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[META] /r/Seattle has some issues; can we figure out a solution to them? Please add to the discussion and add your thoughts on the best solution! (self.Seattle)

carelessNorth Capitol Hill[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

Recently there was a post made by /u/jjm83 that outlined some issues with /r/Seattle, and while it had some great points, the solution it proposed was to create a new subreddit.

Because promoting a subreddit without first checking with the mod team of the sub you're promoting it on is not in line with this sub's rules, the post was removed.

That being said, I'd like to start discussion about what the best solution to the problems identified. Here's some of the text from the original post (paragraph breaks added by me):

I get you guys are tired of people asking the same questions over and over, but there is a reason people ask them. Sometimes old posts are hard to find, and even though they are supposed to, people don't always read the sidebar.

The attitude of this subreddit is appalling when it comes to people just seeking simple answers to questions. It's ridiculous. Reddit as a whole is supposed to be about being a community.

Hell, rule #6 of this very subreddit clearly says it, but the vibe being put out is anything but. If you're not in the /r/seattle clique then you don't matter.

I see the problems identified here as the following:

1. People ask the same (sometimes poorly researched) questions on this subreddit.

2. The regulars on this subreddit are, justifiably, more than a little bit annoyed at being asked the same questions repeatedly.

Because we want /r/Seattle to be a friendly and welcoming place, we need a way to resolve the friction between issues #1 and #2 above.

The proposed solution was to create a new subreddit, as I mentioned. Here's my thinking on why this solution isn't effective (copied from my conversation with /u/jjm83 in modmail):

Fragmenting a community into smaller subreddits to answer questions doesn't help because it doesn't work. Exhibit A in this argument is /r/SeaList; it's for buying, selling and really anything you'd find on Seattle.Craigslist.org

Does it work? Not really. /r/SeaList has 2,222 subscribers, a tiny fraction of /r/Seattle's 68,000+.

Exhibit B: /r/SeaJobs has 2,956 subscribers.

Looking at the subscription numbers, it seems that the creation of a new subreddit doesn't really work - these two examples have been around for 4 - 5 years, and they aren't getting the traffic they need to be effective.

I'm not saying that I'm right - I'm just trying to give my perspective on the "Make a new subreddit" solution.

Let's come up with a solution!

I have my own ideas on how to solve this problem, but I'd like to get the discussion rolling - and damn, did this post get long. What do you think is the best solution to this problem?

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            [–]____really____ 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            "Lets come up with a solution!" ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted ...deleted

            Wtf.

            [–]throwaway69420bl4ze 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (11子コメント)

            Careless - How do you expect us to collectively come up with a conclusion if you delete every comment chain you don't agree with?

            [–]dreamydemon 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (19子コメント)

            Do other cities have this issue? How do they handle it?

            [–]igotone 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Off the top of my head, /r/Chicago, /r/Charlotte, and /r/Portland all don't delete posts about questions. In fact, they just leave them as they are and let the votes decide.

            [–]ihminen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            No one has asked to have these votes deleted. Dumb questions are voted down the other post was complaining about the download.

            [–]524427 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (14子コメント)

            /r/askportland

            /r/AskNYC

            /r/AskSF

            /r/askaustin

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

            I think you're making my point for me here. Look at the numbers:

            The splintering of subreddits doesn't work well, in my opinion. /r/SeaList and /r/SeaJobs have been around for years and years and they don't have an appreciable fraction of the subscribers that /r/Seattle has - why do you think that starting a new sub will be effective?

            [–]compbioguy 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Yeah, you are wrong, though. /r/AskSF is a great subreddit and I think you are making everybody else's point that those communities are largely not interested in hearing the same questions over and over, hence the low subscription rate. That said, again, I participate in /r/AskSF occasionally and it does separate out the community posts from the questions well.

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            That's a great piece of information! Do questions on /r/AskSF generally get answered pretty quickly and thoroughly?

            [–]compbioguy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think so, I like using it because I get advice on what to do in SF (I lived there for a bit, so I also have something to add). I understand the balance mods face about overwhelming with common questions while not filtering out completely. An alternative to the ask city surreptitiously model is to have banned common questions with a wiki page or something pointing common answers. You could also have a weekly dumb questions thread or something. I think /r/nfl does things like this

            [–]524427 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Why is subscriber count your metric for success? It only takes a handful of people with google skills to answer nearly all the beginner level questions.

            Ypu should ask the mods of those city subs why they diverted questions to other subs, and whether it's helped.

            [–]maadison 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            If only 10% of the people in a sub are interested in helping tourists and answering repetitive questions, then /r/askXXXX is only going to have 1/10th the subscribers... but they would be the RIGHT subscribers. So I'm not sure your argument about splintering proves that it's a bad idea.

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You make a decent point. If it appears that the /r/AskSF and others are effective at getting questions like that answered, then... what do you think the criteria for "Take it to the other sub" should be?

            [–]casagorditaSeaTac 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It doesn't take a lot of people answering those repetitive questions.

            Case in point: There's a site called Cruise Critic that has forums where people post questions about their upcoming cruise, and local stays on either end. There are about ten basic questions that get asked over and over, making up 90% of the posts there. Could these people find their information by just searching the board? Of course. Will they? Obviously not. So there are about half a dozen local people who've started hanging out there and answering the Seattle questions. Nobody asked us to--we just found our way there, somehow, and started doing it. Call us unofficial ambassadors, call us dorky know-it-alls, but it's working. Some people just have time on their hands and a desire to be helpful.

            It would work the same here, I'm sure. The snarky replies would be left behind, and people could get actual, civil, helpful answers to their reasonable but much-asked questions.

            [–]theandyeffectLower Queen Anne 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Other cities don't have mod problems.

            Just look at this thread. So many deleted comments and they were all reasonable and valid complaints about this subreddit. We've found the problem, it's careless and creating this post and deleting everyone's comments is just making it obvious to all of us that a lot of the problems start there.

            I certainly don't want to be a part of a place that operates like this thread has. It's pathetic and our community is being held hostage by one person who is surely enjoying the power.

            I think the solution after seeing this thread happen may be an entirely new subreddit. I'm around here so rarely because it's not a great place that I didn't even realize there was this problem until seeing this crap. It's a bigger slap in the face to have a facade of an open discussion about improving this place when you completely restrict the discussion to things you approve of.

            [–]Jasonberg 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (8子コメント)

            I think we need to think like Seattle people. Crafty and creative.

            We kill off those jobs and requests and photos and ITAP and other SEA subs and get everyone in here.

            Then, require Tags. Gotta question because you're coming to visit? Gotta tag it. Took a picture of Mt Rainier? We've got a tag. Job request? Tag. Restaurant/date/anniversary/Mother's Day/other? Tag!

            Then, allow people to sort the posts by tags they want to see. If you want to see pretty pictures, leave the pix and ITAP tag on. You want Seattle news and current events? Leave the tag on.

            Don't want to be asked about jobs? Just turn that tag off and you won't see it.

            The number of people here will increase. The number of angry people will decrease. The effectiveness of communication will go up as visitors will get their answers. And those that are too lazy to add a tag won't spam the sub.

            It's a win, win, win, win, win. Except for the subs that are living off those people that have left.

            [–]ChosenRyan36 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            If we're doing this I would like to see a tag for events and then not remove event posts as spam.

            [–]ChosenRyan36 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Same with job listings, tickets, and everything else really. Admittedly most posts will be crap, but currently most posts are crap anyway. This is where our upvotes and downvotes help. If we are so intent on keeping everything in one subreddit, then all types of posts should be allowed if they have the proper tag.

            [–]VoltasPistolKent 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Tags sound like a pretty great idea. I'm not 100% sure how they work, but by making tags like "Food", "Music", "Meetups" might actually encourage people to write better, more specific posts instead of trying to sound vague enough to not get deleted for asking specific questions.

            [–]dementedavenger99 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

            Set-up filters like this sub may help: /r/RealEstate/

            We could also hold a seminar called "Learning To Ignore Posts That You're Not Interested In".

            [–]maadison 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            We could also hold a seminar called "Learning To Ignore Posts That You're Not Interested In".

            This.

            There is little reason to be upset about the repetitive posts. They're generally easy to spot from the title, and thus easy to ignore. It's not like there's a limited number of bits allocated to /r/Seattle each day. If you don't like them, don't click on them. Feel free to downvote. But just leave them to be answered by those who want to answer them.

            I'd love to see broad support for a moderation policy that allows repetitive posts and supports deleting nasty and snarky comments on them so that newcomers/visitors don't have a bad experience in /r/Seattle, even if they're rude by posting "bad" questions.

            Alternately, as mentioned in a previous exchange with you (/u/careless), I'd strongly support using the sticky thread as a weekly "Post your questions about moving/visiting here" thread, as some other subs do.

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Should we allocate less time to the Weekly What's Happening thread then? What do you think the right ratio between What's Happening and "FAQ Answers!" threads should be?

            [–]maadison 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Devil's advocate question: if the Weekly What's Happening thread can't earn its place on the front page from upvotes, is there enough interest in the community for it?

            [–]castle-black 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The issue is reddit's algorithms will cause it to plummet after a day or so, when it needs to stay visible from mid-week through the weekend and easily accessible. I think it's a valuable part of this sub.

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            To echo what /u/castle-black said, it's the reddit algo that will drop it after a few days, and... people who are regulars here won't want to upvote it, because dang it, they see that post every week.

            [–]raevnos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            So make it a sticky.

            [–]maadison -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            OK, I get that the discounting algo gets in the way, but then you say:

            people who are regulars here won't want to upvote it, because dang it, they see that post every week.

            and that feels to me like it supports my point that there's limited support for the thread.

            IMO, Reddit just isn't the right venue for it. And the event threads I've seen rarely have very much in them.

            [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Set-up filters like this sub may help: /r/RealEstate/

            Filters / tagging posts seems to be a popular solution. I'll bring up my one point about it; over half the traffic reddit receives is mobile, and mobile apps do not show tags, AFAIK. Given this point, do you still think this is a worthwhile solution?

            We could also hold a seminar called "Learning To Ignore Posts That You're Not Interested In".

            If only... there are soooooo many people that would benefit from this seminar.

            [–]kaisengaardRainier Valley[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I'm personally for tagging, if it's something we can figure out and implement (without breaking stuff; I'm prone to accidents). I'm guessing there might also be a way for mods to tag posts as well, in case a submitter forgets or can't. I've never utilized tagging, so it would be something we'd need to get help on, I'm sure.

            [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–]ckb614 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

              /r/running has a daily Q&A thread. Make everyone post to that if they have questions and delete all the other threads

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

              That's a really interesting idea. We could auto-create this thread daily - it wouldn't be stickied, but it would be created.

              Do you think this would be better or worse than having a bot point users towards FAQ's and delete posts that are common questions?

              [–]ckb614 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              I hate bots in general.

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              If we made a daily thread, it would be bot-created. They're just tools for accomplishing a task that humans find repetitive.

              [–]ckb614 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

              I'm talking about automoderator bots. When shit gets deleted for not having a question mark in the title or whatever it's enraging. A bot to post the thread is fine

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly here:

              1. You are in favor of a bot to provide information to users that post FAQ's.

              2. You do not want the FAQ posts removed.

              Let me know if I've got that wrong.

              [–]ckb614 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              I want a bot that posts a daily Q&A thread.

              I want any self posts that should have gone in that thread to be manually deleted by a moderator.

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I want a bot that posts a daily Q&A thread.

              Do you think it would be effective if it wasn't stickied? Remember, we have the Weekly What's Happening thread that is stickied every Wednesday morning.

              I want any self posts that should have gone in that thread to be manually deleted by a moderator.

              And I want world peace and Ferrari :-)

              While I appreciate your zeal in signing the mod team up for a whole lot of work, we're volunteers. And using a bot that detects certain common words and phrases makes our volunteer work a whole lot easier. We do review the bot's actions regularly.

              [–]raevnos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Get rid of that stupid bot that comments on every other post with "you look like you're wanting to visit" messages.

              [–]ridukosenninFederal Way 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              How about a weekly basic question thread. Similar to /r/personalfinance "moronic monday", "foolish friday". This creates a safe place for newcomers to ask any question .

              [–]TheOdyssey_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Posted something similar elsewhere but I feel like much of the problem is the tone of the post.

              The 'im new help me' sets people off since 'new' people are expected to utilize the resources provided and ask something more pointed than 'Where is the best bar for 1 night since I'm here a weekend?'

              Who the fuck wants to answer that?

              However, if they came in without the qualifier that they're new, and instead phrased the question in a more conversational, 'What do you think/What are your thoughts on...' type way, those posts see more success.

              I don't think changes need to be made, though. Tags are a solid call who cares about the mobile stat? If it helps one user base why not use it?

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The 'im new help me' sets people off since 'new' people are expected to utilize the resources provided and ask something more pointed than 'Where is the best bar for 1 night since I'm here a weekend?'

              Who the fuck wants to answer that?

              I see both sides of this; the new user is thinking, "Hey, maybe there's something cool happening this weekend that isn't in the FAQ's and such.", whereas the regular is thinking, "Jeeebus, not friggin' again."

              Tags are a solid call who cares about the mobile stat? If it helps one user base why not use it?

              I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, just that there are more effective methods than tags. Bots, for example, aren't hampered by the problem of being effective for less than half the traffic.

              [–]TheOdyssey_ 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yeah but the bots removing posts isn't what people seem to want. Tags are. It doesn't have to be the only solution but it does solve a part of the problem.

              [–]mr_mojo_rye_sin 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              It might be easier to discuss what the regulars of /r/seattle deem an acceptable thread.

              I think rule number one needs to be expanded on a bit.I would like to see moderators a bit more active moderating

              posts that do not contribute to the point of the thread.

              /r/seattle regulars also need to brush up on their reddiquette. Down vote isn't a dislike button.It is a shame I have to

              expand all down voted posts to find an opposing view. heading to work merry monday people.

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              It might be easier to discuss what the regulars of /r/seattle deem an acceptable thread.

              That's an interesting approach. Do you have any thoughts on what should and should not be deemed acceptable?

              [–]margeink 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This has been discussed every time a thread like this appears. Allow all posts and let the community/votes decide. Stop removing posts that you personally do not find "appropriate".

              [–]turtlehanaLake City 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              • (1) While it can be a bother to some users, users could start tagging their posts via adding it in their title; [Moving to Seattle], [Best Places to Eat], [Hiking], [Camping], [Jobs], [For Rent], [Tickets], [Pictures], etc.

              • (2) I am on mobile however I do use desktop half of the time. If adding tags to title is bothersome then, while I couldn't see it on mobile, it'd still be beneficial to have tags.

              • (3) Simply just allow all posts and let users down vote or up vote.

                • (a) Moderate for general assholery and derailing.
                • (b) Still have a bot post a link to the faq for frequently asked questions.
                • (c) See about delaying or removing voting/vote visibility.
                • (d) users can learn to simply not click on posts that annoy them.

              [–]PeteyNice 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Can the solution involve bringing back the old header?

              [–]VoltasPistolKent 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I think we should stop encouraging downvoting "common questions" like where is the best beginner hike to a body of water, which Thai place has the best Tom Kha Kai, and why there is a giant plume of smoke over such-and-such neighborhood right this very minute. These are very specific questions that expand knowledge of the subreddit. Okay, maybe you personally don't care about Tom Kha Kai, but maybe you will eventually need to know this obscure piece of trivia and you're not doing anyone any favors if you downvote it so much that the submitter deletes it. Now NO ONE will know ehere the best Tom Kha Kai is, and now no one can Google it, which leads to more "common" questions on /r/Seattle.

              Stupid questions (What's the best hike? Any good Thai places in Seattle? DAE hate Comcast???) should be downvoted to tell, but not detailed questions like the ones above.

              A giant link to an /r/AskSeattle subreddit may help, along with text in the submit box: "Hey! If your submission is in the form of a question, submit it to /r/AskSeattle!" You have to actively herd people towards an alternate subreddit. Make mod posts encouraging people to add to the hivemind at /r/AskSeattle. Appeal to vanity by saying we're all so smart and it's a darn shame if we don't share our wealth of knowledge with people who seek our guidance. Ask others to ask people to come ask questions. If you want a new subreddit to thrive, you have to work at it.

              [–]VoterApathyPartyRenton 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              there's a bot that helps new users - just leave it at that

              [–]ChutneyRigginsCrown Hill 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I agree. I think the bot does an adequate job of pointing people in the right direction.

              [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              There are two bots that point people to resources; one is user created that attempts to find "Moving to Seattle" posts and a couple other types of frequent posts and point users to the wiki.

              The other bot is Automoderator, which posts about the rules to very new users and removes the post. This is due to trolls and spambots using brand new accounts.

              Two questions for you (and everyone else):

              1. Do you think we should up the usage of bots to point users to the wiki and other resources for frequently asked questions?

              2. Should Frequently Asked Question posts be removed as well as #1?

              What do you think?

              [–]VoterApathyPartyRenton -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              assuming that people can find the links (and will actually click on them) to resources, sure, that's a good idea.

              myself, I'm really tired of seeing the same questions repeatedly asked - so any action taken that could conceivably remove or minimize the amount of those posts is a good thing.

              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–]sprajInterbay 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Why haven't any of the other moderators posted in this thread?

                [–]CiscoCertifiedBothell 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Its because /u/careless is the only mod here.

                [–]sprajInterbay 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I wanted to make him say it :]

                [–]carelessNorth Capitol Hill[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Not true, however, given the amount of vitriol from the off-topic folks that are brigading this particular thread.... I don't blame them one bit for not wanting to jump into this thread.

                [–]sprajInterbay 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Not true.

                Why dont you open up the mod log and prove it to everyone? Or have any of them post in this thread. If they can't handle a little criticism then they aren't cut out to be mods anyway.

                [–]kaisengaardRainier Valley[M] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'm honestly just not sure what to do about the frequent questions situation. I like the idea of tags, personally. In subs that utilize them it can make it really easy to just sort to what you want to see. People might come to /r/seattle for different reasons, so it's one way of catering one sub to many different types of users. It wouldn't help mobile users, necessarily, but I think that's okay.

                I like corralling topics into "official" threads (like a weekly questions thread, a weekly what's happening thread, etc.), but there are some drawbacks. You can only have one stickied post at a time, and figuring out what the right mix of stickied posts might be isn't easy.