1779
1780

MRW reading feminist arguments against the latest episode of Game of Thrones (i.imgur.com)

Haematobic が 投稿

上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 454
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]molonlabe88 140ポイント141ポイント  (55子コメント)

ALL these comments and no actual link to these feminist rants??

But there are some batshit crazy comments in this thread.

[–]Robbomot 66ポイント67ポイント  (27子コメント)

Apparently they're on tumblr, /r/gameofthrones has almost become a circlejerk about that scene and the sand snakes, it's ridiculous and giving too much voice to a minority, but that's what reddit does

[–]mrheh 34ポイント35ポイント  (3子コメント)

Man I thought that sand snakes vs jamie and his boy was the worst choreographed fight scene in the series.

[–]faultywriter 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

My biggest problem was the ridiculous coincidence of them showing up at the gardens at the exact same time

[–]Rankine [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, it was pretty bad. I had higher hopes too considering the fight with jamie and bronn vs the guards was pretty good.

[–]thesmonster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I sincerely dislike the sandsnakes. Their acting isn't amazing (probably because the scripts aren't great), their story doesn't make a lot of sense, and I'd trade them in a second for LSH. And why is Jaime even there? He isn't that stupid!

[–]ConcedeDota 74ポイント75ポイント  (20子コメント)

It's honestly bullshit. No one on the sub has linked anything relevant either.

It's more like 2-3 random nobodies expressed a moronic opinion on Twitter and Reddit triggers itself into a silly reactionary circle jerk

[–]DezBryantsMom 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

Are you implying that there's no outrage? I've seen at least 3 articles on my newsfeed about it since Sunday.

[–]Karmaisforsuckers 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

Anti-SJW's are far more numerous, loud, crazy, stupid, and aggressive than actual SJW's.

[–]ClownFundamentals 30ポイント31ポイント  (4子コメント)

Whether you agree or disagree with this statement almost certainly depends on your personal views on "Anti-SJW's" or "actual SJW's". We are conditioned to view the world in a certain way and all our experiences are filtered through our pre-existing beliefs.

In particular, oftentimes people from each ideological faction seek out the most extreme members of their opposition and hold them up as paradigmatic. This means that if you are "anti-SJW", you are primarily exposed to the absolute worst of the "SJW" crowd, and if you are "SJW", you are primarily exposed to the absolute worst of the "anti-SJW" crowd. Each side is focused on the worst of each other without any consideration for the vast, silent, unnoticed middle, who probably is just as disgusted with the extremists on their side but are too focused on the extremists on the other side to notice.

[–]Kylden_Ar 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You also just described the disconnect people have with politics.

[–]Human005 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, more of this.

[–]appointment_at_1_am [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What is SJW?

[–]Ulster_Celt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thank you so much for your mature and rational response. I commend you as one of those unnoticed middle ground people.

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]pr0tosynnerg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Did I make it in time?

    [–]ArcticZeroo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    To be fair the Sand Snake circlejerk is completely justified.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]elbenji 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

      Mary Sue, Feminist Frequency. I think people would just link the usual folks (Mary Sue surprised me though, they're generally more level headed)

      [–]BenAdaephonDelat 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

      The people who complain about video games when there are women dying in other countries for wanting an education are usually more level headed?

      [–]elbenji 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Mary Sue? There more film and tv

      [–]HomoSatanCommieTroll 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      You mean like how you're complaining about them while there are women dying in other countries for wanting an education? Or is it only feminists who aren't allowed to care about more than one thing at a time?

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]Etherius 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Not hard to find.

        Less than six seconds of Googling.

        [–]onetrickwolf -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Because the big scary insane feminist mob is really mostly hypothetical click bait. When people ask for proof, they find trolls or the relatively few insane people (or just dumb kids) posting about it.

        Not saying they don't exist, it's just not the pandemic Reddit paints it to be.

        The other side does it too to be fair. The whole "zealot MRA who wants the right to rape you" thing is super over represented in the Tumblr community relative to how many actual insane people like that exist.

        The funny thing is both communities largely agree but they just have miscommunication and misrepresentation because the ideas that spread (e.g. get the most karma or notes) are ones that enrage people, not necessarily the most truthful ones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]newpath2day[🍰] 418ポイント419ポイント  (188子コメント)

          Yep, pretty fucking ridiculous! Reek gets his cock cut off and no one gives a shit. Sansa gets raped and ohhh no that can't happen....

          [–]twoworldsin1 99ポイント100ポイント  (28子コメント)

          Seriously...if you're looking for socially progressive fictional settings where women have social and economic freedom, then you should NOT consider Westeros.

          [–]MordorsFinest 105ポイント106ポイント  (26子コメント)

          Why? They have Brienne who's a warrior, Jon Snow's redhead gf, Olenna Tyrell. There are way more women who have power and agency in Westeros than all of human history before 1800. If he made Westeros's history closer to Earth's the 10 or 12 important female characters who are warriors, leaders, and important advisors would be knocked down to like 1 or 2 and there'd be a lot more rape of women and children, slavery, cannibalism, and much more brutal torture

          Ever heard of scaphism or the Iron Bull? Ever heard of the Rape of Nanking and what Japanese soldiers used Bayonets for? People who bitch about Game of Thrones seem to have the historical knowledge of 3rd graders. Real life is way more brutal and women have been nothing more than child bearers for most of history. Westeros almost exaggerates their importance vis a vis Earth history.

          Of course its great that women are allowed in positions of power and listened to now but you can list the grand total of 15 major female leaders from 6,000 BC to 1800 AD and try to tell me they've had an equivalent or greater impact than the 20 women or so in 300 years of Westerosi history and i will laugh. Real life is way more sexist and brutal than Game of Thrones.

          [–]twoworldsin1 47ポイント48ポイント  (21子コメント)

          Those are pretty much the three women in the books that I can think of that have the most independent agency. Ygritte is a wildling, an anarchic society on the fringes of civilization that are looked down upon because of their lack of hierarchy. Brienne is regularly mocked at best and threatened to be raped or beaten at worst because people see her as non-female due to her androgynous looks and her desire to be a knight. She doesn't fit the societal expectation in Westeros for how a lady should conduct herself, and she was regularly mocked for it throughout her life.

          Olenna Tyrell, the Queen of Thorns, is probably the best example of a female character in ASOIAF who has a degree of independent agency that rivals that of her male peers, but she's very old and very crafty, and she probably spent most of her life trying to get to that position by way of intrigue and subterfuge.

          [–]Fluorspar29 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Well Margery and Cersei are actually doing fairly well now that the royal family and it's advisors now consists of Tommen, Pycell and... Mace? Both are ambitious women with a lot of power.

          Then there's Dorne where women have equal rights to the throne, something that was only recently recognised in the UK. So that's fairly progressive.

          And finally Dany, who has the potential to be the most powerful person in the world if she sorts out her dragons and grows up a bit. Throughout the history of ASOIAF Targaryen Sister-Wives have been pretty damn powerful and influential eg participating in conquering Westeros.

          /u/MordorsFinest definitely hit the nail on the head in saying women in GoT are doing a hell of a lot better than much of human history.

          [–]twoworldsin1 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think just like in real life, women's rights get a LOT more accessible the higher up you get in society. By the time you become landed or part of the ruling class, your chances of at least being seen as equal to your male peers become more likely. If you're still in the peasantry, being beaten, being raped, or being sold into prostitution are still more viable possibilities.

          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

            [–]MordorsFinest 13ポイント14ポイント  (15子コメント)

            I LOVE Olenna.

            There's also Daenerys, she's basicaly girl Alexander the Great. Melisandre is girl Rasputin, Cersei is girl Nero kinda, there's Arya who is completely unrealistic but i love her and hope i have a daughter like her but Brienne is also unbelievable. Theres a reason why the most believable female warriors are always archers or sharpshooters.

            [–]twoworldsin1 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I hated Cersei, but I felt SO bad for her in Dance With Dragons, especially toward the end.

            [–]MordorsFinest 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I didn't, what happened to her isn't even an announce of the torment she inflicted on Sansa.

            コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]marcuschookt 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Back to the previous dude's main point, it's still pretty stupid to watch/read Game of Thrones for it's strong feminist themes.

                [–]SHITPOST_4_JESUS 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Your commentary regarding the importance of women in human history vs GRRM's work is a bit off.

                Nearly all of the women throughout earth's history that have gained power prior to the modern age have done so because of 1) Family, 2) Marriage, 3) Sex, 4) Religion. The power of a woman in history usually extended from a man or a lineage.

                Now look at all the women in GRRM's books that have any semblance of power. All of them are nobles whose houses were formed by famous male ancestors. Melisandre falls into Sex/Religion category, and Ygritte isn't powerful or important. Remember that the perspective she comes into the story with is a low-one (Jon Snow is a bastard and The Night's Watch is a place where people go to be wiped from history.)

                Honestly, Westeros doesn't seem any better than Earth's history for women. It seems to me that GRRM gives a fairly raw representation of humanity in his work.

                [–]LionTigerWings 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                And you even forgot to bring up up the Daenerys.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]TheMagicMarkerMan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  And yet, the two most powerful people in Weteros are women right now.

                  [–]brajx 202ポイント203ポイント  (104子コメント)

                  Yep, pretty fucking ridiculous! Reek gets his cock cut off and no one gives a shit. Sansa gets raped *reluctantly agrees to do what she knew would be expected of her if she agreed to marry Ramsey. and ohhh no that can't happen....

                  I'm not saying that it's a nice system or that it would be okay in our 21thst century Earth-western society but by Westerosi standards it would be quite a stretch to call it rape, especially since she knew all along(more or less) what she was getting into.

                  Funny thing is that the scene is quite mild compared to what happened in the book.

                  [–]21Penguin 46ポイント47ポイント  (11子コメント)

                  Agreed - it is tame in comparison to the book.

                  Did anyone kick off like this after the Dany's wedding night scene? I don't remember anything, but I didn't start watching till third season was out. But that's a similar situation, forced into a marriage knowing that they will have to consummate that night. Both are rape, as they didn't want it, but why is only Sansa's is getting attacked?

                  I think feminism has such potential to unite people into striving for equality between genders, but stories like this give feminism a bad rep as it looks like someone kicking up a fuss because they don't like a particular scene in a fictional TV show.

                  For me, although not a massive fan of that scene (who enjoys watching assault right?), I do think it's right to have those scenes in there. My first reason for this is because we follow these characters and their story - we see what they see and hear what they hear. With Sansa she's a main PoV, we've seen her go through so many shit things and it would be kinda weird to cut out something else traumatic after following her through everything else. My second reasoning is that people get raped in real life, why pretend this didn't and still isn't happening? I think the show probably helps as it actually shows it instead of shying away.

                  I would get annoyed with the writers if after this makes Sansa's character submissive and under total control of Ramsey. But I doubt they will, hopefully she will come out stronger and fighting - which is a positive message to show viewers.

                  Yes, this female character has been abused by men who thought they owned her, but showing that and then having her take back control is a inspiring story. It will show other women, and men, who have been abused that they can stand up for themselves.

                  Also having such controversial topics (not just rape) in a very popular show means there's less stigma around them, so they can talked about openly and lead to us understanding one another better.

                  Rant over.

                  [–]captnyoss 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  but why is only Sansa's is getting attacked?

                  I think the difference would 100% be because the show is vastly more popular.

                  [–]JudgeRetribution 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

                  This is pretty much the reason I have two categories that I personally use. True feminism and fanatical feminism. I'm not saying it has to be one or the other because, like the rest of life, it's always a a scale between the two options. I just hate to see a good cause that can connect both genders with a goal of equality dragged down by the more fanatical individuals who either can't or don't want to look at the long road. I know a lot of this post has been vague but I didn't want to go on a huge rant. If people ask I will explain myself further.

                  [–]firebearhero 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  i dont think you have to write a character to be a positive rolemodel for people. if it made more sense for the show that sansa would fold and give up like probably most people in that position would then i dont think its wrong of the writers ro write that.

                  i dont think theh have any responsibility to cater to you, me or anyone else when writing their characters. even if they were outright sexist in their portrayal of someone i think its in their creative freedom to do that, even if i personally would think its poor writing.

                  [–]21Penguin 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I didn't say the writers have to do anything, it would just really pee me off if we got defeated Sansa. Especially after all the character development they've done to try and make her a game changer instead of a victim.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]SaltyBabe 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    I agree with you it's stupid that this scene specifically is being called out because it's a "different time" but you can rape your spouse. Just because you're expected to consummate your marriage doesn't mean that saying "I do" is a free invitation to sex at the other persons will. I'm not saying a person should go into a marriage, arranged or not, expecting to never have sex but marriage vows aren't "anytime, anywhere" consent.

                    P.s. It's just a show and I think this whole thing is stupid. The scene is to make you hate the dude even more and it obviously accomplished it's goal.

                    [–]thenewtbaron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    it is rape. agreeing. however, she did know it was coming but doesn't stop it from being painful, humiliating and the like.

                    heck, she might even be playing it up so that she doesn't get "boring" for him. if she goes all dead affect, he will tire of her and probably do horrific things.

                    yea, i don't know a single person who was like, "that was a sexy scene" pretty much everyone was stunned andshocked after that scene. I don't know why people are so angry about the scene. it is a part that shows some of the horrific parts of what feminists were fighting against. some people don't understand marital rape... but this one scene shows the problems and why it is wrong.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                      [–]HazMat68W 109ポイント110ポイント  (37子コメント)

                      As a female who has been through sexual assault, I found the arguments against this scene full of shit. To the point where it angered me. And that blog, Mary Sue, boycotting the show? Infuriating.

                      [–]destructormuffin 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I read that article by the Mary Sue and all I could think of was how Danaerys is supposed to be 13 and (if I'm not mistaken) Khal Drogo rapes her one of the first times they meet.

                      So apparently that's ok. But this Sansa business is just too much.

                      Edit: I double checked. In the books, Drogo rapes her on their wedding night.

                      [–]TheLarryMullenBand 16ポイント17ポイント  (16子コメント)

                      What arguments bothered you?

                      I'm genuinely interested, as the people getting up in arms about that scene bother me as well.

                      [–]MaverickTopGun 35ポイント36ポイント  (7子コメント)

                      I didn't even know there would be any arguments against it until after I went on reddit a few days after it aired. She got married, I assumed everyone knew there would be sex and it's not gonna be great

                      [–]TheLarryMullenBand [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Yeah I would imagine that if show-watchers had even paid the slightest attention so far that they would see what happened to Sansa coming from a mile away. Did they think Ramsay Bolton was going to have romantic, consensual sex with her? Would they have preferred how it went down in the books instead?

                      It will build Sansa as a character and move both her and Theon's arcs along in the show. After all the shit she's gone through Sansa will use this incident to harden herself and get on the attack, and it will also awaken Theon from his shell and he'll end up helping her. I'll give it 2 episodes until we see her kill Ramsay and/or escape Winterfell with Theon. D&D aren't just going to have Sansa get raped for the sake of shock value, they're smarter people/writers than that.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

                        [–]anitokin 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

                        some posts in r/asoiaf says that, basically, Sansa's useless now since she lost her virginity, she can't be married to a great lord etc.

                        some are saying that her character development is wasted because she was raped and she's just and still a victim

                        [–]Blizzaldo 48ポイント49ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        Not being a virgin really slowed down Margaery.

                        [–]Kylden_Ar 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        For about as long as it took her to make Tommen change his interest in pussy to pussy.

                        [–]AgentAsterisk 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        I think that's ridiculous. My guess is that she'll wallow in grief for an episode, and then finally grow some ovaries and kick Bolton ass up and down the North. Everyone seems to assume that the rape is intended as character building for Theon, but I think it serves both Theon and Sansa.

                        [–]EzzeJenkins [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                        Except it has been a problem with Game of Thrones(the tv show) raping characters just for the shock value and then never mentioning it again.

                        The most offensive part of the last episode was the writing.

                        [–]Sawgon 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        That's the thing though. A lot of people complaining haven't been through anything. They have no issues with their lives so they make things up just to get riled up. That's pretty much what SJWs do.

                        Sorry you had to go through that though.

                        [–]mynoduesp 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        They're just being controversial for clickbait and to get their name out there, probably.

                        [–]Ninjapork 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Hope all is well internet stranger :)

                        [–]codydynamite 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Its not a documentary

                        [–]protespojken 3ポイント4ポイント  (33子コメント)

                        what happened in the book?

                        [–]Neamow 60ポイント61ポイント  (10子コメント)

                        Nothing, she never went to Winterfell.

                        [–]jackfrostbyte 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

                        What the hell are they doing in the show? I haven't watched since the second season, but I read all the books so far.
                        Did they completely throw away the Littlefinger plot?

                        [–]Neamow 34ポイント35ポイント  (8子コメント)

                        They kept pretty close to the books for four seasons, but the fifth one is one change after another. Not for the worse, though, I personally feel like they're tying down the plotlines better.

                        Except that stupid Dorne plot. What the hell.

                        [–]TheLarryMullenBand 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        Leaving out the Kingsmoot/Greyjoy plot in favor of those edgy Sand Snakes...hooray.

                        The Dorne plot as a whole isn't bad in the books - it's rather interesting from Doran and Arianne's perspective. They've just done a terrible job of adapting it to the show. That Water Gardens scene from the last episode was probably one of the most poorly executed scenes in the entire show thus far, it was just so corny and felt disconnected from everything else. Not sure what they were aiming for there. And Jaime being there just doesn't feel right, it would have been cool to see him and Bronn (replacing Ser Ilyn) in the Riverlands.

                        [–]maynard89 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        I FIGHT FOR DORNE.

                        WHO DO YOU FIGHT FOR?

                        Ugh

                        [–]Panukka 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        They had a week to film all the water garden scenes. It probably explains why the execution was so lacking.

                        [–]TheLarryMullenBand 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Still doesn't explain the uninspiring and lazy writing, it was just so lacking.

                        I've seen probably 10+ posters in /r/asoiaf come up with a better sequence of how they could have done the Water Gardens scene.

                        [–]Atom612 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        My name is Inigo Montoya! You killed my father, prepare to die!

                        [–]Nostroloppoccus 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        As spoiler-free as possible: A different girl from Winterfell that made a brief appearance in the first episode of the show and was never heard from again gets married to Ramsay. In the books Theon knew her in a sisterly kind of way. Ramsay forces Reek (Theon) to go down on her on their wedding night. She later ends up with dog bites and many people think Ramsay was warging into his dogs and raping her/biting her/who knows what else as the dogs.

                        [–]JerfFoo 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Just to clarify, Theon was forced(Everything Theon does now is forced, I guess) to go down on her to get her wet for Ramsay. Kind of a horrific double-rape, since neither of them wanted to do it.

                        [–]brajx 6ポイント7ポイント  (14子コメント)

                        Spoilers(hover to read)

                        [–]altruisticnarcissist 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                        Doesn't Ramsey force Reek to perform oral on Jayne Poole?

                        [–]TheSteaky 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Spoilers

                        [–]InfiniteLighthouses 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        Doesnt actually link to anything

                        [–]brajx 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        Hover with your cursor.

                        [–]altruisticnarcissist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        You need to delete the space between /s and the body of your comment or it's not redacted-looking.

                        http://i.imgur.com/nnyeGn9.png

                        [–]InfiniteLighthouses 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        oh shoot im dumb. Well thank you

                        [–]pastrygeist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Someone remind me:

                        [–]Manakel93 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Ramsay married a different girl who was pretending to be Arya, she was raped on their wedding night by him as well; but he forced Reek to help and also used dogs.

                        Sansa absorbed that storyline basically.

                        [–]pastrygeist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Well for one,

                        Edit: formatting

                        [–]My_name_is_Jaime 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        A different girl gets raped by a dog, under threat of death, and a tortured/dickcut guy is forced to go down on her by the psychopathic torturing bastard son.

                        [–]thenewtbaron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        ramsey gets a fake stark - a girl in o the court winterfell. He rapes her and forces reek to "help"

                        in the book it is not an important person. it is just another rando that ramsey hurts.

                        [–]hack5amurai [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        The almost same exact scene happened early in the first season with khal and dany. Everybody was chill with that though.

                        [–]ilikecommunitylots 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        That's a misinformed and frankly very stupid and sexist view.

                        Sansa knew what was coming, sure. That doesn't mean she was looking forward to it. It was absolutely rape, there was nothing she could do to get out of it. Had she left winterfell she would've been attacked by someone else and left for dead.

                        [–]brajx 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        there was nothing she could do to get out of it.

                        Except that Little Finger gave her an out at Moat Cailin, "say the word and we'll turn the horses around".

                        Little Finger is manipulative but she agreed to go along with the plan for the sake of vengeance and she knew what it meant.

                        I'm getting pretty sick of people calling me a sexist/implying that I condone rape just for entertaining the thought that people in a completely different world in a completely different universe where marriage is often more like owning a wife than being in a partnership would have different views and morals than us when it comes to defining what constitutes rape.

                        [–]kenman884 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Twenty-firth.

                        [–]Karmaisforsuckers -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        What happened in the book?

                        [–]rammerpilkington [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        I don't watch GoT. Can you summarise?

                        コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                          [–]mrbigglessworth 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Was such a ruckus made when that Drogo guy fucked Khaleesi a few seasons ago? She seemed to not like that very much.

                          [–]MightyMorph 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          he was big muscly, handsome and not white. (it matters to these idiots)

                          [–]grubas 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          Partially the changes, raping Sansa was a huge change, Reek was deeply implied to have it cut off, but unless you really dig for evidence you don't know if Ramsey take the whole package or just his balls.

                          For book fans I understand, if you've been watching the same, Cersei got martially raped. Brienne gets threatened with rape about 80 times. Roose raped Ramsey's mother while her husband was hanging from a tree. They say Rhaegar went and raped Ned's sister. Dany is questionable, this is absolutely nothing new.

                          [–]AdvocateForLucifer 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          They didn't show Reek having his dick cut off on camera. You didn't have to listen to him screaming about it. I think there wouldn't be so much outcry if they only implied Sansa's rape, instead of making us listen to her moans.

                          [–]artificial3089 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I made this point as a counter-argument on Facebook and got bombarded with "he deserved it" from everybody participating. Obviously nobody was around for any of his story arc where he was forced into being somebody he's not, resulting in his capture and torture.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (46 返事)

                            [–]joelthezombie15 192ポイント193ポイント  (34子コメント)

                            Its like people dont understand that this show is kind of based on renaissance times when shit like this happened.

                            Also its a fucking TV show.

                            And nobody likes Ramsay so its not like anyone is going to see him as a role model.

                            They just want something to bitch about.

                            [–]CintasTheRoxtar 54ポイント55ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            I don't like Ramsey per se, but I find him entertaining

                            [–]joelthezombie15 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Ya he can be entertaining but no one looks up to him.

                            And honestly if anyone thinks what he does is ok or something cool to do would probably do terrible shit on their own.

                            [–]ponchothecactus 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            I feel like the actor who plays Ramsay would be awesome to hang out with just because he can play a character who is that crazy as well as he does

                            [–]LlamaswithMachetes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Check out Misfits if you haven't already. The actor who plays Ramsay is in it and he's quite good.

                            [–]kingwi11 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I was actually sad that they killed Goffery

                            [–]Davesan111 30ポイント31ポイント  (16子コメント)

                            I like Ramsay he is just so fitting as heir of Dreadfort. He is crazy as fuck, just look at this, it's perfect. http://i.imgur.com/4f0EIIl.gif

                            [–]Squelcher121 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            You are now a moderator of /r/Dreadfort.

                            [–]wildcard1992 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            Roose is more fitting IMO. He is cold as fuck and really smart to boot. He is sly and scheming and plays the game well.

                            Ramsay on the other hand is a psychopath who engages in reckless behaviour with little regard for the well being of his house. He was only de-bastardised as an act of desperation on Roose's part after his trueborn son died.

                            [–]peachesgp 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Well, Roose can't really be fitting as heir to the Dreadfort, as he is the Lord of the Dreadfort. But yeah, Ramsay isn't as good as Roose is, that's the point.

                            [–]Davesan111 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I see your point, thinking about it I don't think that Ramsay would be able to maintain House Boltons power, after his fathers death.

                            [–]tityboi90 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Well, Roose is a psychopath too.

                            [–]bikkebakke 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            With the exception that he can control himself, something Ramsay have a hard time doing.

                            [–]joelthezombie15 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

                            I like him to but he really isnt a role model and thats the point im trying to make. He is a really good and interesting character though.

                            [–]Davesan111 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            To be honest, if you are looking for role models GoT isn't fitting, the majority of characters is either crazy, fucked-up, selfish or treacherous. The others unfortunately meet an untimely end or have a bad time in general. Exept Stannis the Mannis of course. All hail to the one true king. The night is dark and full of terrors.

                            [–]StickmanPirate[🍰] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Stannis and Brienne are probably the best role models on the show. Both fairly level headed, strong and with a good sense of justice.

                            Shame that Brienne is pretty much determined to kill him.

                            [–]Davesan111 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Luckily she currently is busy with not protecting Sansa.

                            [–]Mast3r0fPip3ts [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                            Stannis

                            Makes shadow babies with an evil witch to assassinate his younger brother

                            Captures his nephew in an attempt to sacrifice him to do it again

                            Why is everyone just completely okay with this? Are so many people being sarcastic with this Stannis the Mannis bullshit, and its just flying over my head, or are people just really ready to forgive this "greater good" mentality?

                            Stannis is NOT a role model. He's a jealous, easily manipulated prat, a murderer, and man who is willing to employ dark magic to achieve his ends, a kinslayer, and has all of the personality of a wet, lukewarm blanket. While he may play at wanting to bring justice to Westeros, he's just a child kicking and screaming because he feels entitled to the legacy of his brother's hard-earned throne. He wants to be in charge, and he's willing to go to shitty lengths to do it.

                            [–]scarsAndFlames 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            the besteros of westeros

                            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                              [–]Locksfromtheinside 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              This. I don't understand how people are all up in arms over this scene and saying it reinforces rape culture. I think this scene actually did the opposite. The scene was disgusting and offensive, as it was meant to be. It was done to show how fucked up and twisted Ramsey is and make you hate him even more. It didn't glorify or trivialize rape at all. So it's like, "Were you offended and disgusted by the scene? Good. You were supposed to be."

                              So if anything, it shows how disgusting rape is. Showing a rape scene does not automatically make something pro-rape.

                              People are fucking morons and need something to bitch about every week.

                              [–]ElephantBoness 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              one argument I heard was that men were raped just as much as women in these times. Is this true, because if it is, it kind of makes the 'it happened in history' argument redundant

                              [–]tityboi90 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Men are always raped everywhere as a form of dominance and humiliation, but everyone thinks it's funny, not serious

                              [–]IlllllIIlllIIllIIIII 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              But by recognizing that sexual assault occurs we're just promoting rape. That's why no one should ever talk about rape for any reason and it should be illegal to even claim that it occurs. That will fix it.

                              [–]Ausrufepunkt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              The Sopranos also had a rape scene, that was like over 10 years ago

                              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                [–]fanman1234 32ポイント33ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                Took me a second to recognize her... Breaking Bad, bitch!

                                [–]Steffinily 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                This is from Don't Trust the B.. in Apartment 23. Its actually a great show. Watch it! Its on Netflix.

                                [–]twoworldsin1 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                Jane's character arc in that show was SO sad...which sucks, because I totally wanna nail her. Kinda goth-looking, looks like she might be an undercover freak...aw yiss.

                                [–]Vice5772 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                Yeah, but her arc was so important to the wedge between you-know-who and you-know-who.

                                [–]marcuschookt 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                Voldemort had a real problem with his split personalities close to the end

                                [–]SomeoneCutCarlsHair 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                He who must not say my name.

                                Wait, what.

                                [–]spasm01 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                She is great in veronica mars as a rich vapid popular girl

                                [–]Rawmin 73ポイント74ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                We need to stop referring to these people as feminists, there are actual feminists with legitimate values that are undercut by being associated by this new breed of stupid. I vote for "Fauxminism".

                                [–]fantasma4 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                Social Justice Warriors is the colloquial term these days

                                [–]habs76 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                the term social justice warrior is the worst thing to happen to the Internet. it's overused to mean pretty much everyone

                                [–]bobsbakedbeans 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Agreed - I think it's like the term "hipster", where nobody knows anyone who actually fits the definition, but it's used to group together a whole set of undesirable traits that rarely occur in one person

                                [–]fantasma4 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                It's used to insult anyone who has those sort of qualities, it's overuse makes it a problem but if we make a new term it'd have the same problem

                                [–]psuedopseudo 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I don't like this kind of thinking. Why are these people not actual feminists? How large does a subgroup have to be before you can't just ignore that they are a part of the movement?

                                Every group has extremists who they don't approve of - just look to religions and political parties for obvious examples. But they don't get to say, "oh WBC aren't really Christians" or "oh, Tsarnaev isn't really a Muslim," so let's just pretend they aren't part of our group with "legitimate values." Why do social movements get the special ability to say all these crazy people aren't really part of our cause?

                                Maybe social movements should denounced these kinds of people instead of just pretending they aren't a problem or that they don't exist. That would probably be better for everyone. But when I rarely hear "actual" feminists getting upset about the "breed of stupid," as you call it, I question whether the silence actually means tacit agreement for many people.

                                [–]boolean_sledgehammer 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                I finally get it!

                                Whatever makes feminism look good = "real feminism."

                                Thanks for clearing that up.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                                  [–]Spacegod87 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I haven't read anything like that, but I have seen a ton of Reddit posts complaining about it.

                                  [–]Publius952 27ポイント28ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                  It's not like game of thrones is condoning rape nor or the people committing thr act likeable. There is no glorification of the act at all. These people complaining always need to find away to continue the movement through this method.

                                  [–]PapaJacky 19ポイント20ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                  There are many arguments against that scene that were just more than the fact that it happened. If you read through the post-episode discussion thread, you'd see what I mean. One of the most upvoted comments (it's still pretty buried but hey) in opposition to that scene was that it wasn't the fact that a rape occurred but rather who it occurred to (Sansa), as in the books, AFAIK, she doesn't get raped. The reason why this line of thinking exists is because GOT spent roughly a season's worth of episodes transforming Sansa from being the helpless victim she was for 3+ seasons to a player in the GOT and the rape pretty much stops that progression in character (at least for now). And of course, because most people sympathize with the Starks, anytime anything bad happens to them, most people will not like it. It's basically like if Arya got her shit pushed in after all the character building she's done. Just disappointment, really.

                                  There's also another line of argument that may or may not be from the same thread (I forget) but it basically has to deal with the laziness in the writers. Essentially, their argument was that they were afraid that Sansa's rape would be analogous to Cersei's rape in Season 4. What they don't like about that was that in Cersei's rape, the rape basically did nothing at all plot wise and only served, if anything, to diminish Jaime's character. And for the more cynical, all it really did was to shock/wake-up the audience. They're afraid that Sansa's rape would be the same, where she'd get raped just to really hammer down how fucked up Ramsay is and not have the rape actually be of story consequence. But of course, that is just a fear some people have, as the consequences of Sansa's rape has yet to be shown to us.

                                  So really, what I'm saying is that people are mad at that scene for many reasons. Some of them have to do on principle, some of them have to do on what's perceived as bad writing on the show's part, and still some have to do with the fear of the showrunners using rape as an inconsequential shock-device.

                                  [–]Bindibus 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  The reason why this line of thinking exists is because GOT spent roughly a season's worth of episodes transforming Sansa from being the helpless victim she was for 3+ seasons to a player in the GOT and the rape pretty much stops that progression in character (at least for now).

                                  Rape can happen to tough, strong women as well, friend.

                                  [–]Bazofwaz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  I think that's exactly his point. GoT ignored that a little bit in their framing, seems to be where he's going.

                                  [–]Bindibus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I didn't think you could infer that from the way it was framed, rather we'll have to wait for the next episode to see how that affects her as a person, but then again that's just my way of viewing this particular issue.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                    [–]Vice5772 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                    And furthermore, it's fiction and art. Art imitates life, thus it's inevitable to have art that depicts the tragedy of rape. It's almost as if SJWs want the entire aspect of tragedies removed from acting so that their feelings are maintained.

                                    [–]HomoSatanCommieTroll [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    But fiction and art are generally open to criticism, right?

                                    I mean, I haven't seen anyone calling for censoring it, just saying that they're disappointed and/or will stop watching or supporting the series. Which is a reasonable response when a series you like goes in a direction you don't like.

                                    [–]TrantaLocked 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    Also, why do they even watch Game of Thrones? It's 5 seasons in...how did you not realize it would hurt your feelings from the first episode?

                                    [–]SirWinstonFurchill 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    My aunt, who loves fantasy anything, watched the first half if the first episode and said, "sorry, it's not for me." And I can respect that. She knew what it would be and that it wasn't for her. She has since read the first few books and enjoys them, but said she definitely couldn't stomach seeing the killing and rape on a screen in front of her. That's just how she is - how hard is it to be even remotely self aware?

                                    [–]Nick-Cage 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    link to these voices?

                                    [–]I0xD 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Oh fuck. I forgot I had an episode to watch!

                                    [–]Vice5772 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    And there's another one tomorrow, so it's like back-to-back episodes for you, you lucky dog.

                                    [–]ConcedeDota 23ポイント24ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                    All I see is reactionary posts... No feminists actually complaining.

                                    Do you follow obscure nobodies in Twitter?

                                    [–]habs76 26ポイント27ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    this is all reddit does complain about shit that barely even exists

                                    [–]aphitt 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Like Fox News...

                                    [–]Bull3tM0nk3y 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    War on Meat, Atheism, Men, Free Speech...

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                                      [–]mikerhoa 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      That episode sucked even without that stupid (and unnecessary) scene.

                                      The water gardens battle in Dorne was a fucking soft shoe routine...

                                      [–]kayylee 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Agreed. They could have done so much more with that scene. The acting felt forced, and all that leading up to the fight you'd think it would have been more exciting. Also, maybe it was just me, but Elia's reaction to being captured was just so underwhelming. She didn't even seem surprised (but maybe this has a plot purpose).

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                        [–]grantishere 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Where could I find these arguments?

                                        [–]zorak303 29ポイント30ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                        I'm just tired of rape being used as a device to force the viewer to either pity a character or hate a bad guy. It's just a cheap shortcut that is kinda played out. Maybe they could add a Wilhelm scream or two next time during a rape scene to show exactly how trite it is.

                                        [–]carrotworrior 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        While were at it, Murder is such a cheap plot device as well. All it does is force the viewer to miss the dead characters or hate the murderer. I don't think anyone else in Game of Thrones should kill each other anymore... it's just so cliche.

                                        [–]Jscotto320 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        This is Tyrion style sarcasm.

                                        [–]jonnyd005 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Words are such a cheap plot device, they shouldn't speak anymore.

                                        [–]thermidorian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                        Love stories are just a cheap plot device. They're just there to get us to care about two people because we can relate to their feelings and love is a fundamental part of the human experience. We should get rid of them too. They're just so trite.

                                        [–]Sawgon 10ポイント11ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        Well, the show is set during a more primitive time. That was a thing then.

                                        What I'm wondering is why are people now getting angry about rape in Game of Thrones? The show started with Daenerys getting raped by Khal Drogo.

                                        [–]SpikePilgrim 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        Rape is a thing now, too. Which is why people are tired of seeing it used as a trite shock device.

                                        There were plenty of people who hated the Dany rape scene. I don't know many book readers that weren't disturbed by the show's portrayal. But the GOT wasn't as big when that happened so there was as big of an outcry. But the cumulative effect of all of these unnecessary rape scenes wears on you, which is what I think Zorak303 is saying.

                                        And really, you can defend or hate the Sansa scene if you want, but this massive circlejerk against people who were uncomfortable watching a 14 year old be raped is getting outrageous.

                                        [–]Sawgon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Yeah I get what you mean. Unfortunately that is what things were like back in the day. Obviously not saying rape is good or defending the Sansa scene. In fact, I'm mainly a book reader and it wasn't even in the books.

                                        And Dany was 13 I think in the book when she 'married' Khal Drogo.

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                              [–]MattheJ1 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Oh boy, someone used the f-word.

                                              Shitstorm inbound...

                                              [–]drylube 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              braceyourselves.jpg

                                              [–]mylolname 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                              Did they not see the episode where that guy raped his sister in front of her dead sons body?

                                              [–]Sykotik 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              I just ask them if they remember this.

                                              [–]marcuschookt 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              OP's reaction when he wanders into the thread he's responsible for

                                              [–]Mrjordanp 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                              Dude gets his dick chopped off and it's fine just fine. Man, fuck a 3rd wave feminist!

                                              [–]itaShadd 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                              Please don't, she wouldn't shut up about it.

                                              [–]Electroverted 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              She'd carry a mattress around everywhere and get you in trouble.

                                              [–]agoddamnlegend -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              Definitely don't fuck a feminist. She'll almost definitely accuse you of rape and do some shit like carry a mattress around campus for years.

                                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                                [–]SpikePilgrim 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Funny, this is my reaction to massive reddit circlejerk in support of that scene. Thrilled to see it's bleeding over into /r/Reactiongifs now.

                                                [–]Vik1ng 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpjoiZiAkzs

                                                [–]hpstg [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                There are no arguments, just statements. And those people are feminists as much as that crazy family are Christians.

                                                コメントをもっと表示する (110 返事)