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Channel Fireball (allegedly) in possession of two pieces of artwork previously stolen from artist Amy Weber (i.imgur.com)

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[–]defenestr8[S] 97 ポイント98 ポイント  (40子コメント)

The two pieces in question are Argothian Treefolk and Crystal Rod. Magic original art in general has become very expensive. Pieces from the first couple of sets are worth thousands of dollars.

I am not the artist nor do I work for her. I thought I would pass on this information on here to bring attention to this issue.

[–]fanboy_killer 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Where can one buy original MtG art?

[–]irons 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

check with Vorthos Mike, @VorthosMike

[–]mikelinnemann 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Vorthos

Lots of places. From eBay to OriginalMagicArt's marketplace to asking artists if they have pieces, to simply letting some larger collectors know that you're looking for something. It's become easier to get art, but more difficult to get great art.

[–]fanboy_killer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Are fakes a thing among Magic art pieces?

[–]mikelinnemann 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

fakes

Not yet, but there will be in time. Since Greek pots became valuable (at least), there has always been fakes of art.

[–]SleepingSheeperson 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Some of Michelangelo's first sculpture was unsigned and a lot of art historians think he got his start making fake "ancient" sculpture that was sold as something dug up from Greek & Roman ruins.

[–]mikelinnemann 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Huh, I haven't heard that. Got any solid links or research on that? I'd love to read up on that. (Yes, I can google it, but that's a crapshoot for solid material.)

[–]SleepingSheeperson 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Learned it in a college class.

[–]Diablomarcus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Check out the Alpha Art Project

http://www.originalmagicart.com/alpha-art-project/

[–]fanboy_killer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Were Rebecca Guay or Jon Avon ever on the list or do they sell their art elsewhere?

[–]mikelinnemann 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guay sells through a gallery and it's very, very expensive: http://www.rmichelson.com/Artist_Pages/Guay/Rebecca-Guay.html

John sells through his agent, Guy Coulson, who's great people. You can just email them through his site to ask what he has left: http://www.johnavon.com/

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    [–]DoktorPunk 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Since there are a lot of statements flying around here, I figured I would make an account and provide some more context. This is all based on personal communications with the artist. I am not personally involved.

    -Amy has not deleted the post. It is still on her personal Facebook page. She did not make this post in a public forum. People that know her shared it.

    -The artworks were stolen years ago and a police report was filed.

    -Channel Fireball came into possession of the artworks in the past few years. They did not originally steal them. They took possession after the fact.

    -Amy has been in contact with Channel Fireball about this incident for more than just the past few days. This has been going on for a protracted period of time.

    -There has been two-way communication between her and Channel Fireball and/or its representatives regarding this topic.

    Draw your conclusions as you will. But that is my understanding of the situation as it has been explained to me.

    [–]cjcrashoveride 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    If it was reported stolen and they have on file the items stolen why does she not simply contact the police and have them collect the stolen goods?

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      [–]Gideon-Jura 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

      Edit: and I'm wrong... my bad guys

      [–]tvsbestdad 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The Nantuko Shade and Terminate art would have sold for significantly more if the ebay seller had known what they were worth and priced them higher than the insanely low buy it now.

      [–]tvsbestdad 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Crystal Rod is an artwork from Alpha which inherently raises the value considerably. Pieces from older sets such as Antiquities also demand more.

      [–]defenestr8[S] 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (12子コメント)

      I take it then you are not active in the Magic art community. Shade and Terminate should have certainly sold for way more than they did. They were listed as Buy it nows on ebay. Had they went to auction, they would have gone for way more.

      Alpha art holds a premium for just being from Alpha. Just to give some examples of some Alpha pieces that have been auctioned publicly through one of the collector groups:

      Regeneration: $18.5K

      Healing Salve: $6k

      Wooden Sphere: $8050

      Gloom: $7.6K

      It's fair to say that both of these pieces will bring in significant money if brought to public auction and that you really don't know much about this.

      [–]bradygilg 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (11子コメント)

      Wow, Regeneration cost more than Black Lotus?

      [–]defenestr8[S] 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think it is fair to say if that Lotus art were auctioned today, it would probably be almost double what it originally sold for. There's a lot more money being thrown around today.

      [–]greenpm33 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      The black lotus art in question isn't the original; it was new art for the MTGO Holiday Cube.

      [–]bradygilg 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Was the original ever sold?

      [–]zlfaurora 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      No. I believe its in posession of Wizards of the Coast.

      [–]Xerlic 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      The original lotus art was owned by peter adkison, the founder of wotc and guy who owns gencon. I believe it was then sold pretty recently.

      [–]defenestr8[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It is not in possession by WotC and yes it has changed hands recently.

      [–]JustWiggl3s 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Interestingly, it's believed so. It was all private so nobody knows officially. Apparently over 100k IIRC

      [–]ImmortalBacon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Unless its hanged hands again, the current owner has a picture of him holding it on his facebook title image...(i saw it earlier this year through the high end group)...

      [–]JustWiggl3s 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Ah, i must be thinking of the moxen?

      [–]vladthor 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yes, Regeneration went for more probably partially because the original artist (Quinton Hoover, who did some of the best artworks in all of Magic history) is dead (depending on when it sold - he died in April '13).

      [–]Slutsnya 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The original oil painting of the alternate art Ugin sold for more than $12K on eBay earlier this year.

      edit: dollars

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        [–]ChannelFireball_ 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        We have released an official statement with respect to this matter.

        http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/353gpy/channelfireball_statement_regarding_amy_weber/

        [–]MaxPlaysMTG 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (81子コメント)

        Looks like the original post has since been updated:

        http://imgur.com/ZTZwdUP

        [–]artsielbocaj 124 ポイント125 ポイント  (78子コメント)

        Tristan Gregson liked this.

        Uh, super awkward.

        [–]1l1k3bac0n 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (71子コメント)

        Not in the loop: who is Tristan Gregson?

        [–]Xavus 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        http://www.channelfireball.com/home/announcement-regarding-tristan-shaun-gregson/

        Google is amazing.

        In short, used to work for CFB, got caught stealing inventory and selling it on eBay. Him liking a post that flames CFB, presumably because he holds a grudge, is awkward.

        If I had posted that, I wouldn't want his name associated with it.

        edit: Ok guys I get it. Accused of theft and never charged. The more you know.

        [–]alexandrosMTGO 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        If I had posted that, I wouldn't want his name associated with it.

        What was Amy Weber supposed to do? Not allow him to 'like' a public FB post? She probably doesn't even know who he is given that she hasn't made Magic art for 20 years. I like CFB and have bought many times from them but come on people..

        [–]joeshill 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It would be more accurate to say:

        "Used to work for CFB and was fired with the accusation that he stole inventory. Police investigated. No charges were filed. "

        Him liking a post that flames CFB is understandable, given the circumstances.

        [–]bautin -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        got caught stealing inventory and selling it on eBay.

        And here's the hypocrisy. All we have is CFB's word that TSG stole those cards. The police were contacted, searched his home, and no charges were filed. So you're sharpening your pitchfork for TSG based on nothing more than "CFB said so", but since it's someone going after CFB for the much less impressive crime of "having unknowingly bought some stolen property and refusing to return it", you're demanding a much higher standard of proof.

        [–]Xavus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        You want to talk about sharpening your pitchfork? Look to your own comment. I answered a question someone had about who is Tristan Gregson with a cursory google search. I hadn't even been playing magic at the time this happened, so it's all news to me.

        I said literally nothing about this woman's art issue. Not in that comment, nor anywhere else in this thread, and yet you're projecting a whole lot of assumptions at me.

        [–]bautin 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Well, he didn't get caught stealing. He got accused of stealing and fired for that accusation, nothing was ever definitively proven.

        [–]Nads89 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        got caught stealing inventory and selling it on eBay

        You're a regular Blacksmith I tell ya.

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          [–]daemonicBookkeeper 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (34子コメント)

          Former employee of Channel Fireball, employment terminated due to alleged theft.

          [–]jankmtg 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (33子コメント)

          and yet, walking around as a free man, since CFB couldn't prove he stole anything, except in public forums where idiots believe anything they read.

          [–]GarrukApexRedditor 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It's almost as if individual people can make up their own minds about what standard of proof is sufficient, as long as they aren't locking people in jail over it.

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              [–]TSGNHLShark 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I actually like Amy Weber, but draw your own conclusions as usual

              [–]artsielbocaj 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              All parties mentioned thus far have either made or received allegations of theft some time or another. It'd be pretty irresponsible of me to assume one party is in the right while another isn't, based solely on the allegations made.

              Not to seem smug, but "super awkward" was my conclusion. Nothing more.

              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–]42x42 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I never found the exact time he make that funny laugh. Anyone have the source?

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]TSGNHLShark 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  One was Twitter, the other was Facebook. However, I do indeed like Amy Weber so thanks for pointing that out

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]SteveGuillerm 594 ポイント595 ポイント  (137子コメント)

                    Devil's Advocate:

                    She posted that these items were stolen on Tuesday afternoon. She's badmouthing CFB little more than 24 hours later. Even if CFB is intending to fully cooperate, they probably want to get lawyers involved rather than just dropping it in the mail.

                    If I had bought something, and the artist claimed it was stolen, I might ask for some proof. They presumably dropped some major dollars on this; they're gonna do the due diligence. If it were a week or a month? Yeah, freak out. After a day and a half? Slow down. Let them check with their lawyers to find out their rights.

                    I feel bad for Amy Weber if her claim is accurate, but she's lashing out at CFB and pressuring them with the threat of bad press makes this appear more like a con than it should.

                    [–]Uberkiffer 275 ポイント276 ポイント  (108子コメント)

                    I don't have a source, but I have been following Amy for several years and have acquired several altered artist proofs from her. She had these and a few other paintings stolen from her years ago and has been in the process trying to get them recovered. This is not a new issue, just one where she was finally able to confirm who had the paintings after years of searching.

                    [–]defenestr8[S] 111 ポイント112 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    This is correct. People within the community have known to be on the lookout for these pieces.

                    [–]SteveGuillerm 182 ポイント183 ポイント  (58子コメント)

                    Think about it from CFB's perspective though. You buy iconic artwork. You're suddenly told it's stolen. You may or may not have the legal requirement to return it, depending on what the laws are. Your insurance may or may not cover the loss, depending on documentation.

                    These things take time, and she's just being (apparently) impatient with them. Obviously we don't have the full story, but her Facebook status from Tuesday said they "will be registered with the F.B.I.’s National Stolen Art File and the INTERPOL database of stolen art."

                    So, they were stolen years ago, but she never reported them to the authorities til now? What's going on here?

                    The whole situation sucks, but the escalation seems fast.

                    [–]georg51 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (42子コメント)

                    You DO have the legal requirement to return stolen items if you purchased them, regardless if you knew it was stolen merchandise or not.

                    [–]InfanticideAquifer 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    You don't, however, have the legal requirement to return the items immediately based on nothing but someone's word. Expecting a 24 hour turnaround on something like this is absurd.

                    [–]notaballoon 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    She has not indicated that it was 24 hours from the time she notified CFB. It is possible this is the first time CFB has heard about it, but it seems unlikely that the first thing she did was post to facebook, especially since she claims they have refused to return the works already

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                      [–]ChrisN_BHG 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Actually that's not entirely accurate.

                      While you won't likely be charged for receiving the stolen goods (unless of course it's proven you knew they were stolen in which case you absolutely will be charged), most states do in fact require the items be returned to the original owner. The thief would then be responsible for paying restitution to CFB.

                      [–]ThisDamnSite 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      ...But that's exactly what she or he just said, so how are they not being entirely accurate?

                      [–]mr_indigo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      There's no "bona fide purchaser for value without notice" rule in the USA?

                      EDIT: A quick google says apparently not; you're all nemo dat rule.

                      [–]boscology 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      And art theft is one of the few crimes there is NO statute of limitations on. (Think art stolen in wars etc.)

                      [–]VitalyO 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      That's usually true, but for a high value good it makes sense to check. I don't really know the details, but if for example she was scammed with a bad check or something, CFB might have the right to them.

                      [–]crk0 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      Just playing devil's advocate here but what's stopping someone from just showing up and claiming their item was stolen and demanding it be returned if it had in fact been legitimately sold long ago. If these pieces were stolen years ago and yet no report was filed until just now doesn't that seem really suspicious? Who's to say they weren't simply sold way back when and the records of that sale have since been lost.

                      [–]sigismond0 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Burden of proof, police report, etc etc. In this case, the pieces were stolen years ago and it was made public at that time. Not much to argue with there.

                      If she literally came out today saying they were stolen, and CFB responded with a receipt/invoice/whatever, that's when things get fishy.

                      [–]regalrecaller 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Um, a receipt would answer that claim nicely.

                      [–]crk0 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      which is why I mention that if it was sold years ago the record or receipt could easily have been lost. I don't tend to keep my receipts for years and years all the time

                      [–]regalrecaller -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I mean, it's hard to believe there would have been no trace of a sale like that. If it had been legit, there's at the minimum bank records for a transaction that large (as i assume it would have been). All the buyer would have to do is produce some shred of evidence and Weber's case crumbles, as does all of her professional credibility. I think there would likely be formal charges drawn up against her as well, whether civil or criminal. She stands to lose a lot if she is lying about stolen art and trying to defame a company and/or its owners.

                      [–]TheWorldMayEnd 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Bank record for 4 figure sums? Not necessarily. I've paid for many 4 figure sums in cash through my life, t.v., contractor etc. Heck I even bought my first car cash for a very small 5 figure sum after saving every dollar I touch for years.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                        [–]MrDoomBringer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                        [Citation needed]?

                        Pretty sure there's statute of limitations on these kinds of things, along with a time window to report the missing. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure insurance will pick up the tab if you end up returning it.

                        [–]Iohet 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        There is not a statute of limitations on returning stolen goods. There is on charging people for receiving stolen property.

                        [–]flashcats 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        You're not exactly right.

                        http://www.michbar.org/journal/article.cfm?articleID=580&volumeID=11

                        It really depends on the facts and local laws.

                        [–]Lawant 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        If that were true, the British Museum would have a lot more empty space.

                        [–]eddiemon 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        We're not talking about international law here though.

                        [–]Mid-Range 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It depends on the state laws. If in fact the property was stolen, and was reported properly CFB has a legal obligation to return it. (This may or may not need to be done in person, sometimes law enforcement needs to claim the item,(or at least be present) and return it to the individual depending on state laws.)

                        It depends how the item was purchased though, if CFB bought the item as a store they might be subject to pawn laws where information about the seller is required to be recorder to conduct the sale.

                        In most cases buyer returns the item to owner, and seller reimburses buyer. However if this information was not properly recorder it might be impossible to go after the buyer for financial reimbursement. (I'm not sure about California's state laws when it comes to this)

                        [–]Adventurepoop -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                        Are you atleast entitled to fair compensation?

                        [–]Dodobirdlord 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                        No, this is to ensure that there is as little incentive as possible to purchase stolen goods. In the event that it's discovered that you have them, you will just have to give them back.

                        [–]tkioz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                        Yeah, its true the world over, and while the law makes sense, it can sometimes suck hardcore. For example I purchase some welding equipment about ten years ago, I thought it was all above board until the cops rolled up and confiscated it after arresting the dude that stole/sold it.

                        Thankfully the cops believed that I didn't know about it being stolen, but I was still out a decent chunk of change since the dirt bag in question had spent the money.

                        It was an expensive lesson in making very sure about the providence of your purchases, but one I learned well.

                        [–]notaballoon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        I mean, theoretically, you could bring a civil suit against the guy who sold it to you. Might be worth it for major purchases.

                        [–]dyweasel 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        In most cases that costs more than the money lost. Likewise, what's the point of suing someone who has no money?

                        [–]tkioz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Sure, in some cases it can work that way, but generally? You're just boned. In my case I didn't even bother talking to a lawyer after I chatted with some of the cops (they were very nice about it) and they explained that the guy was totally broke and going away for a long while.

                        Compensation sounds great but often you'll need to fight tooth and nail to get it, even after you've been awarded it in court. Drunk driver smashed into my car out the front of my house, totally destroyed it (front was crushed), he wasn't insured, mine wouldn't cover it. Took him to court, got awarded compensation, saw about $50 all up. He just kept dodging everything, refused to show up in court, eventually did a runner when he got a local girl pregnant.

                        [–]Shuko 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Yeah, pawn shops have to eat costs like this fairly often sometimes. I know the owner of a shop in town who always gets a sick feeling every time a policeman enters his establishment, because he's almost always about to be out some money. No matter how careful he is, he can't always predict who's legit and who isn't.

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                          [–]Gaming_Loser 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          No. And if it can be proven they knowing bought stolen items (which it seems that it is well known they were stolen) the buyer can face jail time.

                          [–]TheFalsePoet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          If it was not known the items were stolen at the time of purchase, the buyer will typically have a cause of action in fraud against the vendor of the stolen items. However, it's not often that a vendor of stolen goods has assets worth collecting on.

                          [–]georg51 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          I believe you can go after the seller for compensation since they are liable for selling stolen goods.

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                                [–]ZeldaZach 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (28子コメント)

                                Exactly. I've been speaking with her for months about these pieces and she's been trying her best to get them back. CFB's refusal to cooperate really is a deterrent of their shops and what they really think of magic; a business where sometimes you can break the law to make money

                                Edit: She also updated her FB post from when this thread initially started: https://imgur.com/R9FAfl2

                                [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                If Amy has been talking to CFB about this for months, posting some evidence of that would go a long way towards silencing the criticisms being brought up.

                                [–]FiveStarCards 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                Just look at her facebook.
                                "The Santa Clara entity and/or person(s) in possession of the works have thus far refused to return them despite repeated demands and proof of theft."

                                [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                Saying "I have proof" is not the same as having nor the same as showing that proof.

                                [–]Yglorba 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                I mean, expecting her to give a detailed accounting via Twitter is a bit silly. The purpose of posting it on Twitter isn't to win Internet Dollars in some nebulous Reddit Court, it's to pressure CFB to respond in a timely fashion, which it'll do.

                                But construct your scenario of what you think is going on here, because I'm not seeing it. Are you implying you think she's lying about having proof? Are you implying you think she's lying that they were ever stolen?

                                Now, I mean, she might be mistaken or something or her proof might be insufficient even if they were really stolen, but... since she says she's sent proof to CFB, we'll probably know, more or less, within a day or so -- if they say they never got proof or that the proof is insufficient, they're going to say so immediately.

                                (And it's hard to see why she would post this if she didn't at least believe she had genuine proof, because otherwise it won't accomplish anything but embarrass her at best and possibly land her in legal trouble herself at worst. Again, Internet Points aren't a thing; "silencing the criticisms that were brought up by some armchair lawyers on Reddit" isn't exactly something she has any reason to care about when the truth can be easily established one way or the other the moment CFB starts responding.)

                                Obviously we should reserve judgment, but the fact that this will obviously go so completely badly for her if she's wrong strikes me as enough of a reason to give her at least some benefit of the doubt and wait until CFB replies rather than immediately going all accusatory "SHOW ME THE PROOF."

                                [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                I'm not overly interested in proof of ten paintings being stolen. The police reports and such are public records, and anyone who wants to see them can pull up google. I'm interested in proof of an ongoing conversation between Weber and CFB. Yes, there are public comments that state Weber is tracking down the art for a while on her FB page, but the only ones insisting that she has found it, including ones where she is refusing to name names, are from the past week. In CFB has had months to handle this and done nothing, that's way different than if they've just heard about it.

                                Weber certainly has no obligation to post proof of this. On the other hand, this is very clearly an attempt on her part to create bad PR for CFB. It's not the first time she's chosen this method to attempt to resolve a legal matter; last year she did the same thing to an alterist that modified some of her work. In that case, her legal argument was shaky, but the public response caused a favorable resolution for her anyway. From what's been posted about this situation, it looks to be the same sort of thing.

                                Weber has since deleted the FB post about this. A likely reason for that (though not the only possible reason) is that the post legally qualified as slander (even if CFB has the art and the art is stolen, as it makes claims about CFBs intents and actions) and that CFB is actually large enough to afford a lawyer, unlike independent alterists. Another possible reason is that a mistake of some sort was made, and CFB does not have the art in question. Yet another possible reason is that CFB has contacted her and is in the process of addressing a valid issue. In none of these cases is CFB in the wrong, and having them handle a PR bomb because of it sucks.

                                Tl:dr. Was asking for proof of conversation with CFB before this week, not of art being stolen.

                                [–]Timiniel -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                Pardon me, but how would slander apply here ?

                                None of the posts make claims for fact of false events, which is a requirement for slander to apply... Did I miss anything?

                                [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                The statement that CFB has refused to do anything after communication. If she sent a non-certified request and has not received a reply, that's a not-verifiably true statement (as it is possible that CFB has not been in communication, having not seen or not processed the message) that has been damaging (a single person saying "I'm canceling my GP Vegas pre reg because of this" satisfies this).

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                                    [–]regalrecaller 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Has she been silent about it? Maybe we just haven't been paying attention.

                                    [–]SpiderParadox 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    This is the sort of thing that can possibly turn into a lawsuit.

                                    No way any interested party reveals any evidence outside of a courtroom, and I don't blame them for that.

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                                      [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      She has now deleted that FB post.

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                                        [–]mEthidz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                        Well then it might be even more complicated then, suppose that CFB bought these pieces from someone else (and not even necessarily from the thief) without the knowledge they were stolen?

                                        Now, I'm no law scientist, but it seems like it would take one to resolve this

                                        [–]Little_Gray 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        No it really does not. If Amy can prove that those pieces of artwork were stolen from her then regardless of how many people they went through later legally they have to be returned to her.

                                        [–]yggdrasiliv 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                        It doesn't usually matter if you know it was stolen though. All that does is prevent you from being charged too.

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                                          [–]Thenoahbradley 149 ポイント150 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          I have sources close to Amy Weber, and that is not the case. Due diligence has been done.

                                          [–]drakeblood4 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                          I think it's important we don't let our opinions of stores shape this too terribly. If any store other than CFB or CK we'd be more than ready to riot.

                                          Is it understandable that CFB would lawyer up, demand a police report, and wait to be served papers requiring them to return the goods? Sure. This says some worrying things about the price point they're willing to be ruthless at though.

                                          [–]kapol 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                          Honestly, unless I'm mistaken, we don't really know any of the details other than they have her paintings. We don't know how recently they got them, or even if they know who they bought them from.

                                          Hell, for all we know, they contacted her to let her know they have them. I'm not sure how else she would have found out honestly. This could just be her immediately posting and trying to get a shit-storm going. Likely due to them saying they weren't just going to send it right back for any number of reasons (the right people in the company didn't know yet, they wanted to get in touch with their lawyers/proper authorities first to find the people who they bought the paintings from, etc).

                                          But it's just as possible that CFB isn't willing to part with them if they don't have to too, or are asking for what they paid back. I don't think we honestly know at this point. And getting the internet up in arms to have a backlash about a situation it knows nothing about is never a good thing. It doesn't matter who the company is. Her post feels a bit too much like trying to immediately rally the internet over for me to be comfortable supporting any side.

                                          That said, if there is any proof they've had it for a while or there isn't something else going on, then that's fair too. As I started with, I honestly don't know.

                                          [–]MyEvilTwinSkippy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          But it's just as possible that CFB isn't willing to part with them if they don't have to too, or are asking for what they paid back.

                                          Pretty sure that trying to keep stolen property or trying to extort money from the owner for its return would both be illegal.

                                          And getting the internet up in arms to have a backlash about a situation it knows nothing about is never a good thing.

                                          Absolutely true...nobody knows what has been exchanged between the two parties. The fact that the artwork was stolen is widely known enough to accept at face value despite the doubters here. She's mad and frustrated, but we don't know the details so we don't know how badly this falls on CFB. That said, there aren't many ways that they come out of this looking good.

                                          [–]drakeblood4 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          Receipt and possession of stolen goods is a federal crime. Not even making a cursory attempt to verify expensive art before buying it isn't just stupid, it's illegal.

                                          [–]kapol 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          We don't know if they even knew it was the legitimate version of it. Someone might have hocked it off as being a fake for all we know. And that might be exactly why they wouldn't want to just ship it right back to her. Contacting the authorities and their own legal department before they take any more steps seems like the best move at this point.

                                          My point is, we don't know the situation at all. We don't know how they acquired the paintings, from where, or why they didn't immediately give it back when the artist claimed they were hers. Outside of the artist saying so, we don't even know if they actually have the actual originals at all. Starting a big attack on CFB (or it could be any company really) over a Facebook post with little to no other context or evidence seems hasty.

                                          [–]Little_Gray 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Honestly looking around I could not find anything about this art being stolen before Amy Webers current claim.

                                          [–]Tantaburs 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          If you are ready to riot over accusations lacking any form of evidence then you realy need to raise your bar for rioting.

                                          People are innocent until proven guilty not the other way around

                                          [–]Treacherous_Peach 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Who's to say she posted they were stolen as soon as she knew? Perhaps that post was the original, neutral threat to CFB.

                                          [–]mr_noblet 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          Not sure why you're getting downvoted here. Kneejerk reactions and mob mentality are far too common here.

                                          I don't doubt her claims, but what she's doing is not the right way of going about recovering her property. She can't expect them to immediately send her the works without having proof of her claims and then contacting law enforcement to investigate whoever sold it to them.

                                          She's stopping just short of accusing CFB of directly stealing her work, which is irresponsible at best.

                                          Edit: It seems your initial negative score was more of a kneejerk and less of a pitchfork mob. Glad to see /r/MagicTCG is not falling into the typical Reddit angry-mob-a-roo.

                                          [–]TheFalsePoet 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          You actually bring up a good point about bringing in the person or group that sold the pieces to CFB. I wonder if her publicizing this harms their ability to get a hold of the vendor that fenced them.

                                          EDIT: fat thumbs, small phone.

                                          [–]bautin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          The thing is that that person probably is also probably a link or two off from the original thief as well. The person that sold it to CFB could have also possibly thought it was legitimately obtained.

                                          It's not worth dragging him into this unless it can be proven that he was the thief. But I doubt he was or even the original fence as one would hope they'd have more sense than to sell to one of the larger online retailers of Magic products.

                                          Also: CFB isn't in the wrong for buying this art. They would be in the wrong if they kept it after it was proven it was stolen from the artist. Sure it sucks and you take a hit, but it is what it is.

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                                            [–]FiveStarCards 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            "The Santa Clara entity and/or person(s) in possession of the works have thus far refused to return them despite repeated demands and proof of theft."

                                            [–]Apellosine 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Finally a voice of reason, on the internet. Say it a'int so!

                                            [–]CanardWC 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            And if it's been six months, as we now know?

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                                              [–]jsweet4979 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              At this point, there is no reason to flip out on either side. Here's a scenario (completely fabricated/speculative, mind you) where both sides are more or less in the right: CFB has been made aware but they are unsure of how to proceed without exposing themselves to further liability, and they have been dragging their feet a bit. Weber wants to speed things up, so she makes this announcement on social media. Now CFB's hand is forced, and they have to get right on that. Honestly, in that scenario neither party really comes off that badly -- assuming CFB proceeds to the do the right thing.

                                              OOOooorrr, there are a million details we don't know. At this point, there's not really any conclusions to be drawn until CFB chooses to respond or not, and what they say.

                                              [–]WardenV 127 ポイント128 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                              People need to take a deep breath and realize relevant CFB staff may not have any clue they possess stolen goods. This facebook/twitter post feels like a knee-jerk reaction to try and get a response.

                                              If you genuinely feel someone has your stolen property, facebook posts and tweets aren't the way to address it; that is how you over dramatize it.

                                              [–]passwordisnotcar 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              I don't see why they don't just turn over their [[Stolen Goods]], they're like $0.14...

                                              [–]MTGCardFetcher 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Stolen Goods - Gatherer, MC, ($)
                                              [[cardname]] to call - not on gatherer = not fetchable

                                              [–]Al-a-Gorey 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Not now FetchBot!

                                              [–]MrFluffykinz 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              it seems like the way of choice for getting shit accomplished when you're upset with a company is to post about it on social media. Pretty dirty if you ask me, but effective.

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                                                [–]mr_noblet 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                She appears to have deleted the facebook post.

                                                [–]mr_noblet 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                So many unanswered questions here and we only have one side of a story with many facets.

                                                • How long ago were these stolen?
                                                • From whom/where were they stolen?
                                                • Was a police report filed at that time?
                                                • Was there knowledge of the whereabouts of the works before CFB bought them?
                                                • What were the circumstances surrounding the alleged theft? (i.e. is it plausible that they were in some collection somewhere and were misplaced/lost/sold accidentally)
                                                • How did Amy find out the paintings were in CFBs possession?

                                                I could go on and on, but the point is that we're only getting one very biased side of the story here and CFB has shown to be a generally high-class organization in the past (I think they dealt with the TSG incident well).

                                                Amy is clearly trying to pressure them with the power of the internet mob and that's a pretty dodgy thing to do so soon after her initial contact with them.

                                                [–]defenestr8[S] 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                Ok so here is what I know:

                                                • These pieces were stolen several years ago from her.
                                                • From what I understand, a police report was filed. Additionally, both pieces were registered with the FBI and Interpol stolen art database.

                                                [–]Rhynocerous 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                I wonder why the pieces don't show up in the FBI database.

                                                [–]jonashaase 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                Actually on her FB page she says

                                                Both works will be registered with the F.B.I.’s National Stolen Art File and the INTERPOL database of stolen art.

                                                So something doesn't quite line up. We have no idea what kind of communication happened between the two parties so it is definitely too early for pitchforks.

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                                                  [–]FiveStarCards 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  so soon after her initial contact with them.

                                                  You seem to know nothing so why assume she is jumping the gun.

                                                  [–]regalrecaller 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  I completely agree. This deserves a lot of questions to determine facts. I nominate reddit to solve this crime.

                                                  [–]manaburn777 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Too soon.

                                                  [–]Magic29 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                  Alpha Art Project has Crystal Rod listed as unknown.

                                                   

                                                  http://www.originalmagicart.com/alpha-art-project/

                                                  [–]xylog 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  Should Volcanic Island be listed there since it was not actually in Alpha?

                                                  [–]Magic29 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Volcanic Island was suppose to be in Alpha so there was art for it.

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                                                    [–]Ryusei71 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    Yes, it's catty for the artist to make this post, but why the vehement defense of CFB? It's like all the people we idolize in the Magic community can do nothing wrong, and if you call them out for anything, such as cheating, stealing or other bad behavior, you get drowned in screams defending them. Are we all just a bunch of sycophants?

                                                    [–]KenjiSenpai 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                    ITT people who arent lawyers but think they are

                                                    [–]slowhand88 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    I dated a lawyer once and we didn't use protection cause she had an IUD so I think that makes me like half a lawyer now. I'm pretty sure it's a communicable disease.

                                                    [–]eoin62 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    As an actual lawyer, I can confirm this. When you are sworn into the bar they make you go back and notify all of your previous partners that you are now a lawyer and that they should get tested. Usually this is done by adding "esquire" after your name on Facebook.

                                                    [–][削除されました]  (11子コメント)

                                                    [deleted]

                                                      [–]ridire1066 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                      until we see CFB's side of the story i dont think that siding with the artist is reasonable

                                                      [–]NotADamsel 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                      So we demonize the artist instead? Yeah, no thanks.

                                                      [–]ridire1066 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                      we arent demonizing her we are witing for cfb

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                                                        [–]Sceptilesolar 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        Man, some of you people. I like CFB, but that doesn't shield them from resolving this issue, either by somehow verifying the legality of the pieces or by returning them. This isn't a matter of waiting and seeing.

                                                        The TSG matter is also not at all relevant, and even if it were actually demonstrated that he stole, it doesn't mean everything he said is invalidated.

                                                        [–]tvsbestdad 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                        Not sure what the artist community is like, but I wonder if any artists would pull out of Grand Prix Vegas over this.

                                                        [–]Berksmb 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Big money weekend? Doubt it.

                                                        [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                        Over a TO knowingly and intentionally keeping possession of stolen original art? Almost certainly.

                                                        Over a single artist making claims of this without providing substantiating proof and without allowing for a timeframe to actually return the property? Almost certainly not.

                                                        But there are a ton of artists here on Reddit. Maybe one of them could chime in?

                                                        [–]Thenoahbradley 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                        I've done a bit of digging, and at least from this side of the fence, Channel Fireball seems to be deeply in the wrong.

                                                        [–]mrenglish22 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Is there anything that you can share? Or how you figured it out? Just interested to know if you have stuff the public could know, or if it is all backroom type stuff.

                                                        [–]drakeblood4 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                        Can we really trust a man who didn't enjoy Avatar: the Last Airbender? I mean based on that alone any testimony you give is suspect.

                                                        [–]Thenoahbradley 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        I'm giving it another shot. Maybe I'll come around. ;)

                                                        [–]jassi007 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I hope so, I'd hate to cross you off the list of my favorite artists. :P Seriously though, its good but nothing earth shattering imo.

                                                        [–]drakeblood4 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        How I feel hearing that

                                                        Season 1 is definitely the most 'kids show' feeling part of it. If you need to chunk out bits of S1, that's fine. The big plot episodes are The Southern Air Temple, Winter Solstice p1, Winter Solstice p2, Jet, The Storm, The Blue Spirit, The Siege of the North p1, and the Siege of the North p2.

                                                        Season 2 is where it really hits its stride. Best Zuko episodes, some of the best fight choreography, and a few beautifully emotional scenes that still bring me to tears.

                                                        [–]passwordisnotcar 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Asking the important questions...

                                                        [–]Umutuku 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Given the current (seemingly limited) information that everyone's arguing about right now, how would you handle this if you were in the same situation?

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                                                            [–]Pogotross 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            If they were tying her up with legal nonsense to keep from handing the art over? Sure. Over the current facebook accusations? Nah.

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                                                              [–]yellowcoward 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Not really having anything to do with the subject, but she has these auctions up and the wording really sounds like the original card is a time walk, but I seriously doubt it. Even though she is the original artist of time walk, doesn't blanking an MTG card and then calling it time walk because that's what you drew on it come across as a little weird?

                                                              [–]johhny-turbo 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                              has anyone from CFB commented on this yet?

                                                              [–]ridire1066 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              well its 4 am CFB time so they have to wake up

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                                                                [–]R3dstorm86 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                $100 says no one bothered stealing [[Celestial Prism]]

                                                                [–]MTGCardFetcher 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Celestial Prism - Gatherer, MC, ($)
                                                                [[cardname]] to call - not on gatherer = not fetchable

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                                                                  [–]fadetoblack1004 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (35子コメント)

                                                                  EDIT: Obviously due diligence needs to be done before CFB returns the paintings and the claimant needs to provide proof, but I mean more in general, there is no point to holding onto stolen goods hoping things will work out well for you.

                                                                  There is literally zero point to holding onto stolen goods, only bad things can come of it, especially when it's easily traceable material like original artwork.

                                                                  If this is true, after due diligence is done, CFB needs to sack up and give it back... even if they paid for it, they paid for stolen merchandise and they have a legal responsibility to return it to the original owner. They can pursue damages against the individual who sold it to them if they want to be made whole again, and if that person bought it off somebody else, they can turn around and file suit against them, and etc.

                                                                  [–]mr_noblet 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                  Giving them a few days to prove her claims and contact law enforcement is perfectly reasonable.

                                                                  Amy is trying to pressure them with an angry internet mob and that's really not cool. Give them a reasonable amount of time to respond properly before sicking the interwebs on them.

                                                                  [–]Nahhnope 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  You seem to be assuming this has all happened in the last day. How can you be sure of that? Also if they flat out said they will not be returning it, it doesn't seem they're planning on getting anything in order. What of your assumption is incorrect?

                                                                  [–]fadetoblack1004 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                  Well, obviously due diligence needs to be done and she needs to step up and prove that she had full ownership via whatever means possible, and procuring a police report proving the theft would certainly go a long way towards her getting her paintings back.

                                                                  I was speaking more in general. Stolen goods = bad news bears. I bought a bunch of coins that ended up having been stolen before, what a fuckin' headache.

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                                                                    [–]notlurkinganymoar 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    ITT: CFB sees this post and, lo and behold, they have been discussing how to return the artwork for quite some time. They have been in contact with the artist and will send her back the artwork sometime this week.

                                                                    [–]Slypenslyde 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    It's an interesting scenario but it's been a pretty short period of time. It'd be more productive to ask CFB to comment than it would to spend hours debating laws about returning stolen property down to the municipality layer of laws.

                                                                    [–]NevPicasso 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                    EDIT: At the time I posted this, the only comments on here were shaming CFB without proof. Now that it has swung the other way, I'm still interested in seeing CFB's official explanation.

                                                                    [–]JakeRandall 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                                    Seems funny in light of the TSG situation and all.

                                                                    edit: got my three letter acronyms names mixed up.

                                                                    [–]babyrhino 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (30子コメント)

                                                                    For someone who is out of the loop what is the TSG situation?

                                                                    [–]JakeRandall 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                                                    TSG was the old Magic TV host. They let him go on pretenses of theft/ selling stolen goods (see: http://www.channelfireball.com/home/announcement-regarding-tristan-shaun-gregson/). He claims to be innocent (police investigations found no concrete evidence/ he was never convicted of anything).

                                                                    This was back in 2012 and very recently Channel Fireball allegedly made threats to Face to Face games to the effect of "stop all of your dealings with TSG or we will stop letting you be a vendor when we host GPs. TSG was on a podcast called HeavyMeta (sponsored by Face to Face Games) and was kicked off rather unceremoniously.

                                                                    [–]babyrhino 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (28子コメント)

                                                                    I understand firing him but that seems kind of douchey to tell another company not to associate with him like that. If he was in a position where he was directly involved in buisness between the two I'd understand but this seems a but much.

                                                                    Thanks for the informative response

                                                                    [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                                                    "You are publicly affiliated with someone we believe to be a known thief. That conveys the type of image we do not want to have at our events. Please either fix that image or stop attending our events."

                                                                    Seems like a logical train of thought.

                                                                    [–]d3animator 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                                    Yeah you should be blacklisted from your chosen field of work because a previous employer thinks you ripped them off, with no proof and now they use their power and position to bully you out of jobs years later.

                                                                    Sounds like a company I want to fanboy over. Not.

                                                                    [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                    blacklisted

                                                                    Nope. He's fine to work in this industry, even at GPs. In fact, he was at Toronto a few days ago. This is one store making a decision about their personal location, something that is very common in every field of work.

                                                                    with no proof

                                                                    Nope. With insufficient proof to win a court case. As someone who has gone through having cards stolen, it is incredibly hard to reach that level of proof, since cards are designed to be interchangeable.

                                                                    fanboy

                                                                    I think folks fanboying over any store is a bit weird. I just also think that calling a store douchey for something that's a justifiable action is also not great.

                                                                    [–]TSGNHLShark 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                    Everybody chooses to see what they want to see and read what they want to read. I had sealed products with tracking barcodes which I was accused of stealing which were later found to have not come from their inventory. Thanks for the support Arthur

                                                                    [–]TheBiggestZander 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Hey there man! I was always a huge fan of your MagicTV show, there hasnt really been anyone with the right energy to carry the mantle since you left (no offence to Paul and Mashi!).

                                                                    From what I understood about the CFB situation, however, about 50 copies of Avacyn Restored cards went missing, and a similar list of cards was found in an Ebay posting, registered to you. You maintain this was still just a coincidence? Singles are impossible to connect/track when they go missing, as they are interchangeable. I assume they went looking for sealed product because it was the only thing they could possibly connect you with from the store, from a legal standpoint.

                                                                    I never believed that you stole sealed products. The circumstantial evidence on single sales seems more convincing, however, and I cannot find your refutation of it anywhere. I know it has been years since this happened, and you just want to get on with your life and career, but can you say something about the singles? To many of us, it seems like too large a coincidence to have happened by chance.

                                                                    [–]d3animator 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                    Everythings justifiable if you feel justified.

                                                                    "Channel Fireball allegedly made threats to Face to Face games to the effect of "stop all of your dealings with TSG or we will stop letting you be a vendor when we host GPs."

                                                                    Is that not influencing his ability to work in the industry in some way? Allegedly.

                                                                    Devils advocate all you want, thier hands aren't that clean by most accounts, people love LSV (who wouldn't, I do too he seems like a nice guy and he is a star in the magic scene.) but that doesn't give them carte blanche to throw their weight around. Honestly if it were a more beloved magic persona( such as LSV himself) I don't think everyone would automatically assume guilt.

                                                                    Also the fact the police never could prove anything and they themselves merely hold the belief he ripped them off seems like shakey ground to continue to persecute someone, its petty and unprofessional.

                                                                    Target or Walmart don't go around bad mouthing customers or employees they thought stole from them.

                                                                    [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                    "Channel Fireball allegedly made threats to Face to Face games to the effect of "stop all of your dealings with TSG or we will stop letting you be a vendor when we host GPs."

                                                                    Is that not influencing his ability to work in the industry in some way? Allegedly.

                                                                    I'm pretty sure that TSG stealing stuff is what's influencing his ability to work in the industry. Allegedly.

                                                                    [–]d3animator 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                    So now we are punishing people with no evidence in perpetuity for a crime they were never convicted of, wonderful precedent and use of a company's influence.

                                                                    [–]TSGNHLShark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Actually up until a month ago I was fine before a certain somebody gave an ultimatum to Face to Face Games and look at me now.

                                                                    [–]Narynan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Sigh

                                                                    [–]TSGNHLShark 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                    so many of the words in these sentences don't make sense to me. "We believe" and "known thief" for starters. How would one exactly "fix that image" Arthur? You're just stirring the pot and not adding anything useful or better yet helpful to this situation.

                                                                    [–]Level 3 Judgeubernostrum[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    FYI to people reporting this comment: as far as I can tell, /u/ahalavais is fairly open about his identity on reddit (as, for that matter, am I). So the above comment is not, in my view, a personal information post.

                                                                    [–]Level 2 Judgeahalavais 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    Indeed, I am ahalavais prettying everywhere, and have been since before the WWW was a thing. Pretty sure most people know who I am on here.

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                                                                      [–]elayc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      [[Stolen Goods]]

                                                                      [–]MTGCardFetcher 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      Stolen Goods - Gatherer, MC, ($)
                                                                      [[cardname]] to call - not on gatherer = not fetchable

                                                                      [–]HydraCord 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      /u/LSV_ Maybe you could help out with this?

                                                                      [–]Strichnine -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                      Can I take this opportunity to say I would love to own the original of Demonic Tutor, unholy strength, time elemental, and shivan dragon. If anyone knows who has those I would love to purchase them.

                                                                      [–]defenestr8[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                      The owner of Shivan Dragon is known. He is not selling.

                                                                      [–]Strichnine 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                      Yeah, it wouldn't let me even msg the owner

                                                                      [–]defenestr8[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                      I wouldn't bother. He seems to want to take his Alpha pieces to the grave.

                                                                      [–]Strichnine 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                      I'd feel the same way I'm sure...

                                                                      On a side note, why am i being down voted?

                                                                      Reddit kind of fucking sucks sometimes

                                                                      [–]chikin_llama 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                      I'm not sure but if I had to guess its because it sounded like you wanted to badger someone who had already made their stance on the topic known.

                                                                      [–]KitchitiKipi 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                      Reddit is weird. Sometimes i get downvoted for actual discussion comments like yours, other times i get upvoted for the stupidest shit. ¯\ (ツ )/¯

                                                                      [–]nipplelightpride 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      It's like reddit is full of different people with differing opinions!

                                                                      [–]yggdrasiliv 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                      No, reddit is me and one other guy with a whole bunch of alts.

                                                                      [–]Zenehre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      Everybody but you is a bot.

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                                                                        [–]timebeing 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        plus a few of those piece would run 5 figures or more each, so saying i like to buy 30k+ of art on a random reddit thread, I think a lot of people just think you're trolling.

                                                                        [–]SIR_FURT_WIGGLEPANTS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        You have to wait more than an hour for that.

                                                                        [–]babyrhino 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        I have a friend that has tried to get it from him. He ain't selling for anything.

                                                                        [–]Warmag2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        To be honest, I wouldn't either, unless the sum was astronomical.

                                                                        (edit) I wish I owned a piece of Magic art... All the ones I really like are super expensive.

                                                                        [–]mikelinnemann 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Plenty of art can be bought for $400, it just isn't Shivan Dragon.

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