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[–]fightmeirlShutupyouarewrong 183ポイント184ポイント  (24子コメント)

Wow at those dislikes. Jesus christ sometimes gamers are so fucking insecure about sexism being a real thing.

[–]GENOCIDEGeorge -15ポイント-14ポイント  (23子コメント)

[Redacted]

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread.

[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

And that makes that 18 year old boy angry. Wouldn't that make you angry?

No. I'm an unattractive female streamer. Hot girls getting more viewers than me is pretty far off the radar on the list of things that piss me off. If she suddenly stopped existing, neither me nor your hypothetical manchild would be getting more viewers.

[–]Melomaniacal 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

So the only problem (it's actually not the only problem, just the one I feel like addressing) I have with what you're saying is that you're blaming women for getting special attention because of their sex. The whole point of what was being said in the video, and by other similar activists, is that giving women special attention for something they don't have agency in is wrong. Blaming women for being women is a problem, which is exactly what you're doing.

"Being a woman while playing video games" isn't a condition that on its own leads to garnering special (negative or positive) attention. "Being a person who gives women who play video games special attention" is such a condition.

So when a woman streaming a game gets more attention than a man, you should really ask yourself who you should be frustrated with.

[–]GENOCIDEGeorge -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

[Redacted]

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread.

[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're all males who've been rejected by their social groups because they like videogames.

The victim card huh? Kind of funny how you complain about dem evil feeeemales getting all this attention yet here you are going "woe is me".

can enter their social group and be glorified for it -for no reason other than the fact that they were born a different gender.

You're right. Girls didn't start playing games until last year. Totally forgot.

Woman have been involved with games since day fucking one. Get over it. They have always been there.

Also, isn't it hypocritical to complain about being singled out for playing video games and then single out other people for playing video games?

http://esportsexpress.com/2015/03/sky-marshal-williams-warns-of-female-bug-threat/

[–]Melomaniacal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regardless of whether or not you feel that way, you are using it as an excuse for those who commit the problem. You have used it as a way to explain away the sexist behavior by those who do give women special attention, and more importantly to explain away those who, in turn, get angry at women. Maybe that's not what you meant to accomplish in your statement, but that is certainly how it came across, and starting off by self-proclaiming as anti-SJW/feminist is not doing you any favors.

I am not denying the logic behind what you have stated. I am denying that the logic is sound, or worth defending by any stretch.

So what about Jenny who is harassed and bullied because she likes video games. Then she finds makes friends with other kids who have also been bullied. They become friends, then Jenny starts getting special attention from the community she's now becoming a part of. "She's just doing it for attention; she's not a real gamer." Etc, etc, you get the point, you watched the video (I assume).

Women "belong" in their group just as much as any male does. Society telling them they don't is the problem. Society glorifying them is the problem. Society harassing them is the problem. These are things that women do not have agency in. Again, "being a woman and playing video games" is not a condition that leads to being "glorified" or harassed, or whatever else. "Being a person who glorifies or harasses women who play video games" is.

[–]skepticsquid 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wouldn't that make you angry?

No. That's pretty petty / jealous. And really if that's your main argument, that 18 year olds are jealous of casual women getting more attention than hardcore gamer guys, it doesn't really stand up to your larger stance: "anti-SJW" and "the current movement is a joke".

I consider myself a feminist for the following reason: I believe women deserve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights. Period. All that other shit is just noise.

Still though, you've expressed ideas I hadn't heard before, and were level headed for the mostpart, so thanks.

edit: a word

[–]DEATH GRIPSSapharodon 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no one "feminist movement." Feminism is a school of thought that had manifested many different approaches towards the issue, not a monolith. Tons of self-addressed feminists would disagree on many, many things. It deeeeeefinitely also exists past the boundaries of gaming too haha

But real talk here. Do you think we wanna be "glorified," (if you can even call it that), given different treatment, and constantly be let known that we'll never be seen as an equal, a serious challenge, or just another gamer? Do you think we like a world where our tits matter more than our actions, in gaming or elsewhere? Why would a girl getting more attention for that make you angry at the girl? Why wouldn't you be angry at the root cause, the people giving her attention because they like her looks, and be angry at why they decide to do so, and why culture continue to permit it time and time again? Why look at the symptom and not the disease?

The thing about feminism in gaming is, whether you like it or not, damn near nobody would stand up and be vocal, angry and willing to call out these issues otherwise. A band of people in solidarity, willing to challenge social norms, is the only way progress happens at all - and it sure as shit isn't ever spearheaded by the majority group benefiting from the current norm. That isn't even just a feminist or gaming thing, that's just a basic sociological principle that has manifested itself in history time and time again, be it about gender, race, sexuality, whatever. The problems we face are largely systemic in nature, and if women wind up being the victims in that situation, helllllllllllll yes we're gonna point that out. You decry feminism itself as a cause for this, but feminism wouldn't exist if sexism want a problem in the first place. And without feminists like Milktea being willing to speak up against this bullshit and show how it harms everybody (yeah, dudes too!), what progress we've made wouldn't have happened at all. Fuuuuuck that, I'll take a world with feminists and the occasional annoying blogger over one with no feminists at all any day.

[–]kingfroglord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further

i find it hard to believe anyone on this sub cares that much about what you said

[–]bakugoon 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

man if this thread is where your "doxxing" or "threatening" is coming from one has really got to wonder who has the victim complex that you were going on so vividly about

(if you are getting doxxed and threatened off-screen though i am sorry man. no one should have to deal with that especially since your post wasnt really that bad lol. i agreed with some of the points but i think you are a little more than mixed up as to what equality is and how it is really attained. you should read through some of the replies and sit on it a little. you are a step in the right direction. i would even label you as a somewhat of a """sjw""" of which you so lividly hate)

[–]murgatroidsp 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

For your hypothetical League of Legends streamer, I agree that it's probably human nature to feel jealous/resentful in that situation. However, that does not justify making comments along the lines of "Milktea is a harlot, she just wants attention." We need to create a culture where those comments are unacceptable, and that will never happen if we rationalize them as a nature result of jealousy.

I think your "110% anti-SJW" stance is completely unproductive. There is definitely a disconnect between most feminists and most 15 year old male gamers. A lot of the time, reasoned discussion tends to give way to name calling (SJW/feminazi, neckbeard) that only makes things worse. However, based on your first paragraph, it sounds like you're just picking a side in the name calling. Move beyond that. If you see feminists failing to reach their audience, don't "shove everything down their throats," see what you can do to bridge the communication gap.

Also: if you think the feminist movement is a mess, it makes me think you might be judging the feminist movement too much based on internet comment threads, and you might want to actually learn some about the feminist movement.

[–]EgeDal 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

TL;DR Stop positively discriminating women in gaming? Is that your point? (so the true equality will be achieved)

[–]GENOCIDEGeorge 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

[Redacted]

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread.

[–][US] sboles66sboles66 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

You really should of put some kind of summary near the end, it seemed like you rambled a bit and was kind of hard to see what you were getting at.

[–]GENOCIDEGeorge -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

[Redacted]

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread.

[–]Yeah, and the text appears here.TheCyclops 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't see evidence of doxxing but if you are being doxxed you can report that.

[–]VivoArdente 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a very fucked up system and while I'm not a misogynist, I don't hate women and I definitely do NOT agree with the way that they're treated within the gaming industry, I can definitely see why it happens. That being said, me understanding why women are treated like shit isn't exactly helping anyone, especially those women. It's something that desperately needs to stop, not only in the Smash community or even in gaming, but across the globe, but it's also something that is being perpetuated by the current feminist movement.

I don't think you understand what feminism is. You pretty much said that you're on the side of gender equality, which is pretty well the fundamental goal of feminism. There will always be extremists on a position. From angry neckbeards who think women don't belong in video games or nerd culture to women who turn to hyperbole, hypersensitivity, or sensationalism when responding to these issues.

That being said, don't confuse SJW with the ultimate goals of feminism. Feminism has been around for generations now as a movement, well outside of the realm of SJWs. I personally don't agree with much of tumblr's brand of activism or retaliation, but I am a proud feminist. That streaming situation you mentioned? Guess what, that's what feminism wants to prevent. Women (generally) don't want to be glorified or demonized for their gender presentation, but that people would stop caring and just treat the female streamers like every other male streamer. It's gender equality.

I think the way Milktea has approached it so far has been healthy, it doesn't place blame on the entire community for what's massively created by momentum and some key, oppositional members of the existing community. I think the aggressive and oversensitive still have a place in the conversation, somewhat as a balancing force to the less progressive. One side hopes to make our community a hostile place for women, one side hopes to sterilize our interactions and make the community a women's paradise overnight.

TL;DR- SJWs act in the interests of feminism, but they are far from the face of it nor the bulk feminist population.

[–]Borrillz -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

People want to watch hot girls do anything, it's part of the problem. Women are seen as a pair of boobs, an ass and a face instead of a person with feelings and needs. It's literally a part of our evolution to see sex characteristics as desired objects, and too often people get lost in that instead of seeing the person. Instead of lashing out against women, lash out against the ideals that elevate a woman's figure over her personhood.

[–]DarkLava -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread

That's a damn shame. And it's worse that this came from /r/smashbros. It kind of makes me sick that someone would go to these extreme levels of attempting to threaten you because you expressed your viewpoint on the issue.

I surely hope that it isn't the case, but if it is, then I'm sorry no one deserves that.