!
Apparently you do take everything literally.
It's just a joke though. What does it matter? The point still stands, you said as long as it's a joke it's okay. Therefore saying that as long as it's a joke it can't be offensive or a bad comparison since all it did was take what you said in a literal interpretation. Probably to mock how absurd your statement is by posting a equally absurd situation.
Doesn't make it appropriate was the point. This should be obvious but...well it's a hard concept for some people to grasp.
[–]codsonmaty 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
That doesn't make it murder/rape either. If you can't be in an inappropriate situation without sperging out you've got more serious problems than taking everything literally.
π Rendered by PID 10476 on app-355 at 2015-05-26 19:50:17.156254+00:00 running ea96837 country code: JP.
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[–]MHG_Brixby 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]codsonmaty 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]MHG_Brixby [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]reddit409 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]SharplyDressedSloth 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]SharplyDressedSloth 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]codsonmaty 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]reddit409 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]codsonmaty -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]A_Minor_Dance 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]codsonmaty 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)