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lets debate the ethics of "cheating" (self.DeadBedrooms)

thiscouldbeuin35yrs が 投稿

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[–]sir_laid_alot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (54子コメント)

I agree with you. It's strange how withholding sex, starving your partner, and not letting them get their needs fulfilled through you or others is okay but the moment they get their needs met elsewhere, everyone loses their minds!

I believe you cant ask for monogamy and celibacy if that's not how you began the relationship. Why is it okay that libidos change but not okay that the relationship changes?

Here, a lot of people say to not cheat because it's wrong. I think that advice is wrong. If they won't provide for your needs, they shouldn't get a say in how you get them met.

[–]outoftearz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (51子コメント)

What's wrong with leaving? Wish I had. Sadly, I took advice from this sub and destroyed several relationships instead of divorcing. Now I'm divorcing, and leaving 3 adults and 5 children without a nuclear family.

[–]sir_laid_alot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Absolutely nothing wrong with leaving. I fully believe in it. But if you can't leave due to some circumstance, I believe cheating is what you have to do, sadly.

Sadly, I took advice from this sub and destroyed several relationships instead of divorcing. Now I'm divorcing, and leaving 3 adults and 5 children without a nuclear family.

Let me ask you, had your SO put out, would this have happened?

[–]outoftearz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (33子コメント)

There is no circumstance in the modern world which prevents a divorce. Where do you live?

[–]sir_laid_alot -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (32子コメント)

Wanting to still see ones kids everyday would. The partners inability to support themselves in two separate homes with kids would. Hell some even feel held hostage by the stigma people get over leaving for sex. The point is, it isn't black and white.

You didn't answer my question.

[–]outoftearz 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (31子コメント)

That's a choice. Do you want to see your kids everyday, or have sex with someone who isn't invested in your kid's happiness and future?

That is the difference between marriage and family and cheating. You either get the family and the kids, or you get to screw around. You don't get both without harming several people permanently.

You did not ask a relevant question.

[–]sir_laid_alot -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (27子コメント)

That makes no sense. Who would choose that when they could have it all by cheating and seeing their kids everyday still.

I'm going to assume then if your SO had put out, none of this would have happened. So in that case, it's their fault.

[–]outoftearz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (18子コメント)

It's the fault of the person who chose to have children and create a whole family and decided that the single life was more fun. I don't know what happens in childless sexless marriages. But I do know that my husband and I made a choice to create children, we worked and worked at it. That was what we both decided was most important to us.

Now I'll never have that again, and my husband is fighting for full custody, and the best I can hope for is every other week. I don't want my children to have to move house every other week. That is not a good life. That isn't a normal or fair life.

[–]sir_laid_alot -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (17子コメント)

I have done the house switching thing. Wasn't so bad. I'm happy my parents were separate and happy rather than together and miserable.

Anyways they changed the game up and that lead to the cheating so I blame them.

[–]outoftearz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

It is misery, my husband's best friend does it. And his phone rings constantly because his girls forgot this thing or that thing at his house, or this or that change to the schedule has been overlooked, or because they can't sleep eat or poop at the other house. You clearly don't have children. Why are you even in this conversation

[–]mordanus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So in that case, it's their fault

That's not how it works though. The reason you face that choice is definitely their fault but the choice is still yours to make. The responsibility for that choice is still on you. You are still accountable for the consequences of that choice.

[–]sir_laid_alot -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I look at it this way. They changed the terms. Not you. They gave you a choice of sexless or sex with other people. Can't be mad at what you choose. They created the situation so it's their fault.

[–]outoftearz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Once a house and children are shared, it is no longer just a me me me situation. I've learned that the hard way. I don't know why you are so resistant to listening to an adult version of I fucked up, or why you cling to your childish measure of what's right, but I want to believe. No I need to believe that children can grow and look back and recognize the mistake their parents made and forgive them, rather than cling to their fairy tale memories and assume they knew the whole story.

[–]mordanus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hear you but it isn't how it works. If someone makes you really mad and you kill them are you still accountable for the choice? Of course you are. If someone offered you drugs is it their fault if you take them? No because you are not a victim of other people's will. You make your own choices. The only time that applies is if you aren't considered an adult and can't make your own choices.

I personally think that renegotiating is the way to go. If they won't agree to be your partner then find a new partner or change the terms of the agreement so you can get what you need and it isn't cheating

[–]ThrowawayMacThrowing 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You cheat and it's their fault? you can rationalize it however you want, but at the end of the day you made the choice to stray. If you told your spouse and they're okay with it, then more power to you. Otherwise, if you're straying without their consent, that's on you. Leave. Finances and society's judgement be damned.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That is the difference between marriage and family and cheating. You either get the family and the kids, or you get to screw around. You don't get both without harming several people permanently.

This is an interesting post because it reflects the traditional picture of the cheater-- someone who is getting sex with their SO and isn't happy with that and gets ADDITIONAL sex outside the relationship.

So in your mind people can have EITHER a family or sex but not both, and if one partner is not happy with that they have to leave? Lots of people seem to think that and the SO only discovers it after the family has been started and they are trapped.

[–]outoftearz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did it hurt to make that leap? Our friends seem to be having sex. His parents do, and my parents did before my mother passed. I didn't have a sexless relationship to compare to. That's not an excuse. I just figured it wasn't common, and tried to pretend it was based on this reddit. this isn't normal. Most happy families have sex. This isn't reflective of the typical happy family.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did it hurt to make that leap?

I don't know what you mean by that.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I see escorts and my kids are adults, so there are no families at risk.

[–]outoftearz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Then what is stopping you from divorce? Home cooked meals? Holidays with pretend harmony?

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

At the age of 60 there is nothing to be gained for me by divorce-- women my age quit sex long ago.

And it would just a shitload of drama and hurt to my wife's life.

It would be senseless.

[–]outoftearz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Freedom for her to find someone nice?

[–]scotch_please27F HL 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nah, him having to clean his own house, cook his own meals, and deal with whatever issues the children still need to call home about would be senseless.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I could easily hire someone to clean my house and cook. And I am already the one who deals with problems my grown kids have.

[–]scotch_please27F HL 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So you have enough disposable income to hire a maid and personal chef (two complete strangers), but you can't fathom a divorce where your wife walks away with money to keep her on her feet until she finds a job and starts a new life?

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With $2M she wouldn't have to work.

[–]sir_laid_alot -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People who stop fulfilling their spouses sexually shouldn't get a single cent. I'm disapointed this isn't already a law.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That doesn't make sense.
She has become asexual, so she would want a non-sexual relationship with someone. She already has that with me. So why would she want all the drama and emotional trauma involved in divorce?

[–]Dbthrwwwy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh you are so nice and kind, thinking of your wife's best interest and all.

And you know what - most women in their 60s still have sex - it is just men in their 60s with old-fashioned views about women who think they don't. There's another old-fashioned sexist view you can add to your list.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I presume you are being sarcastic with the "best interest and all" statement, but I really am.

A divorce would just be a giant shit storm in her life with nothing gained.

[–]Dbthrwwwy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

As no doubt will be the fall out when someone sees you frequenting escorts and all her friends find out.

[–]thiscouldbeuin35yrs[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

They won't. I don't see escorts anywhere where anyone we know lives.

[–]Dbthrwwwy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And no one ever said THAT before they were divorced.

Maybe instead of trying to justify your position and paternalistically protecting her from your perceived notion that it would all be a "shit storm" and just be honest with her, and let her make an informed choice. I think we all know the real reason you don't leave her is financial, and you would rather be a lying, cheating asshole than live with half as much money.

[–]ThrowawayMacThrowing 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You may be right, but then you should have the fortitude to let them know that the needs they refuse to fulfill for you, will be fulfilled elsewhere.

[–]sir_laid_alot -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. I'm always in favor of communication. It should be done before especially. "You don't want sex with me anymore? Okay. But I will find someone who does."