148
149

Orban: "Non-democratic countries are more successful". Bear in mind that this person's party is still a member of the EPP (hungarianfreepress.com)

European Unionvsevolodovich が 投稿

全 198 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順q&a

[–]Delenda est euroangry_spaniard 103 ポイント104 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The rulers of non-democratic countries are more successful. Fixed!

When successful means staying in office more years.

[–]Malzair 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

And making way more cash than democratic leaders. The Gaddafi family had billions upon billions upon billions.

[–]FranceSpyMonkey3D 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Googled it up and found articles claiming he was the richest man in the world.

[–]Malzair 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He kinda was, sorta. Basically a lot of the oil in Libya was sold by state oil companies and for some reason state company means "Money goes to dictator" because...l'etat c'est moi? And if you do that for enough decades you get a lot of money. A lot. More than Bill Gates.

But a lot of that money was spread out over the whole Gaddafi Family, especially sons, who used the money to build telecommunication companies, your own private army, the usual stuff.

So how much of that was really in the hands of that one person? Who knows. But was it all together more than Bill Gates ever had? You bet your ass it was.

[–]United KingdomPoachTWC 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (19子コメント)

He's obviously forgotten that Western Europe and North America are the best developed places on the planet and are all... democratic.

[–]Malzair 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Nah, we're actually all fascist dictatorships led by rich jews who genocide arabs and genocide whites by making them have less children!

Does this even need a sarcasm tag? I sure hope not...

[–]United States of AmericaSoda 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not just fascist, homofascist.

[–]dickgirl9000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What was the point of this post?

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

TO OPEN OUR EYES

[–]Brtish/European CitizenLimitlessLTD 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

NOW I TRULY SEE!

[–]GhostOfDolorean 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (9子コメント)

He's obviously forgotten that Western Europe and North America are the best developed places on the planet and are all... democratic.

And this was not the case before they became... democratic?

[–]United KingdomPoachTWC 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Until the industrial revolution was the Arab world not a good deal more advanced than we were in terms of science and medicine?

Besides, by his logic, when we became democratic we'd surely falter and fail. Britain was a democratic country (albeit with a limited franchise) when the industrial revolution came, and Britain came to control the largest Empire in history, growing it constantly up until the Second World War. Expansion of the franchise in Britain and France did not translate into a weakening of their power, in fact their power on the world stage only increased.

[–]tempaccountonreddit 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Until the industrial revolution was the Arab world not a good deal more advanced than we were in terms of science and medicine?

Not really. The Arabs have been falling behind since the 13th century.

[–]The Netherlandspiwikiwi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Ottomans didn't.

[–]TsarDionysus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The Ottomans weren't Arab though.

[–]The Netherlandspiwikiwi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good point, I can't remember what my point was:P

[–]TsarDionysus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you were talking about the Islamic world, you'd definitely be right, even though the Ottomans weren't as caught up in technology as Europe is sometimes.

[–]snobby EuropeanBigBadButterCat 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wouldn't call industrial revolution Britain democratic by today's standards, the working conditions alone. You may say democracy is just a form of government and then I'll disagree and say that protection of weak members of society and of minorities is essential to democracy.

I also don't think the Arab world was as advanced as Europe by that time.

[–]United States of Americachjones994 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

thats liberal democracy.

[–]WalesG_Morgan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The great explosion in the west is contemporary with the rise of liberalism and democracy. The US obviously so. Britain largely saw its rise from obscurity after the middle classes put the Stuarts in their box.

[–]Bloodysneeze 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

In before "US isn't democratic".

[–]United States of AmericaRPG720 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

DAE le military industrial complex joos control Obama?

[–]GermanyTrackpoint 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (1子コメント)

With other words: I am a dictator and that is a good thing.

Great. So we begin another round of "how far does the dictator has to run the country into the ground before he gets murdered/exiled"?

[–]Orbánistan aka the Banana republic of the EUSnobbyEuropean 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So we begin another round of "how far does the dictator has to run the country into the ground before he gets murdered/exiled"?

Keeping the current situation of Hungary in mind, I'd say your grandson is the one who will sit in front of the TV with popcorn in his hands, watching the change of government.

[–]SwedenVonSnoe 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (12子コメント)

So he is longing back to Soviet oppression?

It is mindblowing that a person who lived through soviet occupation and a totalitarian oppressive state is so clueless.

This guy just keeps going more and more full retard. EPP Should kick them out.

[–]SpainNerlian 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That depends at which side of the repression he sat at. if its anything like Spain, many of the people who where powerful before democracy held (and holds) a fair share of power after the dictatorship and some still do nowadays.

And if they don't, their offspring isn't really having a bad time either.

The repression isn't that bad when you are being the opressor.

[–]Orbánistan aka the Banana republic of the EUSnobbyEuropean 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here. Some people who've foreseen the dissolution of the SU took the opportunity and changed sides. Orbán did just this, and he managed to one-up most if not all of his fellow opportunist politicians.

To this day, people talk about 89' like Orbán was the guy who risked his life and "sent the Russians home". He simply happened to know about the deal between the Hungarian prime-minister at the time and Gorbachov, then proceeded to act like some freedom-or-death kinda political-superhero.

Simicska, our very own oligarch, comes from the same bunch. According to him, he and Orbán planned to completely destroy the communist system and its left-overs (and not to create a new dictatorship). I'd take that with a grain of salt, but that kinda sums up what Fidesz was, and what it is right now.

[–]Hungarian living in the Netherlandsgerusz 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is mindblowing that a person who lived through soviet occupation and a totalitarian oppressive state is so clueless.

He didn't have the slightest problem with the system, his only issue was that he wasn't on top of it.

[–]EU/Hungarypolymute 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then he would have become a member of the communist party instead of leading the protest against the regime maybe?

There was nothing stopping him.

In hindsight we can easily dismiss the guts it took to take on a leading role in Imre Nagy's reburial and so on, but at the time they couldn't know whether the winds would turn and the Soviets would reverse Gorbachev's reforms and deploy tanks in Budapest again.

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In a debate in Parliament he said that "we didn't fight the dictatorship [under soviet-style socialism] but those who ran the dictatorship." He probably just wanted to point out that some of the people in opposition now were personally involved in running the dictatorship, but literally what he said was this, and that can be easily interpreted as his only problem with the dictatorship was that he was on the wrong side of it. This is probably one of the few honest statements he's made over the years.

[–]Wallachiadngrs 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ah so his problem is that he wasn't the one running it

[–]Hungarykaldor 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, he's just an extremely populist politician. Every time this idiot opens his mouth, you literally hear what the Fidesz communication team wants him to say. He doesn't really have independent thoughts in his speeches anymore.

He's not even talking to you guys when he says shit like this, he's talking to the voters. Think of these as real-life clickbait. When he's praising non-democratic countries or he's talking about death penalty, I guarantee that every online media will be covering it in less than 15 minutes. He's like the Big Brother: what he says is often so idiotic that you just can't escape it, it's literally everywhere. And it's working beautifully by the way, everyone knows what he has to say even here on /r/europe. Say what you will about him as a leader, but the guy knows how to play politics.

[–]Orbánistan aka the Banana republic of the EUSnobbyEuropean 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

EPP Should kick them out.

I'd prefer a change of government and EU integration, which never really happened in Hungary.

[–]snobby EuropeanBigBadButterCat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hungary was considered a good example of successful EU integration until a few years ago, actually.

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a baby-democracy, they have no experience at all in it. It's been behaving nicely up until 2006, when people realized that politicians lie in their campaign. Hell broke lose, and came Orbán who said he never ever lied to the public (he actually said that), and the democratically illiterate Hungarian people believed him and gave him basically unlimited power to do whatever he wants. Well now, after he brought more corruption, bad governance and megalomania even than the government before him, the process of disillusionment continues. It'll take decades until the Hungarian public can learn from the mistakes and handle democracy.

[–]Orbánistan aka the Banana republic of the EUSnobbyEuropean -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know about that. I guess I have high expectations regarding EU integration. Imo. bringing society closer to the EU, raising awareness about what it stands for and how it's beneficial is crucial in integration. I haven't experienced any of these things. Quite the contrary. You'd be surprised by how many people live in an another reality and are completely sure we pay more to the EU than we get back. It's also easy to find nutjobs who think the EU "doesn't give us enough" to keep Hungary in shape, when in fact, MSZP and Fidesz both took/takes any chance they get to get a cut (for personal use) of those sweet EU monies we get. EU monies that are seemingly not checked on by the EU, as millions can be spent on un-used "educational videos" and the like without repercussions, just to mention a single project Europeans' money got spent on by Hungary. If you take a look at our politics, it's also clear that a large portion, if not the majority of our society is as disconnected from Europe as an EU member can be. Altough the voting system was tweaked and the left-wing opposition was crushed, the popularity of the right-wing is frightening. They stand for everything but European values.

What I'm trying to say is, while Hungary's integration might have been a success from an economist's PoW (was it, though?), it's not successful at all regarding our society. Indifference to our politics from the EU is also a huge disappointment. The UK gets a cool myth-debunking campaign, and we're stuck with a "lol dude you dumb, you'll have to quit if you go on, lol jk." kinda response every 6 months to the pretty much constant EU-bashing by our government. While you guys were arguing about Charlie Hebdo and freedom of speech, I was laughing (in misery and) in tears (partly due to C.H) reading about taxes Fidesz struck certain TV channels with. His own media empire got out scot-free (TV2, m1, m2, Duna) and RTL, which held views opposing to Fidesz, faced existential issues. Pretty much no one gave a shit about it in the EU for a long time, until someone bothered to check on our dictator and managed to force him into creating an almost fair taxation for TV companies. I feel like we're struck by a fucktard as our glorious leader, and no one gives a shit about us or him until his actions threaten EU unity (of other members), and even then he can back out without repercussions and go on fucking with us. That's not what I'd expect from the EU regarding dealing with an integrated member state.

On a side note: I dig your flair. :)

[–]Durumbuzafeju 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wells he usually fancies himself as the Man who single handidly drive out the soviets from Hungary.

[–]Wallachiadngrs 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (68子コメント)

yeah people living in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland, Netherlands, Canada, Ireland must be jealous of China, North Korea, Qatar, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Vietnam, Syria, Egypt, Congo, Sudan, Russia.

[–]European Unionzenicaone 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (51子コメント)

Qatar, Iran, Saudi Arabia

well to be fair : being male and muslim citizen in Qatar and Saudi Arabia is something to be envious about (keeping it real)

with the rest of the list I totally agree

[–]Brtish/European CitizenLimitlessLTD 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (1子コメント)

well to be fair : being male and muslim citizen in Qatar and Saudi Arabia is something to be envious about (keeping it real)

I don't know about that, some Muslim Qatari citizens end up in slavery anyway. I think the only guarantee is being part of the royal family. But at this point that is like half the country.

[–]European Unionzenicaone -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

some Muslim Qatari citizens end up in slavery anyway

well some citizens of USA end up in prison slavery also but percentage wise - It is perfectly nice to be male muslim citizen of Qatar

(exceptions do not make the rule)

[–]Swedenxetal1 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That depends on whether you value wealth or personal freedom more.

[–]No borders, no nations, fuck deportationsGunvorsejl 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not if you oppose the government or are gay or something. If you keep your head down and fit their narrow definition of what a Muslim man is, then maybe. Still I wouldn't be envious, I like being able to work, study and party with women.

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (19子コメント)

Let's keep it real: being a king in any absolute monarchy is pretty fucking awesome compared to what a Swedish citizenship can offer.

[–]Estoniakalleluuja 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Why would I be envious of country where my mother or my daughter(or in fact any woman) has little opportunities.

[–]sob3k 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because you werent raised in Europe and you just dont respect women and their independence... ;)

[–]bricardo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unless you're gay, political, or want to demand more from your country.

[–]Belgiumtrop_commercial 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (15子コメント)

China is pretty successful though.

[–]FranceNorrisOBE 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (6子コメント)

China has more males than females and their constant growing middle class will definitely lead up to a democratic reform one way or another.

They're a successful Capitalist economy, but also a failing Socialist government.

[–]FinlandtehzeroFIN 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is the male-female ratio in France 50-50? And if I remember right the difference is "just" few million, which isn't that huge when we are talking about China, anyways there was an article about more chinese men marrying russian women.

[–]Black RomaniaNuruYetu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

will definitely lead up to a democratic reform one way or another

If you're interested, there's a TED talk from Eric X. Li that challenges your claim.

EDIT: another TEDtalk that tries to explain China's rise

[–]FranceNorrisOBE 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've seen that talk and the rebuttal to that talk was better

The big flaw to Mr. Li's idea is China's lack of transparency and a rising brain drain. As more of the middle class demands answers when the housing bubble comes and more Chinese citizens are leaving China in droves, there WILL be a stability crisis within the government.

The next change in a mainland Chinese government will be democracy, and while that will decades, it will still happen.

[–]Black RomaniaNuruYetu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hadn't read that rebuttal, thanks for sharing.

I however think some of Li's points still stand. TI may be skewed by transparency when comparing China to democracies, but the rising trend of China over time in the TI is unlikely explained solely by increased opacity, certainly when you see the staggering amount of interpersonal trust in China as per the World Value Study which contrasts heavily with the other authoritarian system used as example, Soviet Russia and its citizens fear of being denounced. It indicates that the mentioned "coercion" is at least of a very different nature and less perceptible, and that perhaps the CCP did in some way change with less corruption as a result. Secondly, and I link that to the second talk I've shared in the comment above: China is very different from the concept of a nation-state. Thus, even if we predict the rise of a demand for popular voice, that demand can be formulated and met very differently, resulting in probably something different from what we have for "democracies". The extensive use of surveys that Li mentioned is a very good example and can be seen as an attempt to meet such demand.

[–]IrelandOrionmcdonald 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It is but its still pretty low on a lot of developmental indexes, you got to keep in mind that they were coming from such a low base in the late 80's after the cultural revolution. if anything china based on it's size was huge underperformer for many years, we still don't know what will happen to them when they reach middle-income status and they've yet to create any major brands or products, mostly relying on manufacture.

[–]Belgiumtrop_commercial -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know if you could sell the Mao era short like that. Statistics are fuzzy, but a lot of industrialisation happened during that time.

Anyhow, it is true that China is still low on a lot of developmental indexes. But if we take a look at say India, it seems to me that China has very much brought a sixth of the world population forward, for which I respect them, despite all their flaws.

[–]IrelandOrionmcdonald 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

True totally true, but the Mao era was brutal for its economy and infrastructure, mass famine was a regular feature even before the cultural revolution, and it wasn't just that it was inefficent, but it also saw an entire generation of teachers and administrators wiped out which was extremely hard to recover from. I think that it has as well, but we have to compare China to its cultural cousins in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore (and perhaps unfairly) ask what could have been without years of shitty communist rule.

[–]Belgiumtrop_commercial -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hong Kong and Singapore are city states, financial hubs of global capitalism. Every country has its very own circumstances and pre-existing conditions and these could not be more different in this case.

Famine was a regular feature but it was solved under Mao. Food production went up greatly. Industrialisation and urbanisation happened in an extreme pace. (I can give you sources if you want). Of course the expected problems of state socialism were present, but as it did in the Soviet Union, it achieved industrialization on a never before seen scale. And it is on this groundwork that Deng Xiaoping achieved succesful market reforms.

What could have been without shitty communist rule? Ideally a scenario like Japan? Or is a scenario like India's more likely, where more people have been dying from hunger or hunger related deaths every ten years than people died in the Great Leap Forward?

[–]Wallachiadngrs 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

judging by what? if we look at HDI then it ranks 91/187 which isn't great http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

[–]SloveniaU5K0 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unless you have decadent western lungs.

[–]GermanyAunvilgod 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Life is still shit for a LOT of people there. You measure a nations wealth at its lowest humans.

[–]Estoniakalleluuja -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who knows for how long they are going to be able to keep authoritarian regime though. It's still to be seen.

[–]United Kingdomieya404 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hypothetically, I can see that a benevolent dictatorship might be better (as it can afford to take decisions which benefit in the long-term, at the cost of short-term popularity).

The trouble is in arranging for the dictator to be benevolent, which I think has generally eluded the real world so far...

[–]SpainNerlian 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think every dictator ever has always thought they've been the best thing to happen to their country since sliced bread.

[–]sob3k 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hypothetically, I can see that a benevolent dictatorship might be better

This was what ancient Greeks thought. Democracy for good days, but when the misery hits, we got the dictator!

[–]RomaniaCrocoduck1 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wtf Hungary why tolerate this buffon ?

[–]Italyporcazozza 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

tfw

[–]Nationality is a coincidence - EU master racemelitonz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

flair checks out

[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Yes, North Korea and Belarus are doing so well.

[–]FinlandtehzeroFIN 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

How about Singapore? They have (or have had) pretty authotarian government with one party holding power for ages.

[–]Nationality is a coincidence - EU master racemelitonz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've always been amazed by Singapore.

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know much about Singapore. I always thought that they were a democracy that just happened to continuously vote the same party in all the time (Mexico and South Africa used to be democratic one party states too).

Am I right with this? Can someone with more knowledge about Singapore chime in?

[–]Czech RepublicOv3rpowered 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really. They are basically a dictatorship, but when their dictator died recently, it was a national tragedy. He ruled sternly bud fairly and managed to make Singapore's economy explode. He managed lot of things the West couldn't because of its slow and cumbersome democratic process. People like results, he accomplished them.

Brunei is somewhat similar, absolute monarchy and very successful with reasonable freedom for its citizens. Also maybe Salazar's Portugal etc.

[–]Belgiumtrop_commercial 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Belarus is doing quite well isn't it? Kazakhstan also.

North Korea not so much no...

[–]Fryslân/BilkertTheActualAWdeV -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Belarus is doing quite well isn't it?

Hmm, I dunno. Is it? Don't know about Kazakhstan either but now I do wonder.

[–]Romaniaanarchisto 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Bringing examples is pointless because you can find examples that are the other way around.

For instance, Belarus is doing a lot better than a democracy like India.

[–]Jayrate 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

India is an amazingly corrupt democracy with a far different history than Belarus. Probably the best comparison we have would be East vs West Germany. It's pretty clear which side was more successful.

[–]Romaniaanarchisto 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

West Germany was more successful because of the economic system, not because of politics.

If we look at countries around the world, it's pretty obvious that economic success has absolutely nothing to do with the political system, but rather with the economic system and that can be implemented well in a dictatorship (China is a good example) or in democracy (as in West Germany).

[–]TurkeyBhdrbyr 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

For instance, Belarus is doing a lot better than a democracy like India.

Wut? India is a regional power, a nuclear state, third largest standing army in the world and a major economy which is one of the fastest growing economies. Belarus? A small landlocked eastern european country that has little to no relevancy?

[–]Romaniaanarchisto 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Do you think that the 270 million Indians who live on under $1.25 per day care that India is a nuclear state?

[–]TurkeyBhdrbyr 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

India is the second most populous country in the world, we are talking about over 1.2 billion people. Poverty is not a result of democracy.

[–]BulgariaOmortag 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, but the size of their army and money left over for nuclear weapons is a result of their size.

[–]Chinafoop_plinger 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

India IS lifting millions of people out of poverty every year.

[–]Gotebe -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Big does not equal good,wtf?!

And do you honestly believe that Belarus isn't doing better on the democracy level?

[–]Wallachiadngrs 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

go compare the best of each to see the potential of each system

ie Norway and North Korea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So you bring up such an established democracy as India for your argument. I can even accept an argument that established democracies are not succesful because they are democracies but they are democracies because they have been successful. That's a valid argument, but the extreme instability of dictatorships is hardly debatable. You're defending an undefendable case.

[–]Romaniaanarchisto -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not defending any case. I just said that using examples is not a valid argument because there are counter-examples.

[–]Polandmaorycy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't actually know much about Belarus, do you?

[–]European Federationjtalin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's just saying what the rest of EPP are thinking.

[–]londonghost 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, constitutional apply monarchy is certainly better than democracy. Freedom is fundamentally incompatible with democracy, but in monarchy it's possible as long as the king supports it.

[–]Hungary/United States of Americajravihun 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This guy seriously needs to shut up.

[–]England, United Kingdompurpleslug 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fidesz is retarded. Viktor Orban was the head of Liberal International as well. So hypocritical.

[–]anarchism4thewin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe his views changed over time.

[–]England, United Kingdompurpleslug -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

...lol, no. It's opportunistic populism

[–]GermanyBrazul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

north korea-best korea

[–]Republic of MacedoniaXY100 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bear in mind that this person's party is still a member of the EPP

LOL, EPP supported our corrupt and also non-democratic Prime minister and Government. What a joke for them.

[–]Polandhockiklocki 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe we should start thinking less about being successful and more about majority of people living better lives.

[–]Hungaryschaas 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is actually more about liberal democracy than democracy. Some Hungarian conservative intellectuals (i.e. Körösényi) are toying with resurrecting Max Webers idea of leadership democracy as opposed to liberal democracy, as it could be more useful for countries like us that do not have a fully Western culture, meaning a strong, independent thinking middle class bourgeois people.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/weber/#ChaLeaDem

[–]LondonNeasden93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (18子コメント)

And a lot of people suffer or are killed under non-democratic countries. Look at the history of Europe.

[–]Orbánistan aka the Banana republic of the EUSnobbyEuropean 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you really think he gives a shit about that? He has no morals whatsoever.

[–]EU/Hungarypolymute 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

yet for Mandiner.hu–a conservative news site–this aspect proved to be the most striking part of the speech.

Minor detail, but I wouldn't quite call Mandiner conservative - they are a weird social-liberallish-but-still-sometimes-nationalist mashup site and used to be the loyal opposition, though not so loyal in the last few years IMO.

[–]kradem 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

The most conservative party in Croatia is one with the same silly name you used here: Croatian Social Liberal Party.

P.S. conservative liberal center is 99% of Croatia's politics lately

[–]EU/Hungarypolymute 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, there's a tendency for such names. Check out the Liberal Democratic Party in Japan for example.

Or, for that matter Fidesz's name is originally a portmanteau of Fiatal Demokraták Szövetsége, meaning the Alliance of Young Democrats. How's that for irony, eh?

[–]kradem -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, there's a tendency for such names. Check out the Liberal Democratic Party in Japan for example.

Liberal is compatible with democratic, but "social liberal" is oxymoron.

Or, for that matter Fidesz's name is originally a portmanteau of Fiatal Demokraták Szövetsége, meaning the Alliance of Young Democrats. How's that for irony, eh?

That's a pragmatic populism: "We used to try as much we could, but we just found out that problem isn't in ourselves - it's in the democracy itself!" :-))

[–]Croatiajankisa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm pretty sure HSLS is not the most conservative party in Croatia.

[–]kradem -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm pretty sure HSLS is not the most conservative party in Croatia.

I'm sure it is and I'm sure our differences aren't there because we differentiate in knowledge about HSLS, so it's expected that you present what conservative means for you in a young transition democracy like Croatia.is.

[–]Croatiajankisa 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Ooooooor you are just making shit up as usual only with no people to call you out on it.

[–]kradem -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Please leave your ad hominem shit where it's belong, to bloody r/croatia.

Put here some proofs for your complains that HSLS isn't the most conservative political option in Republic of Croatia (cause you should fucking prove it isn't - it's not on me to prove it is).

But you can't, you're fucking going to accuse me I'm a bloody Dnevno reader or bring another such a bloody idiotic ad hominem "proof" I'm wrong, you'll get some circlejerk upvotes from your fellow retards from r/croatia and sleep peacefully...

Go to hell moron!

[–]Croatiajankisa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm guessing you tried all of the other retard magnet parties but you weren't satisfied with the level of conservatism, like HSP, HČSP, HSP-AS, HRAST, HDSB etc.

It's not at hominem to point out that you are lying here, hopefully soon people realize how much of a nutjob you are and chase you out of this sub because having something like reddit to obsess about is very worrying for a unstable person such as you.

[–]kradem -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm guessing you tried all of the other retard magnet parties but you weren't satisfied with the level of conservatism, like HSP, HČSP, HSP-AS, HRAST, HDSB etc.

You're an idiot.

Bloody idiot.

Bloody fucking idiot.

In a country that is a legal descendant of a communist state, in a country with base political struggle of get rid of heritage its nation members deeds in forming Nazi state during WWII, in a country that entered EU some 10-15 years before the countries in the neighbourhood that supposed to join together with Croatia, you are presenting... No, sorry, you're listing fucking all right and right populist parties as fucking conservative options?

For God sake, are you aware how's retarded that? Are you aware how bloody gayregionalistic is your fucking try to identify right wing with conservatism in the Republic of Croatia?

Dude, there are two options: you're mocking me (and just used last comment to improve your r/croatia abilities to attack ad hominem way) or you're fucking thinking conservative options are placed on right populist side.

If latter is the answer then I have wish to continue debate with you. Not because I have some sorrow for you, but because some of you ugly motherfucking retards from r/croatia finally showed some will to debate about something.

So, to open a debate with you I'll ask you a simple question using some information that's still fresh in memory: if those parties are conservative, who brought Croatia to be the 5th country in EU on legislative matter for LGBTQ community acceptance?

[–]Croatiajankisa 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Haha, if you really think I'm gonna spend my time arguing with a troubled person about the definition of conservatism you are even more insane than I thought.

[–]kradem 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Haha, if you really think I'm gonna spend my time arguing with a troubled person

What the heck "troubled" has to do with the fact you provide notoriously dumb "proof" I'm wrong stating HSLS is the most conservative political option in the Republic of Croatia?

And what the troubled adjective means?

about the definition of conservatism you are even more insane than I thought.

It's not about definition you bloody retard, it's about running the fuckin' country's politics you pity worthy ignorant!

[–]European Unionvsevolodovich[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is conservative precisely in the way Fidesz is. A weird nationalist, populist mixture, socially on the right, economically a chaos, supporting a flat tax but meanwhile deploying left-wing populist elements that Occupy folks would applaud enthusiastically (anti-bank measuges eg). Frankly, it makes no sense from a Western point of view, maybe some national socialism kind of stuff. Similarly, the opposition "left" would be considered market fundamentalists in western Europe.

[–]Ginkgopsida 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm keeping an eye on you hungary....

[–]FranceNorrisOBE 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, vraiment?

Compare North Korea to let's say, Sweden then we'll talk.

And no, do not mention China. China is bigger than the rest of the EU, so any comparison between China and an ant farm is pretty much void, Monsieur Orban.

[–]vivacitas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Let's jump forward a bit in the historic cycle that's being repeated in Europe... What happens when a NATO country attacks its NATO neighbors (possibly with the help of an outside nuclear power it's ideologically aligned with) ?

[–]Finlandspin0 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

historic cycle that's being repeated

/r/badhistory

[–]vivacitas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I only do good analytics, sorry.

[–]United KingdomPoachTWC 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are we expecting a nuclear war in Europe in the near future or something?

[–]Nationality is a coincidence - EU master racemelitonz -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish there was a "I want the EU to delegate politicians to the Parliament" option on the ballot.

As a Hungarian, lurking in /r/Europe basically always comes with a little walk of shame, too bad there isn't a filter Orbán button on the sidebar.

(Not that the opposition is better..)