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TheoryOfReddit

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On-topic statement

Theory of Reddit is a mildly navel-gazing space for inquiring into what makes Reddit communities work and what we in a community can do to help make it better.
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[–]niczar [score hidden]  (40 children)
The amazing thing is that SJWs manage to push back those who already agreed with them. I'm all for whoever identifying as whatever gender, but because I'm not going to bend over backward to pretend I believe any random psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho is really a lady, I'm suddenly "transphobic" and in the same category as WBC. Well, fuck it.
[–]croakovision [score hidden]  (31 children)
I remember a youtube video from /r/videos with a man in full KKK dress. You know what he said? He said, "I'm not a racist." Somehow this all seems very familiar.
[–]weinhimer [score hidden]  (10 children)
So you're saying that niczar is transphobic, and you're comparing him to A KKK member because you disagree with him? Yeah that's the healthy way to have a conversation isn't it.
[–]croakovision [score hidden]  (9 children)
“
I believe any random psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho is really a lady, I'm suddenly "transphobic"
”
No, I'm saying niczar is transphobic because he said something that is blatantly transphobic. Unless there is another way you care to interpret, "narcissist self-multilating psycho is really a lady."
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (7 children)
I'm not transphobic because I'm not scared of trannies.
In any case, if by transphobic you mean hating transgendered people, well I don't hate them. But there's something I hate, it's the in-your-face narcissism that is often associated with it.
People can do whatever the fuck they want, and I'm not going to stop them, nor am I even going to go out of my way to humiliate them. But they have no right to demand that I validate them.
[–]MillenniumFalc0n [score hidden]  (6 children)
You realize that "transhobic" and "homophobic" are not use to literally imply that you're scared of gay/trans people right?
[–]tetsugakusei [score hidden]  (0 children)
Actually they do, which is why Associated Press no longer use that kind of terminology. It is a terminological inexactitude.
[–]dustfeather [score hidden]  (3 children)
That is actually exactly what it meanst according to pretty much any dictionary.
[–]IAMA_dragon-AMA [score hidden]  (2 children)
Homophobic, from dictionary.reference.com:
“
unreasoning fear of or antipathy toward homosexuals and homosexuality
”
Let's look up "antipathy," now:
“
a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion.
”
Sounds a lot like hate to me.
[–]bludstone [score hidden]  (1 child)
If it meant hate, wouldnt the dictionary have used that instead of aversion?
[–]IAMA_dragon-AMA [score hidden]  (0 children)
Antipathy is a more descriptive word. It falls under the broader term of "hate," but it's slightly more specific than that.
Like how something might use proclivity instead of propensity, despite the two being nearly identical.
[–]pooptarts [score hidden]  (18 children)
There is some irony in defending one person's right to self-identify and then denying another's.
[–]croakovision [score hidden]  (17 children)
You're not exactly wrong, but this is still a false equivalency because it ignores context. It's been socially acceptable to discriminate against and harass transsexuals in the past, and they're still acceptable targets for mocking and ridicule in the present. As an example, we've progressed to the point where you can be in the military without worrying about losing your career over having a same-sex partner, but you can still lose your job if you come out as trans.
Also consider that the guy I argued with wasn't just arguing pronouns. His speech was legitimately hateful.
“
[If] I believe any random psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho is really a lady, I'm suddenly "transphobic"
”
[–]v00d00_ [score hidden]  (1 child)
Everyone is an acceptable target for mocking and ridicule.
[–]croakovision [score hidden]  (0 children)
I was referring to something more specific than that. See tvtropes for a pretty good definition. It's more okay to make some people the butt of the joke than others, and often (but not always) the distinction is based on prejudice. Like it or not, acceptable targets exist on reddit too. The reddit community has its own prejudices, and making the wrong joke at the wrong time can get you downvoted to Oblivion.
A fun game is to go around making socially awkward white male 20 something gamers the butt of the joke and waiting until one of the same people who champions "free speech" gets angry and offended at it.
I'm not going to tell you that you can't make jokes, though. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes a joke is just a joke. And sometimes humor is used as a mask for bigotry. It's a shame that kind of nuance gets lost on the Internet.
[–]pooptarts [score hidden]  (0 children)
Okay that's fair. However there's a bit more to his statement than just hate.
“
[If] I believe any random psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho is really a lady, I'm suddenly "transphobic"
”
While his message is certainly hateful, it's not hateful towards transsexuals. He's trying to say that when he criticizes a given trans person for reasons completely unrelated to that person's identity, he is criticized all the same for being transphobic.
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (12 children)
How is that hateful? I don't believe trannies are women. I do believe they have good reasons to wish to be a woman, but that's not happening. I certainly don't believe they should be shot, harassed or otherwise shamed. But don't ask me to lie and pretend they're actual women. They're dudes who for some reason wish they were a gender they're not.
[–]Jland139 [score hidden]  (1 child)
So you should be allowed to wallow in your ignorance about the issues that many people face, but may be alien to you? Even use of the term tranny implies that you have taken on the comfort of an outside observer who thinks he comments from an objective position. As if there is a 'normal' to castigate others from. You don't understand the issues faced by trans people, you diminish them, and then you get angry when people who have those issues try to voice them, because you are uncomfortable. You get lazy in your personal definitions and enraged when people who disagree voice their opinions. And somehow the group of people who try to voice opinions about their own issues in certain spaces are the 'authoritarian' ones, when it is oh so clear that you are incapable of accepting the voices of these very people. It annoys you, it challenges your preconceived notions, and that is unacceptable. This isn't a freedom of speech issue, as it is so often termed. Sometimes ignorant comments with no interest in contributing to a conversation on trans issues but only deriding people who experience these issues are not welcome in internet communities. You are not being arrested because you voiced your opinions, you are not being beaten by anyone because of it. In fact nothing about the material nature of your life has changed. This anger really makes no sense to me at all. Some people experience differing intensities of discrimination and hate in the world, this is a real fact. Let them have their communities where they can talk about it and stop embracing your ignorance as a signal that you are in any way correct.
[–]tetsugakusei [score hidden]  (0 children)
You read anger, I read exasperation. In practice, I doubt there's any difference in how you'd behave in everyday life.
[–]jsmooth7 [score hidden]  (9 children)
Because it's not nice to call someone a "psycho narcissist", let alone an entire group of people. It seems pretty obvious why that's hateful.
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (0 children)
Not being nice = hate?
Am I understanding you right?
[–]tetsugakusei [score hidden]  (6 children)
And there you have it. It's "not nice" and therefore must be "hateful". The lack of hate in a comment that simply describes a factual reading suddenly becomes hate as it does not comply with the appropriate SJW reading of what is nice or not.
[–]jsmooth7 [score hidden]  (5 children)
Ugh come on man, I'm just trying to explain another perspective to you. I'm not some SJW trying to tell you what to do. Do whatever you want.
Also saying all transsexuals are psycho narcissists is definitely not a "factual reading" either. I'm sure there are trans people out there that aren't psychotic or self-centered.
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (3 children)
“
Also saying all transsexuals are psycho narcissists
”
I never said they were. I said some of them were, but that I'm not allowed to dislike these particular ones' intrusive narcissism.
[–]jsmooth7 [score hidden]  (2 children)
I don't know why you'd even bother using those adjectives then. Every group of people has a few psychotic narcissists, and most people dislike them. (Unless that group is "people who aren't psychotic narcissists".)
[–]tetsugakusei [score hidden]  (0 children)
Part of dealing with these delicate subjects is the principle of charity. I read his comment as it was written, not as you chose to rewrite it.
He said:
“
any random psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho
”
You said:
“
saying all transsexuals are psycho narcissists
”
You see that giant leap. He was offering up the hypothetical worse case scenario and you were extending it to "all". That's not reasonable.
[–]Meneth [score hidden]  (4 children)
Are you really surprised that you get called a transphobe when you state clearly transphobic opinions?
You're referring to trans people as "trannies" (a slur. Roughly equivalent to calling gay people "faggots") in other comments, and in this comment calling trans women "psycho narcissist self-mutilating psycho[s]", and denying their identity as women.
[–]denshi [score hidden]  (0 children)
“
and denying their identity as women.
”
That's the point. They claim to be women, he disagrees. It's not hate speech.
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (2 children)
I don't believe they're women. I know they're men who wish they were women.
If you call that hate ... well I wonder what you'd call someone who'd lynch them?
[–]Meneth [score hidden]  (1 child)
“
If you call that hate ... well I wonder what you'd call someone who'd lynch them?
”
Also hate. More virulent than yours, certainly.
[–]niczar [score hidden]  (0 children)
Words don't mean anything.
[–]MaxChaplin [score hidden]  (0 children)
You don't need to bend over backward to pretend anything. All you should do is to understand the modern scientific concept of "gender", use the terms "man" and "woman" in a way that complies with their accepted definitions and avoid insulting people for no good reason.
[–]TotesMessenger [score hidden]  (0 children)
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