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[META] Let's get this subreddit to a better place. (self.WildStar)

Lawlta[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

Hello /r/Wildstar!

First let me start off by saying that I apologize for being semi-present over the last few months. I have just finished my senior year of college, and during this time, this subreddit's moderation has slipped out of where I would like it to be.

For a quick breakdown, over the past couple of weeks, I had talked with the other mods about picking up 3 additional moderators. They agreed (in some cases did not disagree) that this would be a good choice. This is something I planned on doing this week. Since then, two of the moderators have left (one gave his reason, the other just disappeared).

This was an annoyance, but I figured as long as I had at least one moderator to bounce opinions off of, it would not be hard to pick up users. Over the past 48 hours, I'm not secure with that idea. Because of this, /u/girlwithruinedteeth will be removed as a moderator as of this post. People have been getting banned left and right, articles have been written about removing discussion, and overall put this community in a negative light. While originally her intentions were good, the execution only showed that there were many underlying problems.

With that out of the way, I am going to be asking the community for help. I want to pick up 5 more moderators to help take care of this place. I will be creating a thread where people can post if they want to be a moderator, via answering some questions. I'm going to make this process incredibly transparent, so all considerations will be posted publicly on the thread. If you see someone post who you would or would not like to be a moderator, comment on their post. There is more information here, where you can request to join the team.

I want to get this subreddit into a better place, and now that I finally have some time, I'm going to do what I can. Sorry about any problems/inconveniences my absence has caused. I'll need your help doing this, so let's get to work.

In the comments on this thread, say what you want done with the subreddit. This means what you want changed (added/removed from ruleset), events you would want, or just anything in general you think would make this a better place.

Edit:

Here is the NCSoft Quarterly Reports thread, had to go find it.

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トップ新着論争中古い順q&a

[–]KingsfanMDJ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a newcomer to the sub and someone who just recently started playing again I'd have to say this sub seems pretty decent to me.

[–]ipokemonkeysMiss Stabbie - Do Not Panic - Entity 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hey there - I had actually applied to be a moderator a week ago and was in the motion to become one today, haha.

Anyways, I'm still down to be a moderator on this forum. I've been around since beta and know / respect a lot of people from this community.

[–]Lawlta[S,M] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reply in this thread, and we'll go from there. Several moderators had been picked up without consulting the other moderators, and that has only lead to problems.

[–]ipokemonkeysMiss Stabbie - Do Not Panic - Entity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Totally understandable. I completely get that train of thought. I posted in the other thread and answered some questions. :)

[–]ZeeFighter 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well done. Rest assured that this was the best possible outcome, removing those two will go a long way in healing the reputation of this community. There's an overwhelming sentiment in this forum that disagreement equals trolling, and the previous mods encouraged this behavior through their actions..

There will always be a level of immaturity that comes with being a video game forum, that's just the nature of the beast and anyone who's a part of the community should know that coming in. But we can do better, and this is the first step towards moving in the right direction.

[–]starvinmartin 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please pick a better mod team. I've lost count over how many times, since launch, that discussion threads were deleted, comment chains removed or derailed, and awful posts approved for the sole fact that they were positive, all the while trying to blame the automod for deleting a lot of discussion.

Congrats on finishing college!

[–]RogueA 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I know you've removed all of Fran's "Mod Posts" from the last 24 hours (for good reason), but is there any chance we could have the Q1 Financials post back? There was valuable discussion in there about the future of the game.

Edit: It appears that Fran removed her own posts, thanks for linking to it.

[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Shit, I didn't even notice that was gone. Why was that deleted?

[–]Siggymiggy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So I expect the "shitgaem" "dedgaem" "onlyfaggotsplayWS" 1-2 word posts keep getting removed?

[–]Lawlta[S,M] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those break the third rule on the side bar, so yup!

[–]LeylinTGLeylin San 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Can you start by looking into all the suspect down voting that happens? Everyday I see innocent threads from new players asking simple things that get down voted to oblivion. Yesterday someone was asking for help with SSM and today someone asked about classes in demand for raid. Both threads got down voted to oblivion. Why?

[–]Lawlta[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

We've actually messaged the admins about this before, and we were told there wasn't anything suspect going on.

I'll check in with them again to see if that is still the case, or if there is something they could do.

One thing I'm considering doing (after grabbing new moderators) is implementing the no downvote system. I know it can be bypassed, but you have to go out of your way to do it. If something like that were to be implemented, then it would be on a trial basis just to see if it worked, and go from there. It would also be something the community would be polled on if they were in favor of.

[–][deleted] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't consider "download an iOS/Android app" going out of one's way, but what can you do.

[–]TiminielI craft, therefore I am. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pardon my intrusion, but without the downvotes to differentiate important/constructive/interesting content and the opposite, how exactly does this work? Is everything simply allowed at all times?

Please tell me this is not so!

[–]Lawlta[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh that would not be the case at all. Basically what can happen is a couple scenarios:

  • Someone comes through and downvotes all submissions just to be a jerk.

  • Someone makes a post, and then downvotes all the other submissions to get their content more visibility.

Usually people don't post things that are off topic. It usually ranges from differing opinions (which people downvote, and that's not the point) to straight out trolls (which those comments should be reported and removed).

By doing this, you allow the system to work as originally intened (instead of "I don't like that opinion, downvote"). With new people coming in and asking questions, they get downvoted pretty hard. I don't know why, their questions and concerns are pretty legitimate. Removing this option could possibly make the place more welcoming.

Again, if/when something like this were implemented, it would be a trial basis first. It's not something that would just be the law of the land.

[–]Jeucee -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please. No care bear reddit.

[–]AaeraFormer Arbiter of /r/WildStar 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately, mods have virtually no capacity to know who is downvoting. The only thing that can be done is contacting admins, but they don't do anything unless it's a huge issue. Sometimes people downvote an entire sub new page because they don't like the sub or game. Sometimes they downvote everything but their own new post in hopes that it rises in the ranks.

Ah, Lawlta beat me to the reply.

[–][deleted] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I do hope you don't plan on scapegoating Fran as the sole problem with this sub. There's still a multitude of trolls begging for F2P and people bashing the game about, and her entire post was glossed over just for the sake of misconstruing the title.

Here's hoping you do as good a job as you've set out to, this sub is a disaster.

[–]Lawlta[S,M] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's always been my intent when I came on as a moderator to keep those posts out. I have always thought that this place should have constructive discussion, about both the positive and negative aspects.

With a bigger team that the community helps pick, I hope to get there.

[–]frezzzer -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Being a mod is allowing others to voice their thoughts but not censoring every last word like russia. World is about Ying and Yang.

[–]TiminielI craft, therefore I am. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not being a mod. There is much more to being a mod than that.

A mod strives to make discussion be progressive and nudges the participants to be constructive. A mod, in fact, needs to disallow others to voice their opinions when clearly that "opinion" is only stated to inflame the community and rile people up. In addition, a mod needs to ensure that information is easy to reach for those who want it, and that newer, lesser informed players aren't deceived by uninformed or ill-intentioned people.

[–]frezzzer 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Large issue with this subreddit is all the other mods were players in game that people hated. They didn't do anything for the community but put on a show like they were something. Franbunny to bazleel were good examples of this. You need people they can respect and that actually knows wildstar. Not people who are talking about panties and useless PVP town halls they had NO IDEA what they were doing. This reddit needs people who actually know wildstar. Not some people who have E EGOS over it.

[–]quicktails 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As respectfully as I can, I have to agree. Fran and Baz had personalities that had chunks of people in the game really riled up, regardless of what you thought of them, putting up controversial figures as your moderators isn't the best idea. Even worse, they had some strong opinions about the game, and didn't hesitate in favoring discussion that aligned with those opinions.

This sub shouldn't be about what one mod or one user likes seeing. It should be a place where everyone sees relevant information about the game and constructive discussion.

[–]YouLikeFishstickz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

What's the path forward for getting this sub into a decent place?

How about the plan for ensuring another Franbunny/GirlTeeth fiasco doesn't occur again?

So far I see that you are recruiting new people from the sub to be mods, which is exactly what the old mods were...why would the new mods be any different?

[–]Lawlta[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

All fair questions.

What's the path forward for getting this sub into a decent place?

Getting a moderation team that the community plays a role in picking. That's a start. Part of this thread is also to see what people want, and I'll aim for more feedback threads as well to see what people want out of the subreddit. I don't have a whole plan laid out, trying to do what I can at the moment.

How about the plan for ensuring another Franbunny/GirlTeeth fiasco doesn't occur again?

That moderator was added on without getting input from the mod team, iirc. By having the community see who wants to be mod, allows some of the reddit detectives to come out of the woodwork to show (usually bad) examples of why they should or should not be made moderators.

So far I see that you are recruiting new people from the sub to be mods, which is exactly what the old mods were...why would the new mods be any different?

There wasn't community interaction that way before. When I was added on, I was asked to join, and then I introduced myself after being made a moderator. The last time we tried picking up mods, we kept things private. I figured making things transparent and public opens the floor a little more. Already in the thread, I'm seeing people responding to potential moderators.

Basically I'm just trying to do what I can, with what I see as the road to the best potential outcome. If the community is involved in the selection process, then there is a better chance to get a moderator who will be able to help deliver what the community wants.

[–]AaeraFormer Arbiter of /r/WildStar 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That moderator was added on without getting input from the mod team, iirc.

Thought I'd just chime in here to give some deets.
Franbunny was a moderator candidate for a while before she was selected from the small pool, and there was internal discussion in the secret subreddit, modmail, and Steam between myself, Bazeleel, and Veregx. I added her after a successful three-way Skype interview. We didn't really attempt to reach out to you, Lawlta, since we thought you were pretty done with WildStar. I apologize if that wasn't the case.

As for her actions: I left the team after deciding I wasn't coming back to the game, and shortly afterward Bazeleel ended up leaving, which left Franbunny in a burdening position of being the only moderator that was visibly active and playing. She tried to take the reins and maintain control, and had only good intention, but some language in certain posts seems to have been rushed or misconstrued, with led to the rising spiral of discontent among some users, and from there we know what went down. Fran was/is invested in the game and community, and wanted to do good work for it, this I know.

Edit: Just a reminder to some other people; rebut or criticize thoughts and stances, not the bearer of them. :)

[–]Lawlta[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We didn't really attempt to reach out to you, Lawlta, since we thought you were pretty done with WildStar. I apologize if that wasn't the case.

At the point discussed, I was basically focusing on controlling fires. I wished /u/Veregx luck before he left (before fran was added); handled modqueue and submitter requests; and then had to handle a bit of trouble that Bazeleel made that made quite a few people angry.

I may have not been active in game, but I made sure to be helping the subreddit behind the scenes (something I mentioned I would be doing while dealing with school). Had this been handled through modmail, where I would have seen it, my input would have been included.

Fran was/is invested in the game and community, and wanted to do good work for it, this I know.

I do not doubt this whatsoever. While her intent was good, the execution was not. Even when Bazeleel butted heads with several subscribers, I never had to go through and unban users, or approve criticisms that were removed. Articles weren't written on multiple sites about the happenings. While things blew up, I believe they blew up for a reason, and the reputation was damaged beyond repair.

I was not happy that I had to remove her, but I believed it to be the best decision to get back on track. I wanted to make sure the people here understood that moderators volunteer to make this a better place for them, not to have an edge in discussion.

[–]Just_A_Guy_Eh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Heya, I'd also suggest doing different mod levels as well if everyone were up to it. Start off with something light weight, only letting newer mods respond to mod mail, then working up to flair, then removing posts, and banning users near top, something like that. I mean, it'd be a longer process to get a full mod team going, but it'd be safer and probably less stressful on everyone

[–]Lawlta[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, at the moment I'm playing it by ear, but this is definitely a good suggestion. I'll look into different settings, and propose them sometime next week.

[–]Vagabond_Sam 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is a great start, particularly with the Steam DB info floating around which may lead to a bit of an increase in traffic around here.

Hopefully good things for Wildstar and the sub ahead.

[–]Razhork 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Too bad I know I wouldn't be able to keep it professional, but I'm looking forward to hopefully some positive changes.

[–]Lawlta[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you have any ideas, feel free to throw them out there. Every user can potentially make this place better!

[–]Typhron -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Whether or not, I've got a couple ideas that I stole from other subreddits came up with. Would you like to hear them?

[–]Lawlta[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

By all means, share what you think would better this place.

[–]Typhron [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

  • Weekly discussion threads may be redundant, but also do instill a sense of..well, discussion for those interested. These being catch all things (Talents, weapons, raids, etc) that are there for people to praise AND say what's wrong/give critique. Doubly so if devs are listening to this idle venting from those that are passionate about it without there being any whinging. And again, these cycle out/last a few days to a week before the next topic comes up

  • Weekly or biweekly roundup threads (for the sake of it) that's updated/rewards those that post good things, with a comment section sorted by "newest" comments". This is another way drum up discussion and regulated hype for whatever the playerbase does. It also makes community made event posts and guild kills easy to keep track of. The offset is that these aren't treated like a megathread and are there to replace said threads made by users like the above suggestion.

  • The subreddit could use a theme update, to that end, that clarifies/flairs what kind of post is what. The obvious staples for such would be 'News, Discussion, Drama, and Fluff' like some other game reddits, while Wildstar specific may want to add 'Boss downs' and 'Event/Holiday' in addition to such. Nevermind that some colors' values are so far away from each other it causes a bit of eyestrain. That lack of finding info at a glance makes browsing the subreddit a bit unwieldy.

  • Above all, encourage people to post, even reposting art from tumblr. There's a WHOLE bunch of people needing exposure out there and a whole bunch of nothing going on here. Get people talking and, again, people will come to listen, and possibly stay to contribute.

[–]Lawlta[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

These are all awesome points. I definitely think the ease of sorting information is important, and could be worked on quite a bit.

As for the design, I'm in talks with Carbine about what we did with no-tec. No-tec was a Carbine employee who created the current theme. He was a moderator that only had access to mess with the CSS for design reasons (so he did not have the power to mess with anything community related). Once the new moderators are selected, I'm going to continue talks about getting a Carbine designer to come in and possibly revamp, or at the very least, make it easier to navigate.

Overall, it's going to take time to implement things like this. Right now I'm handling this solo, so I'm trying to make sure I go through and address all concerns. However, these are really good ideas, and I want to see them to fruition. As I said in another post, this entire thread will be a reference point for the new mod team to use for changes. Just need some time, but the changes will come.

[–]Typhron [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No problem.

And an immediate fix to the problem would just be to either brighten the background or darken the fonts by a few degees of either (namely the yellow and white, bleh). To figure that out you just need to figure out the html colors of them (any browser addon/extension or art program can allow you to find that out), and then just search for it in the css and adjust it accordingly. But that's only if you want to fiddle around with it.

[–]TiminielI craft, therefore I am. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Whatever you do, please find moderators that actually try and improve communication here. To simply allow anyone and everyone to come up and act like an idiot is not a good idea.

It's about time to actually strive to make the community more constructive.

[–]Lawlta[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's why I figure I would make the process public. This way it's people who the community wants to help maintain and change things.

[–]Onisake 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't post on this sub a lot. I don't play W* for a variety of reasons, but I have been watching the game closely. it's in a very interesting position in the market, so I think it's worth watching. as things improve, I might play it again, but that's a bit off topic.

One thing the sub needs is more centralized avenues of information, especially about things the sub wants to talk about.

In my opinion, one of the biggest problems over the last few days/weeks was a lack of information. had your moderator had the correct information and understanding of the discussions i think a lot of this could have been avoided.

Furthermore, there was a lot of disinformation within the community about how and why people were speculating anything.

When there are controversial topics, moderators should make efforts to create posts/pages/stickies/etc. to help educate EVERYONE that might come to this subreddit so they can make decisions themselves based on the data presented. it's important to differentiate between what is rumor/hearsay and what is speculation (guessing based on past behavior and data). they should also try to consolidate the discussion to fewer places so it's not in EVERY thread.

[–]Lawlta[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You made some very good points, and thank you for laying out what you think would make this place better.

I agree that a centralized source of information would be a good idea. With the recent pay model discussion, there hasn't been any official announcments. The only evidence people were able to speculate on were quarterly reports, and just recently the steam publication.

However, with more moderators who are passionate about the game, and also want the community to thrive, your idea is something that is very possible. Once the moderators are selected, this thread will be the reference point for changes.

[–]Onisake [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Good luck! building a healthy community can be a painful and difficult endeavor.

Certain discussions, like the pay model discussion, have a lot of interesting factors.

I don't recall anyone on this sub mentioning the fact that Nexon owns 15% of NCSoft stock, for instance. Nexon can, and does, influence management at NCSoft at the highest levels. Nexon and NCSoft have different viewpoints on how games should be marketed/made/distributed/etc. NCSoft has also been engaging in stock-swaps with another company to reduce Nexon's influence on both companies. Things like this aren't mentioned or talked about, and really they are likely a key factor in why it takes so long to get official announcements and how decisions get made at NCSoft.

it's important to remember. data is data, it can't lie. but it can be misinterpreted. :) Good luck! i'm looking forward to see how the community develops.

[–]Arimer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I would like to return to the game but my guild has quit. Do any of you have a good guild on the exile side? Nothing hardcore raiding but I would like to get into raiding but I have a a family so i can't devote hours and hours like i used to.

[–]ARX7 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are plenty exile side on NA not sure on EU, just make sure you are on the pve server

[–]kuldirongaze 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What time zone? NA or EU? Alura gaming is NA on Entity and has both OCE and NA members.

[–]Arimer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm in central time zone, na. I can play from around7-11 on central

[–]kuldirongaze 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exile or Dominion? Best is to go to the capital when you normally play and ask in zone/advice for guilds recruiting.

[–]CensoredOtaku 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey! I'm unbanned! Ding dong etc...

[–]NilianaVenus Rising GM -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I was surprised when you gave girlwithruinedteeth mod status considering how self-centred she is and how she carries herself on the official forums. If I were more familiar with reddit I'd sign up for it. Also I'm pretty busy, which is why I've not hosted any community events for Jabbit. :(

[–]Lawlta[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I was surprised when you gave girlwithruinedteeth mod status

Was a decision that was off my radar. Chats were had in steam/skype that did not include me. Not saying I would have gone against it, but I can't say for sure I would have been on board as well.

[–]NilianaVenus Rising GM [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I actually stopped coming to this sub after finding out she was a mod.

[–]Lawlta[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well hopefully that change, and the upcoming changes will make this a more welcoming place for you and others.

[–]NilianaVenus Rising GM [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

fingers crossed thanks for keeping us updated.

[–]fooey -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Bit funny to complain about a moderator removing discussion as you remove the top discussions xD

[–]Lawlta[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sorry about that, I made an edit that linked to that discussion. The user who created it deleted the post, but that should go to it.

[–]fooey 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah, that makes sense.

I should have realized she was the one who nuked the threads

[–]Lawlta[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha, sorry about that though, I should have considered that.

[–]Makaruby -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

looks like trolls win again, yay for trolls

[–]Wuzz -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

#EclipsForPresident