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“You’re Watching It Wrong” (wrongeverytime.com)

familyguy20 が 投稿

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トップ新着論争中古い順q&a

[–]Redcrimsonhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Redkrimson 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Monogatari is just smut that people lie about to look smart

Oh no, my secret's out!

[–]Wheat_Grinderhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Wheat_Grinder -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But come on, it's really good smut, can't you just let us lie about it?

[–]Soundwavetrue 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (16子コメント)

i asked some fans and got mixed results to start ubw or zero first.
So i said fuck it and now im watch both at the same time.

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Ey up there lad, someone likes living life on the edge

[–]Soundwavetrue 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (12子コメント)

sometimes i put 2 packets of suger in my coffee instead of one

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's it I'm calling the cops. This has gone too far. You're gunna cut someone with that edge.

[–]Banzai9171 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

What a monster.

[–]Soundwavetrue 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

sometimes when im eating chips with dip.
i double dip it

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Scum like you make me sick.

[–]Soundwavetrue 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

sometimes when i help a old lady across the street, i dont say have a nice day

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Where you or where you not raised by wolves? Answer the question!

[–]Soundwavetrue 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

some times when i rock babies to sleep while voluneeting at a nursery.
I dont burp them.

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There.... was.... a line!!!! And you dun gone crossed it.

[–]Iknowr1te 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

...black coffee no cream no sugar. convert or burn

[–]El-Drazirahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/i_review_hentai (incomplete) 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you also take a penny from the "take-a-penny leave-a-penny tray" ?

[–]scorcher117http://myanimelist.net/animelist/scorcher117 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

yeh the mixed responses put me off watching the show for quite a while,

ive now watched the first 12 episodes and im wondering if i should wait till the end of this season of UBW or if i can start zero now, because waiting is annoying.

[–]Soundwavetrue 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

im waiting on ubw while watching zero
both are solid and yes both majorly spoil each other
zero also spoils alot of the other routes
It really falls down to are you ok with spoilers

[–]mispeling_in10sunalhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Feaor 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, the real 'intended' experience is:

Read Fate/Stay Night VN -> Read Fate/Hollow Ataraxia VN -> Read Fate/Zero LN and then watch the anime.

After that you can branch out and Watch/Read/Play: Fate/Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya, Fate/Strange Fake, Fate/Apocrapha, Fate/Prototype, Fate/Extra, and Fate/Extra CCC.

And then of course you have to go to the other parts of the Nasuverse and Read Tsukihime, Kara no Kyoukai, and Kagetsu Tohya, then watch the KnK movies and then finally you have met all the characters you need to watch Carnival Phantasm.

Or you could just say screw it and do something more productive than getting lost in the maze that is the Nasuverse.

[–]UnavailableUsername_ 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (51子コメント)

So if i understand correctly:

  1. Person recommends to watch fate in the wrong order.

  2. Fate fans made a massive shitstorm because he didn't watched the show in the "true only way" and simply enjoyed it.

Is that correct?

[–]Portal2Reference 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Here are some highlights of his ask.fm from Fate fans:

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/126461619754

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/126096042282

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/124765365034

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/125887152938

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/125663560234

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/124700820778

[–]UnavailableUsername_ 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (3子コメント)

http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/126461619754

"Your ANN review is like a chimp wildly throwing his feces. Leave the advanced discussion of subtext and symbolism to those of us who have done the requisite study to understand Fate/stay night - there are a number of intelligent responses that completely cripple your amateur analysis of Nasu's work."

Wow.

This is the kind of fan that discourages others from getting into a book series or a show.

"Requisite study to understand Fate/stay night"

Really?

REQUISITE study?

Its a show, not a degree.

[–]zenoobhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/zenoob 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man... No. You are wrong too. Anime is serious business. You can't just come in and do like it's all fun and games.

You gotta study each and every hidden meaning til you die.

[–]Hekotarenai 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

tfw they'd focus more on studying a show than any of the things they learn in school

[–]AnonymousAgenthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/AgentOfArtifice 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

this is where people forget its just a cartoon. Sadly, fans will take their beloved franchises too far, i know i have at points. This is just another example of exactly what he was talking about in the article linked.

[–]Bobduhhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Bobduh 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Dang, nice work digging these up! I was thinking about using some of them as show and tell pieces for the essay, but didn't want to search back for them.

[–]Portal2Reference 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically what I did was sort your ask.fm by likes and took all the comments concerning Fate.

[–]Sougo 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (28子コメント)

To be honest, watching Fate/Zero before Unlimited Blade Works seems so much smarter to me. I understand that Fate/Zero is meant to be consumed after Fate/Stay Night, but without a proper Fate route adaptation, Fate/Zero is a much better introduction to the franchise than Unlimited Blade Works.

Hell, the Unlimited Blade Works anime has made multiple references to the Fate/Zero anime already.

If you are not willing to watch the VN, Fate/Zero is the best anime introduction to Fate.

I think it's a bit sad that /r/anime has it in the official FAQ to watch UBW before Fate/Zero. UBW seems like it would be quite confusing without context. For example, Ilya's entire role in the route would lose all impact, there's no reason to care for that character without understanding who she is.

In other words, while the Fate/Stay Night VN is THE best introduction to the franchise, Fate/Zero is the best introduction for anime-only viewers.

[–]FoleyX90 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you are not willing to watch the VN, Fate/Zero is the best anime introduction to Fate.

I agree completely.

[–]longliveaffinity 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Ilya's entire role in the route would lose all impact, there's no reason to care for that character without understanding who she is

While I don't necessarily disagree with your argument on the whole, through the Fate and UBW routes in the VN, you know squat about Illya. I hated her until HF when you actually get to know her better.

[–]AnimeThroway2117 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

through the Fate and UBW routes in the VN, you know squat about Illya. I hated her until HF when you actually get to know her better.

And? Is it not better to know who she is and not hate her the entire time?

[–]longliveaffinity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really. I think you're not supposed to like her until HF. Anyway, my argument wasn't really about that, it was about UBW anime being fine the way it is because that's how the VN route was.

[–]dakoslughttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/dakoslug -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not necessarily.

[–]Sougo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That is true but in the UBW anime they did add some extra anime-only portions to her backstory that were directly tied to Fate/Zero.

[–]kristallnachtemyanimelist.net/animelist/kristallnachte 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I personally recommend people ignore the first Stay Night.

it was horrible.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (10子コメント)

you and every other swinging dick

[–]kristallnachtemyanimelist.net/animelist/kristallnachte 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

So then every swinging dick recommends the WRONG way to watch it?

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

no, every swinging dick recommends people ignore deen's FSN.

[–]kristallnachtemyanimelist.net/animelist/kristallnachte 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Surely, that would be the wrong way, if ever there was one.

Skipping the first route?!!

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

i wish someone would give deen's FSN the phantom edit treatment and just excise all the HF and UBW shit from it.

yeah.

that would be nice.

[–]kristallnachtemyanimelist.net/animelist/kristallnachte 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

and then burn it.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

well, no, because then it would provide what we sorely lack: an approachable, animated fate route intro to the series.

[–]Clockwork_Platypushttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/platypusq 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would still have the problem of being really poorly animated. Even scenes that are otherwise fine and/or accurate to the original story are still really poorly animated

[–]melancholyx3http://myanimelist.net/profile/melancholyx3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I totally agree with this and this is also the way how I was introduced to the fate series. I feel that if I haven't zeen fate/zero, lots of things in UBW was unclear and confusing.

[–]Kloefthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Kloeft 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really disagreeing with you but.

In the VN you are not supposed to know anything and keeps you way more in the dark than the anime does, the anime is more action while the VN is more mystery if that makes sense, it also references Fate/zero because the only reason Fate/stay night happens is because of what unfolded in the that war.

The VN is more about figurering out what is going on and it has way more character focus.

The anime up until now only shows glimps of Shirous true nature, which works way better because of the medium, but in the VN they expose it way more often and you are constantly reminded of it but it only really shines through in the same moments that they do in the anime.

It is more that the stories are told very differently, for better or worse depending on your preference.

[–]tastymagikarp 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with you. But a lot of anime-only watchers don't seem to realize or care that F/SN UBW is only one part of a 3 route story.

So I've seen a lot of complaints from them about why characters they know from Zero don't have a larger or any role in this route. A lot of this negativity could be avoided they went through the F/SN story first.

[–]CloudMountainJuror 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I hadn't watched Fate/Zero first, I would have probably dropped F/SN within the first few episodes.

[–]aggie008 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (5子コメント)

weebs bein weebs

[–]hoochyuchy 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Less weebs, more irrational fans.

[–]zenoobhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/zenoob 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, poor weebs didn't ask for anything

They don't really need to, though, usually.

edit : can't English...

[–]AnonymousAgenthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/AgentOfArtifice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

speaking of weebs, that edit tho.

[–]zenoobhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/zenoob 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not weeaboo desu.

Pure brood Nipponese. Prease Respect my ancestols.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

weebs gonna weeb yo

[–]OavatosDKhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Oavatos 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's basically the principle example for the larger idea/discussion of how it's problematic the way lot of fans of adapted work talk about the works they're fans of to other people.

[–]xRichardhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/xRichard 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's not that it's a "true only way".

F/Z does spoil major plot points from Heaven's Feel. Stuff that's not addressed in UBW (which is why most people don't even know what's so bad about it).

How would you recommend someone to watch Star Wars?

Once that movie (or movies) come out, there will be no doubt that Fate Zero should be watched LAST. Why? Because you'll get a better Stay Night experience, and also a better Zero experience.

[–]trashcollect 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How would you recommend someone to watch Star Wars?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, there are many different orders for watching Star Wars, each with their own benefits.

[–]Vyleiahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/ar4can7he 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. 3 people called the Star Wars happening again, but let's be honest, it is just fans being fans. Airing order vs chronological order, both are usually fairly legit.

[–]El-Drazirahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/i_review_hentai (incomplete) 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How would you recommend someone to watch Star Wars?

You could watch it chronologically and enjoy the dramatic irony, or you could watch it in the order of release and enjoy the twist. Or the "true" way is to watch the original trilogy and pretend the prequels never happened.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

machete order for life, yo

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

honestly, with the biggest heaven's feel spoiler being duh, and having watched fate zero before playing the visual novel, it only turned the reveal of a twist into an anticipation game. "when are they going to drop that bomb?".

[–]xRichardhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/xRichard 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't consider that the biggest spoiler but whatever..

There's also the , the , the , the and the ... among other stuff.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

well, ok. so the first thing has been all but revealed so far in UBW. even though nobody actually said "derp de derr" out loud, if you haven't pieced it together, you kind of haven't been paying attention.

not sure what specifically you're talking about re: second thing.

as for the third thing, little hints are dropped about it in all three routes, but it's never revealed in the VN (that i remember - i could be wrong about this). that's one of the cool things about F/Z, is that this guy is built up to be an almost mythical character, and then in F/Z you get to see the basis of all those little hints and stories.

fourth is technically revealed but explained VERY poorly in fate zero. in fact i think it'd be best to have that knowledge, of how fate zero/heavens feel spoilers going into heavens feel because it riffs on a lot of that knowledge and brings it into clear focus.

the last thing isn't really... i mean as important, it's kind of just a side effect of the other stuff. i mean whether you see it in zero or stay night, one way or the other you learn that spoilers. nothing else really hinges on that.

disclaimer: IMO, as best as i remember things.

[–]Just_One_of_Threehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/OneofThree 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I watched F/Z first and im not having any less of a grand time watching UBW if I hadnt already.

[–]mrdreka 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well F/Z doesn't spoil the the UBW route much, it is mainly HF that it is spoiling. In the end it isn't the end of the world, I started with Deen F/sn->UBW movie->Fate zero->VN fate route->ubw TV, and I'm enjoying the UBW TV version quite a lot, because the movie was so utterly terrible, that I have forgotten most of it, except for a few things (I really wish I didn't know Archer identity, but since the movie was so terrible, I can't remember Archer reason for wanting to kill Shirou).

[–]OavatosDKhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Oavatos 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The way they're adapting it pretty clearly illustrates they support this way of watching it. What was once vague "stuff happened" has become direct callbacks to specific events in F/Z.

Besides, since they both work on their own without necessitating the other there isn't remotely a problem with watching it in the way with the most convenience to a given viewer.

[–]FoleyX90 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The way they're adapting it pretty clearly illustrates they support this way of watching it. What was once vague "stuff happened" has become direct callbacks to specific events in F/Z.

Basically this.

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly! Either order works, neither is perfect and will ruin events from either Zero or Stay Night.

[–]jmcm30http://myanimelist.net/profile/jmcm30 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, if you actually read any reccomendations, you'll see that most people agree there are no issues with watching Zero before UBW (besides creating expectations for certain characters). The huge issue is with Heaven's Feel, which is what people constantly freak out about Zero spoiling in the 1st episode.

[–]Dailivelhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Danvari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, how would you know that?

[–]aintgottimefopokemon -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Shh! You'll anger the weebs by voicing such blasphemy!

[–]Just_One_of_Threehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/OneofThree 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

oh shit im dead

[–]Telescopyhttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Telescopy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's Star Wars all over again. The viewing order threads always get pretty heated.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

weird seeing bubduh start posting on /r/anime, then move over to /r/trueanime, then get picked up by ann, then see his personal blog entries posted by someone else. congratulations dude, you've hit the big time.

[–]GenrlWashington 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I understand why some people would be all like "You have to read the VN!" when it comes to adapted from VN anime, but I don't understand the anger.

Back when I was single and had free time I 100% completed the Clannad VN. When I finally watched the anime I enjoyed every bit of it, and it felt like I understood the world a lot better.

Then after I got married I watched it all with my wife. She really liked Clannad: After Story, but I was upset to find she thought the first series of Clannad was kind of boring and nothing really happened. She also thought Fuuko was a completely useless character to the plot and wondered why they even had her in there in the first place.

I tried to civily explain some things as I could to her, but in the end it came down to her just having her own opinion of things. One I doubt even reading the VN would change. Going through all of it might give her a better understanding of the world, but in the end I could still see her holding onto Fuuko as a useless character in the series.

And then if someone isn't actually interested in the VN media, that makes it even harder. Like I am, I don't really have the time anymore. It's one of the things that has kept me from going through the F/S VN. However, trying to force someone to use a media they aren't interested in can go a number of ways.

  1. Probably the most likely is they will never actually use that media. They'll recognize your desire for them to experience it, but their overall lack of interest will forever keep them from it. I would say that even though I say I 'don't have time' If I was really interested in it I'm sure I could find the time to slowly work through it. A lot of "I just don't have time' excuses fall into this category.

  2. They reluctantly decide to use that media, but never really gain interest. So, despite having used the 'original' media that was suggested to them, they end up overlooking a lot of the reasons why the person suggested it to them in the first time and they feel like they wasted time on something that didn't matter. That is, if they actually manage to drag themselves through it all before prematurely giving up. These annoyed results for the person usually comes from the "I don't have time" crowd that decides they'll just give in because they're tired of people bugging them about it, type of attitude.

  3. Probably the least likely. They decide to check out the 'original' media, and realize you were right all along. They look past their original lack of desire for the media and choose to enjoy it and get as much as they can out of it, and they do. It helps give them a greater understanding of the subject and they can now relate to the suggesting person.

[–]angelcat00 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And then if someone isn't actually interested in the VN media, that makes it even harder

This. If someone recommends an anime to me but tells me that I have to play through the VN first, or else the anime is completely ruined, I'm just not going to watch the anime. There are so many shows out there I haven't seen yet, I'm going to watch something that doesn't come with homework.

It's a big reason why I haven't seen any of the Fate series yet.

I'm sure the VNs are great, and I'm glad people enjoy them, but that's just not how I prefer to consume media. I'd really rather just watch the anime adaptation.

[–]TeddyLoid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sadly this is all because people don't want to get into Visual Novels ;_;

[–]WS_Eulehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/WS_Eule 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

...and because DEEN completely butchered and mocked the series TWICE, leading to the popular opinion of anime onlies that Fate/Zero is objectively 196032x better than F/sn as a whole.

[–]UrdnotWrex_Senpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/UrdnotWrexSenpai 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Apparently I am watching it wrong also.

[–]aggie008 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (20子コメント)

hell, I'm not watching it at all

[–]UrdnotWrex_Senpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/UrdnotWrexSenpai 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I stopped at episode 5!

[–]The_Black_Jaeger -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (18子コメント)

You should change that. Like now.

[–]GenrlWashington 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've tried starting to watch F/SN stuff before. I can't explain why, but somehow I haven't been able to keep going after a few episodes.

It's weird, because it seems like good stuff, and when I see and hear people talk about the source material and such it intrigues me, but after a few episodes I'm just kind of bored...

Maybe going through the VN would be the best way for me to really get into it, but I just don't have that much time on my hands.

[–]The_Black_Jaeger 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe start Fate Zero and see how that is. You may enjoy it more. It has a more serious tone that F/SN

[–]_F1_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't explain why, but somehow I haven't been able to keep going after a few episodes.

It's weird, because it seems like good stuff, and when I see and hear people talk about the source material and such it intrigues me, but after a few episodes I'm just kind of bored...

The Deen effect.

[–]aggie008 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

but i just get so confused as to which order to watch them in

[–]longliveaffinity 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Read through this and decide for yourself which way sounds the best for you. It's a copy and paste so sorry that it jars somewhat with the context of this conversation.

The best way is to start with the visual novel. I cannot stress this enough. Once you start any of the Fate anime, the first whole route of the VN at least is spoiled.

If you are unsure about whether or not to play the VN, you could always try playing through the prologue of the VN (~3 hours long) to get a feel for the novel's style. If you decide not to continue with the VN by the end of the prologue, you can continue with UBW (TV) or watch Zero, depending on whether you wish to wait for the Heaven's Feel movies (see below).

If you have no intention of ever reading the VN, or have read the prologue and do not wish to continue with it, and you do want to / can wait for the Heaven's Feel movies (we don't know when they'll be released yet) :

Unlimited Blade Works (TV) -> Heaven's Feel -> Fate Zero

If you don't want to / can't wait for them to be released:

Fate Zero -> UBW (TV) -> HF (movies)

You'll get more spoilers the second way but it means you won't have to wait to watch it all.

DO NOT watch UBW -> Zero -> HF as this way contains the most spoilers and is generally very unsatisfying. If you do not think you can wait for HF before watching Zero, do not start with UBW, start with Zero.

There is more information here which I recommend reading, and then making a decision based on the information above.

Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya (a spinoff), Deen's Fate/Stay Night and Deen's UBW movie should be watched after all that, if at all. There is also a second VN called Hollow Ataraxia which should be read only after all three routes of the original Fate/Stay Night VN.

[–]UrdnotWrex_Senpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/UrdnotWrexSenpai 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I really have a hard time getting attached to the characters.

[–]longliveaffinity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

For which? The VN, Zero or UBW?

[–]Vyleiahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/ar4can7he 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I remember having a hard time getting attached to the characters in zero, so I stopped after a few episodes. And the VN, Shiro Emiya, because well. He does seem like a classic shitty MC. And since I was not sure of how to go about the routes and stuff, I stopped the VN early. but one day I will finish everything.

[–]Superrman1http://myanimelist.net/animelist/Superrman1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Shirou gets way more likeable once you get past the Fate route IMO.

[–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

i wish that someone would just rewrite the whole thing to tone down the "i can't let a girl fight" vibe and crank up the "if anyone is going to get hurt, it should be me" attitude.

[–]UrdnotWrex_Senpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/UrdnotWrexSenpai 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Any of them

[–]longliveaffinity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is, regrettably, a problem with all fiction. Just don't watch/read it.

[–]UrdnotWrex_Senpaihttp://myanimelist.net/profile/UrdnotWrexSenpai 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't plan on trying to anymore. I wish I could get into it. But it just doesn't keep me interested.

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]dakoslughttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/dakoslug 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Thank god I said fuck it and read the VN.

    That being said, I don't really get the whole "World building" that everyone says comes with Fate/Zero.

    There really wasn't that much...

    [–]jmcm30http://myanimelist.net/profile/jmcm30 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yep, the most "worldbuilding" Zero did for the Nasuverse were its references to Tsukihime, in Kiritsugu's backstory episodes.

    [–]SirPrizehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/magicswordz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That being said, I don't really get the whole "World building" that every says comes with Fate/Zero.

    I'm no fate expert but I there is a lot more worldbuilding in zero than what we have in Stay so far. The only reason I know what is going on in Stay is because I watched Zero. In Zero we had a background of each contestant and knew what they were doing for most of the time. The Grail war was more or less explained (But I couldn't tell you what the fuck happened in the end).

    Fate/Stay? Here we play follow the Shirou (or Rin) for 95%, and the episode a master/servant is beaten we get a quick episode about who they were before they don't matter anymore.

    [–]dakoslughttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/dakoslug 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's less of worldbuilding, more on characterization.

    [–]Arvediu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    God, so much people are pissed at this.

    Neither Fate/Zero or UBW are better than the other as an entrance to the Fate franchise, they are both decently good series, each with their own faults, although probably Fate/Zero works better as an standalone series, but if you want to get into Fate? Not much of a difference, people would enjoy both.

    That being said, the best way still is the Visual Novel, even if the Heaven's Feel movie(s) are good, they still can't compensate for the Fate Route, right now there is no real way of watching Fate except reading the VN, and even though it's not the best of the routes, it's absolutely necessary to understand what the hell is going on.

    That being said, the anime adaptations can still be highly enjoyable.

    [–]Whatstaunthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/whatstaunt 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Proper way to watch Fate: Dont

    If you agree with me dont forget to like this comment

    [–]Just_One_of_Threehttp://myanimelist.net/profile/OneofThree 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    classic /u/whatstaunt

    [–]Tabdaprecoghttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/TabDaPrecog 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Honestly? As an onlooker who hasn't touched any of the fate series I'd tend to agree. The fate franchise super fans are so obnoxious about it all that I'm sure I don't find myself alone in wanting to avoid the whole thing altogether out of disgust of the fanbase.

    [–]x3tripleace3xhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/x3tripleace3x 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I had the same reaction, more or less. But I picked it up anyway, I just distanced myself from the fanbase while doing so. UBW is pretty damn good by itself, fuck the fanbase and their obsession for the franchise. Watch the show, rate it (or don't), move on with your life.

    [–]PM_ME_UR_CODE_GIRL 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Same here. I didn't know fuck-all about Fate and just watched Fate/Zero first b/c it was on Netflix. I liked it so I went onto /r/anime to figure out if I should watch more of it...

    I came away with the feeling that I'd fucked up and ruined it for myself. So I didn't watch anything else until all the UBW hype changed my mind.

    Maybe all those people who proclaim their love for Fate should try to calm down about the watch order. It's really off-putting and makes the fan base look like a bunch of insular fanatics.

    TL;DR: There is no one true way to watch Fate.

    [–]_F1_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Proper way to watch Fate: Dont

    Ah, so you're recommending the VN then, okay. Downloading...

    [–]TeddyLoid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Why are you watching it then?

    [–]Whatstaunthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/whatstaunt 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    FIght me

    [–]TeddyLoid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sader

    [–]Soundwavetrue 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I asked before in the fate sub reddit and he said the same thing.
    id just ignore

    [–]longliveaffinity 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He just likes being a troll, don't let it bother you

    [–]scorcher117http://myanimelist.net/animelist/scorcher117 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    yeh i have him tagged as "likes to troll"

    [–]AnonymousAgenthttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/AgentOfArtifice -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've started purposely staying away from anything Fate related because i don't want to be grouped in with them.

    [–]El-Drazirahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/i_review_hentai (incomplete) 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is part of why we get hopeful about adaptations, and disappointed when they fail to capture what we loved.

    Denpa Kyoushi man

    [–]helloquain 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    What's my watch order if I think UBW is nicely drawn, but kind of boring? Do I still need to 100% the visual novel before I have a proper base to not love something?

    [–]GJB_93http://myanimelist.net/animelist/GJB93 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I stayed away from the Fate series for a long time for this reason alone. I didn't want to watch Fate/Zero because I heard it ruined some of the later routes, but I didn't have the time to put into playing through the Visual Novel. I had avoided all spoilers to do with the Fate series, and wanted to experience it in the way most people said was best.

    I finished the Visual Novel on Saturday after starting it last Monday, every route from start to finish, and then continued on to watch and finish Fate/Zero yesterday. Would Fate/Zero have ruined my later experiences with the series, with regards to the different routes?

    For one of the routes, Heavens Feel, the answer is that it definitely would have. It's the route which I'd probably consider as my favourite, it had the most impact for me, HF Spoilers

    However, that isn't to say that starting with Fate/Zero is 'incorrect' either. You're getting a different experience. I definitely didn't enjoy Fate/Zero after finishing the VN, whereas people who started with it probably really enjoyed it, because they didn't know what to expect in the end. If you've played the VN, you know exactly how things are going to end, you know who dies and who survives.

    There's a trade-off on both ends in that regard. People who start with the VN won't find Fate/Zero as exciting as first time watchers, and people who start with Fate/Zero probably won't get as much out of Heavens Feel.

    [–]montashttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/montas 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Can someone explain to me, what those "routes" are exactly? If I understood it correctly, they all follow events of Fate/Zero but they are different in some events?

    I have seen F/Z first and then F/SN. I am not watching UBW yet, because I would probably drop it if I had to wait for now episodes. I plan to watch it once it is complete.

    Go ahead and spoil me with whatever spoilers there are. What are the differences between routes?

    [–]GreyShot254 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    each route is very different i'l put it plainly the fate route is all about saber. and her quest continuing after Zero. UBW is all about Shirou continuing the dream of his foster father, to be a hero. Heavens feel is about the grail

    [–]rmm45177http://myanimelist.net/profile/rmm45177 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They're basically all different stories within the same universe. Fate focuses on Saber and Shirou's relationship and the grail war, UBW is the conflict between Shirou and Archer, and I haven't seen HF yet, but Sakura seems to be the main supporting character in it.

    [–]CMHex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I watched Fate/Zero first. Frankly, I don't see how it would have made any sense to do it the other way around. I had no experience with the Fate series at all, and watching Zero first felt right and sure does.

    But I personally don't care how anyone else does it.

    [–]Ionlyvayne 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The order I think that a lot of people watched the fate series (or maybe just me) was:

    Fate/Stay Night -> Fate/Zero -> Fate UBW

    I feel like this is the way that most people go through it.

    [–]Shiroehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Suigetsu3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Only the people like you and I who have been around long enough to have watched F/SN before F/Z came out. Which I don't actually think is the majority in this sub, or in general really.

    [–]MrUserSir 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I feel like, as a general rule, you should watch adaptations of the original material before watching spin-offs(or adaptations of spin-offs) so the original experience intended is maintained without any outside information changing it. That's just me though.

    [–]Gluzin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Fate/Zero spoils Fate/stay night, Fate/stay night spoils Fate/Zero.

    Fate/Zero is much better, that's why you should watch it first xD

    I tried reading the VN but it's super boring compared to the anime, so, my recommendation would be to watch Fate/Zero and then watch Unlimited Blade Works.

    [–]Shiroehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Suigetsu3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    x is much better, that's why you should watch it first last xD

    I'd think of it like this myself. Gotta save the best for last, lest you ruin the rest of it.

    [–]trillo69http://myanimelist.net/profile/trillo69 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    So he recommended a viewing order that ruins HUGE spoilers and still thinks it is a valid order? Come on. People will take your advice because of your position, so at least consider you've made a terrible mistake.

    I've watched Fate/Zero first, and there is no way to call it a good start. Sadly I can't imagine how badass should have been discovering Goldie servant abilities without having seen F/Z. And that's only an example. F/Z spoils pretty much every character's background in every way.

    I have enjoyed both yes, but I am also conscious of having ruined half the amazing experience both could have been if I hadn't messed up the order.

    [–]longliveaffinity -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Which implies there is a correct experience,

    Well, if by "correct" you mean "one that allows you to enjoy the greatest number of works in the franchise to their fullest," then yes, there is very much a correct experience.

    Sure, not everyone wants to read the VN but it seems kinda pointless to complain that you're not getting the best experience if you won't experience it to the fullest. It's not like other anime which are essentially abridged adaptations; the VN relies most on its narrative/plot over its story/plot, and so if you watch Zero first you're gonna spoil those reveals and take away part of the enjoyment. A bit like if you watched the Star Wars prequels first, you would ruin one of the best parts of The Empire Strikes Back.

    However, if you watched UBW first, you're missing out on a lot of the worldbuilding and character development that takes place in the first route. It would be a bit, but not exactly, like watching The Empire Strikes Back before the original; you'd understand what was going on and it would be an enjoyable film, but you'd still be missing out on a lot of stuff.

    Finally, I'm not defending anyone who criticizes people for not experiencing every aspect to its fullest, but I've legitimately never seen people get angry at someone over it and I'm skeptical that it's that big of a problem, considering the other kinds of shit that we put up with all the time. Did this happen on /r/anime or somewhere else?

    [–]teraflop 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think in this case, it mostly happened over at the ANN forums and on Twitter/Ask.fm. For example:

    http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2954316
    https://mobile.twitter.com/B0bduh/status/593111224277164032
    http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/125887152938
    http://ask.fm/B0bduh/answer/124700820778

    [–]tundranocapshttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Type Moon fans happen on this subreddit as well, though it often comes up in regards to Kara no Kyoukai or the other "supplementary works" (even writing that can set them off :P). I also had to report so many spoilers in the /u/AnimeClub threads for Kara no Kyoukai, after people repeatedly asked those people to stop, too. And while it's "anecdotal", I have more such anecdotes for Type-Moon fans than for all other shows combined.

    I've been around anime fandom for a long time, and even around 2009, to currently, I don't think I've seen a fandom as rabid (as a whole, not talking about specific fans), as Type Moon's. Some fandom has to be the worst, and in anime, it's Type-Moon's. Sometimes they're falling all over themselves telling you how you should appreciate what you just watched/plan to watch that they'll spoil the entirety of the material for you, or 2-3 other shows you might have wanted to watch. The "ensuring others don't have less fun than optimum capacity" (A.K.A "don't watch it wrong") is never as strong as with Type Moonies, and in so doing, they often remove a lot of the fun.

    Is it relatively light on /r/anime? Yes, but it's far from nonexistent.

    [–]longliveaffinity 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    They're by far the worst for being bitchy about watch orders, but probably not the worst over all. :P Most tend to back down when people don't like something, which is more than I can say for aherm other fandoms.

    [–]Painn23 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    You got a problem with the SAO fans bruh? /s

    [–]longliveaffinity 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Wasn't actually thinking of those but yeah I do, and you're the worst of them all ;))

    [–]Painn23 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I would say we are in the top 3 to be honest. I would say the fate fans, berserk fans, and SAO fans. Our solution to everything wrong with SAO is read alicization

    [–]longliveaffinity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Berserk fans? How come? I would have said NGE myself. Idek what to choose for the second and third :')

    [–]Painn23 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They're always saying the manga is amazing and whatnot about berserk and if you say it's bad they Gang up on you like savages and tell you no it's not. But SAO fans never know when to stop and yes that includes me in it

    [–]h_YsK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know about 'other Type-Moon fans' but my primary reason for advocating both the FSN and Tsukihime VN is that it's incredibly hard to enjoy or understand other derivatives to a certain degree. Hell at this point sometimes you need to check out the derivatives too to understand the main works. Goldie's line around episode 14 or 15? spoilers for the episode is a reference to his best friend. However without playing CCC or reading Fate/Strange Fake that line essentially has no meaning and is just hot air coming out his mouth.

    [–]Vyleiahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/ar4can7he 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Happens everywhere, including /r/anime. can't approve your Star Wars stuff but debates around that are pointless.

    [–]pazziu -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Watch F/Z and avoid everything else

    [–]Spideydayhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Spideyday 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Okay, the comparison that people are making to Star Wars is fundamentally incorrect. It is physically impossible at this time to get the complete experience of Fate/stay night by only exposing yourself to anime. That is indisputable fact where as you can do so with Star Wars. The impact will be different obviously if you approach Star Wars that way but in the end, you'll finish the Star Wars movies. Approaching the Fate franchise if you for some reason are steadfast on only watching the anime is kind of weird since the world is kind of predicated upon the way information is slowly unfolded over the routes. Effectively the intent of the Fate route is to set up the world and heavily characterizes Saber. After that comes Unlimited Blade Works, where we stand now in the anime. In the visual novel, you obviously are following Shirou and his impressions of things and the information you're exposed to is obviously limited to what he knows (except for interludes) but effectively that's that. It centralizes mostly around what's going up in his fucked up head, which is kind of hard to emulate in the anime but it's just an awesome job adapting what actually happens. They're pretty different experiences with different atmospheres. Now Heaven's Feel. I'm not going to say too much about it but effectively in the visual novel, it's really cool seeing just how Nasu effectively writes all of Fate/Zero for you without explicitly showing everything. It naturally comes together, even some of the key events are imaginable but Urobuchi added some more to complete the story and make it a holistic experience. So what's my point? It's kind of annoying as a visual novel reader when someone suggests that they're experiencing something optimally for them, when they don't really understand what they're talking about. Is there anything I can do about it, fuck no. Are some fans being extremely inarticulate and kind of overall retarded about how they're approaching it, you betcha.

    [–]familyguy20[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think I watched a little bit of Fate/Zero awhile back and then fell off from it. I picked up UBW and am liking it.

    [–]psiphrehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/psiphre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    fate zero was difficult to get into, for me, largely due to the double length infodump episode right out of the gate. it took me three tries.

    [–]AnimeThroway2117 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Did Bobduh just say F/SN was good?

    [–]ThingBeyondThings 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    He gave it a B+ in his ANN review

    [–]AnimeThroway2117 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Man, now ain't that some bullshit. After hearing Bobduh bash the show and say how subpar it is in every way besides animation and fight choreography I'm kind of disappointed.

    [–]h_YsK 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think people forget how harshly Fate/Zero was criticized as well on ANN during airing. I think the overall series got either a C+ or C- for animation from the reviewer or something like that (correct me on this if I'm wrong, 2012 was a while ago)?

    Then again that's usually the course for ANN. I remember the madoka criticisms up until the point the series blew up in domestic and international fandom where all those criticisms suddenly vanished.

    Can't push around the larger fanbases too much I guess.

    [–]MrPattywagonhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/MrPattywagon 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not a controversial opinion to think that ufotable is doing multiple things wrong every episode in UBW's second half.

    There are also quality dips in animation that become pretty noticeable outside of the fights where the budget is going.

    [–]xRichardhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/xRichard -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I didn't know Bofdbbyuuhh got staffed at ANN. Nice.

    Anyway, I think that a critic recommending Zero first is no different to a very invested fan recommending Zero LAST. But only in the sense that both ideas come from the same "righteous" feelings after all.

    But the invested fan has a knowledge advantage over the neophyte. That experience should be taken into consideration at least.

    [–]Vyleiahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/ar4can7he -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Bobduh is not a total neophyte though, he played through the VN and watched the Deen adaptations/UBW ones.

    [–]ThingBeyondThings 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    He played, like, 7 hours of the VN, and I don't think he's seen the Deen adaptations (that would seem appropriate to mention, no?)

    [–]Vyleiahttp://myanimelist.net/profile/ar4can7he -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Heeeh. Didn't know about the VN (haven't really gotten in all the Fate stuff), so I don't know how 7h fare into it, but I assume it's pretty low (though he did talk about "purple prose and pacing problems", so that's why I thought he had quite a good experience with it. Does 7h clear one of the routes?)

    And I mistook a user comment for his, (in which the guy recommended almost to watch F/SN Deen first if not going through the VN route).

    [–]SelfHatinWeeaboo -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    A good piece, but I think it demonstrates a critical lack of understanding of the Fate/Stay Night fanbase. "You're watching it wrong" or "You started with the wrong one" is just an easy way to dismiss dissenting opinion when you are too lazy or aren't educated enough to provide an actual counter argument. It's an easy way to hit the "I win" button and save face, simultaneously rationalizing that those hours spent reading mind-numbing explanations about silly magic systems was time well spent. We're talking about a group of people who unironically enjoy a work that reads like it was written by a 5th grader after all, so you have to understand that their approach to media and what they want to get out of it is probably vastly different than yours. Think about a bunch of chimpanzees huddled around a flashing box gawking at the pretty colors and you have an accurate visualization of what you are arguing with.

    [–]Cleverly_Clearlyhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Jinxmenow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Selfhatinweaboo

    I have detected a person who hates anime in the anime sub.

    [–]SelfHatinWeeaboo -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't hate anime, quite the contrary. I hate myself for liking anime.

    [–]Tabdaprecoghttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/TabDaPrecog -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sounds about right. Perhaps the worst fanbase in anime outside of illiterate shonen fans.

    [–]fzzzzzzzzzzd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Next thing you know, he's going to tell us that he ONLY watched and liked the Umineko anime adaptation.

    [–]illtimahttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/illuminatima -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    As I gathered from different comments and sub's FAQ, you should watch UBW first, because F/Z spoils some major events. Ok, makes sense. Then, what was the reasoning behind Ufotable's decision to adapt F/Z first?

    [–]galoisgroup 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    F/SN already had an adaptation at that point.

    [–]TeddyLoid 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In addition to what galoisgroup said, it's complementary for the Fate fans who have read the VN, so there is a large Japanese install base for it already. After all they're the ones that'll be paying top price for the BDs.

    [–]xRichardhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/xRichard 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    1. It was easier to adapt: translates better to anime, because it isn't 95% told from a single's character point of view.
    2. Easier to market: it was never adapted before, it's a "prequel" and both new and old fans got interested.
    3. It was a good way to test the waters for such a huge project. Ufotable was resuming their TV production adventures after a long time doing movies.
    4. There may have been legal issues related to license with that the previous production committee held (DEEN made a UBW movie not too long before they started to move towards a new Fate/ production).

    [–]OutZonedhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/OutZoned 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I probably did it in the "worst" possible order, according to some. My roommates and I started by watching UBW. During the wait for the second half we were so impatient for more Fate that we watched Zero. Now we're all watching UBW again.

    Honestly, I wish I had seen Zero before starting UBW. Everything makes so much more sense, from Shirou's Kiritsugu flashbacks to Illya to the reason why 90% of the masters are students at the same school.

    It cleared up so many things that were confusing that I'm enjoying UBW more now than I was before. I may even go back and rewatch the first half in order to pick up on the things that I didn't understand that Zero makes clear.

    [–]WS_Eulehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/WS_Eule 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    The thing that most Fate/Zero watchers still don't know/understand is that watching Zero before UBW is completely - 100% - fine. BUT Zero spoils like 80% of all plot twists and reveals in Fate and HF.

    That's the main reason fans get mad about people saying "watch Zero first". They don't really know what they are talking about but pretend to know everything. And I think it's understandable that fans get pissed at those people.

    [–]OutZonedhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/OutZoned 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You have a point there. Personally, I have no plans to watch the DEEN Fate adaptation or the HF movie, nor do I have an interest in reading the VN. Because of this, watching Zero first and UBW second makes sense to me.

    Obviously, other people may want different experiences and that's fine too.

    [–]WS_Eulehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/WS_Eule 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I have no plans to watch the DEEN Fate adaptation

    It's not worth your time anyway, so that's fine

    or the HF movie

    Err is there a specific reason for that? Because HF is the only "part" of the series that gives a real conclusion so skipping that without reason sounds silly for me...

    [–]OutZonedhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/OutZoned 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's less that I'm going to actively avoid it, and more that I'm not really dying to see it/don't really care about spoilers for it.

    Who knows though. I may want to see it more once UBW finishes.

    [–]WS_Eulehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/WS_Eule 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ah I nderstand. Well, it will be quite some months until the movies come out, so there is no hurry in deciding on that matter.

    [–]DasTales -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Look at this mongrel, not playing through the entire Visual Novel.

    [–]Painn23 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wow this is stupid. I would actually recommend watching fate/zero first to be honest yes I know spoilers are in fate/zero for HF but it shouldn't matter because HF will still be enjoyable.'

    [–]Cleverly_Clearlyhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Jinxmenow -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    sexism

    Why does Bobduh have this hair up his ass over imaginary anime sexism? What is his problem? Why does he have to drag it into every conversation? This is what happens when people who care more about politics than anime try to talk about anime.

    I've noticed this with somebody else, too. They had a blog about Fullmetal Alchemist. They seemed detached, maybe even bored with the show. It was very analytical. Then, remember that one comment that Edward made that made him seem like a racist? The author threw a HUGE fit over that one sentence. He seriously cared more about fictional character racism that resulted from a translation error than he did about the entire show. I seriously hate people like this.

    I know a lot of people like Bobduh, but I can't stand him. He writes every god damn article like anime fans are noble savages who peruse /r/theredpill and jerk eachother off in caves. He's the sort of person who non-ironically uses words like "problematic". He never brings anything to the table but pseudoscientific bullshit. I can't understand the appeal of him.

    [–]Shiroehttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Suigetsu3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    remember that one comment that Edward made that made him seem like a racist?

    No, no I don't remember this. What was it?

    [–]Cleverly_Clearlyhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Jinxmenow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This isn't the blog I was thinking of, but this is why people thought he was racist. It's really, really stupid.

    [–]Muphrid15 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Sorry, is there something you disagree with in the paragraph?

    And this gets even worse when it comes to stuff like charges of sexism in media, since inherent in that charge is the idea that fans who see nothing wrong with it are missing the sexism, and thus might themselves harbor sexist assumptions. It’s no wonder that talking about media online very often just reduces to people screaming past each other.

    If you call something sexist, fans might think you're calling them sexist. That seems like a pretty true statement to me.

    [–]Cleverly_Clearlyhttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/Jinxmenow 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    He's bringing it up because it's a thing he loves to bring up. Look at his article about Nisemonogatari. Look at his Kill La Kill stuff, where he basically calls it sexist shit. He's always like this. He has to bring it into everything.

    [–]Muphrid15 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Even assuming you're right about that, I don't see how that makes his comment irrelevant or uncalled for here.

    [–]tundranocapshttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Why does Bobduh have this hair up his ass over imaginary anime sexism? What is his problem? Why does he have to drag it into every conversation? This is what happens when people who care more about politics than anime try to talk about anime.

    LOL. Since we're linking ask.fms here, and some of my own asks about this leaked to Bobduh's, I'll link my answers instead of answering here. I mean, I already wrote the words:

    1. Why everyone is blowing up over Saber's dress thing? A show can't portray sexist things without being sexist? Clearly the show isn't supportive of Caster's actions..

    2. What eye-candy, dude? There were no malegaze shots or fanservice; the dress is meant as an exploration of Caster and ties into her identity. It was a pretty smart way to make Caster abducting Saber amount to something in terms of character.

    3. Look, here are some excerpts from the VN explaining her point of view: http://imgur.com/a/xgPxW She does it to satisfy her sadism and the story in no way supports her. The dress is not a "random choice" when it's part of her backstory, and that magazine is unofficial. F/SN is not sexist. (NSFW imgur link)

    It was very analytical. Then, remember that one comment that Edward made that made him seem like a racist? The author threw a HUGE fit over that one sentence. He seriously cared more about fictional character racism that resulted from a translation error than he did about the entire show. I seriously hate people like this.

    Pot, meet kettle. You're the one making a huge issue of other people having differing opinions and values than yours. Also, "psuedoscience" is sort of funny.

    Also, people who have problems with people using the word problematic, and also talk about people who have issues with what they consider to be non-issues. So ironic. But hey, it all fits your subreddit participation pattern.

    [–]Im12AndWatIsThishttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/teirce -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Yeah... I found Fate/Zero before I knew anything about FSN (and really before I was big into anime) and it's one of my favorite shows of all time. I introduced my friends to it and now we're happily watching UBW. (Masochism ahoy)

    I've seen lots of people talk about how F/Z spoils Fate things but I don't really think it qualifies as a true spoiler. As far as it goes, the only things I can think of are silly things like character backstory for the lesser explained characters so far: General Fate/Zero Spoilers. I think that's more interesting when you don't treat those things as a spoiler. UBW

    In general I think the knowledge that you gain from watching Fate/Zero (and the hype) greatly outweighs what little spoiler there may be... In fact I think it'd be much more confusing to start with UBW, as without all of the context and backstory a lot of things flat out wouldn't make much sense. Fate/Zero is much better at introducing concepts (even something obscure like a reality marble) than UBW has been so far.

    An aside: I watched the DEEN adaptation of Fate after F/Z and it was a complete and utter slog. I took over reading things from the wiki before actually finishing the series. It was so bad it almost turned me away from the Fate/ world.

    I have the VN ready to go on my PC and am waiting for UBW to finish airing before I start. I doubt my friends would ever be interested, however, as the english translations are not that great from what little I've played, and clicking through a story isn't the most enthralling of activities if you're not super into the lore (I am).

    [–]ThingBeyondThings 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    If you haven't played the VN you don't know the extent of the spoilers. People aren't concerned about it spoiling UBW, but HF

    [–]Im12AndWatIsThishttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/teirce 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I see. I went down a rabbit hole in the wiki months ago and have forgotten mostly everything, but remember some big things about each route. I suppose I just don't remember what I'm supposed to, which is probably good for now.

    Anyway, I'm not really in the place to comment on it, but those are my current thoughts right now. I accept your point as I am someone who is mainly ignorant of the route, and I'd like not to spoil the plot for myself any further for the sake of discussion.

    [–]dakoslughttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/dakoslug 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You only think it's mild spoilers, until you start Heaven's Feel.

    And you completely forgot about the fact that

    That is a MAJOR plotpoint in Heaven's Feel and by far is the biggest spoiler ever. Whatever UBW spoils of Fate/Zero is rather minor but what Fate/Zero completely a route's biggest twist.

    [–]Im12AndWatIsThishttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/teirce 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    the only things I can think of are silly things like character backstory for the lesser explained characters

    I don't really think that is the big twist HF has going for it. I went down a rabbit hole in the wiki months ago and have forgotten mostly everything, but remember some big things about each route. For instance about the only thing I remember about HF is HF Spoilers.

    I feel that someone who isn't going to read the VN doesn't really need to worry about those things and that they actually serve to augment the experience. F/Z AND UBW. I imagine that with Ufotable producing the HF movies they will slot things in accordingly and find a way to preserve the plot.

    Anyway, I'm not really in the place to comment on it, but those are my current thoughts right now. I accept your point as I am someone who is mainly ignorant of the route, and I'd like not to spoil the plot for myself any further for the sake of discussion.

    [–]dakoslughttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/dakoslug 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm not saying that the person is supposed to read the VN to care about spoilers.

    It spoils entire family life of that person. It also makes you completely suspicious of the person since it's supposed to be .

    Edit: my bad, you didnt want to read spoilers D:

    [–]Im12AndWatIsThishttp://myanimelist.net/animelist/teirce 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No worries! I knew that much already :)

    But yeah, my original point is that a lot of the watch order debates are pointless if someone is only going to watch the anime. I wish everything had been produced in a proper order but I doubt we'll ever see a Fate route by Ufotable, or a proper HF adaptation (I have low confidence in movies).

    [–]mrdreka 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fate/Zero is much better at introducing concepts (even something obscure like a reality marble) than UBW has been so far.

    The introduction is actually in the BD of episode 0, which also serve as a foreshadowing to UBW.

    [–]stalinchan -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    This is kind of related to it but Fate fan's/4chan threw a fit at another popular anime website guy for the same thing but in this case it isn't clear if the author is deliberately baiting/trolling for replies or thinking he's 100% right and can ignore people telling him otherwise. http://seventhstyle.com/2015/05/02/studio-deens-ubw-is-better-than-ufotables/

    [–]tundranocapshttp://myanimelist.net/profile/Thunder_God 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seventh Style is known for intentionally trolling/click-baiting to get views/flame-wars in the comment section.

    People flaming/throwing a fit at Seventh Style might be part of playing the game, because almost anyone who's been around long enough to know the site knows it for what it is.

    There's a reason submissions from that site are basically downvoted on sight on /r/anime and some anime news aggregate sites won't publish their things.

    The only good thing about it are the TV to BD comparisons.

    P.S. I think DEEN's version is much better than people give it credit for, but that's another kettle of fish. /u/Bobduh also never watched DEEN's show, so said nothing about it, except that people tend to say it's not very good. Unlike the watch order, there's much less of an "contention" on how the fans view DEEN's show.

    [–]h_YsK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Never link seventhstyle ever again

    Gawker media sites WISH they could clickbait on their level

    [–]jmcm30http://myanimelist.net/profile/jmcm30 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    it isn't clear if the author is deliberately baiting/trolling for replies

    Haha no, if you read just one of his Fate related posts, it's pretty damn clear. It's not even discussed anymore, due to being such an obvious troll. Prior to airing, they actually pretended to think that F/SN Lancer is the same person as Zero Lancer, claiming that their designs are indistinguishable.