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Qatar 2022 and Blatter (self.soccer)

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[–]Boliviahuazzy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (35子コメント)

Playing devil's advocate: But the United States refuses to sign the United Nations' "Declaration of the Rights of the Child". It "supports protections for children from forced labor, child marriage, deprivation of a legal identity, and grants both able-bodied and disabled children the right to health care, education, and freedom of expression."

Only 3 UN countries haven't signed it. Somalia, South Sudan and... the United States.

So just fyi, for those that think other countries are the bastion for human rights.

Edit: My comment is not to argue the Human Rights track records between the US and Qatar (or anywhere for that matter). Instead it's to shed light on something I'm sure more of the readers here weren't aware of; that the U.S refuses to sign a basic Human Rights treaty.

As a couple posters mentioned below, their reasons could be in the language or how the US Government/support groups interpret the treaty. For example, there are very powerful groups in the U.S that believe the government has no right to educate "their" children on Sex education. So they see this treaty as a document that would interfere with that matter, so they're against it for that reason.

In other words, the concept of "Human Rights" is so complicated that it's a disservice to bring it up here. FIFA is not going to delve into the human rights records of Qatar or any host candidate. Sadly, FIFA is about $, and Qatar is where it's at.

This is similar to the outrage during the Olympics with Russia and their anti-gay laws (which by the way, oddly not many here seem to find a problem with considering the next WC is there). The IOC, FIFA, etc, are not going to get into the politics of a nation. They see $, ratings, and probably realize that once the whistle blows everyone is (sadly) quick to forget.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (30子コメント)

USA would handle the world cup better and in a more ethical way. It just would and you know it

[–]Atlético MadridStingerc 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (29子コメント)

He's not arguing that the US would do a bad job, just that as far as the human rights argument, the US is far, far from perfect. Not a week goes by that you don't see a story about a police officer abusing his power and authorities refusing to do anything about it.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (28子コメント)

No country is perfect in this regard, but the US is one I'd imagine would be able to execute it pretty well. I don't see how some police officers that abuse powers is in any way relevant

[–]BarcelonaiVarun -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I don't see how some police officers that abuse powers is in any way relevant

How is it not relevant to the question on Human rights.

It comes under the Abuse of power by the authorities and its a violation of legal and human rights.

Your first line was more accurate and apt

No country is perfect

and try to leave it at that instead of digging a hole for yourself with trying to engineer an argument which boils down to, Our shit stinks less than their shit.

No, it doesn't.

Which is why this is not used as a criteria for hosting such global events as Olympics and WC, because its childish and naive and most importantly impractical.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (18子コメント)

I'm wondering how the police officer thing affects the world cup specifically, not just general human rights. Also, I think that Qatar's record for human rights is shit, and I'm saying the US is much better in this regard. This is not a lesser of 2 evils argument, I think you misunderstood me. I'm saying Qatar is the 'evil' and the US is a much much better location to host the world cup. The US's 'shit' doesn't stink, its one of the most developed countries in the world

[–]LibyaAlGamaty -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Give me a break. There is absolutely no way that the US has a better human rights record than Qatar. Not even close.

Murder of innocent civilians across the world through drone strikes.

Guantanamo

Spying across the world.

Police brutality

Etc etc etc

And how do you know that the US would organize the world cup better? I assume you've been following every detail of Qatars world cup preparations? Of course you haven't, so there is no way you can tell that the US would organize a better tournament. Qatar is actually pouring billions into this tournament, more than any host nation ever.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Please tell me you're trolling

[–]LibyaAlGamaty -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I hope you're trolling if you're trying to say that killing thousands of innocent people by bombing them is worse than poor labor conditions.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

gr8 b8 m8

[–]BarcelonaiVarun -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

The thread chain context was to do with human rights across the board between countries, it was not just limited to WC in this comment chain. Which is police abuse is human rights abuse.

And anyone who uses the lines. XYZ's shit don't stink. Is as a matter of fact full of shit himself.

There is no fucking shit which doesn't stink, that is why its called shit in the first place.

And killing innocent women and children counts as really really bad shit. Its not shit that doesn't stink. Grow the fuck up.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I don't understand what you're talking about

'XYZ's shit don't stink. Is as a matter of fact full of shit himself'

So I can't defend anything if you deem it shit? You started the whole shit analogy and I'm not really getting it. I never meant to insult you, you don't have to resort to personal insults

[–]BarcelonaiVarun -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

You can defend things within context not by using hypocritical stances.
The shit analogy is used to highlight that if its shit, it will stink, irrespective of who its from or where its from.

Qatar has human rights issues and as does the US. Its hypocritical to negate or downplay one or the other with clever word play and margins and what not.

Human rights doesn't work like that. One can't argue along the lines that US is better than Qatar because rampant Police abuse is lesser crime than over worked Labor/accidental deaths.

If the argument then goes to not just overworked labor/accidental death but real abuse of workers and what not then you ratchet it up for the US as well, with Police abuse and shooting deaths.

You see where we are going, basically no where, its a He-said she said, this and that and bla bla back and forth.

And we haven't even touched the War abuses. But lets forget that for the time being.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Funny how the police abuse in America has all of a sudden become 'rampant police abuse', and I'm the one with clever word play.

Do you want to talk about Labour laws in Qatar? Kafala system? huge inequalities between the genders? How flogging is an accepted punishment? Womans testimony is worth less than a man's? You know, while we're talking about things irrelevant to the world cup

[–]joepo32 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

But one country does have better human rights than the other. In Qatar no one goes to jail when someone dies. In the US cops go to jail if they murder someone. Or let them die in there custody for neglect. Slave labor is also one of the worst humans rights violation. Behind encampment and mass executions. Countries are better of human rights wise than others to lump them all into one group because they have mishaps is a joke and utter BS.

In America people aren't going to be held captive to get a job done. They can't work in terrible conditions. You can't hire children. You can't pay people basically nothing. Some countries are better off for people. To claim they are the same is naive.

[–]joepo32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry to burst your bubble but some shit doesn't stink. Scientifically speaking

[–]Atlético MadridStingerc -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Because it's the prime excuse most people give as to why the World Cup should be taken from Qatar. It seems at this point you are just feigning innocence because the same argument used against Qatar is just as relevant when talking about the US.

[–]Bayern Münchengotziller 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the US has just as bad human rights as Qatar because a few power hungry racist cops have killed people out of all the police officers in our entire nation? There's whole states that haven't had any issues...

[–]LibyaAlGamaty -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm, I think there's a little bit more than that. Such as torturing innocent people (Guantanamo), killing thousands of innocent people abroad through drone strikes, Spying on everyone (even in your country), etc etc

No comparison between Qatar and the US in terms of human rights, the US is far worse.

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It absolutely is not as relevant when discussing US against Qatar. I can't believe I'm having to argue that US has a better human rights record than Qatar, I mean really? It doesn't take a genius to look at the current and past record for Qatar and to realize the US is a much more developed country with MUCH more labour rights than Qatar. I seriously can't believe you're defending Qatar in this

[–]Atlético MadridStingerc -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Apparently reading comprehension wasn't big at your school. Where did I defend Qatar? Just saying if you are gonna argue that Qatar doest respect human rights you should not act his and mighty a week after a major American city had a gigantic set of riots over police abuse.

[–]Bayern Münchengotziller 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you act as though its black and white and you either are a perfect country or as bad as Qatar

[–]JuventusGreenbackboogi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I also said US wasn't perfect in this regard, I guess you didn't read that

[–]joepo32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Two completely different situations. One is worse than the other. Killing of thousands of slaves labor's is much worse than police over step. And that's not even putting into the equation of how terrible the police force and judicial system is in Qatar. You can be executed for simply being gay. That wouldn't happen in America. America and Qatar are not even close to being the same on Human rights. Qatar is in its stone age compared to most advanced countries. Some countries are more advanced and have a way better human rights laws. Lumping them together is naive.

[–]Belgiumcoconutnuts 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sure there's a lot to say about the US and human rights but I don't think children's rights is the best argument here. There's a lot of reasons why the US didn't like the convention which range from the way parenting is viewed to issues with regards to military matters ( military academies etc in the context of children's rights ).

Add to that the fact that the convention isn't really that great to begin with and a lot of signatories don't really give a damn about it.

[–]Bayern Münchengotziller 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The U.S. may not have signed some agreement but its not like we have any forced labor, child marriage, deprivation of legal identity, lack of atleast highschool education, freedom of expression. The only thing I'm not sure about is healthcare and I'm pretty sure if a child can't afford healthcare the hospital still has to help them which gets taken from the tax payers

[–]joepo32 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They do have to help them. Hospitals can't turn anyone away.

[–]joepo32 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We already have laws for all these things in the states. Just because we haven't signed an agreement with the UN doesn't mean these things are allowed to happen in America.