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[–]CurtisLongbottom 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (66子コメント)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by, "they should have moved the Jews somewhere"?

[–]Jasurius 201 ポイント202 ポイント  (12子コメント)

To Madagascar. No joke that was the initial plan.

[–]____DEADPOOL_______ 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That would've been so much fun. Parties every day with Sacha baron Cohen.

[–]jreykdal 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Who is by the way jewish.

[–]____DEADPOOL_______ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even better

[–]PolarBearsAreOP 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well at least they would always survive a global pandemic.

[–]shadow__creator 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't mind hanging out with King Jullian. :)

[–]jyjjy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that would have been a totally different movie then I imagine.

[–]Darth_Vagner 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was told in one of my lectures that the decision to start killing Jews was largely logistical. Originally the plan was to create a system similar to the Native American Reservation that Oklahoma once was. But when the war started turning south they couldn't afford to hold all of the Jews in camps. Letting them go was not considered an option because the Nazis believed they would undermine morale and destroy any hope of victory.

[–]Ashley250 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Source?

[–]typicalreddituser412 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i bet madagascar could've become a rich country with jews

[–]fudeu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

TIL: Hitler had the solution to the middle East conflict

[–]3deuce5 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bear in mind I may be totally wrong and this may just be conspiracy theory from holocaust deniers and such, but, from what I understand, before the war broke out, Germany asked like... everyone if they would take the Jews, and nobody wanted them, and there was actually a Nazi program in place that helped finance and economically support Jews moving to Palestine. Like, not deportation, but "Look, we don't want you here, but we'll help you leave", and this only stopped because of the war, and the mass culling of Jews only happened because it was the only feasable way to get rid of them with a war going on. Not that it makes it any better at all, but the initial idea wasn't to kill them all.

Again, this may all be absolute bunk. It's just something I've heard. I think it's important to realize that we had/have as much propaganda as they did, so we shouldn't take everything we're told about our enemies at face value.

[–]Jasoni92[S] 145 ポイント146 ポイント  (41子コメント)

"They should have shipped them to their country and let them settle there peacefully. Killing is not an option."

[–]Joshgoozen 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This was the Nazi's original idea, they sent a ship of Jewish refugees that no nation accepted so they realized they could kill them and no one would care. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

[–]nmi986 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

killing someone involves very deliberate hard work. trust me they didnt just change their mind because of some ship

[–]moson 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What country? They were German (or Polish or whatever nation they belonged to) after all...

[–]BijouxThief 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm, well, it was tried. Also tried to ship them to South America and various other countries. Some countries refused them and they were sent back to Germany.

The British Mandate of Palestine (what we now again call Israel) had a immigration quota on Jews into the land - a quota of 10,000 persons per year between 1940-1944.

[–]Reficul_gninromrats 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

their country

That didn't really exist back then.

[–]BunnyPoopCereal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Jerusalem/Israel?

[–]Reficul_gninromrats 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Israel was founded in 1947. Jerusalem hadn't been a Jewish city since the Romans conquered it and later banned them from the city.

[–]vitriolic_amalgamati 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The establishment of Israel was directly related to the aftermath of ww2. It didn't exist before that. The land was controlled by the UN and being prepped for one day becoming an independent state for Palestinians at the time. But they treated a couple thousand jewish refugees really shitty while a Christian leader was there, he swayed the UN. So. Poof. Israel was born while Palestinians were all "wtf" and the killing has since never stopped

[–]CountToofu 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Well the country of the German jews was Germany.

[–]eipotttatsch 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think that's what she meant. Hitler wanted to create a pure arian race. Just keeping the jews in germany obiously was not an option with that goal. She probably meant Hitler should have deported thejews instead of killing them and kept the german race pure that way.

obviously that would still have been horrible, bit a whole lot better tahn killing 6 million.

[–]Jasoni92[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's it. The world is huge and there is enough space for that amount of people to live their lifes peacefully. Deporting them is wrong, without question, but killing them is much, much worse.

[–]Enjoys_A_Good_Shart 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You get that this is a 92 year old lady, right?

[–]colinroberts 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ok mister Stickler, she's saying they should have moved them somewhere else rather than kill them outright. Out of sight out of mind, ok?

[–]Fordlandia 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. I honestly can't stress this enough, my grandfather was best friends with an Auschwitz survivor and he has told us (and me, many times) that they considered Germany to be their homeland, and nothing else. They were as patriotic as the next German guy.

[–]HornierWhenHigh 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're talking to someone who lived in Nazi Germany, I doubt your delicate life typing away on the internet has the same grasp of the subject that she does.

[–]CountToofu 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was born in Germany and had the 3rd Reich almost as my only subject in history class. You could say I studied it for almost 10 years. My own grandparents where involved in the nazi crimes, they where citizens just like OPs grandmother and I have no problem criticizing them. I know how old people react to allegations involving nazi crimes and many of the people of my generation are sick of it.

[–]what_the_actual_luck -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then I would like to know your arguments towards Israel + Palestine :-)

Also studying it in school does not equal "studying". Not even close. Reading some stupid text books (that I also read by the way) is next to no information.

[–]reinkarnated -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's obvious what she meant and you're either stupid or being a troll.

[–]aryeh56 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a remarkably recent perspective. It didn't even begin to emerge until the time of Napoleon. Jews were reliably treated as foreign citizens almost everywhere. This was because they had been autonomous until shortly after the time of Christ. So for European Christians, Jewish Nationality was seen as very well documented. Napoleon flipped things on their head by holding a meeting with the French Rabbinate (on Shabbos, I might add) where he gave them citizenship. People bought into this across Europe as the nineteenth century progressed, eventually urged on by Germanic Jewish Theologians culminating with Hermann Cohen. After the Dreyfus Fiasco a small but loud minority emerged. They said, "All these Nations are attached to land to which we have no blood connection" and became Zionist, Jewish Nationals. The Holocaust lent credence to their argument. These countries didn't truly see Jews as citizens. They decided to leave, go to a land that being Jewish was connected to. (Other folk had moved in during the millennia of Jewish diaspora, leading to a whole new shit show) In any case, the Germans never saw the Jews as full citizens, and by the time the war was over the Jews didn't see things that way either.

[–]CountToofu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was the problem. The nations did not saw the jews as citizens because of antisemitic prejudices but the jews saw themselves as citizens. The zionist mentality rised from the selection they experienced in their home-countries.

[–]IZ3820 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We tried to let them settle their own country peacefully and dropped them into one of the most turbulent regions in the world.

[–]CountToofu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No we did not "let" them settle there. They fought for many years to get a state as a first step.

[–]IZ3820 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and what finally did it was a jewish refugee crisis across Europe.

[–]boaber 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Why does she think they should have moved them at all?

[–]myneckbone 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just take it for what it is, a history lesson.

[–]thepulloutmethod 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's saying that Hitler was going to try to create a pure nation of Aryans anyway, he should have let the Jews leave rather than trying to exterminate them.

[–]backporch4lyfe 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why did we round up the japs?

[–]i_need_a_pee 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's not saying that. They were getting moved no matter what. Her point is they should have moved them and not killed them if they had to do anything at all.

[–]optionalregression 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, she was a nazi.

[–]IZ3820 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isn't that exactly what Great Britain did with the creation of Israel?

[–]Fig_Newton_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's the problem. Pre-1949 there was no country with a majority of Jewish people. Hell they're surrounded by those who don't want them to have their own country. Hitler's idiotic delusions could only have led to the Holocaust.

[–]flyawaylittlebirdie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, it's a commonly overlooked part of history, but they did try. Originally the death camps were detainment camps, they asked all the countries they could to take the Jews but all the countries refused. It was when food became scarce and people were starving that they began to kill the Jews, they were already believed to be less important so a "us or them" mentality began.

[–]fodgerpodger -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Better a refugee than a victim

[–]CurtisLongbottom 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I believe those two are one in the same.

[–]Towerss 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think she just meant as as an alternative to killing them if leaving them alone was not an option.

[–]aqswdefrgthzjukilo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Expulsion.

[–]pale_of_frost 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd like to point out that both the UK and the US practised internment and relocation of their own citizens of other ethnic backgrounds, namely Japanese.

[–]spacebarbarian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch "Conspiracy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_%282001_film%29 , chilling yet fascinating film covering the Wannsee conference.

[–]nmi986 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

helloo ... she DOESNT LIKE THE JEWS ...

[–]dreamsforsale -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You know, move them to the bottom of the ocean. Not kill them or anything.

[–]Kingkertal 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sealab.

[–]Emerson73 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So that's why that place is so funny..

[–]faith_trustpixiedust 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Underneath the water sings opening song in my head

[–]jyjjy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Holocaust 2: Unda the Sea!