評価の高い 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Dodg3m 2814 ポイント2815 ポイント  (329子コメント)

I assume you'll be permabanning these YouTubers who have been proven to manipulate votes on their content?

[–]PerfectlyClear 366 ポイント367 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Admins handle vote manipulation

[–]jaynay1 268 ポイント269 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Except in Richard Lewis' case.

Not that that doesn't make sense since it's not an active user of the site brigading, but rather external brigading, but still. If it comes down to it, the mods are enabled to do something about it as evidenced here, but it's ideal that the admins are the ones taking the action.

[–]TheEnigmaBlade(NA)[M] 1358 ポイント1359 ポイント  (276子コメント)

Quietly as we do with most bans, yes.

[–]xinater 234 ポイント235 ポイント  (139子コメント)

what about streamers such as nightblue? ive seen him on two occassions post a thread he made in his chat, telling people to "upvote for visibility"

[–]picflutepicflute (NA)[M] 358 ポイント359 ポイント  (84子コメント)

Could you report it and send us evidence of this?

[–]xinater 75 ポイント76 ポイント  (59子コメント)

this happened 1-2 months ago, the only evidence i would be able to find is a vod of him saying it on his stream, and im not too keen on looking for that. needle in a haystack

[–]Nightblue3 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I've never asked my viewers to upvote a thread. You may have misunderstood linking my thread / linking topic of discussion in the chat as requesting upvotes? Linking my own thread or topic of discussion is allowed by the League subreddit, and I've openly done this on twitter/facebook like all other thread creators have done.

I rarely post on this subreddit anyways, but if you plan on making future accusations about me here please prepare evidence or proof. There's been way too many false accusations floating around this subreddit lately.

[–]watabadidea 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I try to stay out of subreddit drama so not too up to date on most of rules as to what counts as vote brigading and the like, but it seems like explicitly asking for votes one way or the other isn't the standard being used.

For instance, in all the tweets linked by the OP, Lewis doesn't explicitly ask for votes a single time that I saw, although I may have missed it.

Additionally, the "warning" they linked to show that this type of moderation is not a new thing but something with precedent contains the passage:

Stop calling in your Twitter army when you don't like the way that a comment thread is going for you. Yes, you're not explicitly asking for votes, but you are definitely asking for support. You're not dumb, you know perfectly well what's going to happen when you link to a thread while complaining about how all the meanies on reddit don't agree with you.

I don't automatically agree with this sentiment but, as another prominent LoL public figure, can you give your opinion on it? What kind of standards, if any, should be placed on when it is and isn't permitted to link threads here on outside media sources?

[–]cayneloop 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

haven`t seen a single topic with his content here, ever

yet sky reaction videos show up like fuking mushrooms

[–]EnadZT 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is that really vote manipulation? Huh.

[–]Koffi_Annan 449 ポイント450 ポイント  (46子コメント)

I'm not sure I agree with the quietly bit. Why make bans of prominent content creators quiet? It just wastes time for people trying to post their content. Not only that but I think it would help make things a bit more transparent around here. I don't think you should do this for every random joe, but people should know when a content creator with a decent following has had their content censored.

[–]Dashinize[Dashinize] (NA) 270 ポイント271 ポイント  (33子コメント)

Why? Are you saying they should make a thread saying "Hey, this guy is bad, make fun of him for being banned"?

If they have a decent enough following, then it will be fairly obvious very quickly that they, or their content or even both were banned. No need to cause even more drama.

[–]Koffi_Annan 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I don't feel that having a thread about it adds drama. It's the same way that riot gives out their decisions when they fine or ban someone from the competitive scene in a way. Pointing out why content creators are banned not only acts as a deterrent to people thinking of trying the same thing but also allows the community to discuss a potentially unfair ban of content (not saying that this is or isn't one).

[–]Baofog 92 ポイント93 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Vote brigading is reddit admin territory. If there is substantial enough evidence the admins will quietly shadow-ban the accounts and they won't make a post about it.

[–]Ballor_I[Rsballor] (EU-W) 92 ポイント93 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Just saying, that's in the hands of the site admins, not the mod team

[–]Horoism 74 ポイント75 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Could ban their content from this subreddit ;)

[–]offer100 184 ポイント185 ポイント  (29子コメント)

One small though important question:

Are guest appearances of RL, like Unfiltered or the interviews of Thooorin also banned, or can content creators bring him in?

[–]Enearde 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (24子コメント)

My understanding of this post lead me to think that it's fine if Richard Lewis is a guest, this ban only targets Richard Lewis' content, it would be unfair to ban other content creators, affiliate or not, from this subreddit as long as they are respecting the rules even if they host a show with R.L. as a guest. As stated in this post, as long as it is not perceived as a way for R.L. to promote or submit his content in this sub, circumventing the ban, it should be fine. I'ld advise to contact the mod team beforehand just in case.

[–]xNicolex(EU-W) 1104 ポイント1105 ポイント x2 (388子コメント)

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 735 ポイント736 ポイント  (23子コメント)

@ggCMonteCristo

2015-04-22 08:55 UTC

I am quite sad to see the @RLewisReports ban on the LoL Reddit. He brings many important and meaningful stories to light.


@ggCMonteCristo

2015-04-22 09:06 UTC

Without @RLewisReports we miss out on discussing very important stories, such as the issues of agencies in eSports:

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/twitch-good-game-talent-license/


@ggCMonteCristo

2015-04-22 09:07 UTC

That article, a piece of thought-provoking journalism, is no longer allowed on the LoL Reddit.


@MarcelFeldkamp

2015-04-22 08:44 UTC

Not so sure what to think about @RLewisReports being banned from subreddit, guy has some unpopular opinion but noone can deny his importance


@MarcelFeldkamp

2015-04-22 08:45 UTC

If it wasn't for him noone of us still had a clue what's going on in some of these organizations behind closed doors.


@dooraven

2015-04-22 08:44 UTC

You can disagree with a person's content all you want but banning it outrageous. A major line has been crossed.


@wildhawklol

2015-04-22 08:09 UTC

With Richard Lewis banned and his supporters pronounced "hate brigades", mods are now in full control of the narative on the subreddit.


@lolFroskurinn

2015-04-22 07:59 UTC

Tall is defined by short, fat by skinny. The mods need RL; he is the Joker to their Batman.

What will they do with all their free time?


@ESHDrexxin

2015-04-22 07:50 UTC

Seeking dank members for my new ranked squad HMU [Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]


@ESHDrexxin

2015-04-22 08:15 UTC

The problem doesn't fully lie in the attitude of the elites, but the expectations for them to also be demigods of behavioral discipline.


@esportsLawEU

2015-04-22 08:09 UTC

I strongly disagree with the @RLewisReports reddit ban: http://www.np.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/33g6xs/subreddit_ruling_richard_lewis/cqkmhud


@karonmoser

2015-04-22 07:44 UTC

Next we must remove the permalink function on the subreddit to stop vote brigade harassment.


@karonmoser

2015-04-22 07:46 UTC

Just saying "vote brigade harassment" aloud makes me laugh.


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[–]llllllillllllilllllj 386 ポイント387 ポイント  (186子コメント)

https://twitter.com/mbCARMAC/status/590822354244268032

ad this one please head of ESL should carry weight

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 362 ポイント363 ポイント  (34子コメント)

@mbCARMAC

2015-04-22 10:20 UTC

Ban @RLewisReports for breaking guidelines etc. but let your community decide what's relevant to them.


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[–]StrafeYeh 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Would say this is the best post so far.

[–]RIPtopsy 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (20子コメント)

The whole issue with vote brigading is that it undermines the communities ability to decide what's relevant to them.

[–]lazarony 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I personally can't stand Richard Lewis...but banning his content is definitely a step too far.

[–]BShadowJ 210 ポイント211 ポイント  (16子コメント)

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 166 ポイント167 ポイント  (15子コメント)

@Thooorin

2015-04-22 11:18 UTC

I will never be in favour of banning relevant content. Can think of almost no circumstances in which it would be warranted.


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[–]RawRanger 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Just yesterday Thooorin realese video "The No Man", saying inter alia about being vocal when shit happens. Today shit happens.

[–]Corkidid911 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree entirely with these tweets, having moderators outright ban RL's content seems like crossing a major line. Having seen what happens when subreddits go down this path I can say it doesn't end well for anyone. This decision needs to be rethought.

[–]mbCARMAC 462 ポイント463 ポイント  (29子コメント)

How does banning content that may be relevant and valuable to the LoL community help you protect this sub's community?

Isn't your community supposed to have the power to decide what's relevant to them (after it passes the guidelines check)?

Removing all of RL's content automatically regardless of its relevance seems like brigading and witch hunt to me. I don't see how RL's articles outside of reddit have anything to do with your role as a moderator of this sub.

I'm not really on friendly terms with RL, but this here thing is petty and wrong.

[–]A_Wild_Blue_Card 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know that RL recently released an article that wasn't too good for the IEMs. Kudos for being big enough to still speak up.

I agree wholeheartedly that this is a with-hunt. It is essentially bad mouthing an individual and his content in a forum of over half a million by those in a position of power. To take away from so much discussion just devalues this forum.

[–]Papaya_Dreaming 186 ポイント187 ポイント  (19子コメント)

inb4 Lichard Rewis, completely different and unique journalist.

[–]xgenoriginal 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Lichard Rewis vs BrittishTerran

[–]thewoodenchair 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (7子コメント)

List of Usernames I Could Use on Reddit:

Richard Lewis

Lichard Rewis

Lewis Richard

Rewis Lichard

Siwel Drahcir

KoreanTerranSux

[–]xRMJL 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has some names prepared i think. Ricardo Luis, the portuguese Journalist. and Richard louis the french Journalist.

[–]Bezant 788 ポイント789 ポイント  (171子コメント)

I get a way too personal vibe from this out of the mods. Guess it's too much to expect pure objectivity from volunteers when they're dragged into it.

[–]Dakaraim 388 ポイント389 ポイント  (105子コメント)

Maybe, but rl seems to try to make these things personal so he has nobody else but himself to blame.

[–]GamepadDojo[TheMirai] (NA) 137 ポイント138 ポイント  (29子コメント)

I don't think you can link to the mods on your verified Twitter with 24,000 followers and talk shit about them without it becoming personal.

Also, calling the community "Brainwashed" and "assclown" doesn't help either.

[–]redwings159753 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (25子コメント)

I 100% agree. All the people claiming mods can't be personal about this need to realize RL was the reason it feels personal.

[–]GamepadDojo[TheMirai] (NA) 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (10子コメント)

As a fellow writer Lewis really needs to grow up and realize you actually don't have to reply to every single person who says things about you.

Like, it's okay, lots of people won't like you. You can let those people go.

[–]nimbustwothousand 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I think people also need to realise the mods are average people like the rest of us and they volunteer to do this. If I were in a mod's shoes - particularly KT or one of the others being singled out by RL - I'd have resigned my post as moderator, deleted my account, and also deleted every other trace of that username on the internet. Seriously. He's a fucking psycho. He has no right to behave the way he behaves and make people feel unsafe.

[–]redwings159753 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (8子コメント)

And here we come to the heart of the problem. If RL had been a reporter for a "real" sport such as baseball, and was employed but a company such as ABC or the like, this type of behavior would lead to his being fired and never hired by any competing company. Just because Esports is driven by the internet doesn't mean the professionals within the global business of Esports can act like this. If Esports is serious about being taken seriously by other sports, then people like RL have no place in the profession and behavior such as his is completely unacceptable. The other journalist defending him need to realize that yes we have a right to say whatever we want, but if you want to keep your job/livelihood, you really can't say whatever you want. This is how works in the real world. You can not insult your customers and your employers and expect no backlash. I know he doesn't work for reddit, but reddit does give his work attention.

[–]Neztopesk 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously, the way he handled these situations was so childish. He's literally bullying children. I don't see why he, as a successful content creator, reacts to the tiniest bit of negative feedback anyway, especially in such a brutal manner. Any other industry and he would have been kicked out in a heartbeat.

[–]snackies 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Also I mean, at NO point has he just taken a single step back and said "I've gone too far and said some things I shouldn't say, this is my public apology for XYZ."

It would be so much easier for him if he wasn't a giant egomaniac honestly. He never even said sorry after he told the guy to commit suicide after he dug through his history and found his post about being seriously depressed. If i'm not mistaken he actually committed suicide after Richard made that comment and he didn't make any sort of public apology.

This is why it's so hard to feel any sympathy for him or bad for him. He always defends this absolutely bullshit notion that "Oh I only care about the literal definition of professionalism which basically only asks if I can do my job correctly. Professionalism has nothing to do with behavior."

As a result he justifies just all of the shit that makes him a really shitty person. And yeah, he's made things personal.

[–]Dakaraim 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. I feel like Richard Lewis is a brilliant journalist and a social retard, an unfortunate combination that usually ends up like this

[–]Gennair 549 ポイント550 ポイント  (163子コメント)

Encase my thread gets deleted this is my view on the topic of content banning:

The rules of this subreddit are clearly stated in this page.

A post must be directly related to League of Legends. This line is what I come to the League of Legends subreddit for. I come here to view the highest valued LoL content as deemed by the community through the upvote/downvote system provided by Reddit. This is the sole purpose of the subreddit.

It is the moderators job to see that only posts that a related League of Legends are allowed to stay on the subreddit. This allows for a cleaner much more viewable page. It is also the moderators job to remove hate and harmful comments or threads. It is stated in the rules of the subreddit that posts, comments and submissions that are abusive, personal attacks, hateful or harassment will not be tolerated and I stand behind this 100%. That is why I also stand behind the ban of Richard Lewis's reddit ACCOUNTS 100%.

However, what I do not stand behind is the banning of League of Legends Content produced by him. If this content was to break the rules of the subreddit IE. it was hateful, personal or harassment then it should be taken down just like any other post. However, if this content fufills the requirements laid down in the rules of the subreddit and is directly related to League of Legends it should be allowed to stay the same as any other post.

This lead me to talk about how Reddit works for a non-moderator user. We have 3 choices when we see a piece of content. We can upvote if we believe others would benefit from seeing it. We can do nothing if we feel the content isnt something we would want but maybe others would. Or we can down vote showing that we dont believe this content should be on the page.

That is it. If we are not allowed to even have this one simple choice guaranteed to us throughout the entirety of the Reddit website then I believe the moderation needs to change. As a Reddit user I want to decide what content should be upvoted and downvoted. By stripping us of this basic right we can not accomplish the goal of this subreddit.

The mods should remove abusive or unrelated content that is not an issue. However removing content that is not abuse and is DIRECTLY RELEVANT to League of Legends should NOT be an acceptable practice.

[–]canyounot213 318 ポイント319 ポイント  (59子コメント)

The goal of this subreddit is what the moderators want it to be. Reddit is not a democracy, you are free to start your own subreddit if you don't agree with what's going on here.

I know I'll be downvoted for this, but it needs to be said since some people seem to misunderstand how Reddit works.

EDIT: Relevant part from Reddit's faq:

http://www.reddit.com/wiki/faq#wiki_what_if_the_moderators_are_bad.3F

Please keep in mind, however, that moderators are free to run their subreddits however they so choose so long as it is not breaking reddit's rules. So if it's simply an ideological issue you have or a personal vendetta against a moderator, consider making a new subreddit and shaping it the way you'd like rather than performing a sit-in and/or witch hunt.

[–]Synavix 145 ポイント146 ポイント  (7子コメント)

To add to this, moderators setting rules is 100% necessary to running a subreddit this size without it turning to shit. You can probably get away with very lenient rules and lack of mod interaction on small subreddits, but the larger it is the harder it is to keep content on topic. A lot of people who are screaming censorship because of enforcing the rules have probably not spent a lot of time trying to moderate somewhere like this. I spent a lot of time moderating a forum for a large gaming site a few years back, and it was probably only 25-40% actual "moderation" and 60%+ setting rules and deciding what should or should not be allowed.

The reddit vote system is great, in a perfect world. In the real world, it's too easily abused and does not work on its own.

Here is a great example of mods trying to let the upvote/downvote system do its work without intervention:

http://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/2f7qog/classic_in_2012_f7u12_began_a_month_of_no/

The tl;dr of it is that it doesn't work, and you quickly get swamped with crap. If /r/leagueoflegends tried to go mod-free for a month, we'd see a frontpage full of CLG memes and joke content.

[–]OmiC 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (4子コメント)

There's a reason /r/AskHistorians is widely considered one of the best subreddits on the site; it's because the moderators there are some of the strictest. Obviously it's not possible to be quite that strict on a subreddit like this, but generally more strict = better.

[–]sunzitaow 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they are one of the most consistent modteams aswell though, which is the issue this shit is really all about

[–]laxrulz777[Seminole Sun] (NA) 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Do you think it's time for a LEAGUEOFLEGENDSNEWS subreddit? Only articles, blog posts, interviews and other journalistic endeavors are allowed?

[–]SrewTheShadow[Voakoa] (NA) 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Create it. You're totally allowed to. Getting traction going owuld be the hard part.

[–]ForteEXE[Chrysalis Navita] (NA) 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Reddit is not a democracy, you are free to start your own subreddit if you don't agree with what's going on here.

I like that. I'm going to use it more, especially in certain areas!

No, really, I don't get why people think this is a case of free speech, or nazi mods.

Relevant XKCD as always

[–]xkcd_transcriber 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Image

Title: Free Speech

Title-text: I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 1329 times, representing 2.1826% of referenced xkcds.


xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

[–]Kogling 213 ポイント214 ポイント  (85子コメント)

You have to first ask why Richard Lewis is drawn here despite the "im such a victim"?

Despite people having large twitter followings, youtube subscriptions etc, this subreddit is far more popular than these individual sources. It's an easy resource to gain viewership and large income without the 5+ years effort in building a large following.

Someone else has done all the effort of providing a platform and running a popular site where content sharing is allowed - content diversity which is one of the reasons why this site is so popular, because many voids are filled and where one person may not be interested in xyz content, would view it if it hits front page.

This is why Travis and many others have been banned and slapped on the wrist multiple times for cheating the system, why there are groups of people vote manipulating, why people try to use every trick in the book just to get front page. Hell, you have Travis who I would say is quite arrogant of his position, deleting a submission that wasn't very successful and had many people complaining of audio quality - his response? simply reposting it knowing his followers will upvote it and he got his expected front page but that is "in the rules".

Richard, like most content creators are drawn here for monetary gains - regardless or not this was the case when they started out. When you turn a hobby in to a job /for profit, finding ways to bring in more money is just a part of that business. The problem often is just the lack of morals /ethics in most of them, and when you're highly reliant on a subreddit for your income, you start thinking you own it and their attitude often sours regardless of whether their capable of being a nice human being in person.

The only reason he came here was for profit. Abusive, threatening behavior isnt necessary, hell, he doesnt even need to post at all but he did, and he had a disregard for this site, it's rules and general etiquette. Simply banning him for abusive behavior is pretty standard and yet he kept at it, however he went way over the line and really, what can one do when, despite having a ban, has a lingering connection to here because content can be posted by others, and he feels he has an entitlement to be involved /respond to people?

Banning all his content is logical - he'll either just continue his poor behavior and be a troll that doesn't profit from the community he bashes, or you allow it and he'll so self deluded that he's right because he profiting from the community and he's banned cause mod are horrible people and he's a victim.

Just as bad when Joe Miller was crying about "police brutality" threatening to sue the police and that "all police are bastards" . Far from victims of anything - just bitter of a little bit of man handling when being unreasonable.

[–]bluestreek 99 ポイント100 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Doing this is literally the only way you could get people to actually defend RL. This is fucking hilarious.

[–]SovereignHunter[Shananigans] (NA) 787 ポイント788 ポイント  (152子コメント)

I'm a little more than confused by this. As far as I can tell linking reddit via twitter and expressing your frustrations with people is not something that is against the rules. I understand that there is a conflict in that Richard published some work centered around the moderators and that claims have been made that he threatened doxx individuals but so far no evidence has been brought forward.

No one produces the type of content that Richard does at anywhere close to his level, so whom are you to decided whether or not a community driven website should be allowed to submit and vote on this content.

After all that has been said and done I don't blame Richard for his frustrations, he has provided evidence that shows he has and continues to be treated unfairly by the moderation team of this subreddit and I too have shared frustration when dealing with them. Koreanterran was someone who I personally found to be one of the most delusional and difficult people to converse with whenever I had interactions on this site with him and the information that was published only affirmed my opinions.

As for the comments listed above in the original post each of those links does not state anywhere where he asks people to vote on his behalf, and in reading the comments a lot of that the moderators state is just silly. Multiple times post have been removed from the front page with little to no immediate explanation meanwhile "shitposting" like the guy who said he is going to reach challenger is allowed. So if a member of the moderation team can explain to me how a guy stating a personal goal is more relative to League of Legends then things such as the WTFast scandal and the recent conflict of interest with Good Game and Twitch than please inform me.

I've grown continually more disappointed in what has become of this subreddit when the moderators seem to flex a personal agenda over the idea of a community driven forum in which we decide what content we would like to view. I can nearly grantee you that if the personal ban for flimsy reasons was not in place then Richard's content would continue to consistently reach the front page of the subreddit.

-I edited some spelling because even after 20 years of speaking and reading English I still can't spell delusional right the first time.

[–]jonate21 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (10子コメント)

As far as I can tell linking reddit via twitter and expressing your frustrations with people is not something that is against the rules.

It actually is. Totalbiscuit was previously warned by a site admin because of this: http://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1iqdc4/civilized_discussion_and_levelheaded_moderation/cb7eaul?context=1

Even if it is not explicitly asking for up- or downvotes it is still against the rules.

[–]andrechan 271 ポイント272 ポイント  (36子コメント)

As Thoorin stated my friend, this industry is full of yes men. There are no dark agendas here. Let's continue to feel good about ourselves and our esports.

All is good. All is well. There is only peace in Ba Sing Se.

[–]y1i 276 ポイント277 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Yes, and you're probably one of them, as you're mindlessly repeating points he said. Because here is what Thorin didn't mentioned in his video.

Edit for clarification: This next paragraph is not directed towards Thorin or RL specifically, just as Thorin didn't mentioned any specific names for yes or no men (except hotshotgg, but thats a different story). They just claim to be in a specific position, but fail to mention that this position includes more than they say. Draw your own conclusion, think for yourself.

I understand his concept of no men, but he "forgot" a very crucial point. When you're in a position where your voice and thoughts are heard by many people, it's important to stay with the story. Stick with the facts and information in context to the story. When you start twisting facts, only tell half the truth and leave other relevant context out to paint the story or person in specific light that suits your(!) personal agenda, you're not a no man. You are not voicing independent, critical thoughts coming from your clean and free from evil mind. You are just an asshole, trying to gain personal benefit by creating artificial drama where non exists. You are not a no men, you are just egocentric, selfish and provide nothing of value, hiding from relevant criticism in your own reality. Hiding behind "Oh, i'm critical and independent and you are not" is not valid, when the thoughts and opinions you put out are not only wrong, but absolutely meaningless. Being against something without a valid reason (and personal benefit is not a valid reason) is just as immoral as being a "yes men" (someone without an opinion).

[–]Ortopox 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think that's something that hasn't been strechted out enough.

Usually I get pretty suspicious if someone claims himself to be such a no man (as thorin does multiple times in his video). It's either a good PR gag and/or in fact it's a lie. It seemed that he wanted to create an image of being the lone rebel fighting the empire (I felt especially strong at the point where he talked about his past about how hard things were and how he got 'immune' to saying yes). It's just unbelivebale that something like this happens and often a sign of some kind of hybris to claim something like this.

But apart from that his point is still valid. That's what I like about his videos - I don't seem to agree with things he says on twitter etc. but his content is still legit.

By watching his video I think there was another huge flaw in his theory. To be able to create an own opinion you have to have diffrent arguments from other people (which are independent from each other) to wage them for yourself. I guess noone can disagree on that.

But here comes the problem: All experts that exist in LoL and have proven themselves to be good analysts all seem to be good friends with one another and all have a certain view on general topics as you can see by all their tweets shown in another comment in this thread. Best example would have been the 'spectate faker' drama where you got like three vlogs from those ppl and everyone was like: 'Wow so much content' while in the end they all had the same position just added some more points. Given this example was pretty obvious but still there was no real variety in the camp of the 'no mans'.

So in case someone of their 'group' gets called out for something (let's be real rl really started a hate campaign against the mods on twitter) all others jump in to (more or less strongly) 'protect' them.

To phrase my point in another way: There aren't enough sources of really independent experts in the LoL scene to be able to create an own opinion. It's not like in politics where you have a law and diffrent lobbys want diffrent things therefore you can hear both sides and come to a conclusion. The only possibilites to get infos I see in LoL esports are either the group of thorin,rl, monte, karonmoser etc. or from the side of Riot. While you can't really count on Riot content to have any depth, you are left with only one source of content which is pretty similiar in the general tone with here and there some small diffrences. I still have to see one big topic where e.g. thorin and monte (it's not only those two - just pick two others of the group) really share vastly diffrent opinions on and make them publically so someone has really a chance to be a no man.

As you said before - just repeating thorin's etc. words doesn't make you a no man. In fact I don't even think there is one no man alive in this world.

[–]y1i 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, and what you said is well thought out. Seeing more independent content creators would benefit the whole scene in general.

[–]JuanMore 520 ポイント521 ポイント  (109子コメント)

It be nice if he wasn't such a dipshit because I thought his content was pretty decent. Oh well

[–]Darelius 383 ポイント384 ポイント  (47子コメント)

Yeah, it was so damn hard to ever upvote him. You read the article and said oh wow this was a nice read, go into the comments section and without fail find him fighting with sharpness of a fifth grader revolting on the mud. And then you could only wonder if it was actually him writing.

[–]Baofog 150 ポイント151 ポイント  (23子コメント)

I suspect his editor deserves a Pulitzer or something for making his articles readable if his tweets and comments are anything to go by.

[–]Webemperor 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

He has a massive superiority complex that is nears god complex. Since some people have been calling the savior of esports or things like that, he thinks he is smarter than everyone and it's his god given role to educate the masses

[–]skabadelic[Young Spinach] (NA) 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It wasn't always a nice read. Frequently you could see a clear bias, especially with articles directed at or about Riot. It was just very annoying to read. He obviously has some major personality flaws that seeped into his writing sometimes. I tried as politely as I could to say I felt I read a bias in his article once. I was hours late and I had 0 upvotes at the bottom of the article. I come back later to see he personally replied to berate me and tell me that I had a personal problem. So weird.

[–]Darelius 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know, i have run into him too. Thats why i totally understand the ban, it wasnt that he had a few differences with some people, but that he actively seeked them. And posting pointblank links to answers of people that disagreed with him on his twitter, he didnt ask for downvotes, because he it wasnt needed.

[–]NSFWIssue 100 ポイント101 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I always think his content is great but I can honestly say I have never seen anyone get as angry and hateful as he does (did) routinely on Reddit

[–]DSA-Zocker 124 ポイント125 ポイント  (10子コメント)

He is also really hypocritical - he can insult whoever he wants but as soon as there is the slightest bit of criticism he loses his temper. Oh, and the whole case of "I got banned from this subreddit, they are all pathetic" but then blocking people on twitter for criticising his articles.

[–]skabadelic[Young Spinach] (NA) 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He also used the community to make his career, and then berated it with the back of his hand constantly. In his videos, on streams, etc…I honestly have some major issues with reddit myself. I just didn't like how hard he'd shit talk the entire community and then post the article here to make bank.

[–]iTomes 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Eh, his most recent content has taken a serious dive because he let his dipshittery get mixed into his professional work. He basically went on a vendetta against the mods and made content in order to reflect that.

Personally, I really dont think him and his content being gone is really a bad thing. If his content involves something relevant other writers will pick up on it, and if it doesnt I really dont see a reason for the mods to have to deal with his shit.

[–]Aeliandil 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Agree. His content is most of the time decent (if we except the articles that follow his ban), but the person himself is... not so decent.

[–]hydrogenc4r 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (7子コメント)

but u dont understand he was working on those for weeks and it was obviously a coincidence that they came out hours after he got banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–]rumblecore 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (14子コメント)

This made me extremely happy. I can't stand Richard Lewis' man-child attitude. When there was all that "Selfie/Kori drama" I've had a huge argument with him which ended up with him questioning my inteligence level and even my qualifications as a journalism student.

Before all that drama there was this article about Blizer (Kori's sub) leaving MYM "due to frustratrion and communication issues within the team" less than two weeks after MYM hired him and a huge post from Richard Lewis full of wrongful assumptions and misleading quotes from "sources" to support the initial article. I questioned him how could it be possible that a guy that was announced as a temporary sub wanted to leave the team for those reasons just after an handful of days and poited the fact that many of his claims were based on absolutely nothing... And he attacked me.

Then Kori came back and some e-sports website published the e-mail he sent to Riot asking for help. Some of the reasons he wanted to leave? Frustration and communication issues within the team. It became clear to me that thanks to their "sources", Daily Dot had all the story completely mixed up. Blizer was indeed just a temporary sub that left as soon as Kori came back. Not a single word from Richard Lewis on that day. And I was right the whole time...

[–]Suiiii 109 ポイント110 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I've been around in esports for 10 years and have known of RL since he wrote for the CSS community site Cadred.org back in like 2008. He's a great writer, definitely has accurate information on things but I've always had a major problem with his attitude and methods.

[–]InfestedTerran 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

JeSuisCharlie

Fuck Censorship

[–]Lenticious 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (189子コメント)

Well at least you made a post about it now... although he could just credit someone else on his 'content' when it's not a video...

[–]Koffi_Annan 122 ポイント123 ポイント  (28子コメント)

The real question I have is why it took a couple days to be made public. Any sort of reason EXCEPT the fact he is fully censored was used to remove posts with his content. Threads that were made asking why his content was being deleted were being deleted. This is the exact opposite of transparency that the mods have been talking about so much.

[–]jaykenton(EU-W) 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (24子コメント)

There are a lot of unwritten rules on this subreddit and I hate it. There are some topic that are taboo and we can't discuss about, only talking by pms.

[–]mynameisdavey 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In related news; Richard Lewis has successfully become /r/leagueoflegends Voldemort.

[–]HolypenguinHere(RU) 234 ポイント235 ポイント  (121子コメント)

Is it really fair to ban all content related to him? I guess we won't be getting anymore roster swap leaks or First Blood show. Also, none of those tweets posted as proof actually show him actively inciting any riots, just pointing out things. He's not controlling people's actions.

[–]shinzer0[Namkhaeng] (NA) 86 ポイント87 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Sorry but those tweets are clear-cut harassment. See that post on a similar situation by a reddit admin

Stop calling in your Twitter army when you don't like the way that a comment thread is going for you. Yes, you're not explicitly asking for votes, but you are definitely asking for support. You're not dumb, you know perfectly well what's going to happen when you link to a thread while complaining about how all the meanies on reddit don't agree with you.

[–]OPTLawyer(NA)[🍰] 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (8子コメント)

FYI: I'm like 95% positive that was in reference to TotalBiscuit. He was doing the exact same thing, posting links to comments on Twitter he thought were stupid and should be mocked without saying "go here and downvote this person," or linking to things he liked without saying "upvote this."

The Admin is correct though; if you link to anything on Twitter, your fans are going to hound it like rabid dogs. Period. Using the .np prefix is a start, but it's better to just...not in general.

[–]TuckerBishop[THIS IS FOR KABUM] (NA) 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Post a blurred imgur link. If you feel strongly that the content of a message is worth exposing, then it's irrelevant what random dipshit typed it up.

[–]Whytefang[adc] (NA) 114 ポイント115 ポイント  (31子コメント)

He was apparently given three warnings and a temp ban before being permanently banned.

He then started linking threads and posting messages that, while not explicitly asking for votes, are as close to asking for votes as you can get without actually doing it. You have a group of people who support some person; what do you think is going to happen when the person they support says "look how they're oppressing me!" and links to an area those people can have a tangible impact with their opinions? Lewis might be an ass, but he isn't stupid. There's no way he thinks "oh, my supporters definitely aren't going to just kneejerk react in my favor."

Personally I think it's entirely justified - and a long time coming, too.

[–]rasmustrew 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (38子コメント)

"Another day, another assclown thinking it benefits the community to shut down independent reporting - http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/32kvkk/holyphoenix_to_leave_dark_passage_garnering_lcs/cqc84j6 …"

This is absolutely a call for action against a user. Shit like this is not okay.

[–]Midknight226 88 ポイント89 ポイント  (20子コメント)

I don't have a huge problem with the tweets until he made a point to call out one individual person like that. That's uncalled for in any situation. He acts like a child and if he wants to free advertisement here then he should at a minimum behave like an civilized adult.

[–]WebLlama 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I am a journalist. This disturbs me greatly.

But before you reap your free gold and karma from another trash the mods post, can you answer me something?

WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO HERE?

You've got RL, and he's harassing people consistently. You do everything you can to get him to stop. Finally, he calls someone a loser for having suicidal thoughts. He gets banned.

But he doesn't stop harassing people for reddit posts.

Now he just tweets terrible things about redditors for comments on his content.

He's linking directly to people's posts for his sizeable twitter audience, while saying mean, personal things about the individual users. Sometimes he's just insulting their intelligence, but now there's no way to prevent him from crossing even the furthest lines of human decency, like say, mocking someone for considering suicide.

He's using outside platforms to direct hate and cruelty to redditors.

So how do you stop it? How do you create a sense that people can discuss content on the sub without the threat of being attacked by a large base of people who will cross any line?

To me, it's in the best interest of the sub to stop this behavior. It's in the best interest of the sub to make sure public figures aren't bullying everyday users, especially in ways that could have tragic, real life consequences.

As a journalist, I hate that actual journalism will be suppressed.

But I'd hate it more if RL was allowed to push someone over the edge, just because he sometimes knows when someone might change League of Legends teams.

This is not the world. It's an online community. We can set limits and rules here without destroying the free flow of information. We can make standards to prevent harassment and bullying without opening the door for any meaningful tyranny.

Should we? I don't know.

But I am wholly unwilling to listen to how "oppressive" and "terrible" the mods are being without hearing your alternative solution. I don't think the status quo is sustainable.

I don't think we can continue to allow a public figure to harass and attack individual users of this community while still reaping all the rewards of exposure in this community.

So, if not this, then what?

[–]thelonelyward3 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (28子コメント)

I'm so confused, the other day I saw a post that the mod team was afraid of being doxxed, and thats why the KoreanTerran mod stepped down, and now you guys are fighting against him? can someone explain.

[–]Echosniper 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

He stepped down because he was the Ghostcrawler of the sub-reddit.

He wanted to do this as a fun hobby, but with all that stress, it's just not worth it.

[–]Erelah 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (19子コメント)

KoreanTerran stepped down because he was doing the Lion's share of the work and he was tired of being a punching bag for the community. He had already been planning on stepping down for a long time, but he waited until the new moderators got settled in.

Also, Richard Lewis had gotten repeated warnings (that he got from lashing out at people who commented negatively on his articles and always ignored) and multiple temporary bans from the Moderators. Then he tried to lash out at the moderators and they banned his account from the subreddit. Lewis then tried to start his own subreddit (with blackjack and hookers and no Riot allowed); but the Reddit administrators decided they were tired of his shenanigans and IP banned him. THEN Richard Lewis got a friend to become a 'mole' in the moderating team, did a bunch of articles starting a witch hunt against the Mods, and started calling them corrupt. So, the moderator team just decided to ban ALL of Lewis's content because they're tired of him acting like a five-year old on a perpetual temper tantrum.

[–]ScrotalAgony 768 ポイント769 ポイント  (151子コメント)

We banned him for sustained abusive behavior after having warned him, warned him again, temp banned him, warned him again, which all finally resorted to a permaban.

I have little to no opinion on the guy but anyone who doesn't get the hint after this many warnings is probably someone we can live without.

[–]BurninTaiga 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (5子コメント)

[–]SamWhite 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Oh shit, I really hope they cover this as well. EsEx never fails to deliver.

[–]OmiC 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the Reddit thread to that article they mentioned that Richard got mad and doxxed them/wrote a whole long article exposing who was behind the site because he wanted to write for them and got denied. Ever since then he's been shitting on them on his twitter too.

[–]PM_ME_THE_BEST_STORY 232 ポイント233 ポイント  (45子コメント)

Agreed. Seriously as someone trying to be a "professional" in a field, how can you possibly think this could end well? He must really believe in the whole "no press is bad press," idea

[–]Reginault 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Yup, and if he valued the sub as a source of views he would have behaved better while using it. I expect this will be a major hit to his income/livelihood as the people interested in LoL news often rely on reddit to aggregate it. His fans can seek out his content where it's posted, and the rest of us can live without his vitriol and rumour-mongering.

[–]GamepadDojo[TheMirai] (NA) 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The dude has absolutely no filter, and that's in addition to his rather shitty attitude and his real axe to grind against anyone who slights him, IE Riot, some players, and anyone who states inaccurate information about his writing, ever.

Like I get the fear of banning all content from a writer but if it's going to create the situation of him tweeting a link to it, causing responses and backlash, then this is something he should have known better than to do.

[–]Pixelpaws 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (49子コメント)

This should probably get stickied, as I have a feeling it'll be downvoted into oblivion otherwise.

[–]naminekiari[sXeToma] (NA) 186 ポイント187 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Should not ban his content.

[–]LeagueOfDestiny 346 ポイント347 ポイント  (98子コメント)

This is bull crap.

I agree 100% with banning his reddit account. But this ban on his content hurts this subteddit and hurts this community.

Think of the MYM situation. What other journalist is going to report on that stuff? Really though, if there's a controversial story that may result in backlash from the community, who else is going to report on it? Another example is the reddit mods signing NDAs. While I agree it is not a huge deal they signed them, it's nice to know that they did. So again I ask, who else would have reported on that? Richard provides unique content and banning it hurts this community.

Also consider this. Richard's job is to write articles. While he is paid a salary and not paid by how many views his articles get - I'm sure that in the long run, the amount of views his articles get affects the kind of money he makes. So these volunteer mods that have no one to hold them accountable are able to hugely influence a man's livelihood because they don't like what's on his Twitter?

I do not support this.

P.S. Sorry for grammatical mistakes. It's late, and really this is a stupid time for the mods to post this.

Edit: I was wrong in saying that Richard Lewis broke the MYM story. While he wrote an article on it, he wasn't the one to break the story. However, in my opinion, Richard is still the best investigative journalist in the scene. Banning all of his content from this subreddit is a mistake and hurts the community.

[–]LukeEMD 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go onto the daily dot and read the article then if you want the content. It's the same fucking deal except he won't be making as much money because of his shit getting to front page every time. RL would have still won because he wouldn't have to argue with redditors and he'd still receive the traffic from the site, yeah that'll show RL not to be a fucking ass.

[–]bearofmoka 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

"This is a stupid time for the mods to post this"

 

I'm so fucking bored of this mentality that if it isn't good for the USA, it's automatically stupid. The hate that Riot got for their timings of the Worlds 2014 events was ridiculous as is your criticism of the mods making this post.

 

Edit: /u/LeagueofDestiny edited and changed his entire post, where he criticised the mods for the time they posted this thread.

[–]Rathix 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (52子コメント)

I am by no means defending either side of this because honestly I don't give a fuck about this entire situation and don't care enough about this game to look into his content, but

Do you think it's okay for RL to gain money off this subreddit after he slanders and degrades it and the people who manage it? To be honest I'd of done the same thing as the mods. Why would I let someone who constantly shit talks me, make money off me?

Your thoughts?

[–]TheRazorX 1058 ポイント1059 ポイント x3 (190子コメント)

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

He's a major fucking asshole, but how are you any better?

You only started this censorship crap BECAUSE of his interview with a former moderator (which you censored), not because of the bullshit reasons you're claiming. You should NOT be censoring ANYONE's content on this subreddit that isn't against the rules. You find someone manipulating votes, you ban THEM, you don't ban the content.

Yes, Richard Lewis is a horrible person, and yes he's pulled drama, but you also forget that he DID shine some light on important issues, like when Riot contracts stated that pro players couldn't stream other games.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with linking Reddit comments from other mediums, you let it happen all the freaking time when someone like Lyte or Voyboy or Tryndamere posts links to reddit on their twitter, as a matter of fact, you allowed it when Tryndamere's comments and links on twitter led to direct harassment of StarLordLucian.

None of the tweets you linked in the post contained ANY call for action, if his fanbase wants to do something, it's not his responsibility, or is the problem that he has people who agree with him and you don't like that?

Why aren't you "banning content" from anyone that posts "Discuss this on reddit" or "Reddit discussion" below their content on youtube or elsewhere?

I've actually looked at the "other examples" you stated on his twitter feed, and found NOTHING calling for any action.

FUCK you for censorship. I don't care what anyone did or does, if it isn't illegal, it shouldn't be censored. It is not your right to decide what can and can't be said. You're despicable people and I've lost any last shred of respect i had for you.

Downvote me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you've turned into authoritarian tyrants. If leaders of a country did exactly what you're doing, they'd be called Authoritarian tyrants, and that is EXACTLY what you are now, by exact definition of the word. You've literally banned content from someone on what is probably the biggest independent platform online right now.

Imagine if Obama declared tomorrow that no content from a particular reporter was ever allowed on TV, and that any channels attempting to provide the content would be shut down. Yeah, that's what you did.

Fuck you. I despise Richard Lewis as a person, But now i despise you more.

Downvote away.

edit: Oh and btw, if he was so successful sending "brigades" to upvote his content, why was some of his content buried, hmmmm?

edit 2: Oh and good job posting this at around midnight PST on a weekday. Wouldn't want too much of a reaction now would we?

edit 3: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/33g6xs/subreddit_ruling_richard_lewis/cqkncf4 (or is this considered brigading as well?)

edit 4: (sorry for the number of edits guys) you not only just took the decision on your own, you literally censored any threads discussing the issue until you made this POS topic. As a community we weren't even allowed to discuss it. You're MODERATORS not OVERLORDS.

edit 5 : like /u/Cptjev says , youtubers that actually DID brigade haven't had their content banned.

edit 6: Oh and btw, how is banning his content going to stop him from linking to reddit comments on his twitter, hmmm?

[–]NK___ 171 ポイント172 ポイント  (53子コメント)

While I do agree with most of what you said, there is a clear difference between linking to a reddit thread in the way Lyte did in your example (asking for opinions/join the discussion) or linking to a specific comment/user knowing your asshole fanboys will go brigade the post and harass/downvote the guy.

[–]WF187 162 ポイント163 ポイント  (30子コメント)

Imagine if Obama declared tomorrow that no content from a particular reporter was ever allowed on TV, and that any channels attempting to provide the content would be shut down. Yeah, that's what you did.

Quick reality check: Reddit has not gotten RL fired from DailyDot, prevented them from promoting his work, prevented DailyDot from using other outlets to promote his work.

The President controls the guys with guns, "the legal use of lethal force", imprisonment, the irs and influences the banking system and can completely remove you from life, society, and deprive you of your ability to function in society...

Bad metaphor is bad.

Personal Opinion: RL may write well, but his topics are most often drama-seeking, gossip-mongering tripe. He is not a "Woodward and Bernstein journalist", he is a tabloid-level paparazzi-pulp author. I can't believe he gets paid to write his well-written "blogs". While certainly not a professional diagnosis, my informed opinion is that his online-interactions display traits of Borderline-Personality-Disorder.

[–]Leadback 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Exactly. This is akin to a shop owner deciding not to carry a newspaper and people screaming about censorship. The sub is under no obligation to allow him.

[–]OmiC 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think people are under some kind of illusion that Reddit is a democracy. It is a dictatorship, anyone can make a subreddit and do literally anything they want with it. Comparing it to countries is absolutely ridiculous. You don't live here, you are free to leave any time you want, and there is no obligation to have anything to do with it. If you don't like the way it's run, make your own subreddit. There is plenty of precedent for new subreddits on Reddit, many of them work out great if they're actually moderated well. The problem is that most people have no idea what moderating is actually about, so they make their own subreddit and it fails miserably because they can't handle it.

[–]JonIV[Hersfeld] (EU-W) 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (15子コメント)

FUCK you for censorship. I don't care what anyone did or does, if it isn't illegal, it shouldn't be censored. It is not your right to decide what can and can't be said.

It is 100%. Someone else has said this in thread already, but reddit is not a democracy. The mods make the rules for any sub and apply them as they see fit, and that is the way Reddit works, everywhere, on every sub. Askreddit mods decided to have multiple 'no sex' weeks because those questions dominate the front page, so they saw fit to disallow them and remove any of them. If the Mods decide that RL's content has no place on this sub, be it for lack of content, vote bregading or warmongering, they have every right to ban it. If anyone dislikes that they are free to leave and start their own LoL-sub, with their own rules, which they can then enforce as they see fit.

Although their ways may not be right, they have every and the only right to do this. Is it a bad decision? Maybe. Is RL so important content wise that this will brake the sub? Perhaps. But calling the mods out for running it in the way they see fit because you don't agree with that is bad as you are making them out to be.

[–]LordOfTheScrubs 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Betting the mods gilded themselves

[–]Sorenthaz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love how this was downvoted off of the front page.

Yet at the same time people need to see this bullshit (the content ban, not the subreddit ban) and stand against it.

[–]Reunn 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As people are likely to want to see some evidence for what led to this escalation, here is some:

Proceed to post cobbled together 'evidence' that doesn't actually show anything that you are accusing him of. Linking to a reddit thread is in no way vote brigading.

Might as well ban every single content creator if you're gonna use this as substantial evidence, 99% of them would probably fit within this as well, but hey, everyone here knows the real reason behind this ban.

Shills gonna shill.

[–]timofox 179 ポイント180 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Lmao, first tweet quoted by you guys: "It just never ends with these mods. If you won't enter into a "relationship" with them kiss your content goodbye"

Point proven I'd say.

[–]iamPause 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Look at this guy claiming that we remove his content. Let's ban his content. If it's banned, then we're not removing it. That'll show him!"

[–]AvderoOoS 193 ポイント194 ポイント  (11子コメント)

this evidence isn't evidence at all, it seems like scrambled last minute half-ass excuses that coul apply to 80% of the posts on this site, seriously

[–]UnfeignedReality 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mods are just trying to flex their muscles but manage to look more and more stupid each time they try. Irrelevant twitter posts and personal grudges against RL aren't grounds for banning this man's work. His work and the work of various other esports journalists are what help this subreddit stay relevant. I'm off to /r/riotfreelol.

[–]popozion 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So funny that mods treat this shit like it's their job. Prolly still butthurt for not being popular in high school.

[–]Opux 1158 ポイント1159 ポイント  (428子コメント)

Ban him? Fine, he acts like a child anyways.

Ban his content? You're way out of line. That isn't the job of the moderation team. If his LoL-related content is shit, it gets downvoted. If it's good, it gets upvoted. Simple. (EDIT: For those who need clarification, it's the job of the moderation team to ensure the content is LoL-related in the first place.)

This whole situation smacks of a power trip.

ADDENDUM: Some people appear to be under the impression that he is/should be banned for vote brigading. I haven't personally seen, nor am I aware of, any vote brigading. While I have seen linking to Reddit, these aren't the same thing as the former requires a call to action. Reddit isn't fight club; we can talk about Reddit outside of Reddit.

A website banning linking to itself - that's quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard. That isn't how the internet works.

[–]TNine227 577 ポイント578 ポイント  (124子コメント)

I wouldn't call it a power trip as much as fear and retribution--the mods have a very good reason to want nothing to do with him.

I don't necessarily agree with getting on his level but if he wanted this to stay business he shouldn't have threatened to doxx the fucking mods because they were angry at him for effectively making stuff up.

[–]dresdenologist 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't necessarily agree with getting on his level but if he wanted this to stay business he shouldn't have threatened to doxx the fucking mods because they were angry at him for effectively making stuff up.

Honestly it's a bit of a rock and a hard place as far as how to deal with a situation like this one. Because the upvote/downvote system is easily manipulated and flawed for more than just brigading, the tools and methods to deal with such manipulation are extremely limited for moderators. In some respects, a content ban appears to be the only meaningful way for the moderator team to create an actual punitive action that stings against someone who they see is a disruptive presence even "from the grave" so to speak.

I'm not really too sure if this was the best course of action, but people are mistaken that he's being censored primarily "for his opinion". The brigading is more of a debatable issue, but it's clear it's mostly because of this:

He has also specifically targeted several individual moderators and redditors in an attempt to harass them, leading at least one redditor to delete his account shortly after having his comment brigaded.

As an experienced large subreddit moderator myself, if the moderator team believed that this kind of targeted harassment was causing enough of a disruptive presence on the subreddit, and that it was affecting people that visit the subreddit to the extent that accounts were being deleted out of frustration, then that is within the purview of the team's oversight of the subreddit. Affecting someone's user experience on a subreddit to the degree that they leave the service is honestly not cool.

I sort of see this as both entities utilizing tools within their control to exercise some level of validity in their arguments. Richard was banned from Reddit, so he uses his Twitter following and userbase to continue to try to establish presence and opinion. The moderator team's reach to stop harassment or enforce rules obviously ends at the borders of this subreddit, so they use the subreddit and the obvious clout and popularity it has to exercise some level of control over what they view as outside manipulation/disruption.

Whether or not both methods are correct is for people to decide for themselves, but honestly, this decision was likely not come to lightly. Calling it a "power trip", as the parent comment in this string says, is mistaken.

EDIT: Appreciate the gold, kind stranger, I shall add it to the 3 months worth I'd accrued already. I'm on a streak I guess. :)

[–]iTomes 193 ポイント194 ポイント  (32子コメント)

This. Ultimately, the mods are not obligated to deal with Lewis' shit and are not obligated to host his content. If all Lewis had done had been revealing what he perceived to be shady businesses then it would be a different story (because it would essentially become a topic ban, rather than a banning of a single person), but as it stands his conduct does entitle the mods to ban his content if they choose to do so.

[–]Suiiii 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I agree that on paper reddit mods should not ban content based on a person's behavior. But then again, we're a community, we have moderators, when we refuse to follow the rules even after punishment (e.g. his account being banned before but he keeps influencing threads via Twitter) then you're bound to get kicked out of the community by its moderators. Basically they said it in the post "we dont want anything to do with people like him" and after giving him so many chances and warnings to change his offensive attitude I personally don't blame them for finally taking an extreme measure.

People shouldnt think it's ok to be a dick without consequences, this isn't censorship, it's called action-reaction.

[–]SamWhite 429 ポイント430 ポイント  (219子コメント)

That isn't the job of the moderation team.

That is literally the job of the moderation team.

[–]esportsLawEU 476 ポイント477 ポイント  (289子コメント)

The mere existence of a "subreddit ruling" is very disconcerting to say the least.

I will tackle two issues: (1) user harassment as reason for a ban and (2) the ban of Richard Lewis.

(1) user harassment

The case where tweets linking to user comments causes harassment is quite unfortunate. However, I am not convinced that this is enough to base a ban on it. A lot of prominent eSports figures (including Krepo and other players) link directly to comments and cause intense discussion of certain statements. If you do not allow this behaviour at all, please make a rule and enforce it fair and even. In my opinion, this is not an issue at all. If I post in an open forum an opinion, I have to be prepared to discuss this. If I get harassed, it is the mods' job to protect me. Which does not mean to ban the source of tweets but rather keep an eye on posts that are made. I would like to see the mods to limit themselves to their core competence: Make sure that everything runs smoothly in this subreddit.

(2) Ban of Richard Lewis

I am completely shocked to see this ban. Richard brings great, well researched content. A ban does severely interfere with the much needed discussion of controversial topics in eSports. This subreddit has provided a forum to have such discussion. If this is not possible anymore, this damages the scene as a whole and makes the subreddit less valuable for people who would like to engage with other smart discussants. I have already given my reasoning, why I am not convinced by this "user harassment" line of argumentation. I would also like to add that I not always agree how Richard takes the fight to people and mods of this subreddit. It is, however, the job of the mods to endure this pain and make sure that we, the users, can still discuss valuable content.

At this point, I also need to add that I see the distinction between a personal ban and a content ban. Banning his content is absolutely inacceptable because at least the discussion about his content should be possible for other users.

In the end the ban of his content is not more than an arbitrary ban of an inconvenient voice. It is arbitrary censorship. If this ban is upheld, it is a huge loss for this subreddit and the whole community.

Edit: For all the people wondering about my connection to Richard, here you can read more. I do not claim to have it all right and it is also not my intention to repeat and judge the neverending story of the long lasting war between Richard and reddit. My main concern is that I want to link to his content in the future and be able to discuss it here with fellow redditors.

[–]DSA-Zocker 122 ポイント123 ポイント  (74子コメント)

There is a difference between only linking to a comment and insulting the writer of said comment in the same tweet.

[–]neenerpants 97 ポイント98 ポイント  (72子コメント)

Repeatedly, over an extended period of weeks.

If this guy doesn't deserve a ban then virtually nobody does.

[–]DrCytokinesis 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (67子コメント)

He's already banned. Nobody disputes banning him is probably a good a thing. Banning his content is egregious and insane

[–]Ranuu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm starting to wonder if this is all part of a conspiracy. So many of you are trying to spin the narrative of what we have a problem with. I think it's only an extremely small minority that has a problem with Richard Lewis actually being banned. But that's all you're focusing on.

The problem is with banning relevant content to a subreddit in dire need of discussion about things in the scene.

[–]OriginalBuzz 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Disagree. Users who may comment or post onto a website are usually not accorded an irrevocable right, but a revocable privilege at the pleasure of the site administrator, to post a submission to the site. If reddit would be a real life store, Richard would criticize all your product and would threaten and down talk your employees. He would bring people with him and together they would gank up on customers that find something interesting. They would tell them how wrong they are in a not so fine way. In no way a store owner would allow that shit and after some warnings kick such a person out. While the freedom of speech gives everyone the right to express their opinion, the householder's rights allows you to not listen to such opinion in your own place. Richard Lewis seems just not smart to be honest. I guess reddit has a good stream of people coming to his site and I would not continually bash on one of my major income streams. Reddit is not a holy forum where all is allowed. Reddit is a company and I see no reason why they should allow a person that is that disruptive, manipulating and aggressive on their site.

[–]jamescharlick 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Where do you stand on the topic of setting an example with your behavior as a prominent member of the scene?

The comments here seem to be consistently that he writes excellent articles but acts like an abusive child in reddit comments and on social media. While there is no such rule that I am aware of posted on subreddit, I don't think it's unreasonable to hold such an influential personality to standards similar to how professional players have to maintain a certain level of non-toxicity in order to be allowed to play in the LCS.

I will add that I fall on the side of censorship being bad, especially when the overriding reason seems to be personal grievance on behalf of the mod team, and I agree with what you have said above. However playing devils advocate and looking at both sides, this has been a while in coming. If I were his employer I would have encouraged him to stop using reddit to reply to comments on his own articles or links featuring him and his content as a blanket rule, since he is unable to reply with a level head in many instances. A little self control and diplomacy can go a long way.

Furthermore if he has been repeatedly warned for his behavior, such as (1) tweeting user comments leading to harassment, then I don't think it's unreasonable to ban eventually. If it's one of a list of things that the mods are using as ammunition but he never received explicit warnings for that's another thing entirely, but surely it's understandable that when he shares a comment on his twitter that he doesn't agree with it's likely his followers will attack that comment on his behalf without even being asked. Asking him to stop sharing those comments is not unreasonable as a result, because we're not really talking about starting a debate but more of an attack on that user.

The whole brigading issue goes back to the concept of a prominent personality with a lot of loyal followers. While he has never explicitly asked for upvotes or comments it is implied whenever you share your work. I have no issue with sharing your work, at all, and vote brigading in this instance is a ridiculous concept. However when you are sharing comments from users that you disagree with you are also implying that you want you followers to go ahead and defend your position which does lead to the unacceptable situation I outlined above of personal attacks on that user by your followers.

I would love your opinion on those matters as well esportsLawEU, because at the end of the day a sensible rule for the average user and a sensible rule for an established figure in the LoL or eSports scene may not be the same thing. Sometimes these things are simply not scale-able. If you are deemed to be acting unreasonably and are asked to stop that behavior isn't that enough?

Again I am largely playing devils advocate here but I am interested in the debate.

[–]grimri 207 ポイント208 ポイント  (43子コメント)

Banning Richard Lewis' content from this subreddit is simple removing great content from a sub that is already stagnant of quality material.

Not to mention that the 'evidence' linked by OP doesn't even demonstrate brigading -- if it did then subreddits such as /r/ShitRedditSays would have been shut-down ages ago.

[–]Reusablesacks 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Next they should ban Thooorin and we will all live in that magical Riot regulated rainbow land free from all negativity. Let's hold hand guys.

[–]Raz18 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I definitely do not agree with this

[–]MilkyIsHere 128 ポイント129 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm sorry but I have to speak up and say something and I don't even like the guy. Isn't this article alone inciting a which hunt, which according to the rules is a ban worthy offense. All I can see are tenuous claims backed by some pretty weird choices of tweets that in a factual sense show zero evidence of brigading. In no way is he trying to brigade votes here. This is simply an angry British dude giving his opinion on something.

Has Jinx hijacked the mods and posted this thread because this shit is crazy!. We have an insane amount of proof of popular youtube content creators bridgading and I don't see anything on the front page saying this is unacceptable and these people will be banned or lose privileges etc but you'll call out Richard Lewis because hes making the mods life a little bit more difficult?

Since when is this ok??? I'm so shocked at this post and even worse worried for the future of the sub if this is how its being ran.

I mean come-on man all i can see is fucking Warwick dressed as a poro waiting to slay a fucking innocent wild turtle.

Edit* i'd like to say this isn't about witch hunting. It's about censorship. We have a right to decide what content we see. It's the whole point of the upvote downvote system. Mods should not have a right to take this from us.

[–]DNamor 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Every now and then I wish people would actually bother to get an understandning of how witch hunting is defined. Rather than throw it in literally every fucking thread that ever mentions a single name.

Alas.

[–]Saftman 291 ポイント292 ポイント  (72子コメント)

This is ridiculous.

RL gets all of his content(!) banned for shittalking on twitter, meanwhile skypelogs of 60+ content creators vote brigading has been floating around for a couple of weeks with the only mod-action taken is to delete the links of said logs.

People knew of the skype group long before Gnarsies last video so I'm pretty sure the mods did to.

Edit: Because people have issues with reading comprehension: Pictures of logs from this skype room have been floating around for at least a month, not two fucking days.

Somehow it takes Gnarsies two videos, with aproximatly a month in between, where he calls shady shit out to get mods to aknowledge it.

But when it comes to RL shit gets done. I have no issue with his account getting permbanned, he acts like a five year old with a stick in his ass, but his content?

As long as it doesn't break any rules it shouldn't be banned. That's censoring.

[–]frizzykid 178 ポイント179 ポイント  (14子コメント)

if you look through the comments of gnarsies video one of the mods who removed the original link said that he/she reported the list of skype names and youtubes to the admins, I'll try to find the comment

edit: here it is

[–]Runemaker 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They deleted the links to logs that didn't have names edited out, as they would with anyone else. They don't handle reddit bans, the admins to, and the admins have jurisdiction over vote manipulation.

[–]fritzvonamerika 77 ポイント78 ポイント  (1子コメント)

my guess is that the mods have forwarded the skypegroup case to the admins and they are cooking something up as we speak. This whole deal with RL looks like it has taken place over a longer period of time and is just now being escalated.

[–]Baldoora 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Go check /u/theenigmablade

He said they are banned from this sub.

[–]Trozay[HeLiX Trozay] (EU-W) 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Couple of weeks? It has been 2 days lol

[–]Ceylan_CLC[BestLeeSinWorld] (CN) 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sure they are solving it,just give it time

[–]Baldoora 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Alredy did if you check /u/theEnigmablade comment history

[–]Ceegee93 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fairly sure the vote brigading stuff doesn't come under the subreddit mods' responsibilities, it's handled by the admins.

[–]gkardos 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Man, I find this whole Richard Lewis situation so disheartening. His content was always so good, and he was on point with information on roster changes. Its a real shame that he had to become so unprofessional to social media. I guess he really does not respond well to criticism.

[–]Tamerlin[Eithelduin] (EU-W) 124 ポイント125 ポイント  (34子コメント)

[–]DeShawnThordason[GITPAYYEDD] (NA) 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (19子コメント)

/r/Leagueoflegends Moderation Staff & Riot Staff are requested not to make appearances in the subreddit under their more commonly known monikers

We don't like your censorship over there so we're going to censor you over here? Is the problem with these people their power over the subreddit, or what that have to say or who they are?

[–]BusinessCashew 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not about censorship. They can still post, just not under commonly known monikers so they won't be upvoted like crazy for shitposting and so the entire subreddit won't become "riot pls" like this one has become.

[–]personn234 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm guessing they just don't want to become associated with official statements from riot like over here, or have a representatives be afraid of having things they say there held over their heads later. It says

We appreciate your opinions, comments, and insight on any discussion here. However, this can not be under associated names.

So these people can comment, just not on their accounts best associated with them.

[–]SubmittingFeedback[Ethereal DJ Sona] (EU-W) 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Half truth, "We appreciate your opinions, comments, and insight on any discussion here. However, this can not be under associated names.".

[–]picflutepicflute (NA) 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol a lot of us woke up to ban messages from them this morning.

[–]zzirDiz 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is fucking retarded...the mods need to pull the stick out of their ass and unban him

[–]frizzykid 144 ポイント145 ポイント  (52子コメント)

I enjoy lewis's content, but hes honestly just proven to the community how big of a child he actually can be over the time this conflict has gone on,

And, I'm not necessarily saying that the mods have acted in the most mature manner either, there are some posts that have gotten deleted from lewis that probably shouldn't have been,

But overall, I think Lewis threatening the mods and mocking them on twitter is sufficient enough for this type of punishment.

This may be the internet, but if you make problems with the wrong people they will punish you for it, and this is the subreddits way of punishing lewis, and Honestly I'm okay with it,

I had a discussion with lewis over twitter the other day and he claims that the Mods not allowing him to post his content has hurt his business, and maybe at some point the mods and Lewis may have been able to find some common ground, but I think if Lewis wants the privilege to advertise his content on the subreddit instead of every time his posts got deleted him going up in arms he could have talked to the moderators in a cool and calm manner

And I've seen some of the conversations between lewis and the moderators, I can't say any of them I've seen have been calm at all, lots of flaming and swearing

[–]Grenwall74 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I agree, in the end both parties have egg on their face here. I feel like Richard became desperate because being in a bad standing with such a big subreddit can have actual influence on his career (or maybe not I am no expert here). This is not a good thing but it is the way things are now.

Major publishers of LoL content seem to have become lazy because this subreddit has been such a good way to distribute content to a mass audience for no cost whatsoever and now there is NO alternative.

So when you get shut out like Richard did it sucks but the man lashed out at users in his threads over and over and over again...this is no secret. I also love that pointing out over and over again that the Moderators are janitors is hilarious, this subreddit is not a Government building, this is not an independent subreddit, someone owns this and influences the direction in which it heads.

Again, I do not think this is great but it is what it is. The silent masses who come here for funny videos and esports updates don't give a flying fuck about meta reddit content so outside of Richards' followers I expect no outrage whatsoever.

[–]frizzykid 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Lewis isn't just a league of legends reporter, he also makes posts about CSGO, Dota, and a few other games, hell he exposed a huge CSGO scandal a few months ago where a few teams were throwing matches and putting bets on them

There are other places to advertise your content, also, The dailydot isn't just some small little community, its pretty big, lots of people go there anyway,

he also has quite a lot of followers on twitter, he can just post it there too,

the guy has quite a following, its going to hurt him a bit not having the subreddit to post his work, but he still has plenty of other sources.

[–]Atroveon 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think a lot of the discussion is focused in the wrong areas of the mods' argument. I see a lot of references to other prominent community members who link to reddit threads. I don't think anyone is against bringing attention to a thread to open discussion, but the examples provided in this post are links directly to other users' comments and many of them provide a bias before the person has even clicked the link. Whether you agree that this is an issue or not, stop comparing it to Lyte putting a link to a thread he posted in or his own comment in a thread. There are many instances of RL doing the same thing that never would have been a problem.

Personally, I agree with the mods that you are basically sending almost 25k followers to a comment you already know they don't agree with. And they may not even understand the context of the user's post since they didn't discover it while reading through the OP. And you can't say this is an unbiased call for discussion as he calls the user an assclown in one tweet. This is a clear example of RL targeting a Reddit user and introducing a bias to his followers who click the link before ever reading the user's comment.

[–]HobbesClone 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Make room for the articles written at an 8th grade reading level, without a single cohesive thought to rise in his place.

[–]DomoArigatoMrRotato 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Commies jacking our shit

[–]Sorenthaz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So how does this not create a witch-hunting double-standard for banning his content?

[–]Treyantula 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And here we see the mod team removing a source of criticism.

Who didn't see this coming?

[–]Solatice 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I jump in to read this sub reddit from time to time, and normally I absolutely don't post. Having said that, I'm making an exception to tell you how fucking stupid it is to ban content related to a person. This is against your own rules, this is an obvious witch hunt. I've never been a fan of Richard, but this is ridiculous and you should be ashamed. Now I realize, whenever I jump into the sub reddit to catch up on what's happening I'll know that there are things are being withheld.

Just look at the top voted comments, pointing out your hypocrisy, as well as what other prominent LoL figures are saying.

[–]LidlHarris 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (35子コメント)

I get why they ban his account, even though i disagree with it, but why ban his content!? His articles are the best around for rumors and possible conflicts behind closed doors. I know Richard will not go away, but now alot of people wont know about his content which is just a shame.

[–]sleeplessone 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Because even with a banned account he continues to do the exact same thing as if he had an accout by tweeting "look at this fuckhead, he is completely wrong" and letting his followers handle the replies.

[–]WilliamCMinor 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't know if I agree with the decision to ban his content, but think of it like this:

Richard Lewis literally makes a living off of the clicks that this subreddit creates for his content, yet he undeniably behaves like an asshole towards its users and mods every chance he gets (also see: "Why was RL banned?"). He simply misjudged his position when he started to threaten the mods after he got banned.

Don't shit where you eat - that's a lesson this grown man has yet to learn.

[–]Cptjev 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (37子コメント)

Funny how the youtubers that actually brigaded their videos don't have to face content removal, but Richard Lewis angrily linking to comments on twitter is somehow what crosses the line.

it is also targeted harassment of redditors.

You have to be a very special kind of snowflake to take criticism over how you do your job as harassment.

[–]TheFullMontoya 88 ポイント89 ポイント  (22子コメント)

When the moderators are no longer acting in the interests of the community, but in the interest of themselves, it it time for a change

[–]Mishatola 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not a fan of Richard Lewis. Banning Richard Lewis seems fair. But banning CONTENT that is 100% okay with subreddit rules is NOT OKAY. You might as well add into the subreddit rules: x All Richard Lewis related content.

[–]gdkorps 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (15子コメント)

This feels like a random act of censorship to be honest. I don't think you will gain anything from it and will most likely lose a lot from this. I would've preferred if you guys made a post asking the users about this before banning him. I don't think censorship is ever the answer to something like this. Discussion and being open-minded would be a better alternative than censoring someone. Why must you ban his content? Is it disagreeable? Is it attacking other users? If anything, his content has brought forth a lot of discussion into the community.

[–]Erelah 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's not random. RL threatened the Mods, fought constantly with other users (despite constant warnings to stop. The moderators actually delayed banning Richard Lewis for WAY too long because they were scared of the backlash) and then tried for over a week to 'expose' the moderating team with a bunch of made-up controversies. Let's be blunt - the community is tired of Richard Lewis, the moderator team is disgusted with Richard Lewis, and the Administrators are done putting up with Richard Lewis' shenanignans. Richard Lewis needs to learn that perpetually acting like a five year old on a temper tantrum on the Internet has real (and eventually financial) consequences.