• Why Atheist Ireland’s disassociation from PZ Myers is important

    Atheist Ireland recently disassociated itself from PZ Myers. I won’t bore people with the specifics that led to the disassociation, the post speaks for itself plus I am sure people are well aware of it. However, I will briefly say why I think it was an important move.

    The tactics used by PZ Myers is well documented. If somebody disagrees with him then the dissenter is misrepresented, personally attacked and smeared. It’s not a tactic solely utilised by PZ, others on the Freethoughtblog network often employ it too, such as Stephanie Zvan and Ophelia Benson. So too does Skepchicks. The tactic has the effect of silencing dissent. If people know they can’t disagree without having their character being unfairly dragged through the mud then they are more likely to just keep quiet. I have lost count the amount of people I know who have been labeled “sexist”, “misogynist”, “harasser” for no reason other than the fact they have voiced disagreement. I myself was put on Ophelia Benson’s page of harassment for the crime of sending two tweets saying not everybody who disagrees with her is a misogynist. That’s it, two tweets and I am a “harasser”.

    That is why Atheist Ireland’s disassociation is important. It highlights the violent rhetoric and defamatory smears which PZ so frequently uses. But it also might give organisations and individuals the courage to speak out against these tactics. So far Hemant Mehta and JT Eberhard have shown their support, so too has Atheist Northern Ireland. But not without a price, true to form the dissenters’ names shall be smeared. Skepchicks falsely claimed Hemant endorsed a hate forum (slimepit) even though he did no such thing, the post was shared by PZ, Ophelia and Stephanie. Michael Nugent was labeled a harasser by Ophelia Benson because he tagged her in a tweet even though she has him blocked. Just because something is against twitters TOS (is it? I am not sure) doesn’t mean it is harassment.

    The casual usage of such labels must also be tackled. Sexism, misogyny and harassment are serious issues, not weapons to be used against people you disagree with. By accusing people so flippantly PZ et al. erode away the gravity of the labels and actual charges of sexism and misogyny may not be taken as seriously.

    If this pattern of behaviour is to stop then we need more people and more organisations taking a stand and proclaiming they will not be associated with people who continue to behave in such an unethical manner. Hopefully Atheist Ireland is only the first organisation to do so but I am not hopeful, I fear most organisations will stay below the radar lest they are the next group labeled to be rife with “misogynists”, “sexists” and “harassers”.

    Category: Uncategorized

    Article by: Humanisticus

    • latsot

      It’s always fun when a self-important person ejects someone from an organisation they were never part of in the first place. Nugent’s glaringly unprofessional post, in which he refers to himself in the third person (who are you trying to kid, Mick?) is breathtakingly self-serving. Is Atheist Ireland now only a tool for Nugent to whine about his own personal issues? At length.? At *extreme* length?

      The straw that broke Nugent’s back was a straw man. Mick was looking for an excuse to write yet another few pages about how he doesn’t like PZ and Oh My but he made use of that excuse.

      We get it. Mick doesn’t like PZ and has taken his bat in. Time will tell whether or not the ‘dissociation’ means Mick gets to snipe at PZ and ignore counter-criticism.

      • Kirbmarc

        What about Hemant Mehta and JT Eberhard?

      • Kirbmarc

        You also haven’t understood that a) Atheist Ireland hasn’t “ejected” PZ Myers from anything, but simply refused to associate with him and b) the post refers to Nugent in third person because it’s a guest post from the entire comittee of AI.

        Another thing you should try to remember is that is was Myers who smeared Nugent as a provider of “a haven for harassers, misogynists and rapists” and have routinely refused to either provide evidence for his claim or apologize.

        No straw man in sight, only Myers’ own unethical behavior.

        Myers is welcome to either apologize or give evidence for his claim. So far he has done neither and has instead smeared more people and refused to either apologize or provide coherent, actual evidence for his claims.

        • Shatterface

          Lostit’s slim grasp of English is a constant source of amusement.

      • Richard Sanderson

        Latto STILL doesn’t click that he backed a nasty, odious bully – even though I and many others pointed it out to him years ago.

        Also, you were the one who obsessively stalked Michael on Twitter, and then flounced when Michael calmly demolished your crap.

        The wider atheist, secular, skeptic movement is winning the war against bullies like you. That’s why you attended a deserted windy pub in Yorkshire just to get a glimpse of Dear Leader. Sad, but hilarious, to see a former Horseman contender fall so low. Alas, there’s still some distance to go, and I and others will make sure PZ completes that distance.

        PS – Hey, latty, notice how Ophelia has had to change her position on Ayaan Hirsi Ali after the Horde called her a racist and an Islamophobe? I also wonder what back-channel orders she received.

        You can cry and you can mope…

      • Shatterface

        The counter-criticism is Watson screaming THIS IS ALL ABOUT ME!!! ME!!! ME!!! and Svan farting her brain matter over at Lindsay’s.

      • kraut2

        Ah, the typical pharyngulite misrepresentation of the facts – crawl the fuck back into the hole you came from. Maybe you should start sucking Myers cock if you are so enamored with him.

        Luckily i stopped reading Myers quite some time ago, the tiny thread that had me keep watching the site was Singham. But after the Tequila girl broke out in a rant against Dawkins – of course duly misrepresenting what he had said and drooling her vitriol all over the place – I felt no longer the urge to help keep the sites visitors count up,

      • Unhiddenness

        hey

    • funkyderek

      Good piece, Peter. And no, it’s not against the Twitter TOS to @ mention someone who blocks you.
      https://twitter.com/tos?lang=en
      https://support.twitter.com/articles/18311-the-twitter-rules

      Ophelia Benson blocked me after I corrected her on this fact, although she clarified that the reason she blocked me was not because I pointed this out, but because she didn’t like me. (C’est la vie!) PZ joined in the discussion and then blocked me too.
      Ophelia later demanded I stop mentioning her because even though she had blocked me, she could still see my username when others replied and included her. I complied with this request and then she kept tweeting me, dragging me back into a conversation with her so she could tell me to ignore her. It was one of the oddest series of interactions I’ve ever had with another human being.

      • funkyderek

        I notice now that Ophelia “had to block about 10 people that Michael Nugent sicced on” her. What she seems to mean is that about 10 people responded mentioning her (as is the way on Twitter) and she chose to block them all because she considers getting notifications to be harassment.

        • Richard Sanderson

          It is what Stephanie Zvan calls “pushback”, except “pushback” is “harassment” the pushback is towards them.

      • http://BitchSpot.JadeDragonOnline.com Cephus

        It couldn’t possibly be against the Twitter TOS because Twitter doesn’t inform you that you’ve been blocked in the first place. The idea that being mentioned is harassment is absurd, just another clear sign that these SJWs have no rational thought, just blind faith.

    • Skepsheik

      Good piece.
      I don’t think it is fair to insinuate that the slymepit is a hate site. There’s plenty of decent people there. It’s certainly rude at times but most of the members treat it as a noticeboard, with the result that it is the best archive of information about the atheist schism that exists.
      I have no doubt that Mick Nugent gathered the information about PZ Myers behaviour from the posts made on the slymepit. The fact that it is possible to use the pit to find out about the highly questionable things Myers has done in the past (examples of his violent language, his delight at the idea of Christians dying – and even of him stabbing them, his promotion of rape hentai porn, his desperate attempts to prevent an inquiry into the rape allegation made by a student of his) is clearly the reason why Myers hates the place so much.
      Oh, and Latsot, do you seriously defend the use of the term “Irish wanker” for someone with whom you have a disagreement?

      • Kirbmarc

        I agree with Shepsheik. While the harsh satire and criticism of the Slymepit can sometimes be off-putting it isn’t a hate site. The worst that people on the board have expressed is anger at Myers’ and others’ questionable behavior, frustration with their double standards and justifications, strong disagreement with his ideas for policies within the Atheist/Skeptic movement, schaedenfreude at Myers’ misfortunes (which is a bit in bad taste at times), and (the part that I find sometimes classless and at times even warranted) criticism and satire of prominent FTB blogger’s physical features or sexual habits instead of their ideas (unless the justification for their sexual habits are relevant to their ideas, like in the case of Richard Carrier).

        The most uncharitable yet still reasonable interpretation of the Slymepit is that it is sometimes too immature and nasty for its own good. If that’s enough to be defined as a hate site most of the Internet is comprised of hate sites much worse than the Slymepit, including FTB (where members routinely write vitriolic and violent comments that make the absolute worst of the Slymepit look milquetoast in comparison).

        FTB members have routinely accused member of the Slymepit of writing death and rape threats of known feminists (no such thing has been written on the Pit), of “harassment” (read: repeated criticism) of “misogyny” (for harshly criticizing some women, curiously enough FTB feel free not only to harshly criticize women like Jamila Bey or Ayaan Hirsi Ali, but to even smear them).

        These accusations are backed by no serious evidence and seem to be yet more smears from FTB.

        Anyone who doesn’t believe me is very welcome to browse the Slymepit and find evidence that proves me wrong.

      • iamcuriousblue

        The whole obsession by the FTB/Skepchick crowd over “The Slymepit” is both pathetic and comical. Its an axe they’ve been grinding for *years*, going back to their demands that National Geographic quash certain threads on the NG-owned Science Blogs and kick Abby Smith while they’re at it.

        Ever since then, FTBers have obsessed over Slymepit all out of proportion to it’s actual size and degree of influence. Which is even more sad than SJWw seeing GamerGate lurking in every dark corner – at least GamerGate is a movement with some size and notability.

        More importantly, it’s lead them to go on the warpath against formerly relatively neutral bloggers based on over-the-top accusations that the latter are “in league” with the shadowy Slymepit. Which actually is fine by me, because that’s the kind of thing that’s finally getting PZ and company some well-earned backlash from mainstream atheist writers like Hemant Mehta and JT Eberhardt. It’s good that the rest of the atheist world is finally getting wise to what PZ and the like are doing.

      • Shatterface

        Slymepit is no more a ‘hate site’ than Charlie Hebdo was a ‘hate magazine’.

        Still, since most of FTB thought the Hebdo cartoonists got what was coming to them I wouldn’t expect Myers & co to have much sympathy if the same happened to the Pit.

    • John D

      PZ is a raging, cursing, bully, and makes atheists/skeptics look like we are vile and hateful. I will NEVER even visit hate blogs. They just want more hits so they can stay popular. PZs work is nothing but hateful click-bait.

    • http://de-avanzada.blogspot.com/ Ðavid A. Osorio S

      I supported AI as well…

    • http://skepticink.com/backgroundprobability/ Damion Reinhardt

      Great piece, Peter. I look forward to a time when the community can come back together instead of allowing the atheist takfiri to drive the agenda towards ever more hysterical acts of performative outrage.

    • AtariBaby

      I think a lot of this noise comes from people clamoring to be twitter and youtube celebrities. These raging controversies and flame wars, often times between atheists, totally drown out the information, which is what I’m here for.

      It’s even boiling over in these comments.