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Pec Fly vs. Dumbell Bench Press (self.Fitness)
ndubes が 8 ヶ月 前 投稿
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[–]Planned_Apathy -28 ポイント-27 ポイント-26 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前* (115子コメント)
My pecs are very well developed, which I attribute to my workout. I never do regular bench press. Ever. I only do dumbbell presses and dumbbell flies, and I do them both on incline, decline, and flat benches. I also do many other pec exercises (but, again, no bench pressing). If I had to only choose six things to do, though, I'd do the dumbbell presses and dumbbell flies on each of the three benches. I do very high reps (at least 15 reps per set) and I do five sets for each lift on each bench.
So, my opinion -- Stop the bench press, and do dumbbell presses and dumbbell flies both, and do them on the three different benches. Or, if you like the bench press and think it's helpful, then do both dumbbell presses and flies and hit them at the different angles.
Edit -- I wish I could challenge all of you down-voters to a strength contest, to a body-fat percentage contest, and to some kind of context that measured and compared muscle development and vascularity.
Edit -- OP, ignore the down-votes. If developed pecs are your highest priority, focus on the dumbbell presses and flies. Do the bench press too, if you like it and if you have time. But, even if you like it, it's the one of the three to drop if your focus is building an developing pecs. To me, bench pressing is totally useless. And, as I watch people bench pressing at the gym every single day, I can see that it's totally useless to them too. The vast majority of people have terrible bench-pressing form. And most of them have terribly undeveloped pecs. And most of them aren't strong. They think they can bench-press their way into big pecs. Maybe, but only a few of them and only after a very long time. If you want very high-quality pecs, you should focus on the dumbbell presses and flies.
[–][deleted] 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (41子コメント)
I never do regular bench press...strength contest
k, you're almost certainly going to lose.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (40子コメント)
Well, the vast majority of people who claim to bench X, can't bench anything close to X with proper form. And, strangely, they can't do anything close to what I'm doing on dumbbell presses.
[–][deleted] 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (39子コメント)
vast majority of people
Nope.
Also, how do you know so much about proper bench form without even benching?
I'm not saying dumbbell bench can't be effective, but you're speaking out of class on so much shit.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (38子コメント)
I didn't say that I've NEVER benched, did I? I think you need some reading comprehension and logical reasoning lessons.
[–][deleted] 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (4子コメント)
I based my assumption that your bench is garbage on the fact that you're advising OP to stop benching. Anyone who knows how to bench would know how effective it is at building the chest, if done properly. The fact that dropped rather than utilizing bench plus dumbbell press speaks to an inability.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
Poor logical reasoning skills. Very poor.
[–]JustARogueMATH 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
You keep using that phrase "logical reasoning." I do not think that phrase means what you think it means.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
OK.
[–]ShrimShrimStrongwoman 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
logical reasoning lessons.
You mention logic a lot. Let me guess, you took a philosophy course in college and debated a few of the guys. Maybe you won a few debates and you got a little excited. Now you look at yourself as a rational man, a logical man. So whenever you encounter a dissenter, instead of using logic, you simply point out that they can't be logical because, after all, you are the logical one.
[–]JustARogueMATH 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (32子コメント)
Um, you said that exact thing...
/u/Planned_Apathy:
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/2fpruw/pec_fly_vs_dumbell_bench_press/ckbjjhc
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (31子コメント)
Your reading comprehension skills positively suck. I never do them now and haven't done them anytime in the recent past. I quit benching a long time ago, but also did it for a long time. And I'll never do them again. So, that doesn't mean that I've never ever done them. Get it? You not very good at thinking, reading, comprehending, or logical reasoning.
[–]JustARogueMATH 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (30子コメント)
You've gotta be a troll because the idea that someone as idiotic as you can survive in this world makes me sad for humanity.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (29子コメント)
So hilarious. If you only knew. I feel sorry for you.
[–][deleted] 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (28子コメント)
and with that, OP tipped his fedora, cracked open a bottle of mountain dew, and logged back into world of warcraft. If only they knew...
[–][deleted] 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
to a body-fat percentage contest
How is this remotely relevant to benching with only dumbbells, and how it is better than regular barbell bench press?
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
You're really aggressive and obsessed. I think you can get therapy for that. Do some research on whether muscle size/volume helps generalized fat burning. And find a good therapist.
[–]moldeh 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (7子コメント)
Bench press is good for pecs and more importantly... benching helps you bench more. Most people here actually care about their lifts and not just how big their pecs are so I don't think 'stop benching' is a good idea.
That said, if you're not half repping and you're not getting the results you want from flat bench press and don't care at all about your lift numbers and are only into it for aesthetics, then in that case maybe.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (6子コメント)
I generally agree with this, although I'm not sure I think regular bench is as good for developing pecs as dumbbell presses and flies.
I do agree that benching helps you bench more, which probably matters to some or most people, but not at all to me. I just don't care how much I bench or for being ridiculously strong or whether I'm stronger than anyone. I only care about general health, very low body fat, very well-developed muscles, and substantial vascularity. And so I don't devote any time to anything that I think isn't a huge driver of muscle-growth, leanness, and vascularity. And I spend so much time in each muscle group each day, so I'm not looking to add lifts. But, obviously, even with my program, I'm constantly getting stronger, but probably not getting stronger at the same rate as I'd be getting with a different program.
I do see many extremely strong people the gym who are very overweight, have very high body fat, and sometimes could accurately be classified as obese. They have the opposite view compared to mine -- they want to be strong and don't care much about physical appearance.
Obviously, there are others who might care about both strength and appearance and try to achieve both. But not me. It all depends on personal preferences.
[–]A-RonPaddling 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
I wish I could challenge all of you down-voters to a strength contest
[–][deleted] 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (2子コメント)
This contest will involve no competition style lifts, and instead it shall measure the strength of our minds. Adieu!
[–]droppartiRunescape Champion 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
Calf raises, leg press, and curl competition!
[–][deleted] 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
STRICT CURL IS A LEGITIMATE LIFT!
Seriously tho, there's a few federations that have strict curl. Not many but some. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6Q0_BVn8z4
[–]moldeh 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
I wanna look good - tho I'd rather look like a powerlifter than a bodybuilder - and be relatively lean too but here's my point of view: If you want both strength and aethetics then it's honestly better to focus on the big lifts. If you get your big lifts you'll get bigger, but if you get bigger off isolations and stuff then you won't neccessarily get stronger.
Besides, training only to look good gets old eventually. I sure as hell wanna be big but I also enjoy training for a sport rather than just trying to get big without giving a fuck about how much I lift.
[–]Planned_Apathy -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
Sounds like you've thought it through and that it's working for you. I happen to have different objectives and a different focus. I simply don't care how strong I am and focus instead on muscle development, vascularity, and extremely lie body fat, but I obviously do get stronger over time.
If OP wants to be able to say he's really strong and benches some big number, then he should continue with bench-pressing, unless he's short on time and favors development-appearance. Even in that case, I'd suggest he make sure his form is correct, unlike 90% of the guys I see bench pressing every day.
[–][削除されました] 8 ヶ月 前 (34子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]Planned_Apathy -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (33子コメント)
Whatever. Nice grammar and spelling, by the way. I'm not one of the clowns who takes pictures of himself while lifting. Sorry. I'm busy lifting. You might be better served by spending more time with elementary books and in elementary classrooms than in a gym.
[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (32子コメント)
spoken like professional non-lifter
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (31子コメント)
Spoken like an uneducated child.
[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (30子コメント)
it's pretty amusing how far you would go to avoid backing up your claims that. i mean if you want to insult other people's intelligence rather than walking the walk, you might want to make sure you didn't misspell contest as context there champ ;)
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (29子コメント)
You are so bad at writing and thinking. I think the two are related. I'm typing on an iPad that auto-corrects, so any misspellings are just typos (from typing quickly) that are auto-corrected incorrectly. You, on the other hand, can't spell, can't use grammar properly, and don't have the slightest clue about punctuation. You also have essentially zero rational thinking skills. And you're an angry and envious tough-guy. That's a very bad combination.
[–][deleted] 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
Have you been tested/diagnosed with aspergers snydrome, or special snowflake syndrome, at any point in your life?
[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
please, he is taxes > 5x your salary and can beat you in a straight up strength/physique context. you ain't got shit on him
[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (26子コメント)
for someone who's "too busy lifting" to take a picture to prove that you don't look like a sack of potatoes, you sure spend a lot of time arguing on the internet
i'm curious how you got "zero rational thinking skills" from me asking you to verify the claims you made. if anything i'd say that's more telling of bad rational thinking than anything
but regardless of how hypocritical you are, i just want to see you take a picture with indisputable proof that it's you, if you say you're stronger and look better than all your downvoters. the fact that you haven't done so in the past 2 hours, and instead spent all that time resorting to ad hominem attacks on anyone who challenges your claims just shows how pathetic you are, not to mention how pathetic you probably look
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (25子コメント)
I was at the gym all night over night and now I'm home getting ready to sleep. But keep talking. You're wasting your time. Your life is still your life and my life is still my life. Nothing will change that.
[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (24子コメント)
and you spent 2 hrs having internet fights instead of taking 30 seconds to take a picture to prove the haters wrong? you're weak and sad and have to resort to insulting people who are better than you in every way. nothing will change that
[–]c00ner 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (6子コメント)
do you have any good videos for decline? I do dumbell incline and flat but I can never seem to figure out how to do decline.
[–][deleted] 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
All decline does is shorten your range of motion and is a tough position to get into. Drop it, add more flat and incline volume.
[–]DrTyeSwimming 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
What if he wants some of that silverback action?
[–]mroczPilates 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
My almost gorilla arms are forever grateful for decline bench.
Also there were some researches made that show the small decline gives more muscle activation than straight flat bench. No citation cause on phone.
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
Could you post that when you have a chance? Kinda curious.
So, I'm assuming that your gym doesn't have a regular decline bench. If it does, just remove the barbell and use the bench with the dumbbells.
My gym has several decline benches, but I prefer and use the sit-up bench. I'm assuming that you're gym has a sit-up bench. If so, just do presses and flies in that. If you have trouble lifting the dumbbells into place or dropping germ, then put those little,cushioned seats on each side of the bench and use them as tables for picking up and putting down the dumbbells they're the perfect height.
[–]Planned_Apathy -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
Sorry, I think I misunderstood your question. I don't have any videos and I'd just do a normal search if I were looking for one.
But I'd suggest that you try a variety of angles and hand positions and see what works best for you. Make sure you're concentrating on feeling your pec muscles while you're experimenting and you'll find the right position for you. Just go through some trial-and-error to get you there where you're really feeling it. But I always do that -- I'm constantly thinking about different ways and different angles to hit each muscle. I really concentrate on the relevant muscle while lifting, concentrate on feeling it expand and contract, and keep adjusting until something works for you and then repeat the process endlessly.
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (11子コメント)
Your absolutely right, don't now why we're being downvoted by the benchpress bros circlejerk but to each their own
[–]hammock22 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
Telling a novice on Stronglifts to completely change the program will get you downvoted.
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (2子コメント)
I wouldn't say changing bench press to dumbbell press is changing the program?
[–]hammock22 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
Really? I'd say that's a pretty significant change to the program.
[–]JustARogueMATH 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
Since the progression will be forced to change and the stepping between progressions will have to change, its a pretty big difference.
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (6子コメント)
Yeah, it's so weird how so many people have a mindless vehement affection for straight bench pressing. It's an absolutely terrible and inferior lift compared to dumbbell presses (and many other less directly comparable pec lifts).
Regular benching gives you so much less motion range because, even assuming perfect form, the barbell stops you exactly at chest level. And most people have terrible form anyway -- either not coming anywhere near their chest or bouncing the bar off their chest as if it were a trampoline. And, for guys with short arms and a very fat chest, their motion range is automatically limited to just a few inches anyway. So, in my opinion, it's a terrible and inferior life, even with great form. To makes matters worse, most guys have absolutely atrocious form.
And there are probably so many guys who can bench more than I can because I never bench, but it sure doesn't look like it in the vast majority of those cases.
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (5子コメント)
We should work out sometime, you'd love the people at my gym
[–]Planned_Apathy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (4子コメント)
That would be cool. I always like visiting other gyms. And I'm always looking for better gyms, even when I'm satisfied with mine.
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
NYC?
[–]Planned_Apathy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (2子コメント)
I'm about as far from New York City as possible in the continental US -- California. But I travel a lot, so maybe I can track you down the next time I'm there. I'll be on the East Coast for a week staring tomorrow, but not New York, unfortunately.
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
Well PM me if you need a guest pass in manhattan lol
[–]Planned_Apathy -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
I'll definitely do that -- thanks.
[–]MatrixOfLiberty -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (7子コメント)
Haters always hate bro. I do bench, (225x6x5) but I have to say for me other muscle groups over power my weak Pecs while benching. Any Pec gains from bench are basically bonus
[–][deleted] 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (6子コメント)
Widen your grip and don't flair your elbows. It's a problem with your technique, not with the movement.
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (0子コメント)
I'm not sure, I put middle finger on smooth in between the grips so pretty wide. i do close grip for triceps and it seems I can make the mind muscle connection better- seems like I just can't keep my Pecs tight while standard benching. I'll try tomorrow a couple inches wider and test to see where I feel it or can make the connection better.
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (4子コメント)
Now that I'm describing it it's probably elbow flair since it works when I'm close gripping for triceps I pay special attention to keep elbows in.. I'll double check elbows first thanks dude
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (3子コメント)
Np, I actually switched to a wider grip and bench off the top of my abs with a pretty severe arc and really feel my pecs every time I bench. You don't necessarily need to adapt a crazy arch or anything, but keeping your elbows tight along with wider grip should work nicely. It might take a week or two until it feels normal tho.
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (2子コメント)
How much wider than the middle finger on smooth do you go?
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 ヶ月 前 (1子コメント)
I actually keep my pointer finger on the marks, so that's 32" on a standard powerlifting bar. I'm also 5'6", so that might not be as wide for you as it is for me.
Roger that I'm just under 6ft
π Rendered by PID 7797 on app-46 at 2015-05-18 20:22:43.304752+00:00 running 44699fb country code: JP.
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[–]koolaidman123Roller Derby 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント (24子コメント)
[–]c00ner 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (6子コメント)
[–][deleted] 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]DrTyeSwimming 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]mroczPilates 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Planned_Apathy -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Planned_Apathy -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント (11子コメント)
[–]hammock22 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]hammock22 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]JustARogueMATH 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント (0子コメント)
[+]Planned_Apathy スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (5子コメント)
[–]Planned_Apathy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Planned_Apathy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]AMbuckWeightlifting -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Planned_Apathy -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]MatrixOfLiberty -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント (7子コメント)
[–][deleted] 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント (6子コメント)
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (2子コメント)
[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]MatrixOfLiberty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (0子コメント)