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Joss Whedon: Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency “Is Just Truth-Telling. Deal.”
You've been Jossed. No, wait, that's something different.
by Rebecca Pahle
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Wednesday, August 27th 2014 at 10:48 am
.“Watch the @femfreq #TropesvsWomen vids. Even if u think u get it, the sheer tonnage makes misogyny seem newly appalling.— Joss Whedon (@josswhedon) August 27, 2014
“I watched a bunch of women get sliced up in video games and now I’m watching it on my twitter feed. @femfreq is just truth-telling. Deal. — Joss Whedon (@josswhedon) August 27, 2014
A new
Tropes Vs. Women in Video Games
installment hit the web on Monday, and with it came the requisite (in the oh-of-course sense, not the this-should-actually-happen sense) wave of backlash against creator Anita Sarkeesian. If you’re one of those people who gives Sarkeesian hell because “she’s just listing things you could find on Wikipedia!,” Joss Whedon thinks you’re missing the point. Which you are. Laying problematic issues of sexism in video games out for all to see is the stated purpose of the series.
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Filed Under | Anita Sarkeesian
• Feminist Frequency
• Joss Whedon
• misogyny
• video games
• women in video games
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Kris Smith • 8 months ago see moreFor a second there, I thought he said, "...the sheer tonnage makes misogyny seem newly appealing."
Whaaaaaaaaat?!?-
Adam Blackhat > Kris Smith • 8 months ago see moreI think he's always regretted discarding the "Buffy is now a diner waitress" plot point too quickly.-
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Adam Blackhat > Aeryl • 8 months ago see moreLOL Oh, YEAH! Hah, I was only kidding. I forgot about that.
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Jennifer Koth • 8 months ago see moreI don't play games but follow Sarkeesian's pretty avidly and this weeks was damn hard to watch. It was one hell of a juxtaposition with the news this week that women are a huge demographic in gaming being confirmed. It feels so like the NFL. -
Diacritic • 8 months ago see moreEvery Sarkeesian video generates a thorough demonstration of Lewis's Law.-
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Rob Vary > Idril • 8 months ago see moreFrom the journalist Helen Lewis: "The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism." -
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Canisa > Idril • 8 months ago see moreIf I remember correctly it's the law that "The responses to any discussion of feminism will always justify feminism." -
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shayneo > Diacritic • 8 months ago see moreIf you want to see something refreshing. Bad Ass Digest have been coming to her defence and the MRAs are getting a total ass whopping in the comments. I think a lot of lads are coming to realise something really stinks in MRA land.-
Diacritic > shayneo • 8 months ago see moreExcellent. I *do* want to see something refreshing.-
shayneo > Diacritic • 6 months ago see moreBookmark that site. Theres smart folks hanging out there.
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littlethingsthatmatter > shayneo • 8 months ago see moreI just went to see it for myself.It's so beautiful!
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Tasali • 8 months ago see moreThis is great. Not only because there might be a dudebro or two who will now actually watch the video because Joss said so, but because in the last TMS article about this video, there were a bunch of Joss haters in the comments section.-
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Deviija > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreBecause he's helming The Avengers, yeah. There are quite a few angry fans in his Anita twitter comment threads, acting shocked that Whedon supports/agrees with Anita and feminism.-
Adam Blackhat > Deviija • 8 months ago see moreI kinda wish he had stayed out of it because now someone I have total faith in has touched someone I have, like, the frozen health food serving size amount of faith in, and now they're both unclean...but dudebros, that's a surprise.
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looneylad • 8 months ago see moreI've read a lot about Anita being a "scam artist" and whatnot for all the money she pulls from these. I understand there's a big backlash against her.Can someone try to objectively explain to me why some people don't like her and why those people are wrong? Like I understand that gamer culture is still incredibly sexist, but the hatred I've read toward this woman seems based in something more than just that.Thanks.-
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Teamugs > looneylad • 8 months ago see moreMost of the backlash is from dumb neckbeards who try to claim she's out to take away their precious vidya games. This is just obviously false. Second most try to claim that she uses clips from "otherwise good games" . Which doesn't make sense because she's commenting on tropes not the overall quality of any game. There's also "but this happens to men too" which 1. no it really doesn't and 2. doesn't diminish her points.Other people try to scoot around that and claim she "scammed people" with her kickstarter. Which makes no sense because she's literally setting out what she said she would do (make a video series about video game tropes) just on a slower schedule than she originally intended. It also makes no sense because it was a kickstarter that people donated to willingly. So it's not really a scam.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see more* donated to willingly...with an expectation that has been rescheduled and rescheduled again while she flies around the world thanks in large part to those donations.There's also the Fact that she uses Let's Play footage without credit (which is bonkers considering all of the pictures she posted with the library of games she bought in order to fulfill the Kickstarter...why not just play the games, do the work yourself, experience it for yourself? I believe there was also a promise of enhanced quality, which might have referred to only the picture quality, I guess, since her videos are pretty much the same as they've always been in design.As with any thesis, she picks and chooses her examples and, of course, does not have to provide counter examples, but the slant she takes is pretty heavy and occasionally somewhat twisted, which I think puts me off a little. That, and I remember her saying "In my feminist vision," which for some reason reminds me of Captain America turning people into trees. But that's probably just me.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreYou have no idea what any person's expectation's were. I gave her money to create a video series, she has done that. I don't give a shit about her using LP footage. If that cuts down on time for the videos then that's fine. Using LP footage is not proof she wasn't playing the game herself. You have no idea what games she has or hasn't played.You can go on and on about her thesis and examples and say it puts you off (ok whatever) but that's not equal to it being a scam or untrue.And either way, none of these things justify any of the hatred for her. The gaming community has no justification for their hate.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI didn't say and I don't care what she has or hasn't played, I just think it's discrediting to use someone else's footage. As for what backer's expectations are, I know what my expectations were, so phooey.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreAnd I disagree and like I said, people have different expectations. No one can "she scammed her backers" because there are plenty of backers who feel perfectly fine with her work. There is no consensus that is the case so it's a failed point of criticism. Especially because it consistently comes from people who were never backers.Not to mention, Looneylad is probably just trolling. There is literally no reason for the hate she has gotten outside of the sexism of the gaming community. There's never any justifiable reason for that sort of response.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreMaybe, but it's a worthwhile question. I take issue with the way she lumps games together, with her resolution for each video, and her time management skills. I don't think my criticisms or anyone's is negated because she's been harassed. That sucks, it's unjustifiable, but criticism, dislike, harassment, and threats don't necessarily live and die together. I loved her channel prior to the Kickstarter and I faithfully watch her new videos, but that doesn't mean I'm an acolyte. A fan, maybe...but, if you're a comic reader (and I used my amazing detecting skills to determine you well may be), you know that being a fan and being a happy fan are not the same and they're based in shifting sands.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreLooneylad specifically asked for a reason for the hate. And those criticisms do not justify or explain the hate, even if they were entirely valid. She is a prominent person to be subjected to this hate but not the only one. It's much bigger than her. That was what I was responding to. Not to mention I do think with Anita's videos criticism and harassment have been strongly married. So while I don't disagree with you overall about fans, I think the level of vitrol kind of pushes it past that level.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI'm not a joiner and I'm already married, but OK, I guess he was looking for an explanation for "hate", so you got me there. I don't have hate, just a vague sort of interest coupled with a vague sort of annoyance.
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Laura Truxillo > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreI can understand that. Personally, I don't care for her much. It's been a while since I sat down and watched a whole video because I remember there were some things she said that I found kind offensive or just plain wrong (though this much later, I can't honestly remember *what* so I probably should give her another watch to see if it still bugs me). BUT I think she's providing a valuable, visible voice not about game quality but about exactly what she says: tropes used towards female characters in the video game industry. It's something that so easily slips out of awareness unless someone shines a spotlight on it.One of the things I really hate about the backlash (beyond the fact that...holy crap, why does this happen why does this happen) is that I felt it made it difficult to critique her or even disagree with her, because...ick, those guys.-
Adam Blackhat > Laura Truxillo • 8 months ago see moreWhereas I am a lumpy rhino man and will charge in, despite the social climate, because I have no regard for human feelings and eat babies for breakfast. Well, I'm kidding.I completely understand now wanting to be regarded in the same light as so many other naysayers. See also, #nota-actually, you know what? If I finish this thought, I think Rebecca Pahle might serve me up as jelly at a banquet somewhere.The only backlash she gets that I think is...not necessarily deserved but not unexpected, is when people get mad about the particular characters she uses as her examples. Nobody wants their favorite character to be referred to as a fighting fucktoy, especially once they've been fleshed out in terrible movies, comics, cartoons, or fanfiction.-
Laura Truxillo > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreI dunno, I think she gets plenty of backlash just for existing and talking about a subject a lot of people don't want to think about, "favorite characters" or not.
Although I guess it comes from the same place--nobody wants to think of their hobby as a "bad" thing, so they don't want to think anything bad about their hobby. ...but also, some guys just want women to shut up. And there's a lot of that in the backlash she gets too.-
Adam Blackhat > Laura Truxillo • 8 months ago see moreI guess. I agree that the angrier responses have tended to be of the worst sort.
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looneylad > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI asked a question in like the most objective way possible. Following that, I've been satisfied with the answers I've received. Slow your roll with those trolling accusations.-
Teamugs > looneylad • 8 months ago see moreYou basically asked if rape threats and websites to punch her in the face were actually based on something objective and logical. Which is essentially a rhetorical question. Perhaps you worded it poorly but that reads rather trollish to me. If that was not your intent, I apologize.-
looneylad > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI really wasn't asking about those threats. I just meant where the overwhelming backlash stems from.Like I've read some more off of this site and while you have your angry nutjobs who are mad about her critiquing games they like, you also have people who criticize her for making tons of money off her Kickstarter and the videos not reflecting that. But even with that sort of thing, I don't understand why people are mad. If her goal was to make $6,000 and she made like, $150,000 then isn't the rest of the money hers to keep anyway? Project scope can't just be up and changed when you suddenly have your budget increased that much.Literally the only valid criticism I found is that she stole someone's artwork. That can be remedied pretty easily if it hasn't been already.-
Teamugs > looneylad • 8 months ago see moreAlright, I apologize for misunderstanding what you meant by hate.And I think that's sort of the thing. There is a limit to objective criticism that can be made of her and so most of backlash really does come down to the sexism of the gaming community and their refusal to deal with being confronted with it. I think people try to go down other avenues because it's easier than trying to actually address the issues. Because even when they try to use these other avenues it still reeks of being pretty sexist.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI don't think a reasonable argument can be made for, just for example, those Hitman posters.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreYeah, definitely not. I even saw some people who usually like to sling mud at everything she says unable to defend those. They're pretty gross.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI haven't or at least I don't think I've ever managed to try and argue with her thesis, because she's entitled to thinking whatever she likes. My issues have only ever been with the minutia. Frankly, I consider myself outside of the discussion of the games because the best ones she rips into (Bioshock, GTA...although not 4, I hated the car physics) either already exist and are complete or simply are not going to go away because they're too popular because they're too much flippin fun.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreWell I don't think she's asking them to go away? I love Bioshock, it's one of my favorite games. But I think she's good to call it out for engaging in sexualized dead female bodies. Even good games can have bad tropes and eliminating that trope would not have harmed Bioshock in the slightest. I think her criticism is that games just wantonly add these things without even really considering what they are doing. I don't think being a great game means it can't be criticized. Maybe it can be improved in the future due to it.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreI get a strong "burn'em all" vibe from her.As for the Bioshock 2 example, okay, you played it? Can you remember if Andrew Ryan really kills that stripper? Because that really doesn't jive with the Ryan from the first game and that was just...the most bizarre thing to me. Like, that's not who that guy was at ALL, but obviously the audio happened, I even remember the area...but I don't remember that it was Ryan. Bonkers.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreI don't. I honestly think that is projection. Especially because in many of her videos she says it's perfectly okay to like something that is problematic.I'm pretty sure Ryan kills Jolene in the first game because she was pregnant with Jack. The Siren's Alley part is from 2.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreShe did in the other videos, but not in this one, and I always think she's had a glint in her eye (or I've imagined it there since the "My feminist vision" comment). In any case, I agree that it's okay to like something, I don't think it's necessary to see the flaws, although I tend to always do so anyway.Well, then...I have much less sympathy for Ryan all around. Good to know.-
Teamugs > Adam Blackhat • 8 months ago see moreI don't see it that way but I can't really argue against your own feelings. Anyway,I personally think that it's important to see flaws but also okay to turn your brain off to them sometimes and just have a good time. Though obviously the point of her videos is to be critical.-
Adam Blackhat > Teamugs • 8 months ago see moreRight. Like I said, although I like her more positive pre-Kickstarter videos, I can't fault her for not producing a counter argument or counter examples against her own critical series. That's the exact opposite of how you do that sort of thing.
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