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EngineeringStudents

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This a place for engineering students of any discipline to discuss study methods, get homework help, get job search advice, and find a compassionate ear when you get a 40% on your midterm after studying all night.

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[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE 2 points3 points4 points  (33 children)
I am not for cheating BUT the more you get some real, work experience, the more you will realize that most of the stuff you learn in school, you will never use.
Whether you got an A or a D in Differential Equations, it will have about 0 relevance when you start working.
Once again, I am not trying to justify cheating BUT the idea that an Engineer who cheated in school may build a defective bridge because he cheated is absolute BULLSHIT.
I don't know, maybe I am jaded but I truly believe that the only value of an Engineering degree is to show to an employer that you are not the type of person who will just walk out the door when you are faced with a problem.
Honestly, I feel like everything I learned so far about Manufacturing Engineering, I could have learned by reading books and research papers.
[–]Capaenni 16 points17 points18 points  (3 children)
I'm sorry, but this is absolutely wrong.
What you learn will have great relevance to your work - at least if you intend to be a decent engineer.
Some topics will be more immediately relevant, some topics will be less. However, there are two things you are not taking into account:
  1. Students almost never actually know where they're going to end up. Some may think they do, but the reality is very different. Working engineers often move from project to project, and the skills required for each one often differs from the rest. Part of what engineers do is address problems that have not come up before, and having a good and varied mental toolbox is essential to being a good engineer. You never know what subset of knowledge you may need to draw upon tomorrow, and the day will come when you'll be using some of the information you think right now is irrelevant. Or you'll be stumped by a problem and watch someone else solve it with that same knowledge you're currently disparaging.
  2. Even under the hypothetical circumstance that a particular piece of knowledge will never be directly used by a particular engineer, the act of learning it teaches you different aspects of problem solving, and gives you a core understanding that can indirectly be helpful in many scenarios. You may not need to directly write a particular set of equations, but that doesn't mean that understanding the math behind how they operate won't be useful and relevant. Engineers are not about rote facts - we do what we do by having a deep and advanced understanding of science and mathematics.
You're making judgements based on several incorrect assumptions. I can tell you that there are absolutely engineers out there who work with differential equations, just as there are engineers who routinely work with pretty much any subject matter you have taken or will take.
And having worked with engineers who clearly do not have the understanding they're supposed to, I can tell you that it is absolutely NOT bullshit that someone who earned an engineering degree dishonestly could end up designing something defective. It absolutely happens.
One reason you don't see the effects of this too often is that most companies acknowledge the possibility of error and have multiple engineers check anything critical, so mistakes made by the incompetant engineer are usually caught. Another reason is that incompetance usually shows itself early and many of those people end up fired and having difficultly getting new jobs. Eventually, many of them give up and change fields.
You have a lot of responsibility in your hands. A doctor who makes a mistake can kill a man. An engineer who makes a mistake can kill thousands. If you can't respect that responsibility, find another field.
[–]LeatherJacketQGaTech - ChBE 2017 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
idk man being a doctor is a little trickier, there are no hoard of people triple checking your shit and stuff often comes down to judgement calls.
[–]Capaenni 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Some problems still slip through, even with multiple checks. And not every company has policies for this. In addition, some systems are considered non-critical, but the wrong mistake can cause tragic consequences.
That's one of the problems that engineers have to deal with - the modes of failure are often not obvious and can be very difficult to predict.
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE -3 points-2 points-1 points  (0 children)
Yes, like they are gonna put a 21 year old kid fresh out of college in charge of a major project and hope he gets it right. Can't you see how fucking absurd this is? "Hey man, I hope you did not cheat on your Statics exam", otherwise, we are fucked.
[–]OverunderratedPrinceton - PhD 14 points15 points16 points  (7 children)
I don't know, maybe I am jaded but I truly believe that the only value of an Engineering degree is to show to an employer that you are not the type of person who will just walk out the door when you are faced with a problem.
Apparently for you it shows an employer you're the type of person that will lie, cheat, and steal work from others when faced with a problem.
[–]michaelc4 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
i.e. make the company money
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points  (5 children)
Shut up, bitch. You don't know anything about me or my life.
[–]etsuro 7 points8 points9 points  (4 children)
You have revealed a great deal about your character
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points  (3 children)
Shut up, little boy. Most people that have replied to this thread have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. Gotta love these know it alls who probably never had a job, internship or a co-op in their lives.
Like I said, I am not trying to justify cheating but if any of you could fucking tell me how cheating on a Statics exam can lead to a mistake that will kill hundreds of people.
[–]OverunderratedPrinceton - PhD 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
If you have to cheat at a statics exam, that's pretty damn sad, and you shouldn't be building bridges. Ask Sturges how he feels.
[–]etsuro [score hidden]  (0 children)
Well this topic obviously struck a nerve.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, man.
[–]LoocyloooNMSU - Environmental [score hidden]  (0 children)
Because cheating at statics shows a lot about your character. You're already willing to cut corners to do what it takes. And yeah, right now in class it doesn't fucking matter because it's your grade and it doesn't have anything to do with the dude next to you, right?
But being morally bankrupt before you even sit down to take upper level engineering courses means you'll cut corners later when it comes to your work. You SAY you won't, but I see it all the time at my internship.
Not willing to take the extra hours to study can one day lead to willingly use subpar material just to get the job done. And that can lead to someone dying because of your lack of morals.
[–]bukojuice 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
I truly believe that the only value of an Engineering degree is to show to an employer that you are not the type of person who will just walk out the door when you are faced with a problem.
How is cheating better than walking out? For a manufacturing engineering position I would question your ethics and reckon you're more likely to continue to take shortcuts.
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE -4 points-3 points-2 points  (2 children)
Dude, why don't you just shut up? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
In Manufacturing Engineering, pretty much all the parts that are being produced are based on old designs, if anything, all Manufacturing Engineers do are slight modifications to a design that has been proven to work time after time.
If you are producing parts for Government, they give you all the specifications, so I don't see how an Engineer could take a "shortcut"
Do you really think Manufacturing/Mechanical Engineers design parts from scratch and get to choose the materials?
The scenario you are describing is absolutely absurd.
[–]bukojuice [score hidden]  (1 child)
The shortcuts you could take as a manufacturing engineer would be accepting bad parts, reworking non-conforming parts without informing the customer, not performing heat treatments or platings to spec, fudging paperwork to say you completed steps even though you're not entirely sure..really just basically anything to get parts out the door that the customer is unaware of and has to take your word on it. Things can go shady with any position, manufacturing engineers included.
edited: for language
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE [score hidden]  (0 children)
Do you mothafuckas even understand what quality control is? When you make dispositions to determine if a part is scrap or can be reworked, you have at least three people signing off on it and they all have to agree on it.
Come on guys, use your fucking brain, do you think companies would be taking risks that can cost them millions of dollars?
[–]BallsDeepinLogicSt. Cloud State - Electrical comment score below threshold-13 points-12 points-11 points  (16 children)
So much this. I feel like a huge part of school isn't just who is the best at studying but who is also the best at cheating. There are a lot of reasons that students cheat, sometimes it's because they have a poor professor, or they have to work and can't study as much as they'd like. It's not always out of laziness, sometimes it's just necessity.
[–]2four 14 points15 points16 points  (15 children)
Okay no. This is the kind of attitude that makes no sense. Your cheating skill won't help you in engineering. Maybe in business, but not engineering.
You're cheating to get a better grade. An employer looks at your grade and determines that you have learned enough skill for the task. The problem is that you're lying. Your A no longer means you have mastered a subject more than someone who got a B. Now you're shortchanging not only your employer, but your honest classmates.
Grading exists for a reason. It's to measure proficiency in a subject, no matter how much you think it doesn't. Your immature excuses of "Oh it's just a bad professor" or "I won't even use these skills in the workforce anyway" are selfish, lazy, and frankly rude. Just learn the material, because no one thinks you're a good engineer for putting answers in your calculator.
[–]BallsDeepinLogicSt. Cloud State - Electrical comment score below threshold-7 points-6 points-5 points  (11 children)
All I'm trying to say is that cheating isn't always black and white wrong, nor is it always "putting answers in your calculator". Cheating can be something as benign as saving equations or notes on your calculator all the way up to stealing the exam beforehand from your professors office. I wouldn't treat someone the same who saved a bunch of equations on their calc when they were only supposed to use the equation sheet provided versus say a person who got a copy of the exam from their buddy who takes the same class but their exam was a couple days before mine. Outside of passing or not, I don't think the grade really reflects the understanding a student has of a subject and if you ask most engineers, grades were not much of an issue when looking for a job.
[–]OverunderratedPrinceton - PhD 14 points15 points16 points  (10 children)
Outside of passing or not, I don't think the grade really reflects the understanding a student has of a subject
Well no shit, if you're perfectly fine with cheating.
[–]BallsDeepinLogicSt. Cloud State - Electrical -5 points-4 points-3 points  (8 children)
No, I'm not fine with cheating and I choose not to do it myself, I just accept that there are two sides to every story and not everything is black and white.
[–]aPurpleLiger 2 points3 points4 points  (7 children)
So if you and someone else are interviewing for a job, and you know the only reason the other person has a higher GPA is because they cheated their way through college, you're fine with that? You're okay with someone who is less prepared getting a job over you?
[–]BallsDeepinLogicSt. Cloud State - Electrical 0 points1 point2 points  (6 children)
Of course I don't care for that but there is never a level playing field, I'd feel the same if the bosses' incompetent son got promoted over me. But in the end I don't want to work for a company that does encourages that kind of behavior, and if it just so happen to be a company I did want to work for then the failure was my own to set myself apart. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit because I can't deal with the unfairness of the world, I can't control if someone cheats or not. I cannot control who hires me or not. I can only do my best to set myself apart from other candidates which I want to do anyway. The cheaters will be exposed in the long run because they will be incompetent, so why worry?
[–]aPurpleLiger 0 points1 point2 points  (3 children)
They're not necessarily encouraging that kind of behavior. They just see the GPA, not how they got that GPA. And the higher GPA convinces them that the other person is more qualified. They might find out later that the person isn't, but you're out of the job either way.
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE -3 points-2 points-1 points  (2 children)
GPA has absolutely nothing to do with how well someone can do an Engineering job. Engineers are for the most part, desk/administrative workers, the work itself for the most part, has nothing to do with what you learn school.
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE -3 points-2 points-1 points  (1 child)
These kids know fucking nothing about the real world/corporate America. They probably think an Engineering job will be like their Statics course.
[–]BallsDeepinLogicSt. Cloud State - Electrical 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
I just wish they'd get off their damn high horses for the most part.
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE -5 points-4 points-3 points  (0 children)
Shut up, bitch. You don't know him
[–]cycloneboyIowa State University- IE comment score below threshold-9 points-8 points-7 points  (2 children)
Do you honestly think employers give a fuck about you? I would never lie to an employer because I am honest person but most companies see engineers as replaceable resources not as professionals or human beings.
You should read about layoffs that affect mostly EE's, AE's and PE's. Some of these engineers have never been able to find jobs after they were laid-off.
Being loyal to a company is stupid, always look for what is best for you, FIRST!
[–]2four 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
Some employers are shady, therefore it's okay for you to cheat in school?
[–]aPurpleLiger 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
You'd never lie to an employer, but you'll sit there and say that you earned your diploma legitimately?
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