Is having a loving family an unfair advantage?
Plato famously wanted to abolish the family and put children into care of the state. Some still think the traditional family has a lot to answer for, but some plausible arguments remain in favour of it. Joe Gelonesi meets a philosopher with a rescue plan very much in tune with the times.
So many disputes in our liberal democratic society hinge on the tension between inequality and fairness: between groups, between sexes, between individuals, and increasingly between families.
I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally.
The power of the family to tilt equality hasn’t gone unnoticed, and academics and public commentators have been blowing the whistle for some time. Now, philosophers Adam Swift and Harry Brighouse have felt compelled to conduct a cool reassessment.
Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided.
‘I got interested in this question because I was interested in equality of opportunity,’ he says.
‘I had done some work on social mobility and the evidence is overwhelmingly that the reason why children born to different families have very different chances in life is because of what happens in those families.’
Once he got thinking, Swift could see that the issue stretches well beyond the fact that some families can afford private schooling, nannies, tutors, and houses in good suburbs. Functional family interactions—from going to the cricket to reading bedtime stories—form a largely unseen but palpable fault line between families. The consequence is a gap in social mobility and equality that can last for generations.
So, what to do?
According to Swift, from a purely instrumental position the answer is straightforward.
‘One way philosophers might think about solving the social justice problem would be by simply abolishing the family. If the family is this source of unfairness in society then it looks plausible to think that if we abolished the family there would be a more level playing field.’
It’s not the first time a philosopher has thought about such a drastic solution. Two thousand four hundred years ago another sage reasoned that the care of children should be undertaken by the state.
Plato pulled few punches in The Republic when he called for the abolition of the family and for the children of the elite to be given over to the state. Aristotle didn’t agree, citing the since oft-used argument of the neglect of things held in common. Swift echoes the Aristotelian line. The break-up of the family is plausible maybe, he thinks, but even to the most hard-hearted there’s something off-key about it.
‘Nearly everyone who has thought about this would conclude that it is a really bad idea to be raised by state institutions, unless something has gone wrong,’ he says.
Intuitively it doesn’t feel right, but for a philosopher, solutions require more than an initial reaction. So Swift and his college Brighouse set to work on a respectable analytical defence of the family, asking themselves the deceptively simple question: ‘Why are families a good thing exactly?’
Not surprisingly, it begins with kids and ends with parents.
‘It’s the children’s interest in family life that is the most important,’ says Swift. ‘From all we now know, it is in the child’s interest to be parented, and to be parented well. Meanwhile, from the adult point of view it looks as if there is something very valuable in being a parent.’
He concedes parenting might not be for everyone and for some it can go badly wrong, but in general it is an irreplaceable relationship.
‘Parenting a child makes for what we call a distinctive and special contribution to the flourishing and wellbeing of adults.’
It seems that from both the child’s and adult’s point of view there is something to be said about living in a family way. This doesn’t exactly parry the criticism that families exacerbate social inequality. For this, Swift and Brighouse needed to sort out those activities that contribute to unnecessary inequality from those that don't.
‘What we realised we needed was a way of thinking about what it was we wanted to allow parents to do for their children, and what it was that we didn’t need to allow parents to do for their children, if allowing those activities would create unfairnesses for other people’s children’.
The test they devised was based on what they term ‘familial relationship goods’; those unique and identifiable things that arise within the family unit and contribute to the flourishing of family members.
For Swift, there’s one particular choice that fails the test.
‘Private schooling cannot be justified by appeal to these familial relationship goods,’ he says. ‘It’s just not the case that in order for a family to realise these intimate, loving, authoritative, affectionate, love-based relationships you need to be able to send your child to an elite private school.’
In contrast, reading stories at bedtime, argues Swift, gives rise to acceptable familial relationship goods, even though this also bestows advantage.
‘The evidence shows that the difference between those who get bedtime stories and those who don’t—the difference in their life chances—is bigger than the difference between those who get elite private schooling and those that don’t,’ he says.
This devilish twist of evidence surely leads to a further conclusion—that perhaps in the interests of levelling the playing field, bedtime stories should also be restricted. In Swift’s mind this is where the evaluation of familial relationship goods goes up a notch.
‘You have to allow parents to engage in bedtime stories activities, in fact we encourage them because those are the kinds of interactions between parents and children that do indeed foster and produce these [desired] familial relationship goods.’
Swift makes it clear that although both elite schooling and bedtime stories might both skew the family game, restricting the former would not interfere with the creation of the special loving bond that families give rise to. Taking the books away is another story.
‘We could prevent elite private schooling without any real hit to healthy family relationships, whereas if we say that you can’t read bedtime stories to your kids because it’s not fair that some kids get them and others don’t, then that would be too big a hit at the core of family life.’
So should parents snuggling up for one last story before lights out be even a little concerned about the advantage they might be conferring?
‘I don’t think parents reading their children bedtime stories should constantly have in their minds the way that they are unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children, but I think they should have that thought occasionally,’ quips Swift.
In the end Swift agrees that all activities will cause some sort of imbalance—from joining faith communities to playing Saturday cricket—and it’s for this reason that a theory of familial goods needs to be established if the family is to be defended against cries of unfairness.
‘We should accept that lots of stuff that goes on in healthy families—and that our theory defends—will confer unfair advantage,’ he says.
It’s the usual bind in ethics and moral philosophy: very often values clash and you have to make a call. For Swift and Brighouse, the line sits shy of private schooling, inheritance and other predominantly economic ways of conferring advantage.
Their conclusions remind one of a more idyllic (or mythic) age for families: reading together, attending religious services, playing board games, and kicking a ball in the local park, not to mention enjoying roast dinner on Sunday. It conjures a family setting worthy of a classic Norman Rockwell painting. But not so fast: when you ask Swift what sort of families is he talking about, the ‘50s reverie comes crashing down into the 21st century.
‘When we talk about parents’ rights, we’re talking about the person who is parenting the child. How you got to be parenting the child is another issue. One implication of our theory is that it’s not one’s biological relation that does much work in justifying your rights with respect to how the child is parented.’
For Swift and Brighouse, our society is curiously stuck in a time warp of proprietorial rights: if you biologically produce a child you own it.
‘We think that although in practice it makes sense to parent your biological offspring, that is not the same as saying that in virtue of having produced the child the biological parent has the right to parent.’
Then, does the child have a right to be parented by her biological parents? Swift has a ready answer.
‘It’s true that in the societies in which we live, biological origins do tend to form an important part of people’s identities, but that is largely a social and cultural construction. So you could imagine societies in which the parent-child relationship could go really well even without there being this biological link.’
From this realisation arises another twist: two is not the only number.
‘Nothing in our theory assumes two parents: there might be two, there might be three, and there might be four,’ says Swift.
It’s here that the traditional notions of what constitutes the family come apart. A necessary product of the Swift and Brighouse analytical defence is the calling into question of some rigid definitions.
‘Politicians love to talk about family values, but meanwhile the family is in flux and so we wanted to go back to philosophical basics to work out what are families for and what’s so great about them and then we can start to figure out whether it matters whether you have two parents or three or one, or whether they’re heterosexual etcetera.’
For traditionalists, though, Swift provides a small concession.
‘We do want to defend the family against complete fragmentation and dissolution,’ he says. ‘If you start to think about a child having 10 parents, then that’s looking like a committee rearing a child; there aren’t any parents there at all.’
Although it’s controversial, it seems that Swift and Brighouse are philosophically inching their way to a novel accommodation for a weathered institution ever more in need of a rationale for existing. The bathwater might be going out, but they’re keen to hold on to the baby.
The simplest questions often have the most complex answers. The Philosopher's Zone is your guide through the strange thickets of logic, metaphysics and ethics.
Comments (73)
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Nathan B :
03 May 2015 9:31:03am
I think it is unfair that some people are addicted to heroin but others aren't. To even the playing field we should make sure children are given their first mandatory shot of heroin when they graduate so that they don't have an unfair advantage over everyone else.
Honestly I sometimes think philosophers some times have to come up with absurd ideas like this one just for the sake of justifying their existence by coming up with something new.
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Cath62 :
03 May 2015 5:16:27pm
Don't you love the idea of levelling the playing field downwards (not)!
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Evan :
04 May 2015 12:15:41pm
+1
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Sceptical Sam :
04 May 2015 12:18:11pm
Adam Swift. Great.
Are you related to the other great philosopher Dr Jonathan Swift.
He had a Modest Proposal too.
Genetics anybody?
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm
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Mat :
04 May 2015 3:21:06pm
The only means of true equality is poverty for all.
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adam :
04 May 2015 5:12:36pm
I am overcome with guilt realising i have advantaged my child unfairly over others. What can i do to make ammends? I know, i'll disable him to balance things out. thank god for our abc. Thank you abc, thank you.
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Carrie Morebrix :
04 May 2015 9:01:13pm
That's an odd response. It's not absurd to launch such an intellectual inquiry. Often deceptively simple questions help reveal much about the nature of things. This the core of philosophy; remember Socrates? Though he did cop it for his curiosity. Reading comments like this one makes me sadly conclude that we haven't progressed that far in 2500 years.
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Amos Keeto :
04 May 2015 10:04:23pm
Why is the ABC trolling the public with this idiotic click-bait? You already have our money. I suspect tax dollars pays their 'philosopher' too. Truly pathetic.
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KJ Prior :
03 May 2015 12:09:08pm
'Parenting' is an art work in progress. Every element of a couple/extended family is influential. Society needs to support parents so they have a rich pallet of resources and experiences to use in this most important job. Parenting.
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wolfkeeng :
03 May 2015 12:13:44pm
The traditional family is not the nuclear family implied (by never really defined) in this article.
The nuclear family is a very modern construction. The traditional family is (and in many places remains) the extended family.
The extended family (ie a number of adult figures contributing to the raising of children) is what these philosophers appear to be advocating.
They appear to be saying only marginally more than the African proverb made famous by a US presidential candidate:
It takes a village [to raise a child].
I've no doubt I would have had a 'better' childhood raised in an extended family setting than in my dysfunctional nuclear family.
And since it was raised in the article, I would also advocate the abolition of the private school system. In part because of the experiences of my broader family.
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Lance Boyle :
04 May 2015 4:29:31pm
"I've no doubt I would have had a 'better' childhood raised in an extended family setting than in my dysfunctional nuclear family."
Same here. That is why I am providing my children with a functional nuclear family.
However, that's not too say that you shouldn't raise your children in a non-traditional way. Plenty of people do.
What is truly objectionable about this article is not the philosophical theorising but the knee-jerk authoritarianism that only the State can provide a viable solution to a non-problem.
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iain russell :
04 May 2015 4:38:55pm
It actually takes a village to circumcise a girl. Having witnessed it and been appalled in Indonesia I can only imagine the horrors they occur in Africa. Extended families. Anyone for FGM?
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David :
04 May 2015 8:29:18pm
Sorry to hear that Wolfkeeng. However, just because you have a view about private schools, does not make your view superior to those who believe that private schools are better for their children. Each to his or her own.
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Evan :
04 May 2015 12:15:09pm
It seems a case ripe for the application of virtue ethics.
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Chris Harper :
04 May 2015 12:26:46pm
These guys are totalitarian thugs. Why is the ABC giving them any publicity at all?
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Crystal Clear :
04 May 2015 4:08:45pm
100% agreed. Why are the Feds wasting taxpayer dollars on this mob. Should've sacked Scott a millenia ago.
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rb :
04 May 2015 5:57:38pm
Because the ABC ARE totalitarian thugs when it comes to promoting fashionable inner-city causes. Especially the ones that cost taxpayers a lot and achieve Xxxx all.
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george :
04 May 2015 2:54:14pm
"Swift in particular has been conflicted for some time over the curious situation that arises when a parent wants to do the best for her child but in the process makes the playing field for others even more lopsided."
That is like saying that I should not cut my front lawn and generally keep the place tidy because it starkly increases the contrast with my bogan neighbours' tip next door. The playing field would definitely be lopsided so unfairly if we both had for sale signs.
Are these "philosophers" the graduates of our "level fielded unis" by any chance?
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Robert C :
04 May 2015 3:07:47pm
I think the simple flaw in their reasoning is their a priori assumption that overall equality of outcomes is a desirable societal goal in the first place. That is how you reach the grotesque conclusion that raising happy, healthy children is somehow unfair to children who were not raised so well. The answer should be to help those who need our help, not to handicap our children's futures.
If I didn't know better - that this is indeed the appalling state of modern philosophy - I'd suspect this Swift was pulling a literary hoax, as surely killing the babies of rich or loving parents would eliminate their unfair advantage, and increase the level of equality for the poor and neglected children?
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stevie84 :
04 May 2015 3:41:24pm
OH.MY.GOD. This article is epic. Bedtime stories are now bad for society? Wanting to love and give your kids a leg up is to be frowned upon? Epic.
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Neonborg :
04 May 2015 4:01:58pm
Insanity.
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David :
04 May 2015 4:02:20pm
Interesting philosophically, I suppose, but totally unrealistic, totally undesirable and a good exemplar of the mindset of Swift - that state sanctioned violence against certain individuals is acceptable because the political elite deem it so.
To all those parents out there who want the best for their children, who read to them, teach them, nurture them, shelter them, arrange private lessons, encourage and cajole them - good on you. You are doing the right thing. The family is the fundamental building block of society.
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Jason :
04 May 2015 4:03:04pm
You have got to be kidding! This is such absolute garbage.
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Jenny :
04 May 2015 4:07:13pm
Is this an April Fool's Day joke? Parents playing cricket with their kids gives an unfair advantage to them, so we should prevent parents from providing anything nice to their kids in the interest of fairness? Perhaps every child should line up on Tuesdays and Thursdays for a sound beating and be deprived of breakfast so that they are equal to kids whose parents don't give a toss about them? Or should we evaluate what the most wretched child in Australia is being subjected to and mandate that every child receives no more and no less? Are you people completely insane? We should be strengthening the family unit and encouraging it to provide every child the best start in life, not tearing it down with idiotic proposals such as this 'philosopher's'.
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Satans :
04 May 2015 9:47:16pm
There you go, just proving that these fine thinkers have a point. Your attitude is upside down. It's not your fault. You were indoctrinated by a sick and twisted society contaminated by capitalism and competition that rewards people unequally. It is perverse. I sent Stalin and Mao to show you all the way but you resisted their wonderful example of what things can be if we all just switch off our brains and worship those who know better. Shame on you for believing that this planet can be improved through honest and ethical endeavour and for passing on these impediments to your children.
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kruddler :
04 May 2015 4:09:18pm
Lowest common denominator philosphy. Ugh...
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Zac :
04 May 2015 4:10:10pm
This is how it'll look when commies and Marxists take up philosophy. No wonder many authoritarians dwell in our universities. Shame on ABC for giving platforms for such looneys.
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Adam :
04 May 2015 4:11:34pm
At first I thought this was satire and was chuckling through it. Then ....to think that my little boy will be part of a "problem" because we invest in providing him with inclusive enjoyable and stable family rituals focused on his learning and development so that he may have a successful life ...well...one asks why the ABC would give this kind of stuff airtime as opposed to other topics.
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James :
04 May 2015 4:14:37pm
Good grief, now the ABC is giving voice to an opinion piece that seriously questions whether a happy loving family is fair or not and therefore, we should think of choosing an unhappy, dysfunctional one instead (what other option is there? No family at all I suppose).
For God's sake, just what are you doing with my money ABC?
This is loon stuff at its most bizarre.
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Frank :
04 May 2015 8:27:30pm
We should find out if those "philosophers" are typical abc socialist/homosexual/paedophiles..or just art farty good for nothing types.
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Greg :
04 May 2015 4:18:48pm
What next Eugenics is good?
Time to Defund the ABC you seriously have lost the plot!
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Natasha :
04 May 2015 5:07:33pm
This is a typical lefty philosophy - to achieve so called " social equality", you bring down the good ones to the level of the bad ones.
Lefties like to create victims so that they can have a cause to pursues.
What on earth that ABC could give such a silly topic a platform.
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Tim of Kilsyth :
04 May 2015 5:18:19pm
I cannot actually believe that my taxes paid for this load of Marxist rubbish.Pol Pot would be proud of stuff like this. So we just deprive all children of love and affection . Plus do not let any of them excel at learning by giving them opportunity for a better education. I don't want to be around to see the end play of that scenario.
This article has taken the ABC to a new level of irrelevance from any vestige of normal human thought and behavior. I did not think that was possible given past performances."Well done".
The only good thing about its publication on the RN website is that no one will see it.
ABC Board , where are you? Hello?
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Art Sartrus :
04 May 2015 5:22:21pm
I'm so pleased to discover that tax dollars are once again going towards people that hate me and my way of life, and there's no legal resource except to bend over and take it. All for my own good.
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Bruce :
04 May 2015 5:29:12pm
Are these people totally insane?
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Anna :
04 May 2015 7:46:48pm
The answer to your question Bruce is a resounding Yes!
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Hard working Dad :
04 May 2015 5:30:25pm
This is the biggest piece of crap I have read in ages... "allowing parents" to read to their children - honestly who writes things like this.....it's nobodies business if I spend a massive amount of my hard earned money private schooling my kids and reading to them. Sick of these communist idiots that want to control everyone's opportunities that were brought about by hard work and dedication.
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Brett :
04 May 2015 5:33:09pm
These Leftoids really are pieces of shit, and the ABC is no better for airing this crap.
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Jorge P :
04 May 2015 11:17:37pm
These guys are taking the conservative side of the issue. In terms of the spectrum of views that philosophers have on the family, these guys would sit about centre-right. They're in favour of the family structure in the West, mostly want to keep it intact, and instead want to deal with inequalities by making broader societal changes.
That's a quite conservative position. Views from more left-oriented philosophers usually want to abolish the institution of the family completely, or require parents to get a license or some kind of educational certification before they should be allowed to have kids, or at least drastically diminish the role of the nuclear family in society. But the guys in this article? They explicitly state that they're trying to save the family.
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BenK :
04 May 2015 5:33:22pm
What do Swift and Brighouse have in mind for the banning of private schooling? Is it that the State will dictate the activities of all children between the ages of 5 and 18 for 7 hours of every weekday?
I'm not saying this hyperbolically: is this not cartoonishly totalitarian? If I wanted to invent a comic-book fascist villain this is the sort of thing I might make them do.
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Meniscus :
04 May 2015 5:52:29pm
Yes, let's reduce everyone to the lowest possible denominator so that we can all be equally mediocre. This kind of social engineering is anti-evolutionary and totalitarian in the extreme. Why do my taxes pay for this junk opinion? Who would pay for this opinion on the open market?
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Mark of SA :
04 May 2015 6:12:42pm
Where does it stop? Surely being alive is an unfair advantage as well (compared to the dead or unconscious).
This sort of nonsense is what comes about when people have nothing really useful to do - and I think "philosophers" are high on that list.
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crs :
04 May 2015 6:13:36pm
"Not being shot in the face constitutes an advantage, therefore everyone should be shot in the face."
I'm pretty sure this is a modern parody, based on the Modest Proposal of another Swift. At least I really hope it is.
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Mike :
04 May 2015 6:16:59pm
Please tell me the author of this piece isn't paid by the ABC?
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Bernie :
04 May 2015 6:21:16pm
Joe Gelonesi summarises this article of rubbish as follows: "Although it’s controversial, it seems that Swift and Brighouse are philosophically inching their way to a novel accommodation for a weathered institution ever more in need of a rationale for existing ..."
Who the heck is Gelonesi to say that the family, as an institution, needs a rationale for existing?
Statements like this - which are as offensive as they are inaccurate - are very much the reason why there is a groundswell to sell the ABC off to the quickest bidder.
Is a puerile article like this the best we, the citizens of Australia, can get from the $1.2 billon we waste each year on Aunty ABC?
It's time Aunty was euthanized - a subject on which the ABC is invariably in favour.
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Jorge P :
04 May 2015 9:50:38pm
"Who the heck is Gelonesi to say that the family, as an institution, needs a rationale for existing?"
Because everything does? If there's no rationale behind it, then why do it? In philosophy, the family structure has long been thought to have little rational justification behind it. But by defending the family and arguing to actually keep it, these philosophers are taking an underdog conservative position here. If you agree with the idea of keeping the family, then why are you angry at these guys that are trying to come up with arguments that support it?
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PsychoBabble :
04 May 2015 6:27:20pm
It is not the loving, caring, supportive family that confers an unfair advantage but rather a dysfunctional family that confers an unfair disadvantage. Stop the dysfunctional from breeding to raise the total level of advantage not lower. The so-called advantage simply means a better educated, more productive, less violet, etc. individual.
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yv :
04 May 2015 6:27:37pm
Is the author a complete idiot or still incomplete (disadvantaged by his parents) one?
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macytraine :
04 May 2015 6:41:38pm
What a lot of drivel. Seriously, I had to look at the date to make sure it wasn't April 1st. Can our research money please be put to better use? How about research into how we can help families lift their game to give deprived children a better chance?
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Fess :
04 May 2015 6:47:19pm
This is surely a joke - should have been published on 1 April. Otherwise these guys need to get a real job and do something useful. What the heck is the abc doing publishing this rubbish?
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Doug on the Bus :
04 May 2015 6:59:54pm
With the increasing number of so called "adult" parents who are seeking court orders about everything about a child's name and what school they should attend, what sport they should play and what religion they should be taught about, we have already reached the situation of a representative of the state (that is, a Judge) being in control of childrens' lives.
Add to this the number of children 'in care' or with care orders to try to have a child's basic welfare looked after and we may just think that the family has failed.
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Tom :
04 May 2015 7:11:18pm
The underlying logic. Punish good families because it's unfair on the "bad families" for "good families" to exist. Individual choices not put into the equation at all. Why does the ABC allow such nonsense to be published. The politics of envy used to justify the logic behind the stolen generation.
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Andrew :
04 May 2015 7:21:35pm
I demand that my tax dollars that have gone towards RN be refunded.
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Ron the sage :
04 May 2015 7:33:43pm
Why the commotion? It was a very interesting and engaging discussion on how to arrive at a secular defence of the family. Quite an intelligent line of thought by Adam Swift. Very well worth giving the time to listen all the way through.
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Chris Harper :
04 May 2015 7:57:11pm
Ok, this comment is based on an invalid assumption, namely, that the family needs a defence. It does not.
What needs defending is why anyone who is as desperate to control others as those cited here should be allowed anywhere near the levers of either power or influence.
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Ten :
04 May 2015 9:27:56pm
In your definition then, "family" is a unit to be obsoleted by the State for the capricious purposes of covetousness expressed by an elite force of power. In other words, because a wholly indeterminate "good" shall eventually arise, one based on rank materialism and vague assumption despite all of history telling us how these things invariably go, only when we experiment with forcing it into play against the even longer proven tradition of...love.
If these "philosophers" had any idea what viable philosophy actually was, perhaps they'd start by dialing down their own arrogance a factor of ten and then examining the actual spirit of man, led by their having no damn right to meddle with it.
Rather, they want to erect what they'll soon enough realize are dark grimy apartment blocs, each one run by the functional equivalent of a warden because some fool could be paid with taxes to think so very narrowly and so spectacularly arrogantly about how to order other's lives.
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Lil :
04 May 2015 7:40:23pm
Re-read the article but still couldn't find 'Love' anywhere in it. Without this difficult concept thrown into the mix, syllogisms won't fix it.
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Ron the sge :
04 May 2015 8:25:54pm
Love is implied by the 'familial relationship goods' that Swift talks about. This is the good stuff that happens in families. As a philosopher he is carefully building an argument to support the family against oft-used arguments of social inequity. He basically says it's a good thing - bedtime stories and all. Try and listen without such burning prejudice: you won't hear the message otherwise.
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dan swift :
04 May 2015 8:12:02pm
"Sceptical Sam said:
04 May 2015 12:18:11pm
Adam Swift. Great.
Are you related to the other great philosopher Dr Jonathan Swift".
Jonathan Swift was being ironic when he made some outrageous suggestions.
But there is no hint of irony in Adam Swift's ideas.
"Chris Harper said:
These guys are totalitarian thugs. Why is the ABC giving them any publicity at all"?
Swift says that 5 parents is ok. But the government actually has laws that more than 5 people
unrelated people cannot live together. So the true totalitarians are inside the gates already.
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Christus Albertus :
04 May 2015 8:35:49pm
Tell me this is not the subject of a commonwealth grant. Do not expect me to pay for this guy's lunch. Is this what really passes for serious thought in the socialist closet? Off with his head!
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Are you serious :
04 May 2015 9:01:53pm
How do these "philosophers" get a voice exactly?
They think they've reasoned something out thoroughly, but they've ignored 95% of the relevant information that is available to them.
Possibly the worst attempt at objective thinking I've seen since ... I don't even remember.
Terrible. Please stop giving these people a voice.
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Chris Harper :
04 May 2015 9:35:05pm
Still, that's no reason to allow more in.
Keep these control freaks out, and work to eliminate any who are already inside.
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Michael H :
04 May 2015 11:02:35pm
@Christus Albertus
As a philosopher-in-waiting, let me give you a guide on how we get academic jobs. Academia is extremely difficult in general, but for philosophy (the hardest of all academic fields to get into, with the lowest number of jobs) it is like this:
Step 1: 8-12 years of study and being poor.
Step 2: 5-20 years of having a PhD, being a doctor, but waiting around until it is your turn to fill an academic slot. During this time you do casual, paid-hourly teaching and other casual jobs. You can't get a loan to buy a house because you're not full-time. You're also still poor. You also have to spend virtually all of your free time writing papers and trying to get them published - which is unpaid work - because you will never get hired if you don't.
Step 3: At the end of it all, you have about a 80% chance of actually failing and never getting a job! Which makes all of your hard work for nothing. It is even worse now, since the Howard cuts decimated the number of available academic jobs in the middle of the last decade. Abbott has also ridiculed philosophy (and other humanities fields) and argued that there should be even fewer jobs. What fun! In the face of all of this, you just have to hold out and hope that, someday, you will be one of the 25% who will actually be given aj ob.
I'm currently waiting around in step 2. My point in saying all of this? Anyone who is an academic philosopher has paid their dues enough already. If they were hard-working enough, in the face of all of that, to see it through and make it - then that's great. Good on 'em.
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IB :
04 May 2015 9:03:56pm
I read this as a tongue-in-cheek kind of article. One benefit of these kind of considerations is a hierarchy of what actions advantage the child the most. I am delighted to see that the bedtime stories are near the top and private schooling towards the bottom. A delightful and humorous read!
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marcmarc :
04 May 2015 9:16:52pm
Give it 10-15 years,the left always gets what it wants eventually.
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Jorge P :
04 May 2015 9:33:52pm
The philosophers interviewed for this piece are advocating the 'conservative' side of this issue, yet the comments are full of people accusing them of being radical 'leftists'? Odd. It has long been argued by philosophers that the nuclear family has little rational justification behind it and is only propped up by fallacious arguments from tradition. The arguments in favour of abolishing the family are very strong, and these philosophers are the underdogs for instead arguing in favour of the family. They're arguing to keep the institution of the family and just make broader societal changes to try and minimize inequality instead. This is very much a conservative position on the issue, when compared to the other positions out there. It's not the -most- conservative, but it's sure right-of-centre when you look across the spectrum of ideas philosophers have on this topic.
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Richard (Melbourne) :
04 May 2015 10:07:25pm
"...biological origins do tend to form an important part of people’s identities, but that is largely a social and cultural construction. "
Biology is a social and cultural construction? These guys are beyond parody.
Your taxes at work.
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BLN :
04 May 2015 10:43:09pm
"Biology is a social and cultural construction? These guys are beyond parody."
That's not what they are saying; I think you must have misunderstood the quote.
"It’s true that in the societies in which we live, biological origins do tend to form an important part of people’s identities, but that is largely a social and cultural construction. So you could imagine societies in which the parent-child relationship could go really well even without there being this biological link."
To unpack it, they are saying the following: the *idea that our biological origins should be really important to our identities* is mostly a social construct. In other words, we all have biological origins, of course - but it is our culture that places so much emphasis on the idea that our biological origins should be so important to our lives. Because it is just a social and cultural construct, you an imagine what things would be like if we didn't have it. The authors then proceed to do just that - to imagine what it would be like if we didn't have it. When they start to entertain these possibilities, they conclude that parent-child relationships can be just as meaningful without any biological link.
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Philip Impey :
04 May 2015 10:09:12pm
There are some classic left-wing assumptions made here and their prejudices seem to shine through. Can this be considered to be truly dispassionate research? The hoary old idea that private schools are there for the advantage of the rich elite isn't reall backed up by fact. Refer to recent studies as to the comparison of results between private and public schools.
But an important point here is entirely missed about private schooling - many parents send their child fee send their children to Christian private schools to get a broader understanding of life issues than the narrow secular teaching of public schools. Religious education is practically non-existent and taught from and atheistic bias. Theories are taught as fact whereas faith is dismissed as fairy tale. My children were educated in a Christian school and, besides the state mandated curriculum, were also taught from a Christian world-view , which I believe has made them well-balanced members of society.
Is that a privelege or inequitable?
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BLN :
04 May 2015 10:32:23pm
It's neither. But why couldn't you just send them to a public school and leave the job of religious schooling to yourself (and your church)? Why does it have to be the school's responsibility to teach them about your religious beliefs?
That's sort-of the whole point of public schools being secular. Kids go to school to learn about maths and english and such, while religious education is left up to the families to decide. That's a far better situation for someone who wants their child to have a religious education, because every family has different religious values - and so does every teacher. It is really hard to make a 'one-size-fits-all' religious teaching approach workable, even for families that all belong to the same church. It's far better for religious instruction to be left for families to decide.
Ultimately, abolishing private schools and focusing on bolstering the public system would ensure everyone had equal educational opportunities. And it wouldn't hurt people who wanted their kids to receive religious instruction, because that job should be up to the parents in the first place.
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Fair Value :
04 May 2015 11:17:15pm
Too right its an unfair advantage.
My parents worked their bums of to give this unfair advantage to me. And my wife and I are working our butts off too to give this unfair advantage to our kids.
And hopefully so on and so on to one generation and the next.
I wonder what Mark Scott would say about getting rid of private schools, given he is on the school council at Knox Grammar in Sydney?!
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AndrewL :
04 May 2015 11:18:19pm
One advantage of living in a free country is the discretion to read anything, even tosh like this. Has the ABC jumped the shark?
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Christof :
04 May 2015 11:28:24pm
Further confirmation of where people who study their entire lives finish up. Who on earth described this rubbish as philosophy? Who has paid this bloke all his life to get to this point? I know who pays the ABC! Us suckers!
And I'm getting a clear understanding of how civil wars start - normal, yes normal clear thinking people - a few still exist - are actually working hard and paying taxes for this rubbish. Who let that happen? Why would the ABC even consider printing this absolute rubbish. Surely it's April 1st and I'm an idiot.
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