Promote ideas, protect people

overallprettyaverage · 7 時間前

Still waiting on some word on the state of shadow banning

got_milk4 · 7 時間前

This is a very abstract blog post - what, exactly, do the admins plan to do when complains of harassment are submitted?

70616c616b6b6164616e · 7 時間前

What if it's the mods of a subreddit (like /r/india) doing the harassment?

Kalium · 5 時間前

Looking at the comments, and what's been upvoted, it becomes clear to me that there is a problem. Reflexive cynicism and distrust rule the day.

/u/kn0thing and /u/5days it seems that Reddit has lost the enthusiastic trust and support of its community. How do you plan to address this?

intellos · 4 時間前

I'm a bit confused. What actually changed here? Was Harassment not already against the rules?

vehementsquirrel · 7 時間前

When will you clarify what constitutes brigading? Will you continue to ban people in secret for rules that are kept hidden from the users?

With regard to the new harassment rule, what remedy will Reddit admins employ against users accused of harassment? Will they also be shadowbanned, or will they be told they were banned and given an opportunity to respond to the accusation?

cj_would_lovethis · 7 時間前

Based on your own data, 35% of the complaints from extremely dissatisfied users were about heavy handed moderation and censorship

What is being done about that?

cjcrashoveride · 6 時間前

Wouldn't the easier solution have just been to make the report button actually, ya know, do something?

K_Lobstah · 7 時間前

So this will be enforced by admin, but how is reporting of it handled? Just modmail to /r/reddit.com? Are there plans to increase the efficiency or response rate for messages sent there? Will moderator reports of other users being harassed be given the same level of attention?

The vast majority of subscribers aren't even aware they can contact admin. We receive reports of harassment in modmail quite frequently.

kvachon · 6 時間前

So is stuff like /r/justneckbeardthings and /r/fatpeoplehate against the rules now? Systematic and continued actions to demean people which would make any reasonable person feel unable to discuss any ideas that might go against the majority opinion? Or is it more for stuff like http://redd.it/35vv1v or http://redd.it/35xc8d which involves stalking a person to see what they post about where and for what purpose, solely to bring it forward to a group of people to judge and demean said person.

Which of those is now harrasement. If none are, then what is a concrete example of it. Does it need to be reported to you by the person being harrased? Does the admin team have to decide that they consider the treatment harassment? What constitutes feeling "like reddit isnt a safe place" seeing as its website with text comments.

To be honest, it seems like this rule is going to open a new can of worms, not solve any issues. You should either not allow mean comments, or not moderate legal comments. Trying to find that grey area is going to require you to choose sides on infinite endless battles between groups of people that honestly hate eachother. I know reddit tries its hardest to be a safe and friendly place, but there's a sub-section of this site that wants nothing more than to hate on things. Culture, people, trends, politics, reddit itself. ITs a pretty hate filled site outside of saner places like /r/aww or /r/askscience. ITs one of the prices you need to pay when you dont require anyone to reveal who they are. You cant expect anonymous people to retain their inhibitions and manners.

wantingsilence · 7 時間前

The harassed can report their so called harassers, correct? Will the harassers get any notification or chance to defend themselves, or will they just be shadowbanned?

danheskett · 7 時間前

It's odd to have a post one day from admin's about transparency, and then the next day, have an entire new post which involves new rules that are nearly 100% opaque.

The definition of harassment is so vague as to be useless, as are the penalties.

itty53 · 7 時間前

Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them.

What cracks me up is that this will apply to both sides of many arguments, but only one side is bound to get punished for it.

For instance: Is it safe for a conspiracy theorist to express their ideas and participate in conversation without being ridiculed? What about someone who thinks vaccines are dangerous? Or are those the dangerous ideas that need to be censored?

What does 'harassment' mean too? If someone calls me a name in a response, once (not-repeated), is that harassment? I've been insulted. I've been put 'in danger' of feeling insulted or harassed. Is this just a big 'be polite' rule? Because I've known plenty of polite trolls.

I'm not trying to defend harassers or anything - I've been the target of one individual in particular who followed and replied to comments as old as 6 months (and the admins banned him as soon as I reported him) - but the 'rules' that are being written here are vague and thus, flexible: They can apply when the admins choose and not apply when the admins don't. Which is exactly what's been happening, albeit unofficially. Now it seems it's official: Reddit admins will censor you and your ideas if they perceive them as 'scary'.

By this rule, it sounds to me that all the GamerGate/GamerGhazi infighting is banned: Those groups are both systematically harassing and demeaning each other. /r/fatpeoplehate seems a systematic harassment subreddit towards fat people (most of which are non-redditors).

And finally, I note that 'reasonable' is left out: All you have to be is afraid in order to claim you're being harassed. You don't have to be reasonably afraid, just afraid. I should note that most fears aren't reasonable at all. Nope, it says reasonable people. I wonder how they'll define 'reasonable'.

chugz · 5 時間前

Buddy Fletcher, husband of Reddit CEO Ellen Pao, is being described as being the operator of Ponzi scheme after his now bankrupt firm diverted money for their own use and, according to the Chapter 11 trustee, committed fraud against investors. Three Louisiana pension funds lost $144 million.

shadow bans for everyone.

2015goodyear · 7 時間前

So no new features or anything, just a new policy? That could be good. Can you elaborate on the policy though?

What happens if someone is reported for harassment? Reddit staff decides whether or not its harassment and then..... removes the content? Bans the harasser? Shadowbans the harasser? What's the plan?

RaiderInRed505 · 4 時間前

Buzzwords. Corporate buzzwords everywhere.

tacticalbaconX · 4 時間前

So vague, politically correct "safe zones" and corrupt cronyism for topics that make the Reddit owners look bad.

Got it.

risingstars · 5 時間前

Have affairs, be a bigot, sue your employers over bullshiy, cover it up from reddit. :)

ecafyelims · 6 時間前

Reading over the survey results. I can't see where people were complaining about being harassed. I even went to the survey CSV and did a CTRL-F for "harass" and came up with 0 results.

I'm not convinced harassment is as big of an issue as you think.

Instead, like you say, the reason they don't recommend to friends is "they want to avoid exposing friends to hate and offensive content"

Well, offensive content can mean any range of things. I know a lot of people who are offended by the science behind climate change. I know others who are offended by LGBT in the public. I know a lot of people who are offended by nudity, in general.

I hope you're not going to start removing content based on reports of it being "offensive," and I'm scared you'll start shadowbanning users under general guideline of "harassment" such as calling out CEO's for misconduct.

Please tell me this isn't the plan.

backtowriting · 6 時間前

So, how do you distinguish harassment from legitimate criticism? And how can that be done in a transparent way?

Personally, I'm not sure it's possible to always make the distinction. What may look like legitimate criticism to X may seem like harassment to Y.

Was e.g. criticism of Adria Richards after the dongle-gate incident harassment? All of it? At what point is the line crossed?

DamnTheseLurkers · 3 時間前

I wonder if I'm witnessing the beginning of the downfall for reddit. Safe place? This place got where it is now because it was NOT a "safe place".

All I see behind this bullshit is that a lot more censorship will come, anyone with dissenting comments will be labeled harassers and removed.

AustNerevar · 5 時間前

Protection from harassment...

Safe space...

Shadowbans...

You guys are just trying to run off most of the userbase, aren't you.

Don't turn Reddit into Tumblr. It isn't want the majority of users want.

Mcsquizzy · 6 時間前

What is with all of the reddit propaganda lately? Seems very unusual and out-of-the-blue for the random face-saving posts about how great Reddit is

Okichah · 6 時間前

https://voat.co/

TotesMessenger · 7 時間前

This thread has been linked to from another place on reddit.

[/r/circlebroke2] REJOICE BRETHREN! TODAY SHALL BE A HOLY DAY!
[/r/conspiracy] The beginning of the end; reddit admins will now censor any subreddit, submission, or comment which is found to contain "harassment".
[/r/metacancersubdrama] The cancer has spread: Admins hate free speech and want to destroy it
[/r/subredditcancer] "Promote ideas, protect people" - All for the common good
[/r/thepopcornstand] Reddit makes a blog post announcing that they're banning harassment. The whole thread is full of butter.

^{If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote.} ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)

dummystupid · 6 時間前

There's a lot of admin blog posts lately.

Not sure how to feel about all the "announcements".

CttCJim · 6 時間前

is it harassment if someone bans you from a sub you've never posted in? it feels like it is.

jexton80 · 5 時間前

Well we to can help protect freedom of speech, we can vote with our feet and let this become the safe space in the same way that digg is a safespace.

DeadGamerWalking · 6 時間前

/r/ShitRedditSays makes it unsafe for me to express my ideas. Will you ban that subreddit?

I_smell_awesome · 7 時間前

Why do I get the feeling that this is just a first step into removing downvotes?

madmaxsin · 3 時間前

"Don't you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thought crime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it."

1984

neohephaestus · 6 時間前

So you're finally getting rid of ShitRedditSays?

alwaysthepessimist · 5 時間前

The death of Reddit begins here.

1wf · 7 時間前

I hope we aren't trying to become Tumblr. The internet isn't a safe space. It never has been and hopefully never will be - safe is boring, heavily regulated and Brave New Worldish.

I don't like personal attacks either - but this appears to be your grounds to ban subs like /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/fatlogic or /r/CandidFashionPolice .

You truly didn't clarify what actions you plan to take to stop harassment. Its either a toothless policy OR a policy absent clear standards/transparency. . .

Taedirk · 6 時間前

Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation

Having my account flagged to hide my posts from appearing to others with no warning, no confirmation outside third party checks, and little-to-no remedy makes me conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express ideas. Disagree with the wrong person and my voice is silenced for all.

ttifiblog · 4 時間前

So are you finally going to stop SRS from brigading and harassing?

graffiti81 · 6 時間前

So basically you interviewed SRS.

elavers · 5 時間前

This blog post has made me fear for my safety on Reddit. I no longer feel that Reddit is a safe platform to express my ideas because of it.

NeonMan · 5 時間前

So /r/shitredditsays usets will be banned pretty fast I guess.

Right?

velvetbunnyrabbit · 4 時間前

You might as well include the key catchphrase "for the children" in there while you're at it, jerks.

MattyB4x4 · 5 時間前

TL;DR: Reddit will start censoring users comments if they are found offensive.

Hypocritical clowns.

Darr_Syn · 5 時間前

The continued use of the word "safe" in this blogpost seems. . . ominous.

See, I'm a mod of a number of BDSM subreddits and the term "safe" is one that's used quite a bit and is talked about all the time. But it's also argued about.

Let me put it this way.

What about my subreddits? Is discussing my kinks, hobbies, and passions going to be seen as "threatening" or " fear for their safety or the safety of those around them" by the very action of existing?

Many people have issues with alternative sexual practices and can see what I, an active sexual sadist, do as unsafe and even threatening.

So should I be worried about being protected against?

The issue that this brings up is what is considered "safe". In the BDSM world we tend to understand that there's no such thing as being 100% safe. It's a concept that is mythical, and fictional. Sitting there at your computer reading this there is a chance, no matter how small, that you could be hurt, harmed, or even killed.

That is true throughout the world. Both online and offline. The world is not safe. The internet is not safe.

At best you can make things safeR, but never safe.

But given your recent announcement of transparency I also have to ask, what is the process for being deemed "unsafe"? Are people going to be told they are being unsafe? Is there an appeal process? What are the punishments for being unsafe? Are there varying degrees of unsafeness?

This seems like an ideal that sounds good in political-speak and on paper but can, and should, be questioned quite a bit before being implemented.

piitza · 3 時間前

So when are we utilizing the thought police? Seems like that's next.

Thing is, the internet is sorta like a public place. You don't have to go to those places if it has things you don't want to see/hear. So there is a subreddit you don't like? DON'T GO THERE.

If people are posting in a subreddit, and they are reported, the mods can handle that. While some mods are corrupt and use the power of a mod (apparently the only power they can get their hands on in their lives) to do things that aren't cool.

You are not entitled to a safe place on the internet. It is the goddamn internet. Everyone can get to anything that is on said internet. You're removing the personal accountability and responsibility from users to not be a fucking retard and put their whole lives on the internet.

With 35% of the user base concerned over censorship what is being done about that?

As another user noted, if you didn't like something that was on the internet you turned your PC off and went outside. People need to harden up, this politically correct and feels bullshit needs to stop.

Encourage people to go see a therapist if they get an anxiety attack ranging from being obese and seeing a person skinnier than them, or a female becoming uncomfortable because a guy said hello and smiled on the street or WHATEVER.

I notice people are getting banned from subreddits where they don't even post or browse there because they browse a specific subreddit or have upvoted, commented, or anything there. All of this under the guise of "protecting their subreddits users". Sounds like thought police to me, if people do go into a sub and post shit that's not liked, you report to the moderators, and if rules are broken they'll handle the comment accordingly per the rules. That is already a system in place. People will come back and it'll happen again until they get bored and stop posting. But banning for not even going to the sub? That is the shit that pisses me off.

Reddit is not responsible for the protection of their users to a degree. Users are responsible for what they post, share, or read on a forum that almost anyone can see

This site really pisses me off, and really seems SJW more than anything. I hate saying that, but it is. Its really disturbing to see a bunch of dirty shit the CEO has done with her past, her husband doesn't seem like a stand up guy, and now all this crap is starting? I'm ready to jump ship when you guys are, because I see a huge migration here shortly.

Sorry for the rant but this legitimately upsets me.

Dlgredael · 3 時間前

This is having the exact opposite effect on me. I don't want to use reddit because I'm afraid that by getting in a disagreement with someone, they're going to report me and you're going to ban me. I have spent time debating people, which can be confrontational, and even though I don't take it to an extreme level I still don't feel okay with even participating in a debate anymore when your rules are so poorly defined. If you're going to come up with a blanket rule like this that affects everything, you could at least be clear enough that people can actually tell what it takes to break it.

the_leif · 5 時間前

Well here's something nobody wants or asked for.

X019 · 4 時間前

Long time reddit user, (ex)default sub mod, blah blah blah. I've seen lots of stuff go through reddit. I've seen a slow shift as well. I see users with accounts under a day old shadowbanned because they're trying to get their blog out there. I've seen repost spammers on the front page repeatedly, I was here when the Digg exodus happened. I fear for changes in reddit.

Last week, we announced our internal company values, and we were proud to say: We value privacy, freedom of expression, open discussion, and humanity, and we want to make sure that we uphold these principles for all kinds of people. We didn’t announce them because we’d accomplished them, rather because we are striving for them.

...

Today, we’re making another change that we believe will help make reddit a better place for everyone.

It’s a major overhaul of the site, the kind of radical change that risks alienating longtime users even as it takes advantage of the powerful social tools that have revolutionized the internet’s flow of information. ... He says the excitement of the unknown and the fast pace of development reminds him of the old days.
“It makes it feel like a startup again,” he says.

Now, am I saying that your change here is as significant and the Digg 2.0 disaster? Of course not. But, they were sure of their changes would make Digg a better place for everyone too. Is harassment bad? Of course. But I don't know how I feel about you guys making some arbitrary definition of what deems harassment. If someone is harassing a user on a subreddit, let the mods deal with it. If someone links to some page outside of reddit, let the mods deal with it. If a whole subreddit is offensive to someone, tell them to pull of their big-kid pants and either learn to stay away from it or block it. I guess that I'm saying here is I'm worried that whole subreddits will be shut down in the name of "protecting the 'harassed'." and I feel that would fly in the face if your stated company values.

Maverick0325 · 7 時間前

In recent years I've noticed more and more companies releasing statements like this. Typically stating that there is something they will not do, then immediately do that thing.

This change will have no immediately noticeable impact on more than 99.99% of our users. It is specifically designed to prevent attacks against people, not ideas. It is our challenge to balance free expression of ideas with privacy and safety as we seek to maintain and improve the quality and range of discourse on reddit.

How can we be certain that moderators won't use this new harassment policy as an excuse to censor ideas they disagree with?

niczar · 5 時間前

Would you care to comment on this occurence, whereby a guy's dick was hosted on your servers without his consent and you did nothing about it? Does it only matter when it happens to wymyn?

i_lost_my_password · 6 時間前

On the internet, as in real life, I value liberty over safety.

krautchanner · 3 時間前

It seems like Reddit is slowly being taken over by Chairman Pao and his goon squad of SJWs & asslickers who are desperately struggling for power and influence on this sinking ship, and in the process, Selling out their userbase and subjecting them to series of authoritarian edicts and deranged threats. They are only doing this because Reddit is so big that they think themselves untouchable, which is of course true to certain extent and allows them to push the census to whatever direction they want.

The only way we can fight this is to completely ignore everything they are introducing. Do not be frightened by their threats. Do not let them instill fear on your free self-expression. What's the worse you can lose? Worthless karma & modship on some internet rooms? Who cares... Your freedom of speech is worth more than that! Personally I have never censored my opinions on this site, and I'm certainly not gonna start now. I express myself as I see fit, and I don't need the moral compass of some self-righteous delusional "protectors of people" to tell me what I am (not) allowed to say. If you don't mind, I will just proceed to express myself and my opinions, free of filters, and if that gets me banned, then so be it.

As of today I am re-instating my Adblock on this site. I already swore off buying gold since the last shit you pulled. I urge everyone to do the same.

mobugs · 6 時間前

Instead of promoting free expression of ideas, we are seeing our open policies stifling free expression; people avoid participating for fear of their personal and family safety

Does this mean you're finally shutting SRS down?

XPythagoras · 7 時間前

Don't 'keep everyone safe'. This isn't Facebook, reddit is a free speech platform and I don't think that the omniscient mods like /u/kn0thing should be able to dictate to subreddits how they should handle their community. Censorship should be the subreddit's decision. If we feel that some sub's should be silenced then we are no better than they are.

Manadox · 5 時間前

censor free thought, supress dissenting opinions

FTFY

MARsDoesNothing · 6 時間前

Now you can get banned if you say anything bad about a specific person.

I wonder if Ellen Pao had anything to do with this? I would imagine she's tired of everyone knowing the truth about her.

moush · 3 時間前

So does this mean that subs like SRS/SRD are going to be banned considering they promote attacking?

notdrunkinflorida · 6 時間前

I think you're jumping the shark here Alex. Who's going to decide what's 'safe'? Mods are the last people I trust to do that.

The internet is inherently toxic, you can't fix that. I get that you want to get rid of /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/coontown and people have said some over-the-top nasty things about Ellen Pao but I'm afraid what this is also going to do is ban dissenting opinions. This sounds awfully despotic to me.

edit: just realized his name is Alexis, sorry bout that

IAmTurdFerguson · 5 時間前

So are we officially jumping ship to Voat now? This is an SJW sinking ship.

Petrarch1603 · 6 時間前

When will Ellen Pao do an AMA?

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