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So What’s Happening With The Hugos (andrewhickey.info)

StephenKong が 投稿

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[–]DNASnatcher 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (157子コメント)

I just read the Wikipedia article on Vox Day (aka Theodore Beale), and his opinions are just as horrifying as the above article made them sound. Apparently he has openly advocated for taking the right to vote away from women.

Things like this are so discouraging. On the bright side, it gives me even more imperative to seek out, consume, and support feminist, racially progressive and trans-friendly fiction.

[–]Bergmaniac 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That's not even close to the worst thing he has said, sadly. He is a complete bigot. He has repeatedly stated feminism is worse than Nazism, for example, and he clamed that the Talibans were justified and rational when they tried to murder Malala Yousafzai because women getting educated is "scientfically proven" to doom society.

[–]Freiling 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like Vox Poopuli.

[–]Kropotki 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Also called for acid attacks on Feminists and thinks all non-whites are subhuman.

[–]SonOfThomasWayne 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't want to sound like I am defending this asshole but you need to source what you said. Esp. considering how he is non-white.

[–]wackyHair 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Being an educated, but ignorant half-savage, with little more understanding of what it took to build a new literature by "a bunch of beardy old middle-class middle-American guys" than an illiterate Igbotu tribesman has of how to build a jet engine, Jemisin clearly does not understand that her dishonest call for "reconciliation" and even more diversity within SF/F is tantamount to a call for its decline into irrelevance. Nor do the back-patting Samuel Johnsons wiping their eyes and congratulating her for her ever-so-touching speech understand that.

In reply to someone

That's a remarkably stupid thing to say. She is half-savage. What is your grounds for claiming Africans were capable of going from full savagery to full civilization in less time than the English or the Germans?

[–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This comment I think covers Vox Day pretty well:

https://www.reddit.com/r/scifi/comments/31g6cp/finalists_for_2015_hugo_awards/cq24d1r

The comment links to this, which demonstrates his white nationalism conclusively.

[–]FallingIntoGrace 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (11子コメント)

ITT: downvote brigades

[–]lightninhopkins 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (10子コメント)

KiA is brigading the sub at the moment.

[–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Yup. For a small sub, there's a shocking number of names I don't recognize, that when I look at their history are full of KiA and totally empty of /r/printSF or /r/scifi.

[–]PapsmearAuthority 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

What is KiA?

[–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

/r/kotakuinaction, the gamergater sub on reddit. If you don't know what gamergate is, it's really not worth learning. Just some overblown drama in the online gaming community.

[–]polymute 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I for one used to be an avid SubredditDrama reader - it was my stories/soap operas. It just got bogged down with politics and nazis, and sexual orientations and religion so much that when I saw the whole Gamersgate mess unfolding I recognized that this was the time to get out.

The fuck was I going to spend hours reading up on inane pseudo-intelectual political drivel. Again. So I guess I should be thankful for the end of an addiction.

Regardless: stupid politics ruined my innocent fun of looking at coffee enthusiast explode over the correct terminology of brew a pot versus preparing a brew.

[–]PapsmearAuthority 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks!

I'm aware of gamergate. The brigade makes sense now.

[–]lightninhopkins 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are happier not knowing, I wish I didn't.

It is kotakuinaction, that is the sub. They are gamergaters.

[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because people can't lurk on other things? I can't post on a sub until I've got history on that sub?

[–]woodrail 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (92子コメント)

seek out, consume, and support feminist, racially progressive and trans-friendly fiction

Wouldn't you rather consume good sf?

Politics, all politics, all that ist, ive and ism is just so utterly beside the point. Delivers only crap.

[–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (50子コメント)

All good SF I can think of, from Herbert to Heinlein to Mieville to Banks, was political. They may have had very different politics, but the political nature of SF can't be denied.

[–]polymute 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

A good qualifier for some of the best SF (Solaris by Stanislaw Lem, Rama by Arthur C. Clarke, Do Androids Deam of Electric Sheep by Phillip K Dick, Ted Chiang's work, etc) is incidentally political.

That is to say, these works touch upon important aspects of the human social condition with grace which leads to their political relevance even when it was not necessarily intended.

Edit: explicitly pushing any sort of poitical agenda in a work of fiction (and I realize that there is a sliding scale here) can turn greatness down to the mere level of good. As much as I love The Moon is a Harsh Mistress it has less literary value than Solaris for example.

There are some, who straddle the line, but these are those who actually take the time to deconstruct their own supposed utopias. Some of Ursula K. LeGuin's and Iain M. Banks' best works belong in this category, I believe.

[–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How is Androids incidentally political? It's an explicitly political work written by one of the more political authors within SF. It's almost entirely a commentary on late 60s politics, culture and religion.

[–]polymute 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's been some years since I've last read it, but for me the main thesis was the identity of humanity and the destruction thereof with the physical destruction of humanity serving as a well-chosen backdrop. Also, the importance of the transcendental part of the human mind and that of the collective unconscious. I don't read this as more than incidentally political in nature.

And yes, Dick had his more political books, The Man in the High Castle premier among them but even in such a heavy-handed alternative historical scenario he uses finesse and doesn't portray the occupying Japanese, as evil as well as showing the reader a deeply damaged and traumatized Nazi assasin instead of going for a stereotype.

But I digress, as this wasn't the book I originally used as an example.

[–]ClockOfTheLongNow 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a difference between a book having political points of view as part of the story and having the story dictated by a particular point of view. The latter doesn't usually work out well, and few (Heinlein, Orwell) tend to be good enough writers to pull it off.

[–]0ooo 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nobody is reading bad sf just because of who it was written by - there is plenty of great sf that's written by non white guys. The idea is to just try to examine inherent biases in the media we consume and to give great non white guy authors a chance in an industry that has been dominated by white guys for most of its existence.

[–]lpetrazickis 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The absence of politics is also a political position.

[–]PapsmearAuthority 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (37子コメント)

Unfortunately, these things matter. But I guess you can just go balls deep escapist and ignore the world.

EDIT: More a comment on the inherently political nature of sci fi. I was too quick to write, but leave it for posterity.

[–]PresidentCleveland 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Good scifi doesn't "ignore the world"...

[–]PapsmearAuthority 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (24子コメント)

As you say, sci fi doesn't ignore the world! It is often political, and that is an important part of the genre. So it is not so irrelevant as woodrail proclaimed.

Supporting an ideology you believe in does not mean supporting bad fiction.

[–]SonOfThomasWayne 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Supporting an ideology you believe in does not mean supporting bad fiction.

It also doesn't mean supporting good fiction only when it matches with one's ideology though.

[–]PresidentCleveland 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Supporting an ideology you believe in does not mean supporting bad fiction.

It does when that ideology only writes bad fiction.

[–]PapsmearAuthority 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Are you saying that all fiction that deals with gender or 'progressive' politics is bad?

Because I agree that not all fiction supporting one ideology is good. I'm just saying that wanting to support doesn't mean doing so despite bad writing. Plenty of good writing for whatever your looking for, I'm sure.

[–][削除されました]  (10子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]PapsmearAuthority 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I think you're denying the political nature of sci fi. It's an important part of the genre, and I don't understand why gender et al can't be a part of it.

    Edit: I apologize for sounding inflammatory

    [–]Evavv 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (24子コメント)

    seek out, consume, and support feminist, racially progressive and trans-friendly fiction.

    How about you look for good SF and not just SF that you politically agree with...

    [–]DNASnatcher 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    How about you look for good SF and not just SF that you politically agree with...

    They're not mutually exclusive. I'm happy to read good SF that falls anywhere on the political spectrum. But if there's a strong, discriminatory force running through SF readership, I want to make sure that I'm visible in supporting the groups that are being discriminated against. That's not just a political decision- the more kinds of people that can write SF, the more good stories we'll have.

    [–]Evavv 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    They're not mutually exclusive.

    Good thing I never said they were. I would say the same thing to a conservative who tells me he only reads anti-feminist, racist and transphobic science fiction.

    This whole thing is stupid. The sub is almost unusable because people take their ideologies too seriously.

    [–]DNASnatcher 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Sorry friend, I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, just clarifying my position. And I'm sorry this sub is so frustrating for you. I actually kind of like the political discussions around here (less lately, with the influx from other subs, but oh well) but I suppose I have the advantage of having an opinion that's more or less in the majority.

    [–]Evavv -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I don't have anything against political discussion, but look at the front page. 90% of the threads (that are not days old) are about this stupid award. That's just unnecessary.

    Its also not like I disagree with the majority in this sub. I just don't care as much.

    [–]weezer3989https://www.goodreads.com/user/show/7190387 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It'll fade soon enough. This is totally not in character for the sub, never seen it like this before.

    [–]ClockOfTheLongNow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But if there's a strong, discriminatory force running through SF readership, I want to make sure that I'm visible in supporting the groups that are being discriminated against. That's not just a political decision- the more kinds of people that can write SF, the more good stories we'll have.

    So when people pen articles about avoiding works by a certain racial makeup, you'll be visibly pushing against that?

    [–]Nishinari -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I want to make sure that I'm visible in supporting the groups that are being discriminated against.

    What if these groups are the ones doing the discriminating?

    [–]argh523 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Against whom? White males? Some non-white, non-male people writing scifi, building games or whatever is discrimination against white males?

    [–]Mjolnir2000 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    People living in the past are going to have difficulty writing about the future. Reality has a liberal bias. Deal with it.

    [–]LittleWhiteButterfly 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Oh my god, there are people who actually say that unironically?

    [–]polymute -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because beginning with the Renaissance and carrying on from then on, during the last few centuries in our civilization liberalism historically has been gaining ground leading to our (political) reality having a liberal bias.

    Which is a good thing, because there are hardwired tendencies in our cognitive structures that dehumanize the members of the outgroups which had lead to great suffering and still does to a lesser extent. Agressive nationalism, religious persecution and racism stem from such places as well as socio-economical ones.

    Thankfully, the human mind and society has its emphatic, altruistic and impulse-controlling parts as well which serve as a glue for the whole of humanity in this globalized world. Without these we would have probably bombed ourselves back to the next stone age.

    [–]Evavv 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nothing you said is relevant to what I said.
    Not every liberal will write about feminism, racism, etc and not every conservative will write about how much he hate homosexuells. Not every book by a liberal is good and not every book by a conservative is bad.
    Avoiding books because of politics is silly.