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AllThis Ted-Ed (youtube.com)
mrstring が 4時間 前 投稿
[–]_Sonicman_ 162ポイント163ポイント164ポイント 3時間 前* (3子コメント)
"If 16 countries are flying out to New Jersey, that's saying something."
Brilliant.
Such is the power of throwing characters off of cliffs.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 56ポイント57ポイント58ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
throwing characters off of cliffs.
I just realized the entirety of my efforts in the last 4 years can be reduced to this. Yikes, I need to go think about my life.
[–]xMrBlonde 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間 前* (1子コメント)
Youve dedicated your life to only smash for the last 4 years? You should prob go think about it
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
4 years and I'm still a Puff main. I think you're right.
[–]DandyTheLion 56ポイント57ポイント58ポイント 1時間 前 (5子コメント)
I like the non-accusatory approach that she preaches. That makes a huge difference between echo chambers and progress.
There are a lot of people that think there is nothing more to it than personal preference for what women enjoy. I think it is fair to say that personal preference does play a large role in the gender distribution.
However, there are weird things at play too. I am part of a local smash group on facebook. It surpassed the 1000 member mark several months ago and it is still growing even bigger. People post post pretty regularly and it is not uncommon for new members to make a post and introduce themselves or ask some questions. It is also pretty standard for some people to welcome them and provide more information. One time a woman made an unremarkable post like any other in the same fashion and it just exploded. Hundreds of comments roared on for several days. Those comments ranged everywhere from standard greetings and information to attention seeking, overall statements of the ridiculousness of the situation, accusations of "white knighting," insults, arguments, and a really weird popularity of the word "grill" in the comments. That sort of thing just does not happen with guys.
[–]Mephisto__ 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I especially agree with your comment about the non-accusatory approach. When people accuse, it only places shame on those who have acted wrongly and gimps the ability to resolve a problem. With the tone she uses she manages to make people understand the plight of female gamers and empathize with their problems.
[–]TazdingoBan [スコア非表示] 8分 前 (0子コメント)
So my friend works with kids. Every day, he'd bring in a basket of blue scissors for a project. The scissors don't attract much attention, because they're all the same.
Over time, some scissors had to be replaced. Now there are a few green pairs of scissors in the mix. This causes complete and utter chaos. The kids fight over the green scissors. They cause so much excitement and strife.
It's the damnedest thing.
[–]Evsen [スコア非表示] 8分 前 (0子コメント)
Didn't that post just get attention because it was pretty clear it wasn't someones real Facebook account who genuinely wanted to play instead was just a fake account made by some unknown member of the community?
I didn't participate in the conversation so I may be remembering wrong but, I thought that is why it got so many comments and drama. This was also at the time people were often creating fake joke accounts to do that sort of thing.
[–]roboticphish [スコア非表示] 8分 前 (0子コメント)
Ahh, minnesota.
[–]skeithhunter [スコア非表示] 4分 前 (0子コメント)
Grill
Ah, the twitch chatters have appeared. Pogchamp.
[–]pianopigboy 79ポイント80ポイント81ポイント 3時間 前 (6子コメント)
Great talk. I think some pretty big strides were made for women in Smash last weekend. Not only did Villyness win Smash 4 at Bam 7 (Biggest Smash tournament ever won by a women AFAIK, 160 entrants) But Tetraflora got 4th in PM at Shuffle VII.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 39ポイント40ポイント41ポイント 3時間 前 (3子コメント)
Can't wait till I'm older so I can travel to my own local tournaments to represent women more. i really want to get more gals into smash.
[–]ReallyCreative 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
I feel like this is the best attitude to have. The best outreach for women is going to come from other women, it's just the way these things work.
I only started following the LoL competitive scene after I learned two LCS players were gay. While they have long since been relegated and retired, my interest has stayed, and I follow League religiously.
It's not enough to eliminate sexism, there has to also be an effort to bring more women into gaming, and other women are probably the best at knowing how to do that.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
I promote the shit out of Smash and general gaming to my female buds, and it's actually worked, lots have shown genuine interest, the reason gals don't game isn't because they don't like it.
I don't think women are being discriminated from gaming in this modern day but in the past they have, the "men only can play" mentality is gone but it's just unfortunate that after that stigma went the segregated thing still stuck. Like, if I asked my girlfriends if they'd feel like they're not allowed to play games or whatever, they'd definitely say no, but they just don't see other females who play games so it's not something they're used to. I'm sure with the influence and this current generation we can promote it. It's exciting to think about.
[–]AnnTauz [スコア非表示] 10分 前 (0子コメント)
I'm so happy when there's not just thousand comments of dudes saying in a post why it's bad to have women at this events or else. Seeing them comenting along how they live this and want to repair this problem seems better and less frustating than people just complaining like old senile people
[–]rayzorium 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Did Smash 4 get streamed at all?
[–]Mywhy [スコア非表示] 7分 前 (0子コメント)
Tetra is a girl?
[–]fightmeirlShutupyouarewrong 185ポイント186ポイント187ポイント 3時間 前 (138子コメント)
Wow at those dislikes. Jesus christ sometimes gamers are so fucking insecure about sexism being a real thing.
[–]JusticeJanitor 120ポイント121ポイント122ポイント 3時間 前 (4子コメント)
The weird thing is that she is talking about it in a way that I would think most gamers would be on board with. By not dismissing or antagonizing gamers in general. You know, being willing to enter a discussion and not throw shit and each other.
[–]BaiersmannBaiersdorf 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 1時間 前 (2子コメント)
The only thing that matters is the headline. Always.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 50分 前 (1子コメント)
The headline has the word "empathy" in it, which I imagine is a concept a lot of the downvoters take issue with
[–]BuiltTheSkyForMyDawn [スコア非表示] 9分 前 (0子コメント)
Maybe also a woman talking about sexism in gaming, feel that's a huuuuuuge attractor right thurr.
[–]AnnTauz [スコア非表示] 9分 前 (0子コメント)
Let's not forget that is youtube, and its comments aren't usually posted by the most brilliant or even logical people
[–]0rangJuice 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Yeah I was really surprised to see all the dislikes. I instantly though that maybe all Ted-Ed videos are like this but that is nowhere near the case.
[–]Enkanel 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 2時間 前 (1子コメント)
That might be part of the reason behind it, this is a short Ted Talk, not a Ted Ed and have no place on this particular channel.
I don't know for sure, that's just an hypothesis ^^'
[–]Chockrit 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
If you look on the description there's a full video.
[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
Jesus christ sometimes gamers are so fucking insecure about sexism being a real thing
http://cargocollective.com/eliz/Manic-Pixel-Dream-Girl
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 55分 前 (0子コメント)
Wow this is really cool thank you for linking this.
[–]Leviair 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
Doesn't help that comments were disabled. Some people will dislike out of principle because of that.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 53ポイント54ポイント55ポイント 3時間 前 (60子コメント)
The whole of reddit like to believe sexism isn't a thing. It sucks ass.
[–]Estebanzo 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 2時間 前* (3子コメント)
The dislike thing and the fact that they had to disable comments is just embarrassing. Never seen that many dislikes on a TED video, despite some taking on other controversial topics (religion, race, etc.) It just makes the gaming community look bad. Look, I get that people that get upset about over-the-top SJW/white knighting. But this video doesn't seem like that at all, and overall she highlights her experience as being positive in the end.
It's just additional evidence that the extreme "anti- SJW" rage people get into is an unjustified over-reaction.The real solution is to just stop being assholes towards minorities in the gaming community.
[–]drake210 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Hell, in the beginning she kinda calls out people for white knighting.
[–]tabularaja 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 49分 前 (1子コメント)
She's not a good speaker and that speech was boring as hell. People aren't going to upvote just because she's a woman, and they shouldn't
[–]reddit409 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 26分 前 (0子コメント)
... or they'll upvote it because it's got some worthy content in it. But choose to see it how you will.
[–]Jinno 40ポイント41ポイント42ポイント 2時間 前 (10子コメント)
I don't know that it's that reddit doesn't believe sexism is a thing. We acknowledge it fairly often as a community, I think the problem is that we don't react as cohesively as we should to female-affected sexism as we do male-affected sexism.
Things like /r/MensRights became a thing because we're a predominantly male community, and issues like divorce, false rape accusations, and child custody disputes were constantly upvoted because of numbers that seemed to disproportionately favor women, and the majority of our audience was potentially affected by that. It started to become a cognitive bias to this community, and it made us a little more sexist toward women as a whole, I think, which is bad, because a lot of the early reddit users tend to be of the demographic that is more often rejected by women and are more cynical as a result.
It's very easy to see and point out female-affected sexism. To the point where it's almost become a joke for us, which only furthers the belittling of the problem. The problem is that I don't know that many of the men engaging in these behaviors fully understand that it's creepy, or misogynistic. (Except for dick pics... I'll never understand how that became a thing, or how anyone could think than an unsolicited picture of their genitalia is a good thing.) That gif that gets posted of a female with a bunch of sausages thrown at her face? That's exactly the kind of thing that I'm talking about. That gif became a meme with the realization that any time a pretty woman posts on reddit, she's going to get an influx of uncomfortable messages.
There's an ebb and flow to male and female relationships, and there's a big portion of the reddit community that doesn't understand how that works, and oversteps the boundaries too soon, and it makes people on either side uncomfortable. Talking about it raises awareness, and is going to make people think a little more about how to handle it better. But overall, it's something that will continue to be a problem for some time.
[–]BigBadGodzillaDick 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間 前 (9子コメント)
this isnt misogyny LMAO, its just socially awkward dudes trying to flirt, and the problem is that there is an absurd number of them on reddit so when a female posts they get bombarded by them. yes, this sort of stuff should be talked about but /r/smashbros isnt the place at all unless its in situations like this.
[–]Jinno 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間 前 (6子コメント)
You're right. I typed stream of consciousness. The misogyny tends to come as the result of the 50:1 guy to girl ratio, and awkward guys who get rejected multiple times seeing fit to spurn women in general. Saying that they're "just looking for attention", or "aren't really gamers". That tends to be the misogynistic portion of responses women would receive on reddit and in other online communities.
[–]Lolsgod 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 35分 前 (0子コメント)
Well the sending stuff isn't misogyny. That by definition isn't misogyny.
Its distrust or hatred of women. Talking to a girl seems to reflect the opposite.
I wouldn't even say that them responding negatively falls under misogyny more of just them reacting poorly or being bad with rejection.
The looking for a attention, and "you're not a real gamer" are definitely somewhere on that spectrum but I wouldn't say its the worst of the worst
[–]BigBadGodzillaDick 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 58分 前 (4子コメント)
well that is actual misogyny, but i havent ever seen anyone in our community say that sort of shit and not get called out for it. the only place these people have where they can say stuff like that is messages but people can block eachother, and if it gets bad to the point you are followed into tournaments and shit, just start using a throwaway (like i do) and report the person to the TO or authorities. i'v never witnessed this before, but its certainly possible it can happen yet its easy to do something about if you talk to the right people.
[–]JibYrale 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 33分 前 (1子コメント)
this isnt misogyny LMAO, its just socially awkward dudes trying to flirt
The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
[–]l5555l 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (43子コメント)
No they dont, they just make fun of the people who act like it's worse than it is and that anything and everything is sexist.
[–]2578-3796-0787 / NNID: highkai5benoxxxx 18ポイント19ポイント20ポイント 2時間 前 (17子コメント)
Depends who you talk to really. There are definitely a few who act like it doesn't exist.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 24ポイント25ポイント26ポイント 2時間 前 (7子コメント)
A few?
[–]2578-3796-0787 / NNID: highkai5benoxxxx 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 2時間 前 (6子コメント)
As in, less than the majority - yes, a few. But still a lot. There are definitely countless more who react to it in a less than favourable way, but less so those who deny the existence entirely. Both are pretty harmful groups of people.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 2時間 前 (5子コメント)
That's an awfully politically correct way of putting it.
[–]2578-3796-0787 / NNID: highkai5benoxxxx 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 1時間 前 (4子コメント)
Well, the way I see it, you have the ones that are like - 'Sexism doesn't exist, stop looking for reasons to be offended, stop attention seeking, blah blah blah'. These people often get downvoted, and aren't really the biggest problem because everyone can see that they're fucking idiots.
Then you get people who are like 'Yes, sexism exists - but, but, but, excuses, excuses, excuses'. These apologists often get upvoted, and in a way that's more harmful, because it makes people think that it's acceptable to belittle important messages about equality. This is the primary bulk of Reddit's sexism, in my eyes.
[–]oldmoneey 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
No, they make fun of pretty much any accusation of sexism. Sort of like the first part of what you said, the argument is that it's "not a big deal" rather than "it's not sexist". And the reason why is that these people have a bizarre aggression towards anything they perceive as being associated with feminism. Like you can make a joke about women being stupid and irrational and people will defend you to their last breath, yet they all calmly agree that to say such a joke about an ethnic minority is totally inappropriate. If you address this issue, you're an SJW.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 2時間 前 (20子コメント)
You're probably one of those people that do this because anyone who's not involved in this can clearly see that a lot of reddit feels the world is perfect as it is, that we don't need activists and promoters of rights. It's only when a dire extreme event happens in the world when suddenly it's okay to be an activist, or something to do with war. It's either the extremes or nothing, we can never stand up for the things that are relatively small but still occurring, otherwise it's an "overreaction".
Reddit likes to think that when they shame people for being feminists they're doing it because the feminists are "exaggerating" the situation but most of the time they just don't like the social change happening around them. Feminists on Reddit are called SJWs and tumblrinas for standing up to legitimate issues they care about, and this new fad of shunning the activists is a really rapidly growing one (see: /r/TumblrInAction) and worrying thing, because this side of Reddit are not trying to get rid of the extremist feminists, they're trying to get rid of activists altogether, and denying that issues are happening is simply wrong.
Side note, TiA used to be pretty good at identifying the real extremist activists but recently anyone who opens their mouth about social issues is called a SJW there.
[–]xXDankMemeLordXx 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 2時間 前 (15子コメント)
Is TiA really that bad? I'm pretty sure it still only pokes fun at the extremists.
[–]Borrillz 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
It's pretty much just a huge anti-sjw echo chamber. Some of the posts lampooned there actually have some merit, but taking any of the content as legitimate discussion material is very frowned upon by most voters.
Obviously there's a time and a place for discussing social issues, but when you're critiquing material on feminist tumblr blogs you should be willing to discuss the other half of the equation even if you disagree.
I finally left TiA when I realized the large majority of people aren't at all interested in the social inequalities that matter, they just want to make fun of a group of ideals with likeminded peers.
[–]xXDankMemeLordXx 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
Well there is /r/TiADiscussion, but I haven't taken a good look at it, so I don't know how good or bad it is.
[–]Borrillz 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I just subbed, at first read it seems like it's only representing one side of the ideals and analyzing why tumblr extremests think the way they do. I'm happy though, this is a step above TiA because at least they try to empathize with and understand people!
[–]fuck 20xxbillpika 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Once it went past 10k subscribers, it turned into a shitfest where very little good discussion takes place.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (5子コメント)
That used to be the premise but it's gradually just people getting angry over change and people that have thick enough skin to stand up for what they believe in. Don't get me wrong, some of it is still mocking extremists and the half that is overreactions are called out most of the time, but still, the fact that it's still there and growing is worrying.
[–]intellos 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Its the same problem that exists in every "satirical" reactionary community. At first its just people poking fun at the extremists of a particular viewpoint. However what ends up happening is the the extremists from the other side go "Hey! This seems like a community of like minded individuals! I'm going to hang out here!" Slowly but surely, places that start out as joke-filled havens of moderate sanity are txaken over by crazy people.
It happens in all of these communities. It happened to SRS. It is happening to TIA. Its happened to SRD like 3 times over. Its not even unique to reddit. Look at how people are complaining about the polarization of politics.
Its basically the Eternal September of Everything. It all turns into a never ending hate-tantrum on both sides, eternally reinforcing itself.
[–]xXDankMemeLordXx 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前 (3子コメント)
So the subreddit that was once dedicated to making fun of extremist-SJWs is becoming a subreddit for extremist-AntiSJWs?
He who fights monsters, I guess.
[–]El_Pesado 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 45分 前 (0子コメント)
I used to like TiA, I still agree with the Mods but it has become increasingly worse at identifying trolls. Shitty community too
[–]Lolsgod 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 29分 前 (0子コメント)
I surf that page often. Its not really all about being anti-sjw because they go after MGTOW and other stupid right wing groups too.
It's really about making the ridiculous justifications people try to make over things.
We don't harass people, in fact the number one rule is to never EVER contact anyone shown in a post.
This is a pretty uninformed opinion from whoever is telling you its this type of movement.
[–]silverhydra 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 28分 前 (0子コメント)
It's about half way there. The comment sections used to be full of pretty good discussion but have recently has become a lot more circlejerky; I imagine for any comments section it used to be 80% productive posts and is now 10% productive, 10% holier-than-thou speeches, 70% circlejerking, and then a few other random comments.
I wouldn't say the sub is full of extremist-AntiSJWs though, at least not at the moment, but too circlejerky to get anything productive out of it. That, and /r/Tumblratrest is a bit too dead to be an alternative. :(
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Didn't they at one point have instructions in their sidebar on how to actually search for things on tumblr that you know will piss you off? They're not exactly the most reasonable people.
[–]silverhydra 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分 前 (0子コメント)
I recall there being a list of tags that you could search for to find submittable content, like searching the otherkin tag to try and find things. Don't think the mods ever advocated or even condoned redditors from interacting with tumblrites but it isn't like mods have power or authority on users when they go to other websites.
[–]Buizbuiz [スコア非表示] 5分 前 (0子コメント)
That's the point of the subreddit, though. To find these crazy people and show their stupidity.
[–]Melee ElitistDahaka_plays_Halo [スコア非表示] 14分 前 (0子コメント)
That entire subreddit has basically become /r/antifeminism.
[–]l5555l 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (3子コメント)
I literally never comment on things having to do with gender issues. Obviously you wouldn't know that, but I'm still not sure why you think I'm sexist for pointing out that most of reddit is sarcastic. Or they would at least appear to be.
[–]show me your boobs!mothernaturer 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
You were defending these people. why would you if you haven't done this before? It just seems really strange.
people who act like it's worse than it is and that anything and everything is sexist.
I've seldom seen these type of people on reddit or anything other than tumblr, and Reddit isn't complaining about tumblr only, they're complaining about people on here. Their motives are not clean at all.
Plus idk why anything said in these situations would be "sarcastic".
[–]l5555l 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
The people on tumblr are the ones people on reddit make fun of. That's exactly what I'm talking about.
And I'm not defending "them." I just think it's ridiculous to call all of reddit sexist.
I'm done defending myself to you. I'm not sexist, never have been, I have no reason to be.
[–]Estebanzo 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間 前 (2子コメント)
Have you experience significant harassment before because of your gender, race, or sexual orientation? I'm pretty sure you don't have any claim to be able to say whether or not sexism is a problem, and how big of a problem it is, unless you deal with it on a regular basis. There's women who have posted chat logs, etc. of what they deal with on a daily basis, and it's pretty shitty and disgusting stuff. I don't see how calling people out for that is "acting like it's worse than it is," especially when it's based off of people's actual experiences.
Pretending it's not a problem when the evidence points to the contrary is willful ignorance.
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I don't deal with any kind of harassment because of my gender, race, or sexual orientation on a regular basis but I am pretty confident that sexism is a problem.
[–]corigames 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分 前 (0子コメント)
I'm a trans girl and I have faced harassment before. I claim that it's not a problem in the smash community or the gaming community in general.
Is it not a problem now that I've said this?
[–]Mexicanfood_and_feet [スコア非表示] 5分 前 (0子コメント)
Lmao reddit has sexism stitches wedged in their panties. It is the complete opposite, and sucks ass yes
[–]stayawakejude 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
SEXISM? FEMALES? WHAT?
[+]reddit_is_meh スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10ポイント-9ポイント-8ポイント 3時間 前 (33子コメント)
Yes, because the only reason to dislike something is being insecure about sexism being real.
[–]JibYrale 33ポイント34ポイント35ポイント 3時間 前 (2子コメント)
It's not, but that's why they're doing it. Let's not play games here.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 3時間 前 (15子コメント)
Then why did this deserve dislikes?
[–]Pudgetalks 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (14子コメント)
We won't know since we're in this beautiful little ivory tower and the Comment section is blocked off. How are two opposing groups meant to argue over something when they are given no middle-ground where they don't feel threatened to talk.
[–]Kriegzilla 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 2時間 前 (6子コメント)
You say that like the comment section probably wasn't/wouldn't be filled with random hateful garbage.
[–]NNID: SpaceMSiluikatl -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 2時間 前 (5子コメント)
You say that like it's the only type of comments we would see.
[–]intellos 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
Let's be fair, this is the YouTube comment section we're talking about. Its not known for being a shining bastion of intellectual discourse.
[–]NNID: SpaceMSiluikatl 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
And I'm not arguing that, we all know it. What I'm saying is that it's a comment section after all and, belive it or not, not all people commenting are assholes.
[–]A_Fhaol_Bhig 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Look for any similar video and look at the comments. Prove /u/Kriegzilla wrong.
[–]Kriegzilla 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah, exactly. There's a reason there's the constant mantra of "don't read the comments" on the rest of the internet, let alone Youtube (which is a special level of shit commenting).
[–]NNID: SpaceMSiluikatl 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yes, we all know YouTube is famous for being plagued with shitty comments, but to think that there would be nothing but shitty nonsense comments with no place for actual civil discussion there is to exaggerate. Specially in a channel like TED-Ed, which was 1.2 million subscribers and basically gathers people that are fond of knowledge and learning, people potentially capable of sparking discussion and giving insightful comments. Again, I know how much of a shitfest the comment section of YouTube is, but that doesn't mean that good discussion can't and don't take place in it.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (6子コメント)
Is this not a middle ground for discussion? There are downvotes, but I stopped paying attention to that a while ago. Just speak your mind and be respectful.
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2時間 前 (5子コメント)
this really isn't, I'll give an example, 4chan users would never post here, and most of the anti social justice crowd hangs around there, so you get very few of their opinions. 4chan has the same problem, where most reddit users wouldn't dare go on /ssbg/ so they don't have the more social justice oriented opinions being given over there. you generally just end up with two pointless circle jerks on opposite sides of the spectrum.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2時間 前 (3子コメント)
Is /ssbg/ what I think it is? I never knew there was a smash general board.
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
a general thread on the /vg/ board
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
Oh damn, I thought it had its own section. I'm not too sure a thread on 4 chan is the best place for discussion either, it seems to linear to house more than 1 on going discussion.
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's basically a social and looking for games thread. not really a discussion
[–]reddit_is_meh 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
namedropping
[–]El_Pesado 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 50分 前 (0子コメント)
Why the fuck are you being disliked so much? Is Smashbros being brigaded by SJWs?
[–]skwaag5233 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (11子コメント)
Did the people downvoting this comment even watch the talk? This is the kind of accusatory behavior that milktea does not want in the discussion of sexism in gaming. /u/reddit_is_meh is right, there are reasons to dislike something aside from an insecurity about sexist behavior.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間 前 (5子コメント)
In this particular video, why did it deserve to be disliked at all?
[–]DPSisBad 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
The speaker was very much high school report levels of speaking.
She was overly defensive of sexist gamers, she in general didn't take a very extreme, or even biased opinion, so that could make the hardcore feminists dislike it.
The video itself came off as shallow with a small amount of anecdotal evidence that really had nothing compelling us into this subject further. She only cites a couple of destructive comments, and then tells us about this continuing perpetually, rather than her showing a huge list of these discussions so that we know the issue is massive.
To say that it was a video without any flaws is foolish, but none of those flaws made me dislike it, or even hold an opinion that it was bad, but let's not pretend that was some ground breaking shit for the century that is only worthy of praise, and fuck the sexist pigs for disliking it.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Nothing you said was wrong, but that's still not worthy of an almost 50:50 like:dislike ratio.
[–]skwaag5233 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Are you asking me in particular? I liked the video. And as far as I know maybe /u/reddit_is_meh liked it and maybe he didn't. Not everyone has to justify why they liked or didn't like something to the internet, especially if they didn't come across the video from this reddit thread.
Moreover, no video "deserves" to be liked or disliked. EVERY video gets dislikes and I never see anyone in the threads for Tafo Talk's being "why did [this video] deserve to be disliked at all?". I'm sure a lot of the dislikes are from sexist gamers or gamers who are insecure but I am not going to sit here and pretend that anyone who dislikes or disagrees with a female speaker talking about sexism may not have a point.
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (1子コメント)
So you're saying it was disliked for no reason, then?
This video is special because it tackles sexism in video gaming (and on the Internet), in what I thought was, a very neutral and non antagonizing manner. But instead, it has 500 likes and 400 dislikes. You are correct that there are plenty of videos that have dislikes simply because people dislike shot on YouTube, it's never that amount unless a group of people don't agree with the content in that said video.
What in proposing is that the video was disliked so heavily because people like to ignore the presence of sexism, or they don't believe it happens at all.
[–]skwaag5233 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
No I am not saying it was disliked for no reason. I am saying that there probably are people who disliked the video for legitimate reasons and to pretend there aren't is childish and misses the point of the talk. I'm NOT denying that there are dislikes from sexist or insecure users. What I AM saying is that is not necessarily everyone.
[–]Arsenal7X 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 2時間 前 (4子コメント)
there are reasons to dislike something aside from an insecurity about sexist behavior.
We're waiting for someone to list them.
[–]Lolsgod 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18分 前 (3子コメント)
-Poor speaking
-Poor argument
-Logical fallacy
-Framing Effect
I can continue.
I'm not talking about this video in particular, I honestly think some people are just really tired of hearing about the subject in general.
Its like a reddit joke at this point, its beaten to death.
[–]Arsenal7X [スコア非表示] 5分 前 (2子コメント)
Was there even an argument being made? I'm pretty sure it was just her saying what she experienced.
[–]Lolsgod [スコア非表示] 2分 前 (1子コメント)
Clearly she's trying to make the point that it sucks in her opinion to be a woman in gaming.
Anecdotes are often used to make an argument.
[–]Arsenal7X [スコア非表示] たった今 (0子コメント)
I'm struggling to see her actually making an argument. Most TED talks are just people telling stories, not persuasive pieces.
[–]whittlemedownz 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm so glad they disabled comments on the video. People can be such ignoramuses.
[–]gm4 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 42分 前* (2子コメント)
I'm not sure about this sub, but the reason you find this on reddit is that there are very big communities of hardcore gamers on here that find identity in them. Basically, I've thought about this sexism issue hard all year and it really boils down to some women finally entering the gaming crowd and demanding that their feelings not be hurt, and are shocked at the power of anonymity, something most gamers have been dealing with for over 15 years at least. I know there are people who freak out and say nasty things to girls, but these are lonely small-minded idiots who really don't deserve all this attention. I am berated heavily at some point every day and see it as a consequence of idiots and competition. I think what throws people off is that in almost all areas of this debate women want to be "safe" and "free from ridicule" while men either forced to dish it back or ignore it, lest they be called a coward. Anyway I think that's the most academic way I can describe this idiotic movement.
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 30分 前 (1子コメント)
I bet you don't consider yourself sexist either despite stating that you believe that almost all women are overly sensitive and weak while almost all men are thick-skinned and durable.
[–]gm4 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18分 前* (0子コメント)
No, I am just using my 15 year experience in this realm to notice that there have never really been "harassment" campaigns to notice on the part of the male gaming community. You are the one somehow thinking I am saying all women are like this, I said the spaces where the debate is that no one should have their feelings hurt are spearheaded by women. I don't think all women are like this, there are tons of women just playing and not worrying about school-yard comments. I'm just talking about the arguments I hear, and you know, when you actually look into them. I may in fact be slightly sexist, but I don't use my bias to make points. This is simply observation, and if my long exposure to the communities isn't worth shit to anyone, so be it, continue to be bewildered.
Not to mention, one of the things almost welcomed by people who started online gaming was the lack of societal constraints. Now it seems that these new movements want all of the polite-ness people are forced to use in public to be the case on the internet, when for so long it was a place to let everything go.
[+]GENOCIDEGeorge スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14ポイント-13ポイント-12ポイント 2時間 前* (23子コメント)
[Redacted]
I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further, so I'm deleting everything I've posted in this thread.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
And that makes that 18 year old boy angry. Wouldn't that make you angry?
No. I'm an unattractive female streamer. Hot girls getting more viewers than me is pretty far off the radar on the list of things that piss me off. If she suddenly stopped existing, neither me nor your hypothetical manchild would be getting more viewers.
[–]Melomaniacal 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 2時間 前* (3子コメント)
So the only problem (it's actually not the only problem, just the one I feel like addressing) I have with what you're saying is that you're blaming women for getting special attention because of their sex. The whole point of what was being said in the video, and by other similar activists, is that giving women special attention for something they don't have agency in is wrong. Blaming women for being women is a problem, which is exactly what you're doing.
"Being a woman while playing video games" isn't a condition that on its own leads to garnering special (negative or positive) attention. "Being a person who gives women who play video games special attention" is such a condition.
So when a woman streaming a game gets more attention than a man, you should really ask yourself who you should be frustrated with.
[–]skepticsquid 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Wouldn't that make you angry?
No. That's pretty petty / jealous. And really if that's your main argument, that 18 year olds are jealous of casual women getting more attention than hardcore gamer guys, it doesn't really stand up to your larger stance: "anti-SJW" and "the current movement is a joke".
I consider myself a feminist for the following reason: I believe women deserve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights. Period. All that other shit is just noise.
Still though, you've expressed ideas I hadn't heard before, and were level headed for the mostpart, so thanks.
edit: a word
[–]DEATH GRIPSSapharodon 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
There is no one "feminist movement." Feminism is a school of thought that had manifested many different approaches towards the issue, not a monolith. Tons of self-addressed feminists would disagree on many, many things. It deeeeeefinitely also exists past the boundaries of gaming too haha
But real talk here. Do you think we wanna be "glorified," (if you can even call it that), given different treatment, and constantly be let known that we'll never be seen as an equal, a serious challenge, or just another gamer? Do you think we like a world where our tits matter more than our actions, in gaming or elsewhere? Why would a girl getting more attention for that make you angry at the girl? Why wouldn't you be angry at the root cause, the people giving her attention because they like her looks, and be angry at why they decide to do so, and why culture continue to permit it time and time again? Why look at the symptom and not the disease?
The thing about feminism in gaming is, whether you like it or not, damn near nobody would stand up and be vocal, angry and willing to call out these issues otherwise. A band of people in solidarity, willing to challenge social norms, is the only way progress happens at all - and it sure as shit isn't ever spearheaded by the majority group benefiting from the current norm. That isn't even just a feminist or gaming thing, that's just a basic sociological principle that has manifested itself in history time and time again, be it about gender, race, sexuality, whatever. The problems we face are largely systemic in nature, and if women wind up being the victims in that situation, helllllllllllll yes we're gonna point that out. You decry feminism itself as a cause for this, but feminism wouldn't exist if sexism want a problem in the first place. And without feminists like Milktea being willing to speak up against this bullshit and show how it harms everybody (yeah, dudes too!), what progress we've made wouldn't have happened at all. Fuuuuuck that, I'll take a world with feminists and the occasional annoying blogger over one with no feminists at all any day.
[–]kingfroglord 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I don't want to be doxxed or threatened any further
i find it hard to believe anyone on this sub cares that much about what you said
[–]bakugoon 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前* (0子コメント)
man if this thread is where your "doxxing" or "threatening" is coming from one has really got to wonder who has the victim complex that you were going on so vividly about
(if you are getting doxxed and threatened off-screen though i am sorry man. no one should have to deal with that especially since your post wasnt really that bad lol. i agreed with some of the points but i think you are a little more than mixed up as to what equality is and how it is really attained. you should read through some of the replies and sit on it a little. you are a step in the right direction. i would even label you as a somewhat of a """sjw""" of which you so lividly hate)
[–]murgatroidsp 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
For your hypothetical League of Legends streamer, I agree that it's probably human nature to feel jealous/resentful in that situation. However, that does not justify making comments along the lines of "Milktea is a harlot, she just wants attention." We need to create a culture where those comments are unacceptable, and that will never happen if we rationalize them as a nature result of jealousy.
I think your "110% anti-SJW" stance is completely unproductive. There is definitely a disconnect between most feminists and most 15 year old male gamers. A lot of the time, reasoned discussion tends to give way to name calling (SJW/feminazi, neckbeard) that only makes things worse. However, based on your first paragraph, it sounds like you're just picking a side in the name calling. Move beyond that. If you see feminists failing to reach their audience, don't "shove everything down their throats," see what you can do to bridge the communication gap.
Also: if you think the feminist movement is a mess, it makes me think you might be judging the feminist movement too much based on internet comment threads, and you might want to actually learn some about the feminist movement.
[–]EgeDal 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前* (4子コメント)
TL;DR Stop positively discriminating women in gaming? Is that your point? (so the true equality will be achieved)
[–]GENOCIDEGeorge 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 2時間 前* (3子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
You really should of put some kind of summary near the end, it seemed like you rambled a bit and was kind of hard to see what you were getting at.
[–]VivoArdente 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's a very fucked up system and while I'm not a misogynist, I don't hate women and I definitely do NOT agree with the way that they're treated within the gaming industry, I can definitely see why it happens. That being said, me understanding why women are treated like shit isn't exactly helping anyone, especially those women. It's something that desperately needs to stop, not only in the Smash community or even in gaming, but across the globe, but it's also something that is being perpetuated by the current feminist movement.
I don't think you understand what feminism is. You pretty much said that you're on the side of gender equality, which is pretty well the fundamental goal of feminism. There will always be extremists on a position. From angry neckbeards who think women don't belong in video games or nerd culture to women who turn to hyperbole, hypersensitivity, or sensationalism when responding to these issues.
That being said, don't confuse SJW with the ultimate goals of feminism. Feminism has been around for generations now as a movement, well outside of the realm of SJWs. I personally don't agree with much of tumblr's brand of activism or retaliation, but I am a proud feminist. That streaming situation you mentioned? Guess what, that's what feminism wants to prevent. Women (generally) don't want to be glorified or demonized for their gender presentation, but that people would stop caring and just treat the female streamers like every other male streamer. It's gender equality.
I think the way Milktea has approached it so far has been healthy, it doesn't place blame on the entire community for what's massively created by momentum and some key, oppositional members of the existing community. I think the aggressive and oversensitive still have a place in the conversation, somewhat as a balancing force to the less progressive. One side hopes to make our community a hostile place for women, one side hopes to sterilize our interactions and make the community a women's paradise overnight.
TL;DR- SJWs act in the interests of feminism, but they are far from the face of it nor the bulk feminist population.
[–]One_Lurker -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 17分 前 (0子コメント)
Sorry I was born a male and oppress women with having a dick.
Seriously, everywhere I go women are more than welcome to join. I don't fucking care whatever you have between your legs. However it pisses me off immensely when people like you decide that ALL male gamers are part of this.
Insults appear often online, to EVERYONE. For a threat to a woman, there are threats to men. But you don't give a shit about that, do you? Because we are THE OPPRESSORS HURR DURR!
Just play the fucking game. We won't treat you differently, but don't pretend a red carpet just because you have two X chromosomes.
[–]HankeringHankering 62ポイント63ポイント64ポイント 3時間 前 (18子コメント)
I'm impressed with her public speaking skills considering she mentioned that she said was super apprehensive about public speaking early in the talk.
[–]Lazir 87ポイント88ポイント89ポイント 2時間 前 (17子コメント)
I actually thought her speaking was awful. She keeps doing the teenage upwards inflection at the end of her sentences that makes everything seem like a question. You can tell she's nervous or apprehensive or something.
[–]Spammalanche 81ポイント82ポイント83ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Agreed. Good message, weak presentation.
Still, sucking at something is the first step to being good at something!
[–]Jebobek 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
You also have to consider the audience when making these presentations, and she is talking to mostly youth. She is speaking on their level, but still being herself so it does not get picked up as condescending. I'm curious whether her speech pattern changes if her audience would change. If not, oh well, she's young and has plenty of time to improve!
[–]Spammalanche 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 42分 前 (0子コメント)
I dunno, even if I were back in high school, I'd still think she was kind of sucky at presenting. Her posture isn't great and her body language lacks confidence. All the upwards inflection at the ends of her sentences doesn't help: it actually hurts her presentation because to me it seems like she's asking rhetorical questions with obvious answers over and over again. If I were in high school, I'd be a little bothered by the fact that she thinks I'm so dumb that she has to present to me in such a way.
Like I said, great message, and practice makes perfect. She just doesn't seem very practiced.
[–]Vypur 46ポイント47ポイント48ポイント 2時間 前 (1子コメント)
Not AWEFUL by normal standards, it was okay, but I agree she is by no means a great speaker.
[–]TheSmashPosterGuy 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Well put.
[–]mysticrudnin 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 2時間 前 (1子コメント)
Uptalk is not limited to teenagers.
[–]Lazir 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
Apparently.
[–]SchAmToo 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
iunno, I give her more credit for being first time talking to something like this, the issue of how gamers treat "pro-women-gamers", and her being shy. All that considered, i'd be nervous as hell too.
She did super well given all that. Always room for improvement tho.
[–]HankeringHankering 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
True, though I personally am awful at public speaking and I use a lot of fillers like ums and uhs. I didn't notice her doing any of that which is impressive.
[–]spsseano 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think part of that could have been because she was speaking to a younger audience.
[–]HopefulApplicant 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
This is what you're talking about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal
[–]anothershittyalt 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
While some gamers are intentionally malicious, some may not even realize that they're perpetuating sexist behaviours in the first place. Empathizing with these gamers is more productive than outright dismissing them.
Gonna have to love this quote pretty much forever now.
EDIT: added context
[–]Swamptrooper 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I have a female friend in my high school who loves playing smash with me and my friends. She learned how to play before I knew her and she really liked it. Never have I seen blatant disproval of her, as a female, playing smash.
[–]MarzipanMagentakrayons 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Enjoyed listening to her talk about sexism in gaming communities.
Sometimes when you've been immersed in an environment for long enough, it can be hard to differentiate between harmful behaviors and normal ones.
I can completely agree with this, due to experiencing this first hand (not Smash, but still game related). I used to frequent a card store, and picked up some games with some guys there every now and then. I even ended up picking up some of their habits, like saying phrases like "your bitch" or "___ deck is gay". My sister didn't really approve of my choice in words, and neither did I once I thought about how frequent they were used at the store. So I stopped asking my sister to drive me there, cause I knew she wasn't comfortable hearing things like that.
[–]drake210 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 3時間 前 (6子コメント)
Is this milktea?
edit: She said she is part way through.
[–]fuck 20xxbillpika 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 1時間 前 (3子コメント)
its me ur brother
[–]Pls buff PM ICies tyPopipenguin 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 39分 前 (2子コメント)
/r/dota2 is leaking over.
[–]vforvenison 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 16分 前 (1子コメント)
We use that one alot on /r/tf2 as well, in reference to trading scams.
[–]Pls buff PM ICies tyPopipenguin 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15分 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah, it's spreading a lot right now. The "Sir, its me ur brother" is basically a blanket term for trading scams now.
[–]I'm not a bot dammit :c_chao_[M] 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 4時間 前 (4子コメント)
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[–]Joshua_Mills 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 51分 前 (3子コメント)
Wow, they made the bot handle mobile!
[–]I'm not a bot dammit :c_chao_ 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分 前 (1子コメント)
You'll miss me when they one day replace me with a real bot!
[–]Joshua_Mills [スコア非表示] 5分 前 (0子コメント)
I hope you don't get replaced ;-; I love you
[–]Falcon4Lyfemartzfartz 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 42分 前 (0子コメント)
60% dislikes? That was a wonderful speech!
[–]Pinuzzo 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm proud to say that at the Smash 4 scene at my university we have a handful of girls who attend fairly regularly.
[–]NigmaNoname 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 23分 前 (0子コメント)
Pretty good talk, not sure why there's so many dislikes, maybe because comments are disabled.
All in all, I think one of the most major factors of sexism in gaming that is never really talked about is age and maturity. I'm a lifelong "gamer" and in my anecdotal experience, it's usually the younger or the more shut-in inexperienced people who are the most sexist. Now that I'm 26 years old and most of my friends are at the same age, I feel like I've experienced way less sexist behavior in games.
I think when I (and people I knew) were younger there was more of an unhealthy fascination with girls online- everyone would always treat them differently, make them the (often unwanted) focus of attention and this led to gossip and all sorts of other bullshit. Often girls would get a lot of attention without even wanting it, and then the guys would then in turn complain about how they only want attention and aren't real gamers- a vicious cycle that's hard to break and unfair.
I think aging and maturing is the most important process here. I think guys who get out more and socialize more (which often just happens naturally later in your life even if you're a loser in high school) will tend to be less sexist and awkward towards women when they play games.
[–]pitabread58 [スコア非表示] 14分 前 (0子コメント)
As a gay gamer, I've actually distanced myself from the gaming community as a whole. Homophobia ain't fun. While it's not everywhere, it does exist. Womp womp.
[–]NNID: NvaderNvaderGir 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 51分 前 (0子コメント)
Milktea fighting sexism by raising awareness and avoiding to shame male gamers? I wish my twitter feed was more like her.
[–]Pudgetalks 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間 前 (77子コメント)
I don't think anything but female preferences stop more women from joining the scene. As a TO for a small smash 4 weekly, (which is headed by V, the recent winner of Bam7 and the first Woman to win a Sm4sh Major) I don't think that women are actively discouraged from entering the scene. I asked my girlfriend if she's ever felt uncomfortable/not wanted (Not even for just being a girl but in general) and she said no. Some of the Big TO's for Smash 4 in Melbourne are Women (Leisha and V for example.) Obviously my case isn't indicative of every scene but I don't think its a problem. I just hope that as social standards change more girls will be more keen to join E-sports in general. I have no clue why the hell this has so many dislikes though. This is one of the most rational approaches to women in gaming I've seen, but I could be missing something the detractors are rallying (due to no comments fuck I hate that so much)
[–]VivoArdente 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
I understand where you're coming from, but consider a few things.
Our experiences as guys (assuming here) are inherently different than that of women. I'm really glad to hear your local scene is doing well but that doesn't account for other communities and the online community at large. As long as there is still discrimination, there's still work to be done. If members of our communities express distaste, we should address it the best we can without preemptively dismissing those concerns.
[–]speakingcraniums 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 2時間 前 (62子コメント)
The last smash thing I went to I heard easily a dozen rape jokes. That's the kind of thing that will make people uncomfortable. I'm not saying that my experience is indicative of the whole smash scene but I am saying that from what I've seen, it still has quite a ways to go.
[–]Octavian- 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間 前 (3子コメント)
I agree that it's largely female preference, but I don't think it's accurate to say it's only female preference. I'm not of the opinion that smash is openly hostile towards women, but when the demographics are as skewed as they are it will create an environment/culture that is not conducive to people outside the majority demographic. Preference is the biggest factor, but not the only factor.
[–]Brian_Buckley 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 33分 前 (1子コメント)
I'm not of the opinion that Smash is openly hostile towards women
That's the problem. No one is going out of their way to actively or openly discourage women, no, but it's not the active discouragement that we're talking about here. It's the environment that people unknowingly (or apathetically) create around women that is unwelcoming to them. It doesn't have to be an active effort to have an active effect.
[–]Octavian- 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 25分 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah that was my point.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 2時間 前 (7子コメント)
Obviously my case isn't indicative of every scene
And that's exactly why you aren't qualified to say it's not a problem. Everyone's experiences are different. Hell, I saw a post in /r/smashsisters where a former female smasher had rape threats made at her, and she told the TO who did nothing. That's not a preference.
[–]BigBadGodzillaDick 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
thats exactly what i was saying, as far as i can tell the community at large isnt the reason they aren't joining in as regulars.
[–]tenshi_for_days 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
It always angers/saddens me that it only takes a few bad apples to ruin a community's image and then were(not just us but other communities as well)are portrayed as elitists,sexist,etc.
[–]WORMCoryZ40 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間 前 (2子コメント)
Oh my, why so many downvotes on the video on Youtube? :/
[–]mrnintendo15 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 39分 前 (0子コメント)
I think it's because with the gamergate movement and a lot of the controversy surrounding women in gaming, it has created an us vs. them mentality for a lot of gamers. Sad really, it doesn't have to be that way.
[–]Jebobek 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Many controversial topics of sexism lead to youtube comment removal, due to the toxicity of posts. People get upset when they can't make comments. The video downvotes ultimately won't prevent her voice from being heard, so don't sweat it.
[–]Pi_Pu_Pi 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (25子コメント)
I agree with Milktea, but social activists also need to be aware that the reason there's not many female gamers in gaming communities is not only because sexism. The majority of them are simply not attracted to gaming at a hardcore level.
[–]pianopigboy 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 1時間 前* (2子コメント)
True, but part of that could be they see that 99% of competitive gamers are male, and think "This clearly isn't meant for me". It's a viscous cycle. The heavy minority of females in competitive gaming discourages girls from trying it out, which keeps females in the minority.
[–]TheHappyHornistTrevorL13 [スコア非表示] 2分 前 (0子コメント)
It's just like a tier list. Top tiers get played more because they are good and low tiers don't get played as much because they are left to be bad, despite any potential they may have.
[–]murgatroidsp 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think social activists are aware of that (although as pidgezero says, sexism is still a part of those reasons). To some extent, it's irrelevant if there are other reasons keeping females out of gaming communities. As long as sexism is one of them, there's a problem.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間 前 (9子コメント)
If you dig into this issue deeper, sexism is still very much a part of it. I was born in 1989, in my formative years gaming was still very much so marketed toward young boys rather than young girls (and sometimes at the expense of young girls -- Remember the Ocarina of Time commercials?) Video games are built for puzzlers, problem solvers, people who want to be heroes, which are all generally things that are marketed toward boys in any entertainment medium. Not common themes you find in the girls' section of toy stores.
Why are more girls not attracted to competitive gaming? Because most of them aren't socialized to be, that's not really on them so much as on the society that raised them. It's an uncomfortable truth for status-quo worshipers, but who cares what they think lel
[–]Laudandus 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 51分 前 (1子コメント)
What were these Ocarina of Time commercials?
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 30分 前 (0子コメント)
Stuff like "willst thou get the girl? Or willst thou play like one?"
Interesting because IMO link and zelda had basically no romantic subtext... lmao
[–]Pi_Pu_Pi 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間 前 (1子コメント)
True, wish gaming wasn't geared towards boys since the start. Maybe it started gearing towards them because they were the most interested in those those products?
It will take a few years before gaming is all inclusive tho.
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
Not entirely sure. I know that commercials for the Magnavox Odyssey, one of the first gaming consoles ever created, were marketed toward both men and women.
If I had to guess, I'd assume it was because males constituted most of the customers. Now, why is that exactly? If I had to guess on that, I'd figure it was related to how computer science was primarily a female-dominated field until sometime in the 70s when women were more and more getting pushed out for men, since the field started requiring higher degrees of qualification and women were not really pushed to pursue higher education back then (which is not true today, interestingly) and were also overlooked in the highly specialized workforce. Computers being dominated by men = men developing video games = (unintentionally) gearing the technology toward men = marketing and consumer habits are more male-biased. Workplace sexism is a bitch, ain't it?
[–]ComradeBlue 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 46分 前 (2子コメント)
The majority of them are simply not attracted to gaming at a hardcore level.
What? What desiginates what a "hardcore level" is? Don't you think comments stating women aren't attracted to hardcore gaming perpetuates the same sexism that tells them it's un-women like to love games?
Whether or not sexism is the only reason, it's still a reason we can control. Saying that there are other reasons is almost making excuses for not changing the sexism.
[–]Chockrit 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (7子コメント)
This more than anything. The same thing happens when you try and get more women into STEM careers. The fact of the matter is, those areas will always be male-dominated because women generally prefer to work in the humanities and arts as opposed to the sciences, and they similarly dominate those professions over men. The most STEM-like area women are about equally as popular in is probably biology.
[–]LvLupXD 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間 前 (6子コメント)
But at that point the question becomes, "why is that the case?"
[–]Spammalanche 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 52分 前 (0子コメント)
Probably because there isn't (in my experience) a huge push to be inclusive in the STEM fields.
My engineering class is about 10% women. Some of the dudes I go to school with straight up think women are inferior to men, and they voice these opinions (I've confronted them about this and they brush me off because they don't actually have any reasonable explanation for holding those opinions). I've had many male professors who hold similar opinions about women. And honestly, it's really really shitty. I mean, my university student body at one point was 80% women, and my class was 10% women. Like honestly, what the flying fuck is that about?
And honestly, most people I know are indifferent about the problem, because trying to get women interested in STEM would take time away from doing STEM work. The male dominated STEM field is more interested in STEM than in women, I guess is what I'm getting at.
[–]Miravus 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
The smash community's open reception of this kind of thing is such a breath of fresh air. You guys are all great, thanks for being the best community in gaming!
[–]Cohenski 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 31分 前 (0子コメント)
This makes me so happy!
[–]Bean YakCatman789 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 26分 前 (0子コメント)
WE TED-TALK NOW!
For serious, though, it's awesome to see that gamers are continually being taken more seriously. When I think of TED Talks, I think of people talking about ground breaking discoveries in science, but it's cool that gaming culture is being recognized as as well.
[–]adambrukirer 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 24分 前 (0子コメント)
Her speaking was hard to listen to... But the words she used were well chosen
[–]Baalinooo [スコア非表示] 12分 前 (0子コメント)
Sexism in gaming... here we go again...
[–]splendid_ssbm [スコア非表示] 10分 前 (0子コメント)
I tweeted this question at Milktea but I figure I might as well share it here too so as to generate discussion:
"Loved your Ted Talk, but I have a question about it. It's important to be vocal but also important to not be accusatory and I was wondering how a concrete example of that sort of thing might manifest. I remember this past Christmas going to a tournament where this guy kept saying "rape" and I had no idea what to say. I also acknowledge that you're not the end-all-be-all sexism expert and that this is nuanced."
[–]Drezus [スコア非表示] 9分 前 (0子コメント)
Is it hard to realize the smash community is already toxic by nature with everything that's not written down in a tournament wiki?
[–]marcelothefellow [スコア非表示] 9分 前 (0子コメント)
ugh i hate this shit. just play the fucking game.
[–]TheJesterTechno [スコア非表示] 4分 前 (0子コメント)
It makes me happy to see positive attitudes here on Reddit. Other than spreading the word and following this mindset, what are the next steps we can take to help with this issue?
[–]Lolsgod [スコア非表示] 4分 前 (0子コメント)
Just play the game.
Seriously why all the politics? People are jackasses all the time.
When I played travel soccer I was constantly harassed for being a white kid and it "not being my sport".
Dirty hits, insults and even fights started over these insults. I just played the game and did my best and in the end that's all you really can do.
The movie 42 about Jackie Robinson talks about this and its a great example of how to deal with people who don't like you for superficial reasons and its to just show them up.
Honestly I'm starting feel that women don't want to even game anymore since all these types of people are telling them its a bad environment and basically fear mongering and reeving people up.
[–]Justintown11 [スコア非表示] たった今 (0子コメント)
I don't understand the outrage, she basically said "this is something I love to do; however I think there is a problem within the culture surrounding it but I don't like to address it in a way that is patronizing to people I've come to know"
All I'd like to say is that I wish she would have given at least one example of what she thinks is a problem
[–]TheQuasiZillionaire [スコア非表示] たった今 (0子コメント)
I think this is wonderful, and is a step in the right direction not just for Smash, but for gaming in general. Sexism is undeniably ingrained in gaming culture, but that doesn't mean all male gamers are misogynists.
Instead of trying to put up walls or rules that will push people apart, we need to make everyone aware of the reality of the situation. If people can see for themselves that they and their fellow gamers are exhibiting sexism behavior, chances are they will try to correct themselves, and spread the message.
Unfortunately, a LOT of gamers are afraid for the purity of their culture. They are afraid that admitting they are doing things wrong will make the community a bad thing, and things will have to change. And perhaps they also fear that their behavior might make them bad people.
But that is not true at all. Your unintentional behavior does not make you or your culture insidious in any way, and all that needs to change is a bit of attitude. Admitting you're wrong, and working to correct yourself, makes you and your community stronger than ever.
[–]Queeriosity -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 2時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yesss. Testify.
[–]aerovistae -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 1時間 前 (0子コメント)
omg why do all TED speakers have to talk in that same stilted presentation voice? Can't any of them speak naturally? makes these presentations really unbearable
[–]Spazicle -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント 25分 前 (2子コメント)
Christ why do so many female gamers who enter the spotlight claim to be a victim? I have no problem with girl gamers but it seems like every pro esports female player has to go on record to say "boo hoo guys tell me I cant play and to make them sandwiches. I have no equal rights waaahhhh." Get over yourselves. If you really want to see positive changes for your gender in the gaming scene, then stop acting like everybody is trying to get you.
[–]AgeMarkus [スコア非表示] 11分 前 (0子コメント)
I dunno, maybe it's because of people like you?
┐(ツ)┌
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter [スコア非表示] 6分 前 (0子コメント)
If they don't talk about these issues then things will never change.
π Rendered by PID 5615 on app-98 at 2015-05-26 19:50:15.758102+00:00 running ff74f0a country code: JP.
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[–]NNID: SpaceMSiluikatl 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (5子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (2子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Pudgetalks 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]reddit_is_meh 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]El_Pesado 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]skwaag5233 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (11子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (5子コメント)
[–]DPSisBad 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (1子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]skwaag5233 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (2子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]skwaag5233 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Arsenal7X 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Lolsgod 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Arsenal7X [スコア非表示] (2子コメント)
[–]Lolsgod [スコア非表示] (1子コメント)
[–]Arsenal7X [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]whittlemedownz 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]gm4 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]gm4 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[+]GENOCIDEGeorge スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14ポイント-13ポイント-12ポイント (23子コメント)
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Melomaniacal 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]skepticsquid 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]DEATH GRIPSSapharodon 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]kingfroglord 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]bakugoon 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]murgatroidsp 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]EgeDal 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]GENOCIDEGeorge 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント (3子コメント)
[–][US] sboles66sboles66 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]VivoArdente 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]One_Lurker -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]HankeringHankering 62ポイント63ポイント64ポイント (18子コメント)
[–]Lazir 87ポイント88ポイント89ポイント (17子コメント)
[–]Spammalanche 81ポイント82ポイント83ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]Jebobek 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Spammalanche 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Vypur 46ポイント47ポイント48ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]TheSmashPosterGuy 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]mysticrudnin 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Lazir 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]SchAmToo 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]HankeringHankering 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]spsseano 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]HopefulApplicant 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]anothershittyalt 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Swamptrooper 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]MarzipanMagentakrayons 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]drake210 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]fuck 20xxbillpika 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Pls buff PM ICies tyPopipenguin 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]vforvenison 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Pls buff PM ICies tyPopipenguin 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]I'm not a bot dammit :c_chao_[M] 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Joshua_Mills 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]I'm not a bot dammit :c_chao_ 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Joshua_Mills [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]Falcon4Lyfemartzfartz 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Pinuzzo 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]NigmaNoname 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]pitabread58 [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]NNID: NvaderNvaderGir 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Pudgetalks 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (77子コメント)
[–]VivoArdente 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]speakingcraniums 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント (62子コメント)
[–]Octavian- 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Brian_Buckley 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Octavian- 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント (7子コメント)
[–]BigBadGodzillaDick 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]tenshi_for_days 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]WORMCoryZ40 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]mrnintendo15 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Jebobek 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Pi_Pu_Pi 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (25子コメント)
[–]pianopigboy 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]TheHappyHornistTrevorL13 [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]murgatroidsp 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント (9子コメント)
[–]Laudandus 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Pi_Pu_Pi 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]NNID:pidgezero_one||3DS:3110-7180-7058||Brawl/PM:5202-9106-3435MoonbasesYourComment 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]ComradeBlue 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]Chockrit 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (7子コメント)
[–]LvLupXD 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]Spammalanche 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Miravus 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Cohenski 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Bean YakCatman789 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]adambrukirer 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Baalinooo [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]splendid_ssbm [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]Drezus [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]marcelothefellow [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]TheJesterTechno [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]Lolsgod [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]Justintown11 [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]TheQuasiZillionaire [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]Queeriosity -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]aerovistae -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Spazicle -2ポイント-1ポイント0ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]AgeMarkus [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]astrnght_mike_dexter [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)