上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 285

[–]dukeofgonzo 150ポイント151ポイント  (10子コメント)

I thought this was /r/forwardsfromgrandma.

[–]gladlybeyond 20ポイント21ポイント  (9子コメント)

Welp I just found my new fave sub

[–]thatJainaGirl 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

I've been subscribed there for a long time because my grandparents all died when I was very young and it makes me feel like I have grandparents like other people do.

[–]Nosfermarki 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

"You're looking so skinny! You need to eat more!"

[–]TBag_McDangles 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

My grandpa always tells me I look like I've gained weight every time I see him. I can't wait until I inherit his house so I can burn it down.

[–]General__Specific 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one's gonna touch that? No? Wow. Just wow.

[–]NiteStrangler [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

that's his way of saying lose some weight, it may prolong your life

[–]TBag_McDangles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not overweight though. I'm 6'3 and weigh 220. I'm actually in very good shape. He's just an asshole who puts everyone down.

[–]FatherSpliffmas710 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It used to be so good. Shitty memes and comics that look like they'd be enjoyed by your grandmother. Then it turned into shitty Republican vs. Democrat memes, bad political humour and nothing but that.

[–]gladlybeyond 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I'm getting that vibe. Perhaps they should rename it to r/babyboomersonfacebook

[–]DrStickyPete 263ポイント264ポイント  (45子コメント)

If only the jews had guns they could have stopped the Nazis before they defeated Poland, Hungry, Belgium, France, Greece, Norway, Netherlands, and Romania

[–]Noob_of_the_internet 138ポイント139ポイント  (6子コメント)

Hungry

[–]Evil_Laugh_Mwahaha 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does this mean that those Hungry Man frozen meals are ethnic food?

[–]77bc 34ポイント35ポイント  (25子コメント)

Gun control and military might are two completely different things. How just "more guns" would have stopped the Nazis, I do not know.

[–]Killionaire370z 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

The partisans gave em some hell. That's what I woulda done

Defiance!

[–]77bc 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't get me wrong, man... If it were me I'd resist, resist resist.

[–]Hsd9 19ポイント20ポイント  (21子コメント)

You are being just as dumb as this picture.

An armed populace can created hell for an occupying military power Just look at Iraq, Afghanistan, and Vietnam in U.S. history or the partisans in Greece especially during WW2. Even if you are only hunting a fraction of the populace, like the Nazis were, it becomes hell with them interspersed over the general population. No military, no matter how powerful, wants to piss of the people who feed/supply them while hunting the insurgency that hides among the population. Its creates a total strategic nightmare. Not saying this picture isn't dumb but it sure would have drained a lot of Nazi time, lives, and resources trying to exterminate an armed population. There is a reason the Nazi's implemented bans on Jews owning guns in the 30's.

Gun control absolutely relates to military occupation. It is commonly discussed point of strategy. Still, Godwin's law should be applied to this picture.

[–]mojomonkeyfish 50ポイント51ポイント  (1子コメント)

If we wanted to round up and exterminate the Iraqi population, their guns would be meaningless. Just like their tanks and planes and trained military were.

The Nazis weren't looking to occupy Jewish territory, they were commiting genocide. If the people you're wiping out are armed, that just makes them easier to find. Their families need someplace to live and food to eat. Good luck with basic logistics like securing food and water, let alone ammo.

A gun is just the illusion of power.

Good for blasting an unsuspecting intruder, but meaningless to an army, who fully expects you to be armed.

[–]77bc 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. The Iraqis and Afghanis didn't bear the brunt of some Nazi-like, imaginary "Aggressive American Extermination Force"... Just extremely unpopular occupations.

[–]Jrook 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yeah the american military suffered, what 10k casualties? While the total amount of iraqis dead was well over 100k, so yeah guns clearly helped out that population lol

[–]WiWiWiWiWiWi 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

And that was with the U.S. mostly trying to avoid civilian casualties. Now imagine if they were specifically trying to eliminate those civilians.

Using this as an anti-gun control argument is idiotic.

[–]thatguyshootingshit -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ok let's put it this way, the insurgency in Afghanistan is in part the reason it has oh I don't know NEVER BEEN CONQUERED

[–]Camadorski 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Afghanistan has been conquered. Repeatedly. The Mongols did it, Alexander did it, it's nothing new or unprecedented. History doesn't just revolve around Britain, The USSR and the US. Just because they failed to totally pacify the region doesn't mean it can't be done.

[–]choleropteryx 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It has a lot more to do with germs than guns. For example, during the Soviet occupation, the ratio of sick to wounded was almost 8:1

[–]WiWiWiWiWiWi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the U.S. wanted to wipe out Afghani civilians, they could.

[–]Jrook [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The people in afganistan probably contribute like 10-20% of the reason it's never been conquered, and the majority is due to the mountains. They are sitting on billions and even trillions of dollars worth of precious metals but it will never see the light of day because it's a logistical nightmare to even reach it.

[–]77bc 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Blah, blah, blah, Godwin's law, Nazis. Jews with guns would have been a pain for the Nazis. Would it have changed a single fucking thing? NOPE. Millions and millions of dead Jews.

How do you think the Nazis would fare against a military like the Israelis (and its Allies)? See the difference in the point I'm making?

[–]sotonohito 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

gun control has jack shit to do with military occupation. No guerrilla force has ever depended on civilian firearms. It is possible that civilian firearms might help jumpstart a guerrilla movement, but no successful guerrilla group has ever been founded on civilian owned guns.

[–]deedoedee [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

This fellow hates history.

[–]sotonohito [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Please cite historic examples of successful guerilla movements based on civilian weaponry.

[–]deedoedee [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Anyone know who this "Che" guy is on everybody's shirt??

[–]sotonohito [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

???

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or not. Do you just not know how guerrilla movements work?

The guerrilla phase of the Cuban Revolution wasn't fought with guns from civilian ownership. Nor were any of the later phases. Guerrilla wars mostly involve military hardware either captured from the opposition or imported from outside. Mostly they also tend to involve explosives rather than guns. Guns are useful, and they use military guns, but explosives are the real workhorse of any guerrilla movement.

Note, for example, that under Saddam Hussein, guns were widely available to civilians, but they aren't the main tool used against the American forces. The IED is the main killer of occupation/civil forces in Iraq, not the AK-47.

[–]deedoedee [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Guns are useful

Okay. And the guy's people are buying today are either military issue-par or better for the most part.

Of course they aren't going to restrict themselves to just one form of weaponry, but having guns is a huge advantage over not having them, so your point is moot.

[–]JustinATaylor -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its almost as if people purposely ignore history. They always "forget" about this stuff.

[–]WiWiWiWiWiWi 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

About what stuff? The fact he's drawing a comparison to an army (Germany) that was deliberately targeting and killing civilians to an army (US) that tries their hardest to avoid killing civilians?

Apples and oranges, genius. If the U.S. wanted to flatten a city and kill all its inhabitants, they could. So could the Nazis. Handguns do fuckall against bombs, fire, tanks, and armies willing to kill every person they see.

[–]JustinATaylor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You're absolutely right, if a military want to flatten a city they could. Nothing stopping them for doing that.

But you completely ignored the point. The citizens being armed is for when the government wants to oppress the citizens. It's for when an invading military wants to occupy instead of wipe out.

The US could absolutely level the entire middle east in a week. But we occupy instead. That's why AQ/Tali/whoever are still around.

[–]Coltm16 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

I would rather die in a pile of used brass before they take me to the gas chamber.

[–]abenton 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well no shit, who would rather die in a gas chamber than try to live?

[–]SafariDesperate 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Don't try to reason with gun totting rednecks. If having a pistol lets a little man feel big just pat him on the head and leave him to his delusions.

[–]abenton 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, I own quite a few firearms, but saying something like that just sounds like some shit from a conservative facebook post

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They could've taken down a few Nazis with them, or a lot of Nazis if every single Jew was armed.

Besides, you're attacking a straw-man. The OP of this picture (not the guy who posted this to reddit) never said that if Jews had guns they could've prevented the holocaust. He's saying that people should remember that the Jews were rounded up and systematically exterminated and they never had a chance to resist.

[–]unclemusclzhour 17ポイント18ポイント  (9子コメント)

This picture is from Auschwitz in case anybody is wondering. I was just there a few weeks ago, and going through the gas chambers was one of the most shocking and horrifying things that I have ever been through.

[–]roadie_girl 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

The gas chambers were in Birkenau. Although it's called Auschwitz-Birkenau, they're technically two separate camps.

[–]unclemusclzhour 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

No. The scratches were from Auschwitz. Although, Auschwitz was not primarily a death camp, people were still gassed there. Not a huge amount, but I believe it was around 7,000. I walked into the gas chamber in Auschwitz and saw these exact same scratches. Here is one of the pictures that I took. http://www.imgur.com/gallery/Dj4ze3Q I also went to Birkenau, and all of the gas chambers in Birkenau were actually destroyed. Two chambers were destroyed by the Nazis to try and hide the evidence, but one chamber was actually bombed by rebellious Jews who used an accumulation of gun powder to blow the chamber up. There are no more remaining gas chambers in Birkenau, and these scratches are definitely from Auschwitz.

[–]NoceboHadal 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are the scratches on the wall?

[–]unclemusclzhour 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes. There is one particular side of the wall that is filled with scratches. It is really tragic and horrifying. I have a few more pictures that I took while I was there: http://www.imgur.com/gallery/Dj4ze3Q http://www.imgur.com/gallery/X3gtbFt http://www.imgur.com/gallery/gqA6XkF

[–]NoceboHadal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, that is horrific. Thanks (I think)

[–]Razbitch 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I remember when that picture was posted to reddit. People were asking OP how they took it since you're not supposed to take pictures of that.

[–]Droidball 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because we all know that if you're not supposed to do something, that nobody does it.

That's why the War on Drugs has been so effective, amirite?

[–]ChodeMode [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hmmmm... Kinda like gun control... Taking guns from law abiding citizens isn't going to stop criminals from getting, and using them.

[–]Razbitch [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just simply stating I remember when this picture was originally posted to reddit and The reaction to the album.

[–]jungleboogiemonster 107ポイント108ポイント  (11子コメント)

But remember, torture is OK!

[–]CanadianX_XBacon 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

People in glass houses...should probably get around to closing Guantanamo Bay.

[–]CJ_Jones 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zero Punctuation reference, nice!

[–]mushyz 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

it wasn't a great point but you totally missed it

[–]d4nks4uce 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

No you see he got the point. Republican viewpoints just don't seem very logical sometimes.

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What does torture have to do with anything?

[–]xxnavyrulzxx 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wat?

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The picture is meant to remind people that Jews could not resist the government when the latter decided that Jews need to be exterminated. Americans defend their right to bear arms so passionately because one of the core principles of their nation is to allow citizens to defend themselves against the government.

[–]neuhmz 36ポイント37ポイント  (5子コメント)

A lot of fleeing Jewish communities did encourage their members to arm up. Gun ownership is highly encouraged in my community too because of the memory in the community of what has happened. There are organizations too that parallel the aims of the NRA Jews for the preservation of firearms ownership, Jewish lady speaking of the need.

[–]quixoticon 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gas Chambers Don't Kill People, Nazis Kill People.

[–]mazu747 11ポイント12ポイント  (37子コメント)

I don't even understand what's wrong with gun control. If you're not a criminal or mentally insane, own the biggest gun you please for all I care. I don't see what's wrong with keeping guns away from people who could very well use them for harm.

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Because that's not what arm control is about. Contrary to popular belief, it is not common to see lunatics and criminals armed with M-16s walking around the suburbs.

[–]mazu747 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I didn't say that lunatics were walking around with m-16's all the time.

I'll use the Virginia Tech shooting for an example.

The guy who bought the guns was crazy, and it was on his record for being a psychopath and suicidal. He went to a mental hospital once as an in patient, but later it was decided he should just be an out patient. He was able to buy the handguns because the law does not prevent someone like this from buying guns unless they completed their time as an in patient at a mental institution. Out patients or people discharged early are allowed to buy guns.

A few other big shootings had people on record for being total nut jobs, but apparently aren't crazy enough to prevent them from buying guns.

All I'm saying is they should make it tougher for people who aren't mentally stable to buy guns.

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

OP is likely not against this kind of law control. Some people support severe restrictions on guns for healthy people and some people even support a complete ban.

[–]Wargala 8ポイント9ポイント  (22子コメント)

Because at this point, gun control advocates don't ask for just that. They ask for that, eliminating the ar-15, restrict magazine size, limit how many you can purchase at a time, limit the type of rounds you can buy and possess, and the list goes on and on.

If it was just criminals and the insane, we wouldn't have nearly the fight that we are.

Plus, if you want to get technical, the second amendment doesn't say anything about even those restrictions. It says that it shall not be infringed. At all.

[–]moros1988 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

It also mentions a "well-regulated militia", but I don't hear you cunts pushing that part.

[–]evilblackdog 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

  1. In context that doesn't mean what you're thinking.
  2. The bill of rights protects the rights of the people. Why would the 2nd amendment be about establishing the rights of the military?

[–]Wargala 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

Actually, it mentions the "well regulated militia" as an EXAMPLE as to why the right shall not be infringed. Also, if you read your history books, a militia at the time was any military aged male. These were farmers, bankers, ordinary citizens.

So, care to retract that statement?

[–]Nosfermarki 4ポイント5ポイント  (13子コメント)

I think his emphasis was on the "regulated" part.

[–]Wargala 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Got any proof of that? Basic English clearly shows the Amendment showing it's using that as an example. Plus, just a few short years ago, the Supreme Court ruled that the right to own firearms is an individual right, not just a militia.

[–]Nosfermarki 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Proof of what? I'm a gun owner, man, I was just saying that the guy meant seemed to be putting emphasis on regulation, not the amendment as a whole.

[–]Wargala [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep, you're right, I read your reply wrong and responded accordingly. :)

[–]TzarKrispie 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Regulated, at the time of the Bill of Rights means equipped and trained. Not "lets make shit as difficult as possible before the supreme court rules us unconstitutional (ref May-Issue states)".

[–]Nosfermarki 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

Some would argue that requiring training would be a form of regulation. There are a million positions between where we are now and "making it as hard as possible".

[–]TzarKrispie 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

Try purchasing a firearm in CA or HI and tell me the process would fall outside the scope of "shall not be infringed."

As we stand, the ATF (being a complete separate entity from the legislative branch of the government) has the power to define and regulate terms regarding firearms at their own whim, effectively bypassing the legislative process. How is a right still a right if another can limit or outright take it from you at their own discretion?

[–]canadiancarcass -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? You dont talk to many people then.

[–]TinkleMuffin -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be fair, it was talking about guns that fired like one round a minute.

[–]gunhorseunlimited 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The first amendment was also written before megaphones, radios, broadcasting towers, television, microphones and amplifiers, and the internet, but that doesn't really change how important it is.

[–]Maverick554411 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

The problem (though simply put) is that gun control laws will only effect those citizens who choose to follow the law. Criminals or mentally unstable individuals who really want to get their hands on a firearm will still be able to do so regardless of any government control.

[–]Nosfermarki 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is true about literally every law we have.

[–]gunhorseunlimited 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that this point hits home a lot less without this follow-up:

Therefore, if criminals are going to have guns anyway, then taking them away from law-abiding citizens makes for a very dangerous situation. Who wants Mr. I-Rape-Children to have a gun while Mr. I-Want-To-Keep-My-Children-Safe-From-Rape doesn't have one? The former can just stomp all over the latter because the latter doesn't have any way to defend himself, since he followed the law that says "no guns" while the former didn't.

[–]FLSun -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem (though simply put) is that gun control laws will only effect those citizens who choose to follow the law. Criminals or mentally unstable individuals who really want to get their hands on a firearm will still be able to do so regardless of any government control.

You're not a big fan of logic are you?

[–]ItsTheDC -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Well, that's a stupid mentality.

"Oh, criminals might have guns anyway? Better have no gun control laws at all then!"

"Oh, criminals might murder someone anyway? Better have no murder laws at all then!"

[–]tirsirrak 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

gun control+hate+government=genocide Every time.

[–]Kijamon 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

This picture is actually of the recreation. Auschwitz was pretty much levelled after it was liberated and they built these replicas to show people what it was like inside.

[–]mackgiusto [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Nazi's implemented gun control… why is this not understood

[–]cruelpoet 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

What cracks me up is the thought that simply owning a gun somehow infuses its possessor with power. That sense of control is delusional at best. A gun is just a tool; if you don't know how to use it, nor are prepared for the consequences of using it, all it can offer is a fantasy of control and power for the scared and ineffectual.

[–]gunhorseunlimited 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regardless, it's a lot easier to defend against people barging into your home with the intent of doing you or your family harm - whether "people" means criminals or the government - if you have a gun. If you were going to break into someone's house and rape their children, and you saw two houses, and you knew that one house was the home of a gun owner and the other wasn't, which one would you choose to break into?

Additionally, it's silly to make the argument "Well since having guns doesn't necessarily make you powerful enough to stop oppressors, there's no reason to have them anyway." Sure, having a gun might not be able to stop the military from riding in with tanks and helicopters, but it's a hell of a lot better than not having a gun.

[–]acidburnz_EU 17ポイント18ポイント  (98子コメント)

No amount of guns will save you from an all controlling malevolent government.

Especially in a time of cellphones, Internet and drones.

[–]gunhorseunlimited 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

No amount of locked doors and windows will stop a determined criminal from breaking into your house and doing harm to you, your family, or your property. So why don't we eradicate locks?

[–]fighter5091 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

You can shoot yourself so you don't have to live in a world like that, though. You can't shoot yourself without guns.

[–]neuhmz -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

It only takes one gun, and one well placed shooter to kill a tyrant.

[–]StringEpsilon 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

In many cases, killing just the tyrant isn't enough.

And sometimes, a bomb would be easier to come by and more efficient. At least if your target has no massive oak table...

[–]neuhmz 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Albert Speer wanted to put posion gas in the air intake of one of his bunkers. But the top was sealed.

[–]Pestilence48 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are you seriously implying that Obama is a tyrant?

[–]neuhmz 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

whoah not Obama, jumped the gun there buddy voted for him twice. This thing targets democrats, I am a democrat too.

[–]Pestilence48 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Understood. I've just seen way too many comparisons of Obama and Hitler on Facebook so I just assumed.

[–]xereeto 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Only if the parent comment is referring to the US government... I took the "controlling, malevolent government" to mean the Nazis because of the context of the image.

[–]canadiancarcass -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

A resistance thats spread throughout the country would definitely make a giant thorn in the governments foot.

[–]worthlessfucksunited -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah worked great for the French

[–]FicklePickle13 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

It did, actually. And in Belgium. But it wouldn't have worked as well as it did without outside assistance from powerful allies.

[–]worthlessfucksunited 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

How did it work if they were occupied?

[–]FicklePickle13 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The same way it does in every occupied country fighting off their oppressors. Terrorist attacks, sabotage, and boatloads of spying.

Edit: Also, they got the occupiers out.

[–]Ravalevis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, now I feel like we should gas the person who made this.

[–]DarthTyekanik 4ポイント5ポイント  (22子コメント)

Nazis had very strict gun control. So did the commies. Makes sense.

[–]gino3298 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

The only real gun control was for the jews, and just the jews. Under both the 1928 and 1938 acts, gun manufacturers and dealers were required to maintain records with information about who purchased guns and the guns' serial numbers. These records were to be delivered to a police authority for inspection at the end of each year.

Some German police used the 1928 "trustworthiness" clause to disarm Jews on the basis "the Jewish population 'cannot be regarded as trustworthy'".

On November 11, 1938, the Regulations Against Jews' Possession of Weapons was promulgated by Minister of the Interior, Wilhelm Frick. The regulation prohibited Jews from possessing firearms, ammunition, and other weapons.

For everyone else, if you bought a hand gun you just had to get a 3 year permit for it, so if people wanted to protect jews, they had the ability, they just didn't let the jews protect themselves.

[–]sotonohito 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Are you lying, or just ignorant?

Hitler completely deregulated several varieties of gun, and dramatically loosened gun laws for everyone but Jews. The number of privately owned guns in Germany increased by several orders of magnitude after Hitler came to power.

The myth that Hitler was anti-gun is a complete fabrication invented by gun fondlers, it has no basis in reality at all.

[–]Pestilence48 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

The Nazis also had a flag. America has a flag too. America = Nazis confirmed.

But in all seriousness, Hitler's gun control was set up to take all guns away from political enemies. Obama just wants to eliminate the ones with an unnecessary amount of killing power. This is something I don't understand about 2nd Amendmenters. He is not taking your right to bear arms, he only wants to keep advanced military hardware out of the hands of citizens, and especially the mentally ill or felons.

[–]Droidball 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

his is something I don't understand about 2nd Amendmenters. He is not taking your right to bear arms, he only wants to keep advanced military hardware out of the hands of citizens

I don't expect to change your point of view, but I'll try to give an honest effort at explaining this for you.

The point of contention is that laws already exist to keep 'advanced military hardware' out of the hands of normal citizens - automatic weapons (Machine guns, assault rifles, SMGs, burst-fire capable weapons, etc.), anti-vehicle weaponry (Rocket launchers, missiles, autocannons), explosives (Mines, grenades, bombs, mortars), vehicle-mounted weaponry (large-caliber guns, cannons, artillery), and other miscellaneous weaponry are functionally illegal - only able to be obtained after extensive paperwork and background checks by federal agencies, and prohibitively expensive besides (i.e. an M16, of the style and capabilities of those used by the US military will easily cost you tens of thousands of dollars - and it won't even be brand new).

These laws have been in place for quite some time - some for the better part of a century, and some for decades.

Background checks already exist - in a capacity that is actually functional and useful. Where the system falls short is that the majority of people who are mentally ill, are not documented as such - either as a result of the red-tape of healthcare privacy laws, as a result of inefficiency and lack of communication between different groups, or, and far more often, simply as a result of these individuals not having been diagnosed or treated for anything more than generic anxiety and/or depression - like a very substantial portion of the population of every Western nation.

The reasons anti-gun control folks get all up in arms (no pun intended) when the subject comes up is that what so many gun control advocates wish to do is ban firearms like the AR-15, mandate 'universal background checks', and limit magazine capacities. There are others, but these are currently and in recent memory, the biggest things being pushed for, and I'm going to address just these three individually.

First, the AR-15. There is a misconception by many that the AR-15 and the M4/M16 rifles used by the US military are functionally identical - capable of automatic fire (or easily modified to allow for such), capable of 'extreme killing power', an unreasonably 'high caliber', and that they are easily obtained and frequently used in the commission of violent crimes. This is not the case. They share many of the same mechanical components and cosmetic features of the M4/M16 rifles, yes. They fire the same round (5.56x45mm NATO or .223 Remington - functionally the same cartridge), yes.

They are not capable of automatic fire, and it is very difficult to modify them to be so - to the point of requiring modern metal machining equipment and even fabricating new parts.

The cartridge, 5.56mm NATO, is not a 'high caliber round', and it is not capable of 'extreme killing power' - it's literally a high-velocity .22 cartridge, and its ability to pierce most police soft body armor is due to it being a rifle cartridge, whereas police body armor is generally rated to protect against common pistol rounds (Given that these are the most commonly encountered firearm threats). Virtually every other common rifle cartridge in popular use in the US is significantly more powerful, and equally or more so capable of piercing body armor. The .223/5.56 is significantly overshadowed in penetration, range, accuracy, and lethality by other, much less maligned rifle cartridges that are just as common - .308 Winchester (Which stands a very good chance at defeating my military combat body armor), .30-06 (Ditto), 7mm Remington (Again, ditto), .300 Winchester Magnum (Again...)

As for easily obtained and used in a large amount of violent crimes...This website debunks just about every myth and talking point that is brought up to argue for the prohibition of 'assault weapons', with links to studies and statistics to support these. Easily obtained? The average AR-15 or 'assault weapon' generally costs in excess of $750, and can easily cost $1500 or more. They are not the sort of firearm that even the average citizen, let alone the average criminal, can afford to purchase and own.

Onto universal background checks. These are often brought up with an argument to 'close the gun show loophole'. First and foremost, the overwhelming majority of firearm purchases at gunshows are from federally licensed firearms dealers (FFLs), i.e. a local gun store that has set up a table to take advantage of the large amount of potential customers. ANY firearm transaction (More on that in a moment) from an FFL to a private citizen requires by federal law, a background check - any transaction. If I purchase a gun online, from a place like Armslist or Gunbroker (Basically Craigslist or Ebay for guns/gun stuff, essentially), it must be shipped from and FFL and to an FFL, and I have to go pick it up from whichever FFL received it. Before I can leave their store with it, they are required by law to conduct a background check just as if I'd purchased it from their inventory.

The only aspect of firearms sales that are not regulated are between licensed dealers (A gun store selling something to another store, or a manufacturer selling something to a store, for instance), which licenses obviously require extensive background checks and time and money and paperwork before being issued; and private transactions - i.e., I want to get rid of a shotgun I have, so I sell it to my neighbor for $200..Just as if I wanted to sell them an old TV.

Now, that second bit, private transactions, that sounds like something that should be required to have background checks, too, right? The issue that pro-2A people have with this often isn't that it's necessarily unreasonable, it's that it's unfeasible and does nothing but punish people who already abide by the law. It's already illegal to sell a gun to a known criminal, a mentally ill person, a fugitive, etc. whether it's me, you, or a gun store selling the gun.

So, enter mandatory background checks - even for private sales. I still want to sell my shotgun to my neighbor for $200...But now I'm required by law to go with him to a gun store with the gun's information, and mine and his personal information, and pay a $15-80 fee to that store to conduct a background check on us both, to ensure we're both legally able to complete the transaction.

Aside from this just being an expensive pain in the ass - what the hell is stopping me from just walking over, knocking on his door, handing him the gun, taking his ten $20 bills, shaking hands, and going back to my house to play Xbox? Absolutely nothing. It's like securing your house with a piece of duct tape on the outside of your door - it provides literally zero functional security. It's worthless. It's a waste of time, money, and legislation - and it'd end up screwing over people far, far, far more than it'd end up preventing crime. Virtually the only people who would be punished for violating this law would be a father buying his son a gun for Christmas, a husband getting his girlfriend a gun for personal protection, a grandpa giving his grandchild his old revolver he got in the 50's, etc. - as these would be private transactions, and requiring a background check per this law, but many people would not realize that they applied to these situations.

And, finally, onto magazine capacities - again, I would like to present this website, about halfway down the page. I don't want to add to my wall of text more than I have to, but it boils down to it being another feel-good law that has no real impact on crime prevention or gun violence reduction, and serves only to inconvenience law-abiding gun owners. It takes 2-3 seconds to change magazines - not nearly enough time to have any significant impact on a shooting where the shooter is expending that much ammunition to begin with (This is demonstrable by comparing mass shootings where the shooter or shooters had <10 round magazines, and >10 round magzines).

I doubt anyone is going to read this in its entirety, but if you have any further questions about any of this, I will try to answer them in a timely manner.

tl,dr: Pro-Second Amendment people aren't against common sense gun laws - it's that common sense gun laws already exist, and we're against useless feel-good laws that just make it more difficult and more expensive for law-abiding citizens to own guns for legitimate and lawful personal use.

[–]TiittySprinkles 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Great post.

Shame it's so far down the page and not many people will read it.

[–]Pestilence48 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That was probably the must educational reply I've ever received in a discussion. Thanks for putting in the time to write that up. I guess the problem is that I've been arguing with morons who just say that Obama wants to take away everyone's guns, rather than knowledgeable people like you.

[–]sotonohito 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hitler didn't take guns away from anyone. At the time he came to power, and thanks in large part to the Treaty of Versailles, there were virtually no guns owned by civilians anywhere in Germany.

After Hitler came to power he completely deregulated many types of gun, and significantly loosened restrictions on many other types. It is true that the relaxing of gun laws didn't include Jews, but Hitler didn't have to disarm Jews they were already disarmed.

The number of guns owned by civilians went up dramatically during Hitler's time in power.

[–]Pestilence48 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the clarification, I didn't know that. I just assumed he did because of all the times I've seen "Hitler took away the Jews' guns and then he killed them all! Don't let Obama take your guns!" on social media.

[–]DarthTyekanik -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm pretty sure Hitler's intentions, being so clear now were placated as "elimination of unnecessary amount of killing power" at it's time too. Road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[–]Pestilence48 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd like to see a source for that claim. If you think the US government is after you and wants to conduct genocide on its own people then you're delusional. Again, Obama isn't against all guns, not even most guns.

[–]musicalshoelaces 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Srsly wtf. No.

[–]soulruler 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Right.. Democrats = Nazis. Got it

[–]Freelance_JIDF_Shill [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not what he's saying. He is reminding people why the right to bear arms is so important - to help citizens protect themselves against the government.

The Jews were defenseless against the government when the latter decided to exterminate the Jews.

[–]nelonblood 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have a voice mail.

[–]Psandysdad 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whoever created this is self-deluded. In the time of the Third Reich, the population at large in Germany and Europe in general wasn't armed to the teeth.

They still aren't: it is strictly an American problem as far as the first world goes.

[–]cfj1992 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember reading that this was actually done by people vandalizing it. The scratches are actually not from the holocaust.

[–]NicoHollis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've been inside that gas chamber and it's probably the creepiest place I'll ever go. Screw you, Democrats!

[–]Mindai 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, because the lack of gun control in the USA totally prevented KKK, racial segregation and hate crimes.

[–]baskandpurr 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It always amuses me how the answer is so specific, guns that you hold in your hand and fire with a trigger. The enemy might use all kinds of technology, automated systems, robots, drones, bombs, satellites, missiles, etc. The answer to all of those things just happens to be a weapon that you can use to threaten on a personal level. Because you can't be protected from the Democrats by a surveilance drone, an EMP, an anti-tank mine. Nope, the solution to every problem is a gun.

[–]ryderpavement 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sick of shat on by republicans over this stupid issue. Keep your guns. Stop voting against your self on money. It's overtly apparent that robots / drones are the future of warfare. Your gun is an outdated safety blanket. If cuddling that thing at night helps you sleep god bless you.

[–]blizzardice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not outdated. It's just a few years old. Not to mention it helps keep the animal overpopulation in check.

[–]lampishthing 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like de-escalated.

[–]mackgiusto -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

why is this a facepalm

[–]iknowurider72 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gun rights advocates like conservative politicians only use fear as their argument. That have nothing else.