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Artist sketches a parody of the infamous Spider-Woman cover in response to threats; r/comicbooks has a cordial debate, downboats all around (np.reddit.com)

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[–]GaiusPompeius 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (26子コメント)

I haven't read much of the New 52, but I understand Harley Quinn is now a Deadpool-style metahumor character, so in that light this seems like a pretty good joke.

However, I picked up a copy of Suicide Squad recently and I didn't get any of that metahumor from her character in there. Comics nowadays are confusing.

[–]crackerpie[S] 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Here's some more context. Originally, Frank Cho drew Spider-Gwen in a similar pose as a sketch (and not a commercially distributed cover). The creator of Spider-Gwen, Robbi Rodriguez, didn't take too kindly to it. So Cho decided to draw another sketch with the same pose in "defiance".

As for Harley Quinn, yeah she's one of those characters who are portrayed really differently depending on whose writing her. DC is trending towards putting out as many different genres of comics these days, rather than sticking with a consistent continuity.

Edit: Both sketches are parodying Milo Manara's variant cover for Spider-Woman, which drew quite a bit of controversy.

[–]GaiusPompeius 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Amazingly, I did remember the Spider-Woman fiasco (not because I follow comics, but I believe it also made an appearance here in SRD last year). I didn't realize there was still a feud going on about it, thanks for the extra background!

[–]crackerpie[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Between the Spider-Woman cover drama, and the more recent drama over the Batgirl cover, tensions over at /r/comicbooks are rather high.

[–]sirgraemecrackerpass the popcorn 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There was a proper way for the internet to react to the Batgirl fiasco.

Sending people that objected to the cover (no matter what your opinions on how valid their concerns where) death threats was not it. Stay classy, internet.

[–]topicality 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What's odds is that if you look at the rest of the page it's business as normal. But there seems to be designated threads for this stuff now after the batgirl fiasco.

[–]JonestyHates drama 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What was the Batgirl drama about? I know I could look it up, but if I could get a summary rather than a list of articles and discussion threads, it would be a little easier to digest.

edit: Seriously, I'm just looking for information since it was mentioned. I'm not familiar with what's going on in the world of comics, and if I google it, I'm just going to come up with a dozen articles and blogs that are going to be arguing from one point or another. Rather than have to sift through all that garbage just to know what it's about would be a massive waste of time.

[–]Doomsayer189 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

DC was going to release this cover as a variant for an upcoming issue of Batgirl. People didn't like it, for a variety of reasons, and said so. The artist listened and eventually requested that DC not publish it, which angered people who did like the cover.

That's the basic gist of it, but this article is the best I've seen on the subject if you want to know more.

[–]JonestyHates drama 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks

[–]topicality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like it went away until frank cho did his parody and parody of his parody in response to the flack. It sort of feels like someone wanting to stir some shit/make popcorn.

[–]TheLamestUsername(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻. 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Milo Manara work (drawing is possibly NSFW)

[–]eganisdonefollow me on instagram @eganisdone <3 <3 <3 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Am I weird for thinking that cover is bad? Like it's not sexy so much as poorly drawn?

I've not seen more than a bushel of butt, but that also looks like no ass I've ever seen. Like her legs are coming out of her sockets and her butt is just wide with no depth.

[–]cyberpunk_werewolf 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm with you. It's not sexy at all, and it's probably some of the worst work I've seen from Manara.

[–]DuckSosuDoctor Pavel, I'm SRD 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It always looks really weird to me. I'm not even bothered by her ass, but her face and head. She looks all contorted like she's the possessed girl in the exorcist. I don't know enough about drawing or anatomy to know if it's actually wrong but her neck looks like it would need to be super long and fucked up to be in that position.

[–]kapeachca 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The hair bugs me too. Like if you want the face to be shown then have the hair going over the head, but as it is it looks like it's been hairsprayed in place at the top of the head and told to go wild on the bottom half.

And I agree with you that the face/neck area look all sorts of wrong. The left arm also looks like it would be rather painful to have moved like that.

[–]thelaststormcrowJet Fuel Can't Melt Ethics in Games Journalism 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not to mention there is no way she is actually wearing anything made of fabric. Skintight is skintight, but that's just bodypaint.

[–]kapeachca 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The color especially makes it seem that way (to me at least) for some reason.

[–]thelaststormcrowJet Fuel Can't Melt Ethics in Games Journalism 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and there isn't anything short of a thong that form-fits your ass crack that perfectly. That art is really something else.

[–]siegtheheart 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, that was the general consensus on it. It was just plain ugly.

[–]ReynardFoxKing 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I always thought it was an homage to this.

[–]wolfpaladinI know we joke, but SRS is a giant flaming pile of shit 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But done poorly

[–]Naldor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To me that an pretty iconic spiderman pose,in other media. that should be stitched together with the cover if you want to to compare not what ever half naked woman picture that was.

[–]WallaceRebornTimothy 2:11-12 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looks like a bodybuilder's ass.

[–]Novaova 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Looking at just her butt and her torso, I now see the underside of balls and a shaft, with human arms, legs, and a head attached.

[–]SJHalflingRanger 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's poking the hornet's nest a bit, thought I think it's interesting to note neither of his parodies is as suggestive as the original. It seems more like he's mocking the Internet outrage machine than demanding the right to have naked girls on covers to me. I can't say I'm intimately familiar with the situation though.

[–]a57782 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Here's my take on the frank cho sketch cover. You're drawing dirty pics of my kids. Be lucky your never around me"

If he's going to puff up his chest this much over a pretty tame sketch of one of his characters, what do you think he's going to do when he finds out about the pictures people on the internet are going to draw?

I think he'll break his ribs and push them through his skin like one of those newts.

[–]McRodo 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ok whatever... I understand her point about this particular Cho work... but she dismissed Adam Hughes because he's mainly a pinup artist and he specializes in female character. This just pisses me off, I'm all for trying to renovate the face of women in Comic Books but for fuck's sake, pinup as an art form has been around forever, some people do it tastefully and some don't. AH is amongst those who are actually really really good at it, and not only that his technique with markers is just astounding and nothing short of amazing. His art is extremely valuable and expensive as hell if you were ever to desire an original AH!. To dismiss him because he's on "the same level as Cho" only because they both draw boobs is mind numbingly stupid. Also AH doesn't (that I recall and I'm a big fan of his work) draw women playing with their breasts like Cho has done in more than one instance, she's just hating on people who draw women that are good looking, but look through AH art and you'll find very few nudes and no suggestive poses (that suggest sex I mean, and not just poses that show off feminine atributes).

[–]SS_Downboat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, Hughes's art does tend to be on the sexy side, but he also has the female characters' personality shine through. It doesn't seem like they're just posing to be sex objects.

http://www.justsayah.com/Images/Category_2/subcat_1149/Powergirl_2_web.jpg
http://www.justsayah.com/Images/Category_2/subcat_1144/WW_DKE_web.jpg
http://www.justsayah.com/Images/Category_2/subcat_1145/Catwoman_58_web.jpg

[–]DarthMelonLord 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like that his drawings make it look like these women could actually beat the tar out of you, they don't look like fishing poles with two bowling balls attached

[–]Michelanvalo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is it even possible to not draw Power Girl in a ridiculous bust?

[–]SS_Downboat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's fine for a female character to have large breasts, as long as she isn't always drawn in a sexually titillating pose. We just need a wider range of body types for women in general, and I think the comic industry is starting to realize that.

[–]SeducerOfTheInnocentI used to be /u/bluemayhem. 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (6子コメント)

They will throw down some crumbs just in case people like you ever bother to buy a comic book, but we (including people like you) all know that (almost all of) you don't buy comic books in the first place.

Hey, did you guys know that if you figure in digital sales Ms. Marvel outsells uncanny x-men?

[–]lightollera misandric double standard 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Dorks always retort that comics are marketed to sexy babe-obsessed male geeks. Wasn't the industry tanking when it was marketing solely to them? Hasn't expanding to other potential audiences, like young women for a rather large example, saved sales significantly?

[–]SeducerOfTheInnocentI used to be /u/bluemayhem. 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wasn't the industry tanking when it was marketing solely to them? Hasn't expanding to other potential audiences, like young women for a rather large example, saved sales significantly?

Yes and yes. Marvel went bankrupt in the 90s and today comics are a growth industry.

[–]lightollera misandric double standard 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And they keep asserting that the people they disagree with couldn't possibly read comics.

[–]mynameisevan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

While it's good that they're trying to expand their audience, I don't think that marketing to that male geeky audience is a major reason for the industry. They're still the main audience for comic books, afterall. What I've heard is that it was caused by that collectibles craze in the 90s. Suddenly everyone was into collecting things not as a hobby but as an investment. Think Beanie Babies and baseball cards. Comic books were a part of that. When the bubble burst it crippled the industry.

[–]topicality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I honestly thought I would see the death of the industry in my lifetime when I got back into it in the 00's. I mean I still sort of do, but I'm much less certain about it.

[–]SS_Downboat 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was very interesting during the Batgirl cover controversy, when people who admittedly didn't read Batgirl were complaining about the people who complained about the cover, insisting that "those people" don't even read comics.

[–]Caelrie 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Meh. Cho's just looking to cash in on some publicity. Be edgy = get clicks.

Trying to cash in on an internet scandal that's almost a year old just makes it even more sad.

[–]spoon_1234Jack Thompson is a Fake Gamer Boy 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Even sadder is how much reddit eats that shit up.

[–]lightollera misandric double standard 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Particularly that sub.

[–]SpiralSoul 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

That sub is such trash, as a major comics fan it saddens me to realize they probably represent the majority of the fandom.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you want a good comic book community tough fucking luck. I listen to a lot of podcasts about comic books and am a somewhat active comic reader, but I don't participate in communities at all.

[–]SS_Downboat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/dccomics is pretty good from what I've seen. The mod staff is really active about shutting down "debates" that turn into "SJW" name-calling slapfights, and the community itself tends to be more open to discussions about diversity. I think /r/comicbooks just happens to be much bigger, and thus when a controversial topic pops up, the assholes get dragged out of the woodwork.

[–]SpiralSoul 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've noticed that too, and I do spend most of my time "within the comics community" on /r/DCcomics. I'm just lucky I'm a DC fan, I guess, since it seems like /r/marvel is mostly about the movies these days.

[–]topicality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I feel like it used to be better before the batgirl thing. You had 50/50 chance of open comments or reactionary comments. After that though it's like you can tell what threads will be terrible before even going in and which ones will be normal. I don't know what happened.

[–]raminusshill ya later harassagator 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reminds me of gaming. Before last year, I'd have struggled to believe in the possibility of right-wing rhetoric having any real pull within gaming communities. You know, in the same vein as comics and tabletop gaming, there was a backwards, antiquated image to shed behind as everybody seemed so intent on maturing as a medium, becoming more accepted, more normalised.

Yikes. Talk about a reactionary backlash. This major culture war reminds me of irl polarising issues, like abortion and lgbt in the 90s.

[–]topicality 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could totally see it in comics as a broader culture, just because comics are always a little niche, pretty guy heavy and tends to focus on the past which is appealing towards conservative mindsets.

But I thought r/comicsbooks had fair number of progressives in it to balance it out. But not anymore.

Maybe I naively hoped nerd culture would be okay with bigger representation of women because it seemed like not long ago we were all making jokes about chain mail bikinis and demanding realism and grittyness. But no, when given the choice a lot seemed to go the other way.

It'll be interesting to see where this leads in a decade or two. We both have more women and minorities in these mediums but a bigger backlash. Will this encourage or discourage those groups from embracing these hobbies?

[–]TheLamestUsername(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻. 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (59子コメント)

Am i being naive here, when i think to myself, "hey comics books have had women and men in really tight outfits since the beginning. why are we complaining about this shit now?"

[–]eganisdonefollow me on instagram @eganisdone <3 <3 <3 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (27子コメント)

I just want sexualization to be fair.

Make spiderman have an uncomfortable bulge and every cover focuses on it.

[–]TheLamestUsername(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻. 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

well i hope you find a comic book that includes penis bulges and awkward erections then. :)

[–]billpikanot a teenager 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the cover was just ol' Pete's dick I would buy it

[–]beanfiddlernow accepting tithes of foreskins and well-done kosher steak 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Did you catch that particular piece of drama lately in which Square Enix finally decided to dress an upcoming primary male protagonist like a slut, and then pulled the plug because it offended people? The hypocrisy was kind of hilarious.

[–]PissingBearsbitcoin gambling apocalypse kaiji 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah, I saw a big montage of people's complaint comments too... The irony was too much...

Personally I don't care though, we can have a sexy ninja man and we can Fran from FFXII, let the designers do as they please

[–]Zenning2 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm a pretty big gamer.. and I haven't heard anything about that at all, could I have a link (I did a cursory google with the terms (ff15 controversy) and (Type-O) controversy, with nothing.)

[–]beanfiddlernow accepting tithes of foreskins and well-done kosher steak 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Here you go.

[–]vi_sucks 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do note that, as the article notes, "sexy dudes" have been in FF since the dawn of forever.

This guy just happened to hit that point where he didn't work for female fans as well as male ones.

[–]beanfiddlernow accepting tithes of foreskins and well-done kosher steak 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't they they were deliberately porntastic like this dude though. More like beach appropriate wear and the usual idealized male crap. This guy's outfit was deliberately cut out and reduced to show off his ass, chest, and back. It's like how lingere can cover more than a bikini but it's obviously more sexual than functional.

[–]sirgraemecrackerpass the popcorn 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

‘Final Fantasy’ Game Developers Changed This Character’s Costume For Being ‘Too Sexy'

Best headline ever.

[–]Zenning2 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No offense, but that guy has a great butt. I don't know what those guys problems were.

[–]beanfiddlernow accepting tithes of foreskins and well-done kosher steak 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If they accidentally look at dude ass they might catch the gays.

[–]jaundicemanatee 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ha. That would be a pretty goofy outfit no matter who was wearing it. Seems to fit right in with FF.

[–]Rawrpew 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was hilarious. Though from what I could tell it wasn't just the outft. They actually filled him out more after the change. There is a slight difference in his body to match the sluttier outfit (which is also amusing to me).

[–]freet0au contrail 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like this? http://lovelace-media.imgix.net/uploads/191/be3cf080-173b-0132-0857-0eae5eefacd9.jpg?w=1200&h=1200&fit=max&q=70

[–]HereForGames 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why do people always try to equate breasts and butts with penises?

Unless I start seeing cameltoe, you don't get bulges.

[–]McFluffTheCrimeCat 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

What if his package isn't big enough to bulge?

[–]carboncle 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I guess we'd have to figure out what the proportionate penis size of a spider would be.

[–]TheLamestUsername(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe there can be a duck based super hero.. (to get that you may need to google duck penis... do so at your own risk)

[–]SS_Downboat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know, Donald Duck never wore pants

[–]potato1 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This was The Oatmeal's take on that, for the record.

[–]moon-jellyfishDank Memes Inc. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How'd you get that flair?

[–]potato1 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My best guess is it's from posting a lot.

[–]mooberrypie 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think the problem stems from how female superheroes are often posed like supermodels doing a photo shoot, rather than confident heroes who also happen to be sexy. Even the most sexualized male superheroes like Spider-Man and Nightwing are drawn as badasses first and sex objects second.

For example, here is Wonder Woman drawn by two different professional artists:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/280/0/1/1404161899000-WONDER-WOMAN-36-COMICS-JY-665-65511024-e8aaa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DqZ7v2c.jpg

The first one makes her look like a teenage model playing dress up. Her body is all out of proportion, and she's sticking her butt out for no reason.

The second one has her standing up straight, looking confident and determined.

[–]CarboloKnight Commander of the Order of the Golden Bitcoin 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Whenever I see a cover or promotional art that first one, I always try to strike the same pose myself. This one is tricky. One foot forward, one foot back. Butt and arms out. Upper body bent over parallel to the ground and spine painfully corkscrewed to one side.

2/10, would not strike again.

[–]GrayGreyMoralityFan(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You might like The Hawkeye Initiative which replaces women super heroes with Hawkeye and other men superheroes and it looks hilarious.

[–]freet0au contrail 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How are those not both badass? In the first one it looks like she's crouching down a little because people are shooting arrows at her and she's stepping forward. The two pictures are obviously in two totally different scenes. No one stands up straight and casually walks around "confident and determined" when they're being shot at

[–]Doomsayer189 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

people are shooting arrows at her

They're not, actually. It's easier to see in this bigger version but she just has a couple arrows already in her shield and is kinda just hanging out by herself. Since it's a cover there's no context to explain what she's doing. Although even if there were no one, especially not Wonder Woman who is mostly indestructible, would walk like that to dodge arrows.

[–]SeducerOfTheInnocentI used to be /u/bluemayhem. 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because the thing being referenced is a variant cover for Spiderwoman #1, which people thought was inappropriate because it was the cover to a comic that ostensibly was intended to appeal to teenage girls, so having the main character be drawn in a way to appeal to straight male readers was seen as a misstep by many. Frank Cho here is mocking the concerns of said people, and the character he drew in that pose before Harley Quinn was Spidergwen, who is sixteen, which is why people are mad.

Both Frank Cho and Milo Manara have drawn hundreds of butts without getting shit for it before these incidents. It is not the mere fact of a butt that is what people are offended by, but rather the context.

[–]Melanimate 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

"She's sixteen but her body's like 24. Yeah must be hormones in the milk or the spider bite"

All of the girls in spider Gwen look above 21. Sexy pose or not-- THAT causes ugly duck syndrome for younger girls.

[–]jollygagginI asexually identify as 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought she was at least 18? In the Edge of Spider-Verse issue that introduced Spider-Gwen it seemed to suggest she was out of high school.

[–]Melanimate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I barely know, but someone claimed its not okay to pose her when shes 16.

but uh.

If shes 16, im 5. :(

[–]pathein_mathein 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As is what now seems always the case for gender issues in geek culture, it's not the thing, it's the response. This is strictly bear-poking.

[–]SJHalflingRanger 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People have been complaining about it for forever. The increasingly diverse audience for comics and the megaphone of the Internet has just made those longstanding complaints matter.

[–]lilahking 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

because people are growing up. it's actually a good sign.

[–]SardonicNihilist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly. Maddox did a great video on this in case you missed it:

http://youtu.be/CB6TiRJNI-Q

[–]billpikanot a teenager 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That pose looks far too similar to Nicki Minaj in Anaconda

[–]jimbotronman 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well luckily for the sexually liberated the industry is not moving past people like him. They will throw down some crumbs just in case people like you ever bother to buy a comic book, but we (including people like you) all know that (almost all of) you don't buy comic books in the first place.

+21

Ah, this old fallback argument argument. Makes me wonder exactly what kind of audience is buying Ms. Marvel, the new Batgirl, Spider-Gwen, etc. Even better, the user he's accusing posts a picture of her comic collection, and gets downvoted. Then he moves the goalposts and insists that collected editions don't count.

[–]jollygagginI asexually identify as 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ms Marvel is supposedly one of Marvel's biggest sellers, and Spider-Gwen exists because the fan reaction to her appearance in Spider-Verse was so massive it would have been stupid for Marvel not to jump on the opportunity. That guy's argument fails on so many levels, you have to wonder if he's the one that doesn't read comics.

[–]lightollera misandric double standard 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then he moves the goalposts and insists that collected editions don't count.

Jesus Christ, these losers are fucking sad. Why even try to pretend to reason?

[–]DeepStuffRicky 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Breaking news: Sexually frustrated comic-book readers love pictures of hot chicks on all fours. A guy draws several versions of this motif, gets a lot of attention. Women don't love it. In other news, water is still wet.

[–]FerPalacios93 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not every comic book reader is sexually frustrated, that's as stupid as saying every sports fan is a brain dead jock

[–]DeepStuffRicky 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, I didn't mean to imply that. Just that the sexually frustrated ones among them are the ones who'll really dig seeing that picture. Sorry if that is not clear.

[–]RoflPost 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I am a big comics fan, and a frequenter of /r/comicbooks, and that community is so frustrating. So many people there just do not want to talk about race or sex, and they like to pretend there is absolutely nothing wrong with the representation of women and minorities in the medium.

That or the they cry reverse sexism, and say Superman is unrealistically muscly, and that is the same as drawing women as alluring sex dolls made only to titillate men. Or they say they don't care about the race or sex of the characters or creators as long as "the contents good", which is bullshit because it just means that the people on the page and the editors and creators will keep being white males because the is how fucking institutionalized racism and sexism work.

[–]SS_Downboat 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or they say they don't care about the race or sex of the characters or creators as long as "the contents good",

I agree with this statement, for the purpose of pushing for more diversity. As a heterosexual male, it doesn't affect me whether or not a character is a heterosexual male, because there are plenty of those around. But for under-represented audiences, I can understand why it does matter, so I'll happily support having more diversity among characters and creators. And it frustrates me that whenever a book featuring a minority character is bad, they immediately blame "forced" diversity, and not just poor writing. Like there are plenty of reasons to criticize the portrayals of New 52 Alan Scott (who is gay) and Wally West (who is black). But people tend to focus in on the aspects that are the least relevant, and not the actual problems with those characters.

I mean if you look at some of the top creator-owned books, there are many that prominently feature women, people of color, LGBT characters, etc, so it's not like diversity is some "editorially forced" thing that hurts creativity.

[–]ttumblrbots 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

SnapShots: 1, 2, 3 [?]

doooooogs (seizure warning)

[–]PissingBearsbitcoin gambling apocalypse kaiji 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he's such an inconsequential nobody then why would anyone even bother being offended or criticizing the man for drawing on a sketch cover?

I've never seen an internet scandal erupt because Jimmy the guy down the street drew a picture of a naked girl.

For as much as you want to put this man down for being a "nobody", maybe you should point that finger right back at yourself because I sincerely doubt that the picture you keep posting to this thread of your book shelf and trade collection makes you any kind of somebody.

Who the hell are you and what have you done?

Because it seems like it to me that you are in fact the nobody just like the rest of us. You're a random redditor. Cho on the other hand works in the industry.

Whatever you think about sexy ladies in comics or whatever the fuck... You gotta admit this was a sick burn... OP was lookin to start shit and they got it

[–]seedypeteis a golem made of popcorn and SRS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like how anyone saying "I didn't like this cover so I won't be buying anything this guy produces" is immediately met with hysterical cries of "OMG CENSORSHIP" nowadays. I'm starting to think your average redditor has no idea what the word censorship even means and is just trying to use it like some cargo cult totem meant to ward off scary feminists.

[–]SS_Downboat 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen a lot of cries of "SELF-CENSORSHIP!" lately from the Batgirl cover drama and the Pillars of Eternity drama. It's like an artist isn't allowed to respond to criticism or something.

[–]patfav -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Comic book drama is becoming my new favourite flavor.

I just love watching people known for being extremely vocal of their overzelous opinions get really mad that other people also have opinions.

"Only I may rage impotently at the insignificant details of children's fiction."