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Promote ideas, protect people (redditblog.com)
kn0thing[A] が 2 時間 前 投稿
[–]got_milk4 172 ポイント173 ポイント174 ポイント 2 時間 前 (93子コメント)
This is a very abstract blog post - what, exactly, do the admins plan to do when complains of harassment are submitted?
[–]Furyhunter 36 ポイント37 ポイント38 ポイント 1 時間 前 (7子コメント)
http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/35ym8t/promote_ideas_protect_people/cr917vo
essentially, reddit administration will investigate harassment reports rather than subreddit mods.
[–]got_milk4 46 ポイント47 ポイント48 ポイント 1 時間 前 (5子コメント)
Doesn't really answer the question though. What happens if someone is found to be breaking the rules? Do they get banned? Are there lesser offences which would be a warning versus a ban? If they were banned, would they know they were banned or would it be a shadowban?
This is the problem with these blog posts as of late - they're very abstract with "big ideas" and absolutely zero documentation on how these "big ideas" see implementations.
[–]Furyhunter 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
this is a legitimate complaint and the way I perceive it, they're going to handle it on a case-by-case basis.
I think that's probably the only correct way to handle harassment reports. How do you classify and group different levels of harassment? How do you determine ban lengths for something like that? The kinds of people actively harassing users are making multiple accounts and doing everything they can to continue harassing. It doesn't make sense to apply traditional internet moderation policy to something so complicated.
[–]lamaksha77 39 ポイント40 ポイント41 ポイント 1 時間 前 (9子コメント)
It seems to be written as vaguely as possible, so that the admins have the right to scrub any discussions/ subs that are going to affect their going rate with the advertisers.
/r/fatpeoplehate is just one Anderson Cooper special away from getting the axe. Similarly, I would expect this new rule to be used liberally whenever the circlejerk gets too focused on a celebrity, and their promoter gives a call/cheque to the Reddit admins. Feast your eyes on this Beyonce, motherfuckers, the wild west days of Reddit seems to be truly over.
[–]SuperConductiveRabbi 94 ポイント95 ポイント96 ポイント 1 時間 前 (56子コメント)
What about when the perceived perpetrator of harassment is an entire subreddit? E.g., is /r/fatpeoplehate (which i use as a barometer for free speech on Reddit) considered to be harassment under this policy, even if it's not directed at specific users?
[–]Swamp85 33 ポイント34 ポイント35 ポイント 1 時間 前 (44子コメント)
The sub may not be directed at specific users but they frequently post pictures of fat people from other places on Reddit, find the original post and then go harass the shit out of them.
[–]SuperConductiveRabbi 39 ポイント40 ポイント41 ポイント 1 時間 前 (39子コメント)
So is all criticism of other users banned on Reddit, as it'd be possible to claim you feel harassed from it? Are we dependent upon the closed-door judgment of admins to determine where the line is drawn? Is there no ability for existing users to see "case law" on this, and be given a clear and bulleted list of examples of what constitutes harassment vs. acceptable behavior?
[–]NorsteinBekkler 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 59 分 前 (6子コメント)
All criticism is considered harassment these days. A lot of people on reddit treat any disagreement as a personal attack - you're either with someone or the source of all their problems.
I'm going to wait and see how the admins approach this, but I'm not hopeful. This is the exact opposite of the hands-off approach that they have championed up to this point, and you know that it will be abused by users and mods alike.
[–]PlaidDragon 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 56 分 前 (0子コメント)
On the flip side, a lot of people don't know how to properly give criticism without attacking the user personally.
[–]SuperConductiveRabbi 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 54 分 前 (2子コメント)
The scary thing is that your approach of "wait and see" might not even work--because shadowbans and the other actions admins take are entirely opaque. There is no public log of what they do and why. It may be that dissenting voices just gradually disappear, and even users like you who are looking for the warning signs never see them.
E.g., the admin here said that the guy who criticized Ellen Pao in /r/blog yesterday was shadowbanned for a rule violation. Great. In a random sample, how many Redditors are guilty of rule violations, such as the accidental vote from an alt account from time to time? Why is it that the rule violation was discovered precisely when he got attention for criticizing the CEO of Reddit? This is most likely evidence of selective enforcement. Just like everyone doing 75 MPH on a 65 MPH road, it means that every single person can be prosecuted at any time, and it gives the authorities carte blanche to target anyone at any time, then point back to a rule that was legitimately broken.
[–]Sigerets 101 ポイント102 ポイント103 ポイント 1 時間 前 (11子コメント)
You are making me feel a bit unsafe here. I require a safe space at all times. Safety. Safe. Safeness. Safeteosity.
admins pls ban thx
[–]drcross 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
Time was, if you didnt like what was written on the intenet you turned off the screen and walked fucking outside. I can't stand this fucking politically correct bullshit. We need to tell people to harden the fuck up, use an anonymous internet name and don't feed the trolls, problem solved.
[–]lamaksha77 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 47 分 前 (0子コメント)
Actually, I feel the subreddit system adequately deals with this. Don't like a community, or their common interests? Fine, unsubscribe and find something else that doesn't offend you.
The problem is, having lots of little subreddits for freely discussing anything under the sun - from loving Jesus, to atheism, to hating blackpeople, to loving black cock - while this is all very good for freedom of expression and all that liberal cool-aid, its not going to sit well from a marketing perspective.
Which is what this gradual shift is about. Scrub up the more unsavoury parts of Reddit under the guise of 'protecting people', and try to improve the brand image of Reddit among people that really matter to the admins (hint: its not the vast majority of users, unless you happen to have an extra 6figure sum and an ad campaign you want to push off)
[–]pie-oh 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 33 分 前* (0子コメント)
As with every post the last week it's a lot of hot air.
It's like the TSA, theatre to suggest they are active in trying to create a better community. While also spending their time trying to sell their next product.
In all honesty, the last posts have felt more disconnected from the community. In terms of voice, and behaviour, than I've ever seen before.
Edit: Can I also point out what it's like contacting the admins as is? They don't do anything. I only presume because the amount of requests they have. So what good is it adding more work for them?
[–]70616c616b6b6164616e 219 ポイント220 ポイント221 ポイント 2 時間 前* (39子コメント)
What if it's the mods of a subreddit (like /r/india) doing the harassment?
[–]5days[A] 137 ポイント138 ポイント139 ポイント 2 時間 前 (16子コメント)
Moderators are still users and the harassment will still be investigated by us and treated as we would any other user.
[–]Khiva 23 ポイント24 ポイント25 ポイント 1 時間 前 (8子コメント)
Can we get any sense of what method you plan to apply when investigating accusations of harassment (particularly against mods), by what standards you'd choose which accusations to investigate, and whether you plan to publish openly the results and findings from your investigations?
It's a tricky needle to thread, particularly since people would clearly try to game the system the more they know about it, but there's something to be said for openly publicizing "this is what got you banned, this is what we won't tolerate."
[–]slccsoccer28 32 ポイント33 ポイント34 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
What are the appropriate ways to report said harassment?
EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't fully read the article.
If you are being harassed, report the private message, post or comment and user by emailing contact@reddit.com or modmailing us; include external links if they are relevant.
[–]kn0thing[S] 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
from the post:
If you are being harassed, report the private message, post or comment and user by emailing contact AT reddit.com or modmailing us; include external links if they are relevant.
[–]slccsoccer28 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
I'm really sorry I some how missed that line. I appreciate you posting it here :)
[–]ani625 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Great. Thank you.
[–]ImAtWorkBeNice 91 ポイント92 ポイント93 ポイント 2 時間 前 (19子コメント)
paging /r/shitredditsays
[–]1wf 85 ポイント86 ポイント87 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
That would be the admins :-)
[–]jesus_laughed 32 ポイント33 ポイント34 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Only one of the ex-admins joined them openly:
/u/intortus
[–]Deathcrow 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 40 分 前 (1子コメント)
openly
[–]overallprettyaverage 701 ポイント702 ポイント703 ポイント 2 時間 前 (342子コメント)
Still waiting on some word on the state of shadow banning
[–]ImAtWorkBeNice 206 ポイント207 ポイント208 ポイント 2 時間 前 (86子コメント)
This guy got shadowbanned yesterday for talking about the CEO
[–]Oxxide 94 ポイント95 ポイント96 ポイント 1 時間 前 (11子コメント)
for the love of god make that a no participation link, you almost got me shadowbanned.
[–]OswaldWasAFag 41 ポイント42 ポイント43 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Glad you can appreciate just how ridiculous that rule is.
[–]NicholasCajun 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 20 分 前 (0子コメント)
I still don't know if I'm allowed to follow links to subreddits I already subscribe to and then vote and comment from that link.
[–]greenduch 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 1 時間 前 (8子コメント)
/r/announcements does not use np CSS and therefore I'm really unclear how an np link would make any difference for you? Its just a CSS hack made by users, not some magical thing that prevents shadowbans.
[–]absurdlyobfuscated 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 45 分 前 (1子コメント)
RES and mobile apps have safeguards that prevent voting in np domain pages.
[–]andytuba 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 26 分 前 (0子コメント)
RES fires warnings at you, but you have to manually turn on more restrictive safeguards. I know I've seen similar warnings on mobile apps but I didn't think any of them actively blocked you from participating without you explicitly turning on that behavior.
[–]duckvimes_ 31 ポイント32 ポイント33 ポイント 1 時間 前 (5子コメント)
I'm just going to go against the circlejerk for a second and point out that there's no evidence he was shadowbanned for that comment. I see people posting things like that hundreds of times a day without getting shadowbanned.
[–]Bardfinn 70 ポイント71 ポイント72 ポイント 1 時間 前 (9子コメント)
That guy got shadowbanned for making an alternate account in order to evade a subreddit ban.
[–]alexanderwales 68 ポイント69 ポイント70 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Shadowbans are given without a reason being stipulated. There's not (to my knowledge) any log of who shadowbanned a user or why. There doesn't seem to be any accountability. The process is incredibly opaque (not "transparent"). So you can understand some reluctance to believe that he was shadowbanned for some totally different reason after making that comment, right? Given that we have no way of knowing why or when someone was shadowbanned, or who did it?
[–]notdrunkinflorida 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Oh, really.
[–]krispykrackers[A] 53 ポイント54 ポイント55 ポイント 1 時間 前 (45子コメント)
Yeah. I can see how it totally looks like he got banned for that reason. It's just simply not true. He was banned for breaking a site rule. If we were truly trying to silence people talking about our CEO, we're doing a pretty terrible job of it.
[–]Skulowllowleton 69 ポイント70 ポイント71 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
which rule did he break?
[–]RobKhonsu 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 26 分 前 (0子コメント)
Who the fuck knows. What makes you think reddit wants to be transparent on the actions they take. You'd think they'd be making blog posts or something like they if they did.
[–]allthefoxes 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 時間 前 (4子コメント)
They tend to keep that between them and the banned user
[–]_Dale_Gribble 40 ポイント41 ポイント42 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Which rule?
[–]GrayManTheory 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 34 分 前 (0子コメント)
we're doing a pretty terrible job of it.
There are like 10 topics from the first page of your own link talking about deletions, censoring, and shadowbanning of members talking about her and her scheming husband.
[–]SuperConductiveRabbi 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前* (1子コメント)
Did he receive increased scrutiny due to the fact that he was sharing an opinion with which the admins might have taken offense? If so, is that not a case of selective enforcement?
In other words, if someone broke a site rule by voting on something with sock puppets, but tended to stick to small subreddits rather than publicly criticizing Reddit, would that person have a smaller probability of being banned?
From what I've seen, I'd tend to say that the people who share dissenting opinions are far more likely to be investigated for rule violations. It's also quite easy to slip up and vote twice on something if you use multiple accounts--I know, because I have multiple accounts and did slip up. What percentage of users break these rules? What percentage of those users are caught, and how many of those are caught because they attracted the attention of the admins due to their opinions?
In my case, my (unintentional) slip ups were caught because a mod flipped out at my persistent-yet-civil counter arguments regarding a deletion of an article. He told me to suck his dick, twice. This garnered a backlash from other users, which caused the mod to say he was reporting his opponents to the admins. The admins then banned me, for a time. Had I not argued against a powerful user by sharing an opinion he didn't want to hear, I would not have been targeted for an investigation. What percentage of users could this situation apply to? I'm guessing a lot, as everyone should use multiple accounts, to keep personal details separate from controversial arguments.
[–]Peoples_Bropublic 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 57 分 前 (2子コメント)
Okay, so he was banned for breaking a site rule. I have a couple of questions regarding that. Would he have been banned if he had not made that comment, or was he only found to be in violation because he was under extra scrutiny for his remarks? Second, why was he shadowbanned rather than banned in the normal way?
[–]Deathcrow 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 37 分 前 (0子コメント)
Second, why was he shadowbanned rather than banned in the normal way?
I don't think there is any 'regular' ban. A shadowban AFAIK is the only kind of side-wide ban that exists. This is the case because Reddit used to be a haven for free speech and shadowbans were only used for illegal content or spammers (no need to be courteous to those).
[–]RamonaLittle 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 35 分 前 (0子コメント)
He was banned for breaking a site rule.
But meanwhile other people who regularly break site rules -- and were reported multiple times to the admins -- haven't been banned. So yeah, of course people assume it's from talking about the CEO, not breaking site rules.
And if the admins cared about site rules, they'd reply to mods who ask for clarification about how to apply them.
The "rules" are BS unless they're clear and applied consistently, which they never have been.
[–]notdrunkinflorida 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 21 分 前 (0子コメント)
We're not stupid, he was the first one to start with the Ponzi scheme stuff and he got banned for it.
[–]Skulowllowleton 34 ポイント35 ポイント36 ポイント 59 分 前 (1子コメント)
Buddy Fletcher, husband of Reddit CEO Ellen Pao, is being described as being the operator of Ponzi scheme ~144 million dollars of a pension fund was lost Ellen Pao is now accused of frivolous lawsuits to try and stay afloat and some other shit. Seeing as she is a CEO of a large company and has a fraudster for a husband I think it's safe to say we have a textbook ASPD/Sociopath on our hands
[–]RoHbTC 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 56 分 前 (0子コメント)
Which rule did he break?
[–]jbusts 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 30 分 前 (0子コメント)
All the top search search results are about moderators censoring any negative press about Ellen Pao. So you just successfully proved that A) you are trying to suppress the news and B) you're actually doing a very thorough job of it.
The "don't post personal information" rule is not relevant here, as Ellen Pao is a public figure and this is a newsworthy story.
Inb4 I get shadow banned.
[–]TheCid 47 ポイント48 ポイント49 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Shadowbanning should be reserved solely for spammers. Using it on anyone else is just a hamfisted attempt to silence people, and we all know how well that works.
[–]kn0thing[S,A] 313 ポイント314 ポイント315 ポイント 2 時間 前 (125子コメント)
I hear you. This was a product decision we made literally 10 years ago -- it has not been updated and it needs to be. Back when we made it, we had only annoying marketers to deal with and it was easier to 'neuter' them (that's what we called it) and let them think they could keep spamming us so that we could focus on more important things like building the site.
We've recently hired someone for this task and it will also be more user-friendly.
[–]hestonkent 108 ポイント109 ポイント110 ポイント 2 時間 前 (77子コメント)
Any insight on when we might hear more about it? Glad one of you guys are finally responding to this issue.
[–]kn0thing[S] 166 ポイント167 ポイント168 ポイント 2 時間 前 (75子コメント)
Soon as we have something to share. Admittedly, it was an ugly hack 10 years ago that's still being used -- that's a problem.
[–]hestonkent 57 ポイント58 ポイント59 ポイント 2 時間 前 (72子コメント)
So, if I'm understanding right, the "ugly hack" is the system that is in place today, and you won't have anything to share until the system is updated?
Well at least that's good news for people who've been interested in seeing it change.
[–]kn0thing[S] 121 ポイント122 ポイント123 ポイント 1 時間 前 (71子コメント)
Yes, I know it hasn't come soon enough. That's on us.
[–]matt01ss 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント 1 時間 前 (21子コメント)
Shadowbans still work well for spammers/advertisers. I suppose a new "type" of ban will be needed.
[–]ErenBasukezu 29 ポイント30 ポイント31 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I suppose a new "type" of ban
Like... a regular ban, with a regular message stating "You have been banned".
[–]kn0thing[S] 41 ポイント42 ポイント43 ポイント 1 時間 前 (19子コメント)
It's actually still used a vast majority of the time (north of 90%) on spammers/advertisers. I know it's an easy meme to latch on to, but that's the truth of it.
By my estimate, a significant percentage of the few people who do get banned and aren't spammers/advertisers, could be reformed if we just made it all more explicit -- that's what we're going to do.
[–]needless_insults 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 1 時間 前* (3子コメント)
And what about those of us who had accounts get shadow banned for unknown reasons and have been ignored by the admin team completely, to the point where we don't even know why we we're banned despite asking multiple times.
Edit: this direct reply will get ignored too.
[–]DownvotesAdminPosts 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 42 分 前 (0子コメント)
And what about those of us who had accounts get shadow banned for unknown reasons and have been ignored by the admin team completely
I'm one of those, too!
sadly, yep
[–]Dramatic_______Pause 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
How about adding a retroactive appeal process as well? My original account was shadowbanned after years with no idea why, and any message to admins goes unanswered...
[–]hestonkent 78 ポイント79 ポイント80 ポイント 1 時間 前 (46子コメント)
There's a mass mob mentality in this thread that'll probably end up torching your comments, but serious props for answering the question that's on a lot of people's mind, and admitting that there's a problem.
Not many websites have that admin-to-end-user connection quite like reddit does.
[–]kn0thing[S] 73 ポイント74 ポイント75 ポイント 1 時間 前 (40子コメント)
It's all good. I've seen a few of these in my day. Heh.
I don't blame you for being frustrated with it -- it's a bad user experience and we lose plenty of otherwise great users because they just don't understand how the site works and have a bad user experience (with no explanation or clear reform process).
[–]hestonkent 25 ポイント26 ポイント27 ポイント 1 時間 前 (8子コメント)
it's a bad user experience and we lose plenty of otherwise great users because they just don't understand how the site works and have a bad user experience
So much this, thank you for saying it. According to the current rules, since my other account /u/CationBot is banned from /r/IAmA (due to their no novelty account rule, no other reason) then this account would technically warrant a shadowban because I have since participated in AMAs. I think some people would be upset if either accounts went missing. Maybe it's wishful thinking...
[–]drocks27 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 45 分 前 (0子コメント)
yep would be upset. You also do bring up a really interesting gray area . It's not like you were not welcome, but just one of your accounts falls into the not welcome group.
[–]francis2559 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Can confirm, would be upset.
[–]EditingAndLayout 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
http://i.imgur.com/V0u0S54.gif
[–]Adwinistrator 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 57 分 前 (1子コメント)
they just don't understand how the site works
I was shadowbanned for voting on posts in a thread that I was linked to from another sub. I received no warning, just poof. I have been using this site for a long time, and did what most users end up doing. Reading discussions, voting, participating, following links, reading, voting, etc.
The sub I came from was not some meta-sub, where people are directed to posts, it was just an example someone used in a discussion.
I ended up in this small political sub, and ended up voting on posts based on the normal rules, I was upvoting well thought out posts and good points, and downvoting irrational and sensationalist posts that were diminishing the discussion.
I was shadowbanned, and was never informed until a bot let me know.
The admin I spoke with said I was part of a brigade...
As far as I am concerned, unless the sub in question is some meta-sub, or the post you get linked from is inciting a brigade, simply following a link and participating in a sub you aren't a member of, is NOT a brigade.
Just because a bunch of people did the same thing as me, does not make me part of some orchestrated group skirting reddit's rules. I was simply one person, perusing through reddit, voting on posts, and for that I was shadowbanned.
[–]two_xjs 46 ポイント47 ポイント48 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
wow an actual response to a shadowban question
[–]_____FRESH_____ 30 ポイント31 ポイント32 ポイント 2 時間 前 (6子コメント)
New message: "Congratulations...you have been shadow banned!"
[–]stengebt 28 ポイント29 ポイント30 ポイント 1 時間 前 (4子コメント)
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
[–]kn0thing[S] 35 ポイント36 ポイント37 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Definitely needs a donger.
(╭ರᴥ•́)
[–]TotesMessenger 31 ポイント32 ポイント33 ポイント 1 時間 前* (13子コメント)
This thread has been linked to from another place on reddit.
[/r/metahub] Users have been complaining about shadowbanning policies for a while, admin /u/kn0thing finally responds: "We've recently hired someone for this task and it will also be more user-friendly."
[/r/misdirection] Don't click this
[/r/oppression] Reddit co-founder plans to do an overhaul of 10 year old shadowban system
[/r/shittheadminssay] kn0thing explains where shadow bans originally came from and says that a new hire will make the process for user friendly
[/r/shittheadminssay] kn0thing explains where shadow bans originally came from and says that a new hire will make the process more user friendly
[/r/subredditcancer] Admin /u/kn0thing admits that for the last 10 years, they've been treating users like potential spammers and been punishing them with a nasty shadowban.
If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote. (Info / Contact)
[–]GTS250 27 ポイント28 ポイント29 ポイント 1 時間 前 (9子コメント)
/r/oppression? That's a thing?
[–]robotortoise 48 ポイント49 ポイント50 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
I think it's ironic.
Edit: it is not.
[–]Jezamiah 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 38 分 前 (0子コメント)
Some of these thread titles smh Soo sensationalist
[–]overallprettyaverage 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's awesome to hear you guys are looking at this critically. It seems that this is an issue that's bothering a very large number of users, and for good reason, now that you're pushing the transparency and freedom of speech thing. Maybe a blog post on this would put a lot of people at ease.
[–]leefna 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 1 時間 前 (9子コメント)
Is reddit, the product, a gun-wielding robot that goes around forcing admins to shadowban people?
[–]notwhereyouare 84 ポイント85 ポイント86 ポイント 2 時間 前 (42子コメント)
promote your ideas! as long as it follows our idea and these rules that we won't actually fully publish
[–]Patrick_Surtain 47 ポイント48 ポイント49 ポイント 2 時間 前 (15子コメント)
I don't get why they even post these blogs anymore... the only way that it caters to people they want is if they only read the title and move on. The comments are brutal to the admins.
[–]AltLogin202 38 ポイント39 ポイント40 ポイント 2 時間 前* (9子コメント)
They're pandering to advertisers. reddit is (rightfully) earning a negative reputation for some of its content and users.
Posting meangingless feel-good drivel like this makes companies feel better about making ad buys.
edit: when did this sub begin hiding the vote count for submissions? Fairly certain that started after the ridiculous "values" post. But it would not have mattered because that post had positive karma the first few hours. I know it was around +500 when I downvoted it.
[–]bolivar-shagnasty 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Also, we embrace free speech as evidenced by our allowing hate subs to spread like cancer. But we want to "protect people", whatever the fuck that means.
[–]AndroidL 65 ポイント66 ポイント67 ポイント 2 時間 前 (4子コメント)
Yeah, I don't understand why they're ignoring this issue. According to the post, they 'value' "freedom of expression" and "open discussion". Shadow banning kind of goes against this. I'm not saying I disagree with shadow banning, but there needs to be a warning or some notifications. They also say they value "humanity". Imagine everyone you meet in your life pretends you don't exist and no one responds or talks to you - that isn't humane and is essentially what shadow banning is.
[–]Batty-Koda 39 ポイント40 ポイント41 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm not saying I disagree with shadow banning, but there needs to be a warning or some notifications.
Then yes, you ARE saying you disagree with it. The "Shadow" part of "shadow ban" means not having those things.
The reason it doesn't have those things is so spammers don't know to just to make a new account. Same deal for trolls and brigades. Whether or not you're okay with that, I don't know, but if you're going to not be okay with no-notifications, you are by definition not okay with shadow bans.
[–]Thesemenmaster 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 2 時間 前 (1子コメント)
They ignore it because they don't value "freedom of expression" nor "open discussion." They just want it to seem like they do.
[–]Bardfinn 100 ポイント101 ポイント102 ポイント 1 時間 前x4 (24子コメント)
You're going to wait a very long time.
I'm not reddit; I don't work for them nor speak for them.
I'm a retired IT / programmer / sysadmin / computer scientist.
25 years ago I started running dial-up bulletin board systems, and dealing with what are today called "trolls" — sociopaths and individuals who believe that the rules do not apply to them. This was before the Internet was open to the public, before AOL patched in, before the Eternal September.
Before CallerID was made a public specification, I learned of it, and built my own electronics to pick up the CallerID signal and pipe it to my bulletin board's software, where I kept a blacklist of phone numbers that were not allowed to log in to my BBS, they'd get hung up on; I wrote and soldered and built — before many of you were even born — the precursor of the shadowban.
You will never be told exactly what will earn a shadowban, because telling you means telling the sociopaths, and then they will figure out a way to get around it, or worse, they will file shitty, frivolous lawsuits in bad faith for being shadowbanned while "not having done anything wrong". That will cost reddit time and money to respond to those shitty, frivolous lawsuits (I speak from multiple instances of experience with this).
Shadowbans are intentionally a grey area, an unknown, a nebulous and unrestricted tool that the administrators will use at their sole discretion in order to keep reddit running, to keep hordes of spammers off the site, to keep child porn off the site and out of your face as you read this with your children looking over your shoulder, your boss looking over your shoulder, your family looking over your shoulder, your government looking over your shoulder.
Running a 50-user bulletin board system, even with a black list to keep the shittiest sociopaths off it, was nearly a full-time job. Running a website with millions of users is a phenomenal undertaking.
I read a lot of comments from a small group that are upset by shadowbans, are afraid of the bugbear, or perhaps have been touched by it and are yet somehow still here commenting.
I think the only person that really has any cause to talk about shadowban unfairness is the one guy who was commenting here for three years and suddenly figured it out, and was nothing but smiles and gratefulness to finally be talking to people. I think he has the right attitude.
Running reddit is hard. If you don't want to be shadowbanned, follow the rules of reddit, and ask nicely for it to be lifted if you suspect you are shadowbanned.
[–]floor-pi 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 53 分 前 (1子コメント)
one guy who was commenting here for three years and suddenly figured it out
Holy shit.
[–]auxiliary-character 24 ポイント25 ポイント26 ポイント 1 時間 前 (13子コメント)
Security by obscurity, yay!
[–]Bardfinn 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 1 時間 前 (7子コメント)
Security by null routing. It's used to combat email spammers, it's used to combat Denial of Service attempts, it's used to combat password brute force grinder bots. Tricking them into wasting their resources so they don't rework and refocus.
Real people can be identified, but only if they behave like real people, and participate in the community.
[–]auxiliary-character 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
You will never be told exactly what will earn a shadowban, because telling you means telling the sociopaths, and then they will figure out a way to get around it...
The thing protecting you here is that the nature of shadowbans is obscured from the sociopaths. If that's not security by obscurity, then I guess I'm not sure what the phrase is intended to be used for.
[–]christosoday 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 2 時間 前 (14子コメント)
I would just like to know what EXACTLY calls for a shawdowbob! I see no exact rules about it, and literally saw someone get banned over saying a few names it seemed like.
[–]wantingsilence 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 2 時間 前 (2子コメント)
It's when Bob steps out of the sunlight. :)
[–]K_Lobstah 35 ポイント36 ポイント37 ポイント 2 時間 前 (8子コメント)
So this will be enforced by admin, but how is reporting of it handled? Just modmail to /r/reddit.com? Are there plans to increase the efficiency or response rate for messages sent there? Will moderator reports of other users being harassed be given the same level of attention?
The vast majority of subscribers aren't even aware they can contact admin. We receive reports of harassment in modmail quite frequently.
[–]cj_would_lovethis 174 ポイント175 ポイント176 ポイント 2 時間 前 (24子コメント)
Based on your own data, 35% of the complaints from extremely dissatisfied users were about heavy handed moderation and censorship
What is being done about that?
[–]Lurlur 56 ポイント57 ポイント58 ポイント 1 時間 前 (5子コメント)
My guess? Being disregarded as moderators have autonomy over their subreddits. People are always gonna whine when they break rules and get caught.
[–]wantingsilence 54 ポイント55 ポイント56 ポイント 2 時間 前 (19子コメント)
The harassed can report their so called harassers, correct? Will the harassers get any notification or chance to defend themselves, or will they just be shadowbanned?
[–]vehementsquirrel 169 ポイント170 ポイント171 ポイント 2 時間 前 (65子コメント)
When will you clarify what constitutes brigading? Will you continue to ban people in secret for rules that are kept hidden from the users?
With regard to the new harassment rule, what remedy will Reddit admins employ against users accused of harassment? Will they also be shadowbanned, or will they be told they were banned and given an opportunity to respond to the accusation?
[–]caboose309 84 ポイント85 ポイント86 ポイント 1 時間 前 (62子コメント)
Considering SRS is a huge subreddit and is continually brigading the shit out of anyone they don't like, I really want to hear what their excuse for letting it happen is.
[–]DrFilbert 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 1 時間 前 (7子コメント)
What definition of brigading would apply to SRS but not /r/bestof, /r/worstof, and /r/defaultgems?
[–]robotortoise 31 ポイント32 ポイント33 ポイント 1 時間 前 (18子コメント)
It's not the worst offender anymore.
/r/bestof and /r/subredditdrama are. Both use NP links, but the mods and NP links can only do so much...
[–]duckvimes_ 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前 (16子コメント)
/r/subredditdrama's mods will ban anyone they catch voting or commenting in a linked thread, though.
[–]robotortoise 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Yeah, and they do a great job of it.
Still makes me wish for an official NP tool, though.
[–]MillenniumFalc0n 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
We do that, but unfortunately it doesn't prevent people from continuing to subscribe and invade if they so choose. Also we can only ban people for commenting, suspicious vote activity has to be forwarded to the admins.
[–]Dont-be_an-Asshole 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Not half as bad as /r/bestof
[–]SirT6 50 ポイント51 ポイント52 ポイント 1 時間 前* (25子コメント)
SRS is a huge subreddit
It has 65,000 suscribers; hardly huge. The persistence of the SRS is the worst brigade sub myth puzzles me.
[–]Yellowben 53 ポイント54 ポイント55 ポイント 1 時間 前 (14子コメント)
And then /r/bestof... huge sub. I think it was or is a default. Someone posts something there are BOOM! it gets upvote brigaded like anything. Like you know that one AMA someone did on /r/drunk? He got 100,000 alone from the thread AFTER being linked to /r/bestof. Before the linking, he didn't get much upvotes.
[–]noisufroloc 24 ポイント25 ポイント26 ポイント 1 時間 前 (8子コメント)
People tend to complain a lot less when they're getting upvote brigaded.
[–]cdcformatc 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
But whenever /r/bestof links to a post that is a rebuttal to others, you clearly see a swing in votes, and the addition of comments from people who clearly have an axe to grind.
[–]robotortoise 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
The problem is that if it's an argument, the guy the bestof poster is arguing with gets downvoted to hell.
[–]Yellowben 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Still a brigade, and it's against the rules
[–]noisufroloc 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Not saying it's perfectly within the rules, just that it's understandable why you don't see as many people complain about it.
[–]Malarazz 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Oh don't misunderstand, /r/bestof downvote brigades as well. If the bestof link is a response to someone the person was arguing with, people often go through his 'opponent' post history and downvote everything.
[–]cheese9999 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Plus only about 200 users online, compared to about 1500 from /r/bestof. SRS's big days are over, they're more of a boogeyman than anything else now.
[–]2015goodyear 46 ポイント47 ポイント48 ポイント 2 時間 前 (21子コメント)
So no new features or anything, just a new policy? That could be good. Can you elaborate on the policy though?
What happens if someone is reported for harassment? Reddit staff decides whether or not its harassment and then..... removes the content? Bans the harasser? Shadowbans the harasser? What's the plan?
[–]itty53 38 ポイント39 ポイント40 ポイント 2 時間 前 (8子コメント)
It's not a new policy, it's the same policy they have had in the past.
They've (admins) always held a double-standard and held to it that they can enforce 'rules' when they choose to and then let others slide when they choose to. It's always been the unofficial policy.
Now that's official policy: "We'll ban you for speaking about the wrong ideas, and call it 'harassment' because someone 'felt in danger', and no: We won't tell you what the 'wrong ideas' are. Figure that out on your own".
I should point out that my wife feels extreme fear and panic at the sight of a spider. Should users who post spider pictures be banned now?
[–]robotortoise 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah, I understand that they want to investigate these cases, but a list of what constitutes abuse and harassment is a good idea.
[–]kvachon 43 ポイント44 ポイント45 ポイント 1 時間 前* (6子コメント)
So is stuff like /r/justneckbeardthings and /r/fatpeoplehate against the rules now? Systematic and continued actions to demean people which would make any reasonable person feel unable to discuss any ideas that might go against the majority opinion? Or is it more for stuff like http://redd.it/35uiwv or http://redd.it/35xc8d which involves stalking a person to see what they post about where and for what purpose, solely to bring it forward to a group of people to judge and demean said person.
Which of those is now harrasement. If none are, then what is a concrete example of it. Does it need to be reported to you by the person being harrased? Does the admin team have to decide that they consider the treatment harassment? What constitutes feeling "like reddit isnt a safe place" seeing as its website with text comments.
To be honest, it seems like this rule is going to open a new can of worms, not solve any issues. You should either not allow mean comments, or not moderate legal comments. Trying to find that grey area is going to require you to choose sides on infinite endless battles between groups of people that honestly hate eachother. I know reddit tries its hardest to be a safe and friendly place, but there's a sub-section of this site that wants nothing more than to hate on things. Culture, people, trends, politics, reddit itself. ITs a pretty hate filled site outside of saner places like /r/aww or /r/askscience. ITs one of the prices you need to pay when you dont require anyone to reveal who they are. You cant expect anonymous people to retain their inhibitions and manners.
[–]trimalchio420 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
You won't get a straight answer on this.
[–]PedroIsWatching 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 52 分 前 (1子コメント)
The fact they finally gave a response on shadowbans in this very thread is surprising, though.
[–]SocksForBreakfast 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 31 分 前* (0子コメント)
Don't forget /r/punchablefaces and /r/trashy
Both are fun subs. I understand the reasoning behind this new rule, but I don't think it's going to be good for the site. This leaves way too much room for censorship of content.
[–]backtowriting 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
So, how do you distinguish harassment from legitimate criticism? And how can that be done in a transparent way?
Personally, I'm not sure it's possible to always make the distinction. What may look like legitimate criticism to X may seem like harassment to Y.
Was e.g. criticism of Adria Richards after the dongle-gate incident harassment? All of it? At what point is the line crossed?
[–]Manadox 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 51 分 前 (0子コメント)
censor free thought, supress dissenting opinions
FTFY
[–]itty53 90 ポイント91 ポイント92 ポイント 2 時間 前* (33子コメント)
Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation, or (2) fear for their safety or the safety of those around them.
What cracks me up is that this will apply to both sides of many arguments, but only one side is bound to get punished for it.
For instance: Is it safe for a conspiracy theorist to express their ideas and participate in conversation without being ridiculed? What about someone who thinks vaccines are dangerous? Or are those the dangerous ideas that need to be censored?
What does 'harassment' mean too? If someone calls me a name in a response, once (not-repeated), is that harassment? I've been insulted. I've been put 'in danger' of feeling insulted or harassed. Is this just a big 'be polite' rule? Because I've known plenty of polite trolls.
I'm not trying to defend harassers or anything - I've been the target of one individual in particular who followed and replied to comments as old as 6 months (and the admins banned him as soon as I reported him) - but the 'rules' that are being written here are vague and thus, flexible: They can apply when the admins choose and not apply when the admins don't. Which is exactly what's been happening, albeit unofficially. Now it seems it's official: Reddit admins will censor you and your ideas if they perceive them as 'scary'.
By this rule, it sounds to me that all the GamerGate/GamerGhazi infighting is banned: Those groups are both systematically harassing and demeaning each other. /r/fatpeoplehate seems a systematic harassment subreddit towards fat people (most of which are non-redditors).
And finally, I note that 'reasonable' is left out: All you have to be is afraid in order to claim you're being harassed. You don't have to be reasonably afraid, just afraid. I should note that most fears aren't reasonable at all. Nope, it says reasonable people. I wonder how they'll define 'reasonable'.
[–]MillenniumFalc0n 34 ポイント35 ポイント36 ポイント 1 時間 前 (11子コメント)
I was about to write up something about this. The problem with this rule's wording is that you can't maintain a "safe platform" for both /r/judaism and /r/gasthekikes.
[–]pastofor 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Or are those the dangerous ideas that need to be censored?
Their post specifically says you can attack ideas (just not harrass people).
That's another problem with reddit... the majority through downvotes can simply suppress minority opinions.
[–]IAmTurdFerguson 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 41 分 前 (2子コメント)
So are we officially jumping ship to Voat now? This is an SJW sinking ship.
[–]the_leif 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Well here's something nobody wants or asked for.
[–]I_smell_awesome 34 ポイント35 ポイント36 ポイント 2 時間 前 (4子コメント)
Why do I get the feeling that this is just a first step into removing downvotes?
[–]heyitsfred 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 50 分 前 (0子コメント)
I worry about this as well. Downvotes are what make Reddit work. Without downvotes, you end up with Facebook, a fluffy container of inoffensive, surface-level garbage, where nobody is allowed to point out or demote low-quality content. But it's really advertiser friendly, and has a lot more mainstream appeal, two things that Reddit does not have but likely really wants.
[–]chunes 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 53 分 前 (1子コメント)
Voting on submissions is a good way to curate content, but I wouldn't mind at all if they got rid of downvotes on comments. All that happens is you get downvoted if you say anything that doesn't fall in line with the majority in a comment thread.
It pretty much stifles dissenting opinions and every comment thread becomes an echo chamber.
[–]notdrunkinflorida 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
I think you're jumping the shark here Alex. Who's going to decide what's 'safe'? Mods are the last people I trust to do that.
The internet is inherently toxic, you can't fix that. I get that you want to get rid of /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/coontown and people have said some over-the-top nasty things about Ellen Pao but I'm afraid what this is also going to do is ban dissenting opinions. This sounds awfully despotic to me.
[–]Okichah 32 ポイント33 ポイント34 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
https://voat.co/
[–]danheskett 47 ポイント48 ポイント49 ポイント 2 時間 前 (2子コメント)
It's odd to have a post one day from admin's about transparency, and then the next day, have an entire new post which involves new rules that are nearly 100% opaque.
The definition of harassment is so vague as to be useless, as are the penalties.
[–]fortified_concept 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 1 時間 前* (0子コメント)
It was a preemptive strike to pretend they're transparent before screwing the userbase with completely vague rules that give the admins power to censor whoever they like or whichever group they like.
[–]Kalium 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 52 分 前* (0子コメント)
Often, that's the point of rules from the perspective of administrations. They give you enforcement ability and space to operate as you see fit while sharply limiting the ability of people to contest.
Taken to extremes, you get authoritarian nations where the law is whatever the current strongman says it is. In practice, you either wind up setting up pseudo-legal-systems that don't really satisfy users while being very inefficient or you rely on administration internal self-enforcement. Neither works perfectly.
[–]ecafyelims 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Reading over the survey results. I can't see where people were complaining about being harassed. I even went to the survey CSV and did a CTRL-F for "harass" and came up with 0 results.
I'm not convinced harassment is as big of an issue as you think.
Instead, like you say, the reason they don't recommend to friends is "they want to avoid exposing friends to hate and offensive content"
Well, offensive content can mean any range of things. I know a lot of people who are offended by the science behind climate change. I know others who are offended by LGBT in the public. I know a lot of people who are offended by nudity, in general.
I hope you're not going to start removing content based on reports of it being "offensive," and I'm scared you'll start shadowbanning users under general guideline of "harassment" such as calling out CEO's for misconduct.
Please tell me this isn't the plan.
[–]niczar 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 33 分 前 (1子コメント)
Would you care to comment on this occurence, whereby a guy's dick was hosted on your servers without his consent and you did nothing about it? Does it only matter when it happens to wymyn?
[–]starworks5 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 27 分 前 (0子コメント)
this
[–]MattyB4x4 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 27 分 前 (0子コメント)
TL;DR: Reddit will start censoring users comments if they are found offensive.
Hypocritical clowns.
[–]TotesMessenger 29 ポイント30 ポイント31 ポイント 2 時間 前* (0子コメント)
[/r/conspiracy] The beginning of the end; reddit admins will now censor any subreddit, submission, or comment which is found to contain "harassment".
[/r/metacancersubdrama] The cancer has spread: Admins hate free speech and want to destroy it
[/r/subredditcancer] "Promote ideas, protect people" - All for the common good
[–]Taedirk 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Systematic and/or continued actions to torment or demean someone in a way that would make a reasonable person (1) conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation
Having my account flagged to hide my posts from appearing to others with no warning, no confirmation outside third party checks, and little-to-no remedy makes me conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express ideas. Disagree with the wrong person and my voice is silenced for all.
[–]RobKhonsu 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Another empty blog post from a intellectually bankrupt corporation.
[–]KindaConfusedIGuess 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 51 分 前 (0子コメント)
So that means you're gonna shut down subs like /r/ShitRedditSays, /r/SubredditDrama, /r/Conspiratard, /r/GamerGhazi and /r/Fatpeoplehate, right?
You know, subs that actually revolve around harassment.
Probably not.
[–]1wf 160 ポイント161 ポイント162 ポイント 2 時間 前 (105子コメント)
I hope we aren't trying to become Tumblr. The internet isn't a safe space. It never has been and hopefully never will be - safe is boring, heavily regulated and Brave New Worldish.
I don't like personal attacks either - but this appears to be your grounds to ban subs like /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/fatlogic or /r/CandidFashionPolice .
You truly didn't clarify what actions you plan to take to stop harassment. Its either a toothless policy OR a policy absent clear standards/transparency. . .
[–]homoiconic 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 52 分 前 (0子コメント)
safe is boring
What is your definition of “unsafe?”
For most people, an “unsafe space” is one where other people can say not-nice things about them, like accuse them of having White Privilege, or accuse them of being complicit in systemic discrimination.
Putting up with people saying not-nice things seems like a small price to pay for unfettered freedom of speech.
But for a small number of people, an “unsafe space” is one where people advocate that they be raped or murdered, or one where people organize SWATting.
Many of these things are covered by existing policies, and it’s good to ask for transparency around what these changes really mean. But it’s a little misleading to talk about “safe being boring” unless you are one of the small number of people for whom “unsafe” is really, terrifyingly unsafe.
[–]XPythagoras 51 ポイント52 ポイント53 ポイント 2 時間 前 (23子コメント)
Totally agree. I don't want reddit to become a padded cell like Tumblr or a dirty box in an alleyway like 4chan. I just want reddit to stay as is.
[–]kn0thing[S] 42 ポイント43 ポイント44 ポイント 1 時間 前 (20子コメント)
You know what inspired reddit? Speakers Corner's in London.
I studied abroad in London for a semester and it really inspired me (I came back States-side and started a phpbb forum and then a year later Steve and I made reddit).
It's a place where literally anyone can get on a soapbox and talk about what matters to them. I listened to Iraqis (2003) argue for AND against the Iraq war, heard a really hateful speech by the Nation of Islam, was moved by a woman talking about the need for better mental health treatment in the UK, watched a man argue for Gay Rights standing across from a VERY conservative christian telling him he'd burn in hell.
reddit should be a place where anyone can pull up their soapbox and speak their mind, or have a discussion and maybe learn something new and even challenging or uncomfortable, but right now redditors are telling us they sometimes encounter users who use the system to harass them and that's a problem.
[–]aurisor 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 52 分 前 (0子コメント)
Right Alex -- but to stretch your metaphor, what you're proposing is allowing someone to go to the policeman nearby, point at the person on the soapbox, and suddenly they're never heard from again.
[–]pants_face 41 ポイント42 ポイント43 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
It sounds to me that you're pandering to the ~6% (13% are dissatisfied, half of that wouldn't recommend it) of users that don't like certain content or comments here. In fact, more people have an issue with heavy moderation and censorship (31% vs. 35%).
The internet has never been a "nice and friendly" place. Overall you still have a 90% satisfaction rate which is incredible for the amount of users. Look at youtube comments for comparison. Having a SJW CEO pushing an agenda is just going to drive those 90% away. I've heard Digg has improved quite a bit since they lost all of their users...
[–]remzem 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 37 分 前 (0子コメント)
If Speakers Corner had a system where people could get others banned for reporting their views as harassment how many of those you heard there do you think would of abused this system? If the gay had filed a complaint on the conservative religious guy for harassing him would you ban him? Burning in hell does seem rather more like harassment than a rational argument.
Your interpretation of the poll data seems rather off too. A small minority of redditors feel that way. Pretty much everyone was satisfied with the site based on your data.
[–]neohephaestus 58 ポイント59 ポイント60 ポイント 1 時間 前 (12子コメント)
So you're finally getting rid of ShitRedditSays?
[–]graffiti81 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前 (10子コメント)
I give it about a 0% chance. Reddit is run by a SRS sympathizer.
[–]Godspiral 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Would this be a good opportunity to bait someone into saying something that could hurt my feelings? Will you then wield your powerful ban hammer to my satisfaction against whoever I choose? Its obvious to me that my gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation and race is oppressed by everyone who thinks otherwise, and those fucking worthless assholes will say things that I find mean.
How can I better ensure that ALL OF THOSE HATEFUL PEOPLE can be pushed to removing themselves from the internet (if not the planet) by appealing to your mod powers?
Alternatively, if you feel that I may be improperly seeking post-modern tactics in order to bait people into getting banned to my satisfaction, what procedures exist to prevent me from abusing your powers?
[–]cjcrashoveride 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Wouldn't the easier solution have just been to make the report button actually, ya know, do something?
[–]relic2279 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I don't really want to beat a dead attack helicopter, but a sizeable portion of these types of attacks & problems could be, or would be directly (and indirectly) solved by better mod tools... If we could IP ban users from our subreddits who are harassing (a hashed IP so mods wouldn't know the actual IP address for privacy reasons), for example, it would cut down on the amount of toxicity those types of users were bringing to the sub.
Then there's the whole deterrent aspect; if people know they can't just create a sockpuppet to get around an IP ban, or had to hop on a VPN in order to circumvent it, they may think twice, or may not be as hostile in their commenting. Sure, it's not a perfect solution. I don't think a perfect solution exists. But it's a good solution. The benefits of such a feature far outweighs the negatives.
In the rare cases where someone accidentally bans an IP that was shared by a university or business (or in the case of wikipedia, a country), it could be and would be escalated to the admins who do what they normally do when that happens. Since it would be a rare occurrence, it shouldn't be much of a consideration to take into account.
[–]Kalium 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 58 分 前 (1子コメント)
Looking at the comments, and what's been upvoted, it becomes clear to me that there is a problem. Reflexive cynicism and distrust rule the day.
/u/kn0thing and /u/5days it seems that Reddit has lost the enthusiastic trust and support of its community. How do you plan to address this?
[–]elavers 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 54 分 前 (0子コメント)
This blog post has made me fear for my safety on Reddit. I no longer feel that Reddit is a safe platform to express my ideas because of it.
[–]Mcsquizzy 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前 (3子コメント)
What is with all of the reddit propaganda lately? Seems very unusual and out-of-the-blue for the random face-saving posts about how great Reddit is
[–]Maverick0325 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 2 時間 前 (2子コメント)
In recent years I've noticed more and more companies releasing statements like this. Typically stating that there is something they will not do, then immediately do that thing.
This change will have no immediately noticeable impact on more than 99.99% of our users. It is specifically designed to prevent attacks against people, not ideas. It is our challenge to balance free expression of ideas with privacy and safety as we seek to maintain and improve the quality and range of discourse on reddit.
How can we be certain that moderators won't use this new harassment policy as an excuse to censor ideas they disagree with?
[–]Furyhunter 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
reddit administration, not moderators, will handle harassment reports.
[–]dummystupid 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
There's a lot of admin blog posts lately.
Not sure how to feel about all the "announcements".
[–]Davethe3rd 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Welcome to Digg v5.0
[–]namer98 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
What if an entire sub harasses users?
[–]risingstars 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Have affairs, be a bigot, sue your employers over bullshiy, cover it up from reddit. :)
[–]i_lost_my_password 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
On the internet, as in real life, I value liberty over safety.
[–]AustNerevar 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 56 分 前 (0子コメント)
Protection from harassment...
Safe space...
Shadowbans...
You guys are just trying to run off most of the userbase, aren't you.
Don't turn Reddit into Tumblr. It isn't want the majority of users want.
[–]XPythagoras 93 ポイント94 ポイント95 ポイント 2 時間 前 (64子コメント)
Don't 'keep everyone safe'. This isn't Facebook, reddit is a free speech platform and I don't think that the omniscient mods like /u/kn0thing should be able to dictate to subreddits how they should handle their community. Censorship should be the subreddit's decision. If we feel that some sub's should be silenced then we are no better than they are.
[–]Br00ce 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Because of this, we are changing our practices to prohibit attacks and harassment of individuals through reddit with the goal of preventing them
What? The goal of harassers to prevent harassing or is it your goal to stop these harassers preemptively? Or is this just another vague rule you can twist to fit any situation like "brigading"?
[–]graffiti81 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
So basically you interviewed SRS.
[–]dudenamedben 28 ポイント29 ポイント30 ポイント 2 時間 前 (5子コメント)
Reddit has officially jumped the shark. What this is is a mea culpa admitting that their history of letting the community police itself hasn't worked (it has) and beginning a crackdown on expression/speech/communities the admins don't like.
It started with /r/jailbait... but I wasn't a ephebophile so I didn't speak up. Then they came for /r/thefappening, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't into fuzzy pictures of people I don't know. Then they came for /r/gamergate, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a gamer.
I'm speaking up now. This is a step in a VERY WRONG direction and will be the end of reddit as we know it if it's allowed to continue
Instead of promoting free expression of ideas, we are seeing our open policies stifling free expression
No, you're seeing expression you don't like and have decided to stifle that. If you're going to become a curated community of safe spaces and hugboxes, say that. If you're going to be a space for free expression, then you have to understand that some expression will offend your sensibilities. That's a GOOD THING. How else can one find out that they're wrong if not for challenging their own ideas?
I really hope that the reddit admins reconsider the path they're going down. Shadowbanning those who question Ellen Pao, banning communities that they don't like... digg fell for less than this. Reddit could very well be next.
[–]CttCJim 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
is it harassment if someone bans you from a sub you've never posted in? it feels like it is.
[–]Narfhole 27 ポイント28 ポイント29 ポイント 2 時間 前 (2子コメント)
One person's safety is another's closemindedness.
[–]MrRexels 83 ポイント84 ポイント85 ポイント 2 時間 前 (26子コメント)
Great, fortify the hugbox and echo chamber so no dissenting opinions can ''hurt'' others. Also, people being mean to you on the Internet =/= harassment, they are pixels on a monitor.
[–]thumbyyy 33 ポイント34 ポイント35 ポイント 1 時間 前 (6子コメント)
Exactly. The admins keep spouting off buzz-words: "harrassment" "bullying" "doxing" but have provided no clear definition of what that really means. Seems more like this is all just about setting policies in place to protect corporations who are tired of getting called out on their bullshit, and want to eliminate that problem and set up road blocks to make it much harder for us to do that.
In any case, none of this is is about protecting free speech and ensuring open dialogue. Come on.
[–]AdvocateForLucifer 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 42 分 前 (0子コメント)
Great, fortify the hugbox and echo chamber so no dissenting opinions can ''hurt'' others.
Let's instead fortify the echo chamber where we're assholes to everyone.
[–]sarahbotts 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前 (7子コメント)
Also, people being mean to you on the Internet =/= harassment, they are pixels on a monitor.
I can tell you haven't been harassed on reddit before. There is a huge difference between someone being mean to you and someone harassing you.
[–]ReverseSolipsist 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I suggest that people send an email about harassment every time a hate sub like /r/SRS or /r/Bad(whatever) links to your comment. I think it's very easy to argue that linking to something you said specifically so that a subreddit full of people can mock it "would make a reasonable person conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation."
See if anything is done about that.
[–]walkingtheriver 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
This harassment policy will not, definitely and totally and absolutely not, under any circumstances, be used to ban people for talking about Ellen Pao. /s
[–]RedSocks157 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 59 分 前 (0子コメント)
This is headed towards censorship. Guess what, if you don't like something that's not the other person's problem - it's yours. You don't like /r/fatpeoplehate or whatever other sub? Don't go there.
Promote ideas sounds a lot like "ideas we approve of", which is also frankly a bunch of homogenizing bullshit.
Bottom line, stop trying to control your users.
[–]MARsDoesNothing 29 ポイント30 ポイント31 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Now you can get banned if you say anything bad about a specific person.
I wonder if Ellen Pao had anything to do with this? I would imagine she's tired of everyone knowing the truth about her.
[–]DeadGamerWalking 30 ポイント31 ポイント32 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
/r/ShitRedditSays makes it unsafe for me to express my ideas. Will you ban that subreddit?
[–]starworks5 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前* (0子コメント)
What will your legal response be when your definition of harassment, would instead appear to be a form of arbitrary discrimination, as defined by the Unruh Act of California? By directly opposing to the legal definition of harassment, instead portraying it as a "right to not be offended", which has already been invalidated by the supreme court.
You are effectively discriminating against the equal opportunity to of a person to enjoy reddit, because you're arbitrarily discriminating against their completely legal legitimate personal views, most notably the views critical of the very misconduct of leadership itself which are often censored. I for example think that the ethics of using reddit users for social science experiments by SJW's including Max Goodman is disgusting.
As far as I can tell, I have no trust about your need harassment policy, because its derived from statistics without a methodology, and I wouldn't be surprised if the data was groped to meet the conclusion. The majority of the members of your social science team operate with methodological and ideological biases anyways, and study things like idea manipulation and censorship.
http://derp.instutute
Do you really not realize that the reddit community could ALSO sue for discrimination?
– Jessica ( /u/5days ), Ellen ( /u/ekjp ), Alexis ( /u/kn0thing ) & the rest of team reddit
https://oag.ca.gov/publications/CRhandbook/ch4
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-751.pdf
[–]velvetbunnyrabbit 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 14 分 前 (0子コメント)
Let me guess: Views from the LEFT will all be found reasonable, while any view from the RIGHT will be deemed harassment.
Just get it over with and admit that like every other haven of leftist bullshit you clearly want to remove the ability for anyone to have an opinion that doesn't match yours.
How "progressive" of you.
[–]J-Unleashed 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 14 分 前 (0子コメント)
Doubt this will be seen, but I have a screenshot of a mod of a sub saying they would kill someone and their entire family. At what point can we say they are a problem?
[–]chugz 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 分 前 (0子コメント)
Buddy Fletcher, husband of Reddit CEO Ellen Pao, is being described as being the operator of Ponzi scheme after his now bankrupt firm diverted money for their own use and, according to the Chapter 11 trustee, committed fraud against investors. Three Louisiana pension funds lost $144 million.
shadow bans for everyone.
[–]chugz 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 6 分 前 (0子コメント)
fuck off.
[–]pmckizzle 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 5 分 前 (0子コメント)
oh great, reddit is becoming tumblr. A hug box for people who can't handle having their feels hurt :'( and who like to play the victim. Fuck reddits new hard on for sjw pandering. Fuck the fucking shit out of that cunt pao and the sjw admins who have a hard on for /r/shitredditsays in the hopes they might get to sleep with a legbeard, since no normal woman will. Or who play the victim and sue for harassment (pao). Fuck the fat people who'd rather censor people, than admit they need to fucking lose weight. Fuck the whiteknights, fuck the rad fems, fuck the fat sows, fuck the professional victims.
[–]mobugs 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Instead of promoting free expression of ideas, we are seeing our open policies stifling free expression; people avoid participating for fear of their personal and family safety
Does this mean you're finally shutting SRS down?
[–]vexinom 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
There are SRS mods that have harassed people talking about committing suicide still on the site. What are you going to do about them?
[–]Darr_Syn 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 40 分 前 (1子コメント)
The continued use of the word "safe" in this blogpost seems. . . ominous.
See, I'm a mod of a number of BDSM subreddits and the term "safe" is one that's used quite a bit and is talked about all the time. But it's also argued about.
Let me put it this way.
What about my subreddits? Is discussing my kinks, hobbies, and passions going to be seen as "threatening" or " fear for their safety or the safety of those around them" by the very action of existing?
Many people have issues with alternative sexual practices and can see what I, an active sexual sadist, do as unsafe and even threatening.
So should I be worried about being protected against?
The issue that this brings up is what is considered "safe". In the BDSM world we tend to understand that there's no such thing as being 100% safe. It's a concept that is mythical, and fictional. Sitting there at your computer reading this there is a chance, no matter how small, that you could be hurt, harmed, or even killed.
That is true throughout the world. Both online and offline. The world is not safe. The internet is not safe.
At best you can make things safeR, but never safe.
But given your recent announcement of transparency I also have to ask, what is the process for being deemed "unsafe"? Are people going to be told they are being unsafe? Is there an appeal process? What are the punishments for being unsafe? Are there varying degrees of unsafeness?
This seems like an ideal that sounds good in political-speak and on paper but can, and should, be questioned quite a bit before being implemented.
[–]starworks5 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 25 分 前 (0子コメント)
I have been down this little rabbit hole.
it goes "safe from what" , "i dont have to talk about it".
[–]almightybob1 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Riveting. I await the next feel-good update and vague Newspeak title with bated breath.
[–]abs159 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
What if it's the interim CEO who's using their position to exploit and take advantage of other people?
[–]r314t 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Shouldn't there be an exception for public figures and politicians? Not that I think harassing politicians or public figures is okay, but I feel like with the way it is worded it could easily be abused to ban political satire.
I'm sure some of the things Jon Stewart or Stephen Colbert say, if they were posted on reddit, would make people like George Bush or certain Fox News anchors "conclude that reddit is not a safe platform to express their ideas or participate in the conversation."
[–]K10S 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I hope you all realize that this is what you're doing with this. I respect the position, but dont pretend that you're in favor freedom speech.
[–]NoMoreNicksLeft 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
So this means you'll be shutting down subredditdrama, or no?
[–]audobot[A] 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 2 時間 前 (10子コメント)
Research team speaking here. For those of you who want to check out what we learned from our survey of redditors, head over to /r/redditdata for What we learned from our March 2015 survey
π Rendered by PID 28233 on app-80 at 2015-05-14 18:56:52.999044+00:00 running 1bed5cc country code: JP.
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