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Marriage/DivorceSuzanne Venker: "Why men won't marry you." (foxnews.com)

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[–]The_Nameless_Mist 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (21子コメント)

It's not just marriage.

Men have lost virtually all of their legal protections around relationships as a whole, so there's literally no angle or state they can exist in where they are even reasonably safe from outright exploitation.

Prenups are iffy. Legal separation is iffy. Years and years of post divorce living are iffy. There's literally no time period or amount of distance, legal contract or legal status, that can truly be said to protect a man's assets from being taken unfairly for alimony.

Same thing goes with child support. When you can be held to child support if you're underage or have been raped, if your sperm has been stolen, if the kid isn't even yours, and there's no legal protection if you're destitute or homeless and that debt will follow you everywhere, you have literally no angle to protect yourself or a legal status where you're protected.

Same thing with basic sex. If she goes to your room, agrees to sex, says a verbal "yes", and you've got other angles of proof indicating that she's had sex willingly, but she changes her mind or reframes it post event ... you can lose your schooling, lose your reputation and lose your employment.

And finally, fatherhood. If being a law abiding citizen, decent Dad, willing, and even capable isn't enough to guarantee that you will have access and legal decision making around your children, and even exceptional fathers are seeing their children taken away for unsupportable reasons, there's literally no legal state shy of her being a criminal or drug addict where a man can truly guarantee fatherhood. Even those have had exceptions in the law. Fuck, even paying some surrogate to pop out a child for you with a contract so that you can be a father on your own terms isn't iron clad. She can reneg and whether you end up with that kid depends on the mood of the state and the laws in place at the time.

So, why should men get involved in ANY OF IT?

[–]chortle-guffaw 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You forgot the one where the guy had been divorced for 25 years and his ex sued him for alimony and won. After the divorce, it may never end.

[–]chortle-guffaw 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also the one in North Carolina recently where the wife divorced the man, gets a ton of alimony (even though alimony for cheaters is specifically forbidden in NC), took the house the husband inherited, leaving the man penniless and homeless.

Family law seems to be totally up to the whim of the judge, not based on case law. It usually seems to go in favor of the woman.

[–]adidasimwearing 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is an excellent point. In fact it caused me some slight personal reflection in as far as mixing with females and all things legal. I have a large home and frequently rent rooms out--without really thinking about it much I will say that is has been exclusively men that I rent to. At work I won't be alone with a woman in any room I'm in. Very unfortunately I am in a constant distrust of any female's motives to be around me and I won't have it save for short over night stays or those occasions when I'm at a hotel or her place. This probably says more about me and trust issues but it also speaks to the world I live in where men are being sued within inches of having a drastically altered retirement.

[–]wonkifier 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

there's literally no legal state shy of her being a criminal or drug addict where a man can truly guarantee fatherhood

Those aren't guarantees, BTW

[–]meshnet_user 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

She would have to literally do a line of coke on the bench before a judge would consider her unfit to have custodial rights to her kids.

It's not a guarantee even then.

[–]Il128 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My X showed up to court so fucking drunk she couldn't stand up... She still got full custody. Her lawyer just said she was ill... Judge went right along.

[–]GratefulUser 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right, because he (or the invisible force of the Patriarchy) that caused her to do that in the male-dominated space of the Court.

[–]chortle-guffaw 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Everything you say is right, and the article is mostly right. I don’t think, however, that this totally explains fewer marriages. Maybe it’s a third of the cases. Most guys have not thought about this stuff and are no smarter now than years ago when the marriage rate was higher.

I think there are multiple reasons, different reasons for different people. I’m going to theorize on a few:

1- A generation has grown up with divorce as the norm. If you’re in your 20s, you’ve seen divorce as common. Either your parents got divorced or you had many friends and relatives divorced. You know that a marriage license isn’t worth the paper that it’s printed on.

2- Student debt/underemployment. Many are just too poor to date, or too poor to be considered worthy of dating by women.

3- Increased economic self-sufficiency for women. Women have always wanted to date “up.” Now “up” is higher up. You have a lot of women going after the few best guys and won’t settle.

4- A generation more comfortable with technology than real life. Would prefer to text than to talk on the phone or be with someone face-to-face. (I’m sure I’ll get disagreement on this, but it’s apparent to me that it’s true). The easiest way to meet someone is online.

5- Online dating. Fosters even more selectivity in women than #3. No longer limited to the guys in their town, or church, or job. Why settle for anything less than perfection when it’s a swipe away? Why spend hours getting to know someone face-to-face when you can reject them in a second online?

6- Being single is OK. It’s OK to not be married in your early 20s, unlike years ago. Few are getting married just to fit into society.

[–]samtheredditman 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm a dude in my early 20s. I actually don't know one guy who wants to get married. When I ask them why, it's never anything except, "If she divorces me she'll take everything I own and the kids if we have kids."

This is before I even tell them my stance.

I think your first point is correct. People understand divorce now, and they also understand that divorce is not fair for the man in today's world. This is why young, smart men do not want to risk their futures with marriage.

[–]Bulletproofmonk 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

nothing is fair for men in this world nowadays.

your life can be ruined, you can be arrested for nothing more than a false accusation.

The draft is still in place, which only pulls from a pool of only men.

then there are the special laws, the lower standards for women, for the same job, and the "equal pay" for unequal work.

then you have the feminazis trying to (and often successfully) destroying the last "safe spaces" we have left, the internet.

[–]Swampn 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I speak from first hand experience. This is how it happens.

[–]Bulletproofmonk 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Increased economic self-sufficiency for women

This is primarily due to laws that have been enacted for unfair hiring procedures and forced changes to standards.

how many more women are in construction nowadays? plenty! you see them all the time now, holding the stop/slow signs. It's still the men digging the ditches.

and they demand and get the same pay, after all, they're all "construction workers"

There are also many, many special programs available for only women which give them a financial edge over men. Training programs, college classes and programs. only awarded to women.

[–]shinarit 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, the dating up phenomena is on point. Most women, no matter how they want to change or deny it, want a men who is stronger than they are. Strength can be measured in a lot of ways, but it comes back to: the man has to dominate the woman in some way. This is simply biology. And as women has the same opportunities as men (or more, with retarded sexist rules), it's getting harder to get ahead financially.

[–]ezetemp 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know that a marriage license isn’t worth the paper that it’s printed on.

I think that one is a huge part of it; the only reasons I hear for marrying are specific legal effects in some jurisdictions (for example tax breaks, inheritance). Commitment doesn't even come up because nobody considers marriage a long-term commitment, which makes it essentially meaningless while at the same time causing significant problems by forcing interactions between two people who no longer wish to interact when the eventual breakup comes along.

[–]mintygumdude 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This was a good reply to the article and detailed the main drawbacks of being a male in today's society.

(Basically, "This")

[–]Bulletproofmonk 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

no legal state shy of her being a criminal or drug addict where a man can truly guarantee fatherhood

Even then, I used to work in a social services facility, and i saw so many respectable men lose their children to awful pot heads and lazy low lifes. it was truly sad.

[–]ConfirmedCynic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well put.

[–]rKremlin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Decent men should leave the country and go where men arent second class citizens.

[–]WakingUpAlice -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

heck, even just talking with a women can be considered a "microagression". It's amazing how far society has fallen just the 7 years Obama has taken control.

[–]ndstumme 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Obama? You think this had anything to do with Obama? You're nuts.

[–]WakingUpAlice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's obviously not just him but its been accelerated because of him...

[–]daniel_ricciardo 123 ポイント124 ポイント  (16子コメント)

One of the biggest things that men want is respect from their wives. Loyalty, love, all of that is true. But without respect the wife is mom. And no one wants to marry their mom.

[–]redpillschool 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (15子コメント)

We live in a culture where anything moderately nice or respectful a wife could do (take care of her man, do laundry, cook, smile, be pleasant) are considered degrading for women. Why would you tie yourself to that?

[–]daniel_ricciardo 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I seriously dont blame guys for not wanting to get married. I think men in general want to get married and have a stable life, but women have gone mental with their demands. They want to be treated like queens without expecting the man wanting to be treated like a king. It's one sided.

[–]Brosona 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem with a stable life is, once the horse has bolted, you need som serious incentives to get him back in again, of which there currently are none.

[–]Wargame4life 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (3子コメント)

exactly what do they bring to the table that can't be sources elsewhere for cheaper?

I think too many women overvalue their own value, and we have seen that men are in greater numbers completely losing interest in any form of long term committed relationships

[–]yepyauhhuh 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Preach. I think (generalizing here) a lot of it comes from the attention they receive when they're young and attractive. They develop this ego like their vagina is some poker chip to be exchanged for kids. It's even worse in places like China these days where that's literally all the woman's life is - live off dad's paycheque until early 20's, dress up and look pretty until some wealthy guy comes along, marry him, get kids and suck him dry like a parasite.

[–]Wargame4life 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

they do get showered with attention and value in youth, but the problem is they assume their value either holds or goes up, wereas with every year past 21 they start to depreciate pretty severly. thats why you end up with picky 35 year olds who think they are as desired as nubile 21 year olds. the deluded fools

[–]yepyauhhuh 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is why I notice older 20's or 30 somethings are much more liberal in their sexual lives. They're starting to realize they're not a pretty little flower anymore and that they're BA in political science isn't going to hold them to retirement. So they get a little friskier to contend with the hot 21 year olds. (IMO).

[–]DevilishRogue 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not a bad article but it seems to stop halfway through.

[–]historyismybitch 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. Why bother numbering your points when there are only two.

[–]InBaggingArea 189 ポイント190 ポイント  (47子コメント)

I just don't find this at all convincing. At least, it certainly doesn't ring true.

The real reason is hypergamy.

Men are not just looking for sex and kids. They are looking for love, just as much as women. This assumption that men and only men want sex and men want only sex is just an idea from the traditional past. People conform to it to confirm their ideas of themselves, but it's just not true. Women want sex, but since they can only reproduce their genes every 9 months, as opposed to several times a day, we have evolved with more picky females.

What has happened is the sexual revolution has coupled with hypergamy and the breakdown of traditional marriage to produce serial monogamy in which women keep pursuing a relatively small pool of high status men at a time when the social status of women is rising. Either women choose equal status men or they run out of higher status men.

The fact that more men than women are left lifelong without marital partners backs this up.

But what about informal or common law marriages: so called relationships? No word on them

[–]DarkCircle 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (27子コメント)

I think it is a mix of women expecting too much with people just not knowing how to interact anymore. There was a previous post with an elementary schools teacher not wanting to settle.

Where on earth it is okay to talk to a woman you don't know without being a creep? There is no place where you can just get to low people and both the man and woman are not under some kind of pressure. Gotta just jump in to the void and break a few eggs along the way but it is not fun at all.

[–]iambecomedownvote 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (19子コメント)

Oh you can talk to women anywhere and not be a creep.

As long as you're tall, handsome, athletic and rich.

[–]Raidicus 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I heard a refreshing conversation between 3 women at a lunch place last week. One girl was talking about a "creep" who tried to talk to her at a grocery store. She spent long enough describing his appearance that her astute friend says "you know if he was good looking you'd have played with your hair and batted your eyelashes at him"

The girl laughed, completely unaware she was being poked fun of. "Oh of course!" She laughed, but her friend gave her the "think about it" look and the original girl back pedaled a bit.

Smart girls are out there and they get the game. I'd love to hear more of them pointing out the serious logical flaws to their friends, the same way men have been doing that to our dumbass friends for decades now.

[–]Blutarg 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was that woman! Just kidding.

[–]Raidicus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If that was you, good for you :) Ugly men are interested in women too, believe it or not.

[–]cashmunnymillionaire 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're all married.

[–]ezetemp 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's even an instructional film!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxuUkYiaUc8

[–]Wargame4life 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (13子コメント)

you can talk to women anywhere and not be a creep even if you are neither of those things, but are not socially awkward or odd sounding.

what most guys get wrong is they make it a bigger deal than it is, so when they talk to a girl they seem odd and weird.

the more you talk to people and the more social you generally are, the less creepy you appear.

I can talk to any women and not be creepy, just like i can talk to any man and not be creepy, but if i was talking to a supermodel i would probably be nervous and distracted and sound like a wierdo much more than talking to someone normal.

[–]Golnarth 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (12子コメント)

He's right. The only problem is any woman I talked to in line at the bank, for example, and took out to lunch ended up thinking I wanted to be friends.

[–]Wargame4life 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Hate to break it to you, but they knew and the "I thought you were being friendly/friends is them turning you down. if they were interested in you they wouldnt see you as friends.

if an attractive women chatted to you and asked you out to lunch and you really fancied her would you just think you were friends? or would you be looking to move it further? exactly

[–]Golnarth 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm not complaining either cause I mean what's my other option?

[–]Wargame4life 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

well exactly its the mildest nicest form of rejection its just less "efficient" and wastes more time.

but so does saying please and thank you etc, civility is worth the cost.

and i promise you, youd rather have all your time wasted than be some kind of social lepar who gives women the creepy vibe, ive met a couple of guys who women all unanimously and spontanously told me they got that vibe from, and they absolutely hate it.

[–]Thenewfoundlanders 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Can confirm, I'm pretty sure I'm one of those guys who gives off an intense creepy vibe and it really sucks. I think I hust over analyze things and put too much thought into them, so when I talk to girls I'm already wayyy more invested in it than they are. Or that's at least part of it. It's a problem, that's for sure.

[–]Raidicus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nature telling you that you want to fuck hot women isn't creepy. It's nature. The only creepy thing would be ignoring obvious signs they aren't interested. Getting rejected doesn't make you a creep.

[–]Wargame4life 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

the irony is that the less you need company and especially female company the more likely you are to get it.

my motorcycle got a flat once and i didnt have my phone on me, i knocked on the door and asked to use the phone, it was a woman who was home alone with her baby she let me in, and chatted to me, got me a drink etc, and let me watch tv and ring around to get someone to help me, because i was normal and not wierd.

if i was wierd and gave out a creepy vibe she wouldnt let me in the door, as a strange man asking to use the phone in 2013 (when everyone has a mobile) seems really suspicious and creepy

[–]garglemesh42 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm more fond of the "women typically avoid confrontation at all costs" theory of why they handle rejecting people so badly.

[–]Wargame4life 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

no believe it or not most women are decent and do care about other peoples feelings, and will do their best to avoid unnecessary hurt feelings, likewise so do most men. its the minority that are the most vocal so it doesn't seem that way. via media

[–]KingMong 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yup it's difficult, I have plenty of female friends, but they just sort of happened, trying to find one for a relationship is difficult, I know if I went out to bars and places I can pick them up, but I'm not really interested in that lifestyle or people who are.

The introvert struggle is real.

[–]boxsterguy 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Here's a truth that's not necessarily obvious: There are other people who go to bars and clubs to meet people even though they're not necessarily into that "lifestyle" or other people who are, but they go because that's a place where it's deemed socially acceptable to meet people. So it's very possible that you could go out to a bar, find another person with compatible beliefs, and then never have to go back to a bar again. But if you pre-judge everybody in a particular place without getting to know them first, you're going to end up with a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[–]hyugafan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i'll save my cover charge and booze money. the infinidecimal chance encounter with the perfect women probably won't happen at the Salty Spitoon.

[–]KingMong 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

ok so what are the chances of meeting a person who isn't into going to bars or getting drunk, at a bar? really think about what you just said.

[–]boxsterguy 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Try re-reading. There are people who aren't really bar goers, but who go to bars because that's where they can meet people. So let's say you do the same, and you meet someone like that and you hit it off. Do you think you or she will continue going to bars? No, because going to bars was a dating strategy, not a "lifestyle". Think of bars as real-life dating websites.

Also, going to a bar != getting drunk. There's no requirement that you have to get smashed, or even drink anything alcoholic at all. And I guarantee you that there are other people in the bar who feel the same way. But go ahead and believe what you like. If you believe only drunks go to bars, then that's all you'll (think you) see if you ever actually went in one.

And finally, you do realize that "bar" is a pretty generic term, right? There are many different types of bars, and they're not all the same. The people you'll meet at a local dive bar are different than you'll meet at a swanky wine bar, or a gastropub, or whatever. They're not all Friday night meat market college bars. And even those can be very different on say a Tuesday vs a Friday or Saturday.

[–]KingMong 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i have been to bars and clubs around here, they all suck, Central Scotland isn't exactly the place to find quite places, being drunk is seriously a national pastime, its not a stereotype, who have no idea how abnormal it is not to be drinking.

no where is different depending on the day of the week, i know that for a fact, people here get just as drunk on monday as they do on friday.

[–]rickyharline 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've done it fairly often. There's often people there who won't be drinking much and are delighted to have a real non-bar-type conversation.

[–]IAmACisWhiteMaleAMA 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Men are not just looking for sex and kids.

I guess I'm one of the rare men that does want a family. Always did. Dreamed about my wedding just as much as little girls are stereotyped to. When I was the smallest guy in 6th grade, I even worried about things like being able to move heavy furniture into the new house we'd have together, or carrying her over the threshold. Wanted to save myself for marriage. Two cars, two kids, couple dogs and cats. Big family gatherings on holidays. All that good wholesome stuff. I even imagined being a grandfather, as I was raised by one.

For me, it's just being ignored. And then getting frustrated because the types of guys women do end up having kids with aren't serious at all. Every other woman on dating sites is a single mom, and a few sentences in it's usually pretty easy to tell it's because they ignore guys like me. It's like, "Hey, I'm going to ignore the guy who actually dreamed of having a family his entire life, and shack up with that guy who has nice chrome rims on his car, a sweet tattoo sleeve, a reliable 420 supply, and lots of knowledge about craft beers instead". Who cares if that guy actually cares about being a dad. In fact, if he does care, and brings it up early in the dating process to see if there's matching goals for a relationship, he'll be labeled a creep. "Omg, this guy is already talking about kids!"

I sometimes wish I were gay or asexual. The only time anyone has ever hit on me or complemented me was when I went to a gay bar. I sometimes imagine going to become a monk or moving to Alaska to be alone, but those desires are still there. Sort of like forcing myself to like being alone, but I don't think it'd work. Being alone will still be frustrating and miserable.

[–]mintygumdude 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

As a gay guy, I feel wanted by other men, probably like how women feel wanted by men. Unfortunately, straight guys don't get that same feeling of being wanted in our society. I feel almost lucky to be the exception, to actually have people ask me out.

I wish both genders desired each other and made it a fair playing field.

[–]rottingchrist 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am eternally grateful to guys for complimenting me on my appearance. It's usually they who do so. Compliments from women apart from my long term partner have been practically non-existent.

[–]caius_iulius_caesar 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Men are the true aesthetes, gay or straight.

[–]Bulletproofmonk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And then getting frustrated because the types of guys women do end up having kids with aren't serious at all.

That's because women love "bad boys" so to speak. Women crave excitement. they have been enabled by social programs and shit laws to basically be able to do anything without fear of the consequences and without having to take responsibility for their actions.

have a few kids with different guys? Welfare! Child Support! they have figured out that they can have their cake and eat it.

finally, when they turn fuck ugly and have nothing to bring to the table anymore, they settle with the first schmuck that they can, eventually getting bored and banging some other guy because they don't want to do whats right.

[–]double-happiness 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The fact that more men than women are left lifelong without marital partners backs this up.

I'm not disputing, but do you happen to have a source for that?

[–]InBaggingArea 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought it was in the article itself, but perhaps I misread.

[–]Ransom_Stoddard 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Women don't generally decide to marry based on love. They will abandon true love in favor of access to resources most times, then when those resources are guaranteed and locked in legally with marriage and children, then they may go back to love (or lust). Usually the bad boys.

[–]Unconfidence 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you. I was hoping someone had the sense to point out that men not wanting to get married "because we can get laid more if we don't" is really sexist and somewhat offensive to romantic guys.

[–]iongantas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

did you only read the top of the article?

[–]mjociv -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The real reason is hypergamy.

This doesn't really work given the title of the article. If it were written to a male audience and had a title like "Why she won't marry you" maybe. The women this article is written for have already found their "higher status" man and are confused as to why he isn't proposing.

[–]MonkeyCB 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It doesn't change the fact, only the way the article argues it. Simply looking at things like okcupid studies have shown that the vast majority of women find 80% of men as below average. And if you look at their demands, it becomes perfectly clear how much women overvalue themselves.

For example look at height. Most women want a man who's 6' tall or taller. At 6' you just eliminated 80%+ of the male population. At 6'1" you eliminated 90% of the male population.

Now look at income. Most women want a guy who makes 6 figures. That's the top 10% of men.

So now you've got 90% of men eliminated for height, and another 90% of those eliminated for income, and you're left with women looking at the top 1% of men. But it doesn't end there, there's all kinds of other qualities they look for, like education, looks, status, age, etc.

[–]Xerkule 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm nitpicking, but height and wealth are correlated, so it would be a bit more than 1%. Your point stands of course.

[–]MonkeyCB 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Every inch adds 1.8% extra wealth in the US.

Average height in the US is 5'9.5".

So that's a 2.5 inch difference which translates to 4.5% extra wealth. It's a difference, but not that massive. At 6'1" you'd be looking at 6.3% increase.

If you're making $100k, that would be an extra $4500-$6300 for those two heights, and less if you were making less. Not really enough to push everyone over a certain height into success.

[–]mjociv 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Both this and the comment I initially responded to make several valid points about why marriage overall is on the decline. This article is written for women currently in a relationship to explain why their boyfriend doesn't seem interested in proposing. Every point made by both you and InBaggingArea don't apply in the context of this article because they would be reasons why she would not date him in the first place.

[–]Blutarg -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't blame evolution; it's women's fault.

[–][deleted] 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (1子コメント)

- 3. The quality of women today (and hence the quality of wives) is at its lowest point in history.

Really, despite the lies feminism has told women, marrying a pig-headed feminist is not high on any man's to-do list.

[–]Maschalismos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Define 'quality' in this case. Maturity? Self-discipline? Curious.

[–]haberstachery 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Marriage to the wrong woman cost me my reputation, access to my kids, time, money, part of the retirement savings, house, hobbies, tools, car, questioning my self worth, lost respect and a destitute future.

Marriage to a woman who respects me is the opposite of the above and she is rewarded 100 fold.

[–]350ZisBae 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or perhaps therein lies the rub. If women no longer expect or even want men to “take care of” them — since women can do everything men can do and better, thank you very much, feminism — perhaps the flipside is the assumption that women don’t need to take care of husbands, either. And if no one’s taking care of anyone, why the hell marry?

This is my favorite part.

[–]SIGRemedy 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I now know that you can simultaneously be offensive, condescending, and bigoted toward men AND women. Fascinating.

[–]Lord_Varys 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah this article is terrible. There are some valid points to be made but she just starts name calling and moralizing.

[–]Becquerine 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Men don't marry any more because old gender roles are being broken! Thanks feminism."

[–]Fraga123 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://www.realworlddivorce.com/

Read and be warned.

[–]Tarnsman4Life 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah marriage is simply a bad bet, especially in Illinois

[–]SlothyGaming 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (46子コメント)

I thought this article was very interesting. One thing they missed though is why men have gotten to this point. Sure it says because nothing is gained for men in marriage but it doesn't really touch down on the root of the issue. The main reason I probably won't get married is simply "These hoes ain't loyal." In my experience and seeing so much of it, woman don't settle down for one guy. They all want to be like the girls on MTV and such. They want to have their baby daddy, money bank, and several other cliches. For a guy who wants to settle down, it has become hard to find a woman who will treat him like a human being and won't just use him for one of the categories listed above. Thoughts on the matter anyone?

[–]Mech528 88 ポイント89 ポイント  (8子コメント)

My personal experience is that they're not sure what they want. Someone who's stable is boring. Someone who's exciting isn't stable enough. Someone in touch with their emotions aren't "manly" enough. Someone who is "macho" won't share their feelings. They want a good father at home, but the exciting affair on the side, then don't understand why a man wouldn't respect her lack of loyalty. They want it all, then get pissed off at the men because they can't be polar opposites of themselves.

[–]brain_candy 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And accepting that no one is perfect is a part of growing up. From what you described they sound like Veruca Salts. They demand and expect everything to be their way and for all their wants to be fulfilled. It's narcissism. Because it's never "enough".

[–]KingMong 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ooh I know that girl, swinging from mainly gym rat to sweet sensitive guy, for about 2 years after he first boyfriend of 4 years left, she looks like she's found a guy she might stick with after trying around 40, but she's cut all other men out of her life now.

[–]matrix2002 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

this is exactly right. women have been told they can "have it all". and it's the man's fault if it's not happening.

men blame whoever is wrong from a nonbiased perspective, but women have loyalty to women just for being women. it doesn't happen 100% of the time, but men are blamed by their spouses for being unhappy.

happiness should only depend on yourself not your spouse

[–]garglemesh42 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly right. YOU are responsible for your happiness. Nobody else. If you aren't happy, it is up to you to fix it. Not your significant other, not that cute girl or boy you'd like to ask out, not your boss at work. It is entirely your responsibility. Trying to push that responsibility off to someone else isn't gonna help. It is a lesson so, so many people still haven't learned. Women that feel entitled to marriage are among that group.

[–]IoSonCalaf 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is so true. Therefore, women will marry a guy who's a good provider but still pine for (and possibly cheat with) the alpha male who made them melt.

[–]dylanrush 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, Sex and the City

[–]tallwheel 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's an article on Psychology Today that says exactly what you wrote above. It's good that there are mainstream sources from accredited people who actually seem to understand these issues and try to word them as PC-friendly as possible.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201203/why-women-cant-find-good-man

[–]Mech528 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice source work. Its good to be validated, and know I'm not alone.

[–]strangersadvice 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I call it the American Princess Syndrome.

[–]SlothyGaming 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's... Actually really accurate.

[–]Bulletproofmonk 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I call it the disney disorder.

everyone's a princess, and handsome, rich, prince charming will save you.

or of recent "You go gurl!, you don't need a man for anything! Men are bad or idiots!"

Disney.

[–]IAmACisWhiteMaleAMA 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's one of the things that makes me wish I was still religious. Religious people seem to take monogamy more seriously. Most of the people calling themselves monogamous these days have no business doing so. An average woman can get 2 or 3 dates a week off OkCupid; I get that in a year. And women take advantage of it. I guess I don't blame them, maybe I'd change my mindset and do it too if I had the privilege of multiple people trying to get with me. But as is, I can't stand this "It's okay to see other people behind your back until I, the woman, decide when it's exclusive" crap.

Poly relationships aren't for me, but I have more respect for them than the average woman who claims to be monogamous, because at least they're honest and open about seeing other people. The girl who's already been on three dates this week isn't going to tell the guys about each other, even if she's dated each a handful of times. She's the only girl we're dating, but she's window shopping. Seems like a crappy way to start a monogamous relationship. That's like quitting smoking by buying a carton.

[–]SlothyGaming 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. A lot of these women "window shop" until they find the one they want. The worse part is that they turn it around by saying the man is an asshole for doing the same thing they are doing. Double standards are hard.

[–]OrangeAvocado 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The one point in my life when I was dating two women at the same time, they knew about each other. I did it because I'm not the duplicitous type, but it turned out well... a woman who wants to be with you will try harder when she knows you can easily replace her. It's called "pre-selection" - and it works for men. It usually does not work the other way, though. If a girl I was interested in wanted to date other people, I quickly lost interest in her, and I certainly would not offer any commitment to a woman who wasn't prepared to stop "playing the field." Men and women are just wired differently - big surprise, huh?

[–]caius_iulius_caesar 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You would not believe the things I've seen churchy women do.

Most of them treat their churches like beta-bucks dating agencies. Then they fuck around. And nobody has any problem with it, because forgiveness.

[–]Grubnar -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's one of the things that makes me wish I was still religious. Religious people seem to take monogamy more seriously.

Nope. They actually do the most "whoring around" ... they just lie about it. Religious people commit more adultery, thefts, and murder than non-religious people (atheists) ... unless you are talking about pre-marital sex and not adultery?

[–]IoSonCalaf 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Nowadays, everyone wants "the full package", which of course doesn't exist nor did it ever exist. But with all the media, popular entertainment, and the internet enlarging the possible dating pool to the entire human population, people fall into the trap of thinking they can get everything they want in a one-stop-shopping kind of mindset. With so many possible partners, people think they can find their "perfect match." They're unwilling to settle for the people they meet because if they're not perfect, well then the perfect person still has to be out there, right?

[–]Wargame4life 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (6子コメント)

its only going to get worse, as people become more disposable and flaky due to the perception of limitless dating prospects via things like online etc.

people think to themselves "why settle, when someone great could be just round the corner"

but thats what everyone is thinking, so when you find your mrs/mr right they will do the same.

welcome to the 21st century relationships

[–]IoSonCalaf 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Exactly. People are seen as more disposable than ever before.

[–]Wargame4life 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

which actually stacks the deck in favour of men, as sexual encounters are in greater supply but loyal committed support is in less suply.

hence traditional relationships where the woman provides sex and the man provides support/security can no longer be sustained.

i.e demanding entitled women have priced themselves out of the market.

its easier for a man to jump ship and find a new sexual encounter than it is for her to find a long term committed security provider.

one of the horrors for women is that they go from person to person and short term partners, where the partner gives a brief shower of interest and support and then moves on, and these women wrongly believe its because they are so valuable and popular, but its actually because the guys have no long term investment in them.

its the natural market

[–]IoSonCalaf 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Women are the gatekeepers of sex. Men are the gatekeepers of commitment. Right?

[–]Wargame4life 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

not everyone of course, but many people do have relationships which somewhat boil down to that yes.

[–]IoSonCalaf 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right. It's a broad generalization. But I've seen it hold true all too often

[–]Blutarg 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah sure, a guy who can't get to first base is in charge of whether he gets a commitment. Right.

[–]AltenbacherBier 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think our society has too much become infatuated with the ideal of romantic love, that basically marriage has to become something like an everlasting honeymoon. Its easy to blame the media and the rise of online dating for this development, but it has definitely something to do with that.

[–]NeesonsAndWilly 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think today's women or rather girls, watch too many shows and read too many books that glamorize the relationship. They think that everything is supposed to go according to what they saw on Friends. What they don't realize is that what they are essentially viewing are the highlight reels of a relationship, not the everyday grind of one. It's disturbing how quickly a date can go from good to bad just because there was one small moment of awkward silence during the night. It's become the man's job to keep them entertained 24/7 and if you don't then you are boring and no fun. They're looking at Rachel Green's character saying"Oh, that's what I want" and not looking at the actor Jennifer Aniston and seeing that she can't even maintain a lasting relationship.

[–]gmcalabr 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Agreed. No one discusses how men want an equal partner in love and care much less about being the sole provider.

The other qualm I had with this article is that it blames modern feminism for an ill effect of a good thing. Giving women the go ahead to pursue careers is a GOOD thing. But what we need now is a society that defines a relationship without antique gender roles. It's BECAUSE women are financially equal (if they so choose) that men can no longer be looked down upon for being a lesser financial provider or for not wanting to pay for everything during the courting stage.

I've been known to leave relationships if the person I'm dating begins to expect me to pay for the vast majority of food/etc. or expect me to solve all the problems or do the physical labor or make the majority of sacrifices while we're dating. That doesn't make me a commitment phone, it makes me want an equal partnership. I want love, but not at the cost that most women ask.

[–]double-happiness 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

commitment phone

What a great typo. I actually had to Google that and I found this.

[–]gmcalabr 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice. Damn autocorrect.

[–]garglemesh42 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kinky.

[–]Bulletproofmonk 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

absolutely correct on those points.

women crave excitement, and once her man that was once the jewel of her eye is hers, she starts to get bored. Women have been taught nowadays that being a homemaker is oppression, regardless of how much it is neccessary.

If a man works all day, and the woman does not, then what the shit is she doing the whole time?

life has gotten so easy for them that they get bored anyways. dishwashers do the dishes, washingmachines and dryers do the clothes, pre-cooked dinners and boxed meals make things even easier.

then they see their old friends out partying on facebook and feel like their life is boring. even if they have kids they buy into the bullshit.

mind you, this isn't all of them, but the majority nowadays.

you can read about it on the other subs of this site, about how a woman will sleep with another guy and be encouraged by her friends to just before she's married to "get it out before she's tied down"

sometimes it results in pregnancy, which the guy that married her ends up paying for. it's sad really. and from personal experience, i'd say that 87% + of women out there have that attitude.

most of my friends that got married ended up divorcing, most of the time because their spouse cheated on them when the honeymoon period was over.

[–]mintygumdude -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think it's fair to generalize women like that, just as it is unfair for women to generalize about men.

Sometimes guys are in it for bad reasons, and sometimes girls are in it for the reasons you listed. These issues go both ways. What is better is to try and find another person who actually respects you and wants a true, intimate relationship based in love and trust.

[–]SlothyGaming 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you read my other responses, you would see that I am not meaning to generalize.

[–]mintygumdude 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think I get what you mean now. I guess we have different experiences; I see many women around these parts looking for a relationship that isn't just to mooch off the guy, and vice versa. I do think you're actually right about the "honeymoon phase" part; I've seen that too much around here, mostly from women.

[–]SlothyGaming 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for understanding. I know this isn't everywhere but heavy amounts of media and entertainment make everything seem like the honeymoon phase should last forever. It creates this bad idea that relationships should always be perfect and if they're not, then you're not with the right person.

[–]Mylon -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Women, just like men, can be selfish entitled jerks. This doesn't mean everyone is bad and you should lighten up. If women aren't paying attention to you, then the problem is yourself, not them. You know the old adage, "Attractive, sane, single, pick two." Well, you only get what you bring to the table yourself. Improve yourself and you can have all three.

The real reason to be scared of marriage is the biased courts.

[–]ChrisAshtear 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I heard attractive, sane and smart

[–]IceBunz 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

An anwser other than "because they are pigs"?? Interesting.

[–]AWReezy 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Two words: Al Bundy.

[–]Tmomp 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The article acts like marriage is for women who want babies to trap men with because they don't. And that men want sex more than women.

Men love kids. Women love sex.

People not getting married is not just men refusing something they don't like. Women are also not getting married.

[–]SlothyGaming 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But didn't you hear? Men who love kids and are good with kids are all molesters!
Seriously though, I was thinking about becoming an elementary teacher because I love teaching kids and listening to kids and their wild ideas. I can't do that now because "guys are only after sex."

[–]BopIdol 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hate kids, but that's just me. I know guys that want kids.

[–]Grubnar 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought this was an interesting comment:

" since women can do everything men can do and better, thank you very much, feminism"

And no-one thinks to look at the converse of that statement.

Back in the day, it took a team effort to get a husband out the door looking presentable to go to work. There were manuals on housewifely tasks - cooking, cleaning, mending, minding the kids. It really was a full-time job. A man needed a wife, and a woman needed a husband simply to function as a member of society at all.

Household electrification, the power loom, and compulsory schooling ended that. "The Female Eunuch", that feeling of emasculation that women were beginning to feel in the 50's and 60's is precisely about a gender that had lost its role in life. We see that these triumphant declarations that there is no role for men anymore, that men are now superfluous, are mere projection

A man these days does not need a wife. There is only one thing a wife can give man that he cannot get any other way - legitimate children. The changes to family law in the past 50 years means that even that is no longer a possibility - the children primarily belong to the wife and she takes them with her when she leaves.

The ancient bargain between the sexes - the fruit of his labour for the fruit of her labour - is no longer in effect. Marriage is over.

[–]bsutansalt 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Every girl who wants kids and marriage some day should read the following when they're ~17 before they fuck up their lives:

https://dontmarry.wordpress.com/2009/01/22/feminisms-terrible-blunder/

and

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/03/marry-him/306651/

[–]Razvedka 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The first link is a great article, but I have a pretty serious problem with it.

The associated cost of having children at "early ages" (early 20s) is an enormous problem for my generation. She advocates "having children early!" but who on earth would be stupid enough to do this? With what money would one raise and properly care for these children?

Who would be footing the bill? This 20 something female who opted to have kids first and career 'later after they'd grown up'?

No, it will be the young man she's decided to stay with. Given the current financial situation of my generation, that's absurd. Look at real wage growth in the past three decades, as well as educational costs. Her argument makes sense if it was written in the 70's or 80's. But it was written in 2005.

Read this paragraph and try not to smack yourself in the head:

"Another woman had her first child at age 19 and then twins two or three years later. When the kids were all in school, she started working part-time. At one point she worked in a consignment shop, and felt the owner was making some bad business decisions. At around age 45, with the kids out of college, she opened her own consignment shop. Now, a little over a decade later, she’s making almost $200,000 a year and looks great."

So by 23 this 'woman she knows' had 3 kids. Her first was when she was 19. At the end of this story, doing some basic math, we know that she's 55 years old. Which means that the female in question was born in roughly 1950. She had her first child in 1969.

Anyone see the problem here?

To top it off, marriage is in shambles and a complete joke for men. No offense, but you would have to be stupid as a male in the 21st century to marry and raise children when you're in your early 20s- let alone 19.

[–]tallwheel 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why not marry a guy 10 years older than her? There's a reason why this was common in a lot of societies historically. A financially established man with a woman in her reproductive prime is a solid base for a family.

[–]Razvedka 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thats the only real option.

But marriage is still a stupid idea for us men, and the more that realize this the less likely she will be to ever marry.. because he's the one with everything to lose (money, children, etc).

[–]Blutarg 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

When should women have children? When they're 35 and their fertility is plummeting? That's like saying is you want to be a pro ballplayer you should wait until you're 30s.

[–]Razvedka 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Explain to me where the money for these children will come from?

Why should a male consign himself to this fate? Especially if he's young? Especially given the state of marriage for men?

It's about pragmatism. What she's saying made sense decades ago. Not in 2005, not in 2015.

[–]Lord_Varys 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a real discussion to be had here but this article is shit.

[–]8088XT8BIT 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Marriage isn't worth the risk. Heads the wife wins and tails the husband loses. Should he cheat she gets everything, if she cheats she gets everything. I don't think paternity deception / fraud was mentioned, which is one the main reasons that marriage isn't worth the risk. Husbands not the real daddy .. Hospitals & various Medical Facilities have know this is fairly common and have known so for years. They've simple been tossing out the information and not telling the husbands. The husband is and will always be the big loser in marriage.

The Marxist Wifey Courts consider the husband an evil person if he wants to do a dna paternity test. They will reward cheating wives. How dare he not trust his wife. Even if she is a cheater. Remember the case where the female judge presiding over a certain paternity case, had done the same thing to her husband? Of course the husband in the case was eventually railroaded.

A lot of (supposed) dads are buying kits and testing themselves and the kids. This should be done at birth time of all children. If it was people would have to be more responsible and careful. It could even be done before birth.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/fathers-demand-mandatory-paternity-testing/story-e6frg6nf-1226006586479

On another site I've received plenty of private messages from both husbands & wives on paternity deception / fraud. Many hate messages (from women) over bringing it up so often and so on. The men often tell me they are going to test and / or have tested. Quite a few of them have given me results. Husbands should always test.

At the end of the day .. DNA Paternity Testing .. Reveals the Truth! If they are not going to bring this in so all fathers / husbands can know for sure, then men need to ask for it to be done prior to birth, or buy at kit as soon as the baby is born. No signing any baby's birth-certificate until the he is proven the biological father. Husbands & Boyfriends shouldn't take the risk, the cost are to high. The dangers far out weigh the benefits.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/six-10-who-take-dna-1811311

www.avoiceformen.com/allnews/women-50-would-lie-about-paternity-while-42-would-lie-about-being-on-birth-control

Paternity Fraud: What Would You Do?

www.shrink4men.com/2012/04/03/paternity-fraud-what-would-you-do/

www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6D2UmE7Yd8

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/fathers-demand-mandatory-paternity-testing/story-e6frg6nf-1226006586479

www.paternityfraud.com

Shame Scandal ...

www.angryharry.com/reShameandScandal.htm

www.angryharry.com/esPaternityFraud.htm

[–]Deefry 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Snapshot

[–]Nevek_Green 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was surprisingly classy and touched on a very truthful aspect of the situation that most publications ignore. Not perfect since it opened with men want sex and are selfish, but past that there is a good heart of the matter. My brother and I look at marriage as a system that will exploit us and screw us. With Feminism poluting the minds of so many people leaving out any notion of respect, love, or commitment and a society readily willing to tell you to just roll over and die, you don't matter. There is no reason to even consider marriage or for that matter even dating given the paternity issues in this country.

[–]Il128 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"What exactly does marriage offer men today? “Men know there’s a good chance they’ll lose their friends, their respect, their space, their sex life, their money and — if it all goes wrong — their family,” says Helen Smith, Ph.D., author of "Men on Strike." “They don’t want to enter into a legal contract with someone who could effectively take half their savings, pension and property when the honeymoon period is over.Men aren’t wimping out by staying unmarried or being commitment phobes. They’re being smart.”"

Actually, for me it was all that plus more than half of what I earn.

[–]Amunium 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The article seems based on the assumption that if marriage rates are down, it means relationship rates are down.
I don't know how Britain is in that regard, but if it's anything like here in Denmark, much of the decline in marriage is simply because people don't see a reason to get married. Marriage is mainly because of tradition and religion, and lots of couples simply forgo it - but that doesn't mean they love each other any less or that their relationship is any different.

There might still be a point in there, but you can't just look at marriage rates and make conclusions like these.

[–]Kirkayak 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even with women working, two income families can often attain a higher standard of living... so some incentive to at least cohabit remains.

People need to be (and stay) compatible, in order for a marriage to be considered "the green grass side of the fence". I'm not convinced that the marriages of yesteryear exhibited any more compatibility than is present today... it's only that women have more upkeep options now, and divorce easy to attain.

[–]MagicGainbow 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

so some incentive to at least cohabit remains.

With common law marriages not really, sure your making decent money now but she can divorce you and get it all.

[–]Rafoie 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Woah. Wait. This is on foxnews.com? I don't agree with #1 fully. Its not really about sex. But #2 feels spot on. We get used and thrown away so why bother? MGTOW is becoming a thing and its not just in western countries either. Japan has the same movement in a different name, herbivorous males. Anywhere with over aggressive feminism really. Still shocked this is on fox news

[–]razikain 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Still shocked this is on fox news

I'm not from the US but I do know the reputation Fox News has, and I was slightly amused that a quite decent article came from it.

[–]ripple24 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not surprising at all. Conservatives outlets like Fox News (Drudge Report, Breitbart, even National Review) have for years advocated for institutional gender equality, especially when juxtaposed with left-of-center media like MSNBC, CNN or HuffPO.

Then there are the libertarian outlets like Reason Magazine, which often hit it out of the park when it comes to MRA.

This is because feminism is powerless without coercive government action behind it, so the people calling for limited government make for natural allies.

[–]leeber27 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like this article a lot, I felt it hit many points very well. Of course, with anything, it's not perfect in the sense that many men do look for marriage and love, while some women do see what marriage brings. Overall, great article!

[–]jeruka 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Marriage is an institution that arose from circumstances that simply don't exist anymore. Admittedly it was a necessary social contract that worked well but it has long since outlived its usefulness. So why still keep pining away for traditional marriage which clearly doesn't work in this day and age. Marriage has been kept up on life support for too long already. Just let it die and let us work out a new way of organizing the society. A one where men and women can exist as equals without a provider/dependent role. Let's face it. A housewife is nothing but a bum in a time where domestic duties consist mostly of turning some dials and pushing some buttons on male invented appliances.

[–]SwanOfAvon22 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm sorry but I think this is hopelessly naive. We have study after study showing that two-parent families are lightyears better at raising children than any other arrangement.

We now have record lows in birthrates, to the point that the only Western country replacing its current population with new births (rather than immigration) is America. We have widespread social dysfunction as a result of children raised without the bonds of family.

I think the conditions that made marriage the bedrock of every advanced society are entirely unchanged. What has changed is society, and it's rapidly declining.

[–]Xerkule 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can have a two-parent family without anyone getting married.

[–]SwanOfAvon22 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the case in much of Europe, where birthrates have been plummeting for decades. The fact that we can have two-parent families without marriage or that we can have single-parents raise children without issue doesn't mean that the general trend hasn't been disastrous.

[–]jeruka 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The current legal climate in western world is such that no man should reproduce nor get married at all before the laws are fixed. Anyone who advocates for marriage or having children to men are being antithetical to men's rights. There is no real pressure to change any of these misandric legal practices as long as men are still taking the plunge. That's why the marriage strike is the only aspect of manosphere that has garnered mainstream attention. No politician is gonna listen to men over women. Voting with our feet is the only real power we have.

[–]SwanOfAvon22 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

100% agree. Marriage in our current climate, within its current legal framework, is something to be avoided. But that doesn't mean that the ideal of marriage should be abandoned. I think you're too optimistic about our chances of re-organizing society. Either we will right this ship, repair male-female relationships and give marriage its due respect as a foundational aspect of human society, or we will slowly dwindle into economic and social oblivion.

[–]deadalnix 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You made me upvote something from fox news. That's how far we've got...

[–]Blutarg 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria!!!

[–]podcastman 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If only there was a book mentioned somewhere in body of this press release that I could buy to learn more.

[–]hotsizzlepancakes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Im in the category of should be married, but i wont because i havent found the right person to share my life with yet.

[–]When_Pigs_Fly_High 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My magic 8 ball claims, "All signs point to yes" that many of these comments will end up on r/niceguys.

[–]kn33 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The state of matrimony is not just ailing. It is dying out faster than a mobile phone battery

Well, I guess we know who's using an iPhone*

*or cheap ass android

[–]Crushgaunt -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think the biggest thing this particular article misses is that there are a lot of other contributing factors, the importance of marriage being just one and quite a few people are living happily with their significant other in long term stable relationships with no intent to marry.

It sounds mostly like an attempt to rile up conservatives against feminism based on the lack of conservative moors, to be honest.

[–]gunnyguy121 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

this is amazingly sexist on both sides

[–]chortle-guffaw 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

From the male perspective, we're talking about a rational decision here, weighing the upside and downside. As an example, let's say you decide to go to an ice cream store that has three flavors. One flavor will taste amazing. One will be OK. The third has poison in it that will debilitate you for years. Do you go to that store? Rationally, no.

The argument here is that you have alternatives, you could get something other than a cone that lacks the downside risk, or not eat ice cream.

[–]Weakness -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The article uses statistics to identify an issue, and then comes up with a reason for that issue, without providing any evidence.

It is a bit like crazy people that attribute everything that goes wrong in their life to "da guvment." Yeah, that something went wrong is a fact, but just because you say it is caused by da guvment doesn't make it so.