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Personal InjuryUPDATE: UPDATE: Neighbor trespassed and was biten...crap has gone off the rails!! Pitchforks! Fences!! Lawyers! Oh my! (self.legaladvice)

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[–]gratty 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (24子コメント)

This is the first time I've actually seen a spite fence.

[–]Allicatfl[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Nope, not a spite fence. It replaces the portion the neighbor removed and links to my existing fence to create an area in the backyard for the dog to run around. I think that shade of green is called "spite" lol

[–]jcar128 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

While it may seem funny to you now, you do realize that it will just cause more drama, more danger to your dog, and more cost to you when it is ultimately ordered down, correct? Not to mention all of the legal fees along the way.

[–]nobody2000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why will it ultimately be ordered down? Genuinely curious, not trying to be a smartass.

[–]jcar128 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's a private nuisance. May not necessarily be ordered down, could be ordered to remedy the nuisance, which is either taking it down, or painting it normal colors.

I quoted a case talking about when a fence is not a nuisance in one of my other comments here. FL courts apparently look at whether there are other fences like it in the neighborhood, and the fence owners state of mind (looking for malice). I'm sure there are other factors FL considers, though I don't have the time nor inclination to look for them now.

But looking at those two BIG factors, OP and her fence clearly fail the test.

[–]nobody2000 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That makes sense. Thank you!

[–]AsAGayJewishDemocrat 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (8子コメント)

You have made things so much worse for yourself.

[–]jcar128 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't think OP cares. I just think OP wanted a good story to post all over reddit. Maybe OP won't be so happy when she sits down later and does the math on how much each of the karma points she earned cost her in relation to legal fees.

[–]Allicatfl[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Legal fees for what? The fence was correctly permitted and built to local ordience regarding height and placement. There are no regulations regarding color. But, you are correct. I should have let the neighbor shake me down for money and thanked him for removing his fence.

[–]jcar128 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Dear christ...I didn't think I would have to try to straighten someone out this early, but here goes:

You should not have let them shake you down for money, although you even admitted that your dog did bite the guy. But regardless, prior to you putting up this fence you had "clean hands." No court/judge/jury etc. would have really drawn negative inferences about you.

But here you are, all high and mighty flipping off the camera behind your spite fence. Your neighbor can go see a lawyer, then drag you to court to get an order stating you have to tear down the fence, or make it less of an eyesore by repainting it. Since you put this up with malicious intent, you don't have "clean hands." I'm not going to bother looking up FL caselaw for stupid shit like this, but there is a very high probability that because of your actions your neighbor will be entitled to collect from you attorneys' fees that he/she spent on their attorney to make you take the fence down. So you'll have to pay your neighbor's fees and costs of the litigation. And if you get your own lawyer you'll have to pay your lawyer as well.

But by all means, keep on doing what you're doing, I can't wait for the next update.

Edit to add: Did a quick search in FL caselaw, apparently FL does not have any statutes relating to spite fences. That's actually bad for you because in its place FL has apparently liberal statutes on private nuisance which is defined as anything that can lower the property value of your neighbor's property. Good luck proving to the court that your multi-highlighter-colored fence doesn't diminish your neighbor's property value. You're pretty F'd here.

[–]Allicatfl[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I STILL have clean hands. Florida has no spite fence laws. The height and set back are regulated. The appearance, style, or design of a fence is unregulated by local ordiences. I actually checked with the city planner and code enforcement BEFORE construction. Their concerns are with quality construction and materials. Not color.

[–]jcar128 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Did you read my edit? FL's private nuisance laws are much more liberal, and that is very dangerous for you. There are cases out there where an aggrieved neighbor won a dispute against his neighbor because of the neighbor's unkempt hedges marking the property line.

Fucking unkempt hedges got the guy bagged. And you think the colors of your fence will hold up? Jesus christ you can't really be this dumb or willfully ignorant, can you?

Edit to add: And while FL has no spite fence laws, here's an example of when FL courts determine a fence IS NOT a nuisance. Compare that to your situation and determine why it's the exact opposite of your situation and the courts would find your fence IS a nuisance:

In this case, the plaintiff complained that the defendant, an adjoining landowner, had built a metal-slatted, chain-link fence that was high enough to block the view of their neighborhood waterfront and make their neighborhood appear more like an institution (Walden v. Van Harlingen, 220 So.2d 670, 671 [Fla. 1st DCA 1969]).. The defendant claimed to have built his fence to prevent trespass by children and burglary as well as for privacy purposes (Id.). The court allowed the fence to remain because other similar fences had been built in the neighborhood without complaint and the fence did not completely cut off the plaintiff's beach view (Id.). Additionally, there was no spite or malice on the defiendant's part (Id.).

So it's not a nuisance when there are other fences like it. Are there other highlighter colored fences in your neighborhood?

Oh, and the courts also look at your state of mind. Like I said, you, in however long it took you to put the fence up, changed the entire dynamic of your situation. You went from upper hand to looking like the scumbag neighbor, even though you are not.

This is why you always, always, always consult with an attorney first.

[–]Bagellord 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So all OP would need to do is paint the fence if the neighbor complains.

[–]jcar128 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. Hopefully OP would do that, but I'm not so sure about this one...

[–]DillonV 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you would have a hard time arguing that this fence lowers property value. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The fence appears to be sturdy and functional.

Besides come to the Pacific North West and you will find thousands of properties with multicolor fences (similar to OP's) We think it's fun.

Could it be argued that the neighbor removing his/her part of the fence lowered OP's property value? can the neighbor be taken to court over it? Probably not, it is their own property. Well same goes to OP.

[–]clarence-darrow 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, that's a spite fence. You were probably in the right regarding the initial dog bite issue but you've decided to act like a child and up the drama level (while also posting all over reddit for the attention).

[–]Allicatfl[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yep. I should have done the mature thing and paid the man all the money he asked for and thanked him for removing his fence to punish me.

It is not a spite fence. It was permitted and approved by the city. It is built in the exact correct location and to exact height requirements of local ordiences.

[–]aron2295 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Its the color, come on.

[–]jcar128 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you mean? Looks fine from her side...

/s

[–]taterbizkit 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Despite what a lot of laypeople think, a court will look at this fence and take into consideration the story behind it, and see it for exactly what it is. "It was permitted and approved" is not going to save you, because in context it was clearly done for spite. The ordinance against spite fences exists to prevent things like this from getting out of hand.

If the neighbor is smart, he'll wait to sue you over the dog bite until after you're forced to take the fence down, so he can try to reference the fence situation in the lawsuit over the bite, to show that you're a bad neighbor who doesn't care about bla blabla...

It doesn't matter if that's true or not, mind you. What matters is that it will color the judge's perception of you in a negative way, and make you look like the bad guy.

And it's entirely possible that your neighbor could find out about this post, and show you crowing about your spite fence as if your actions were completely reasonable.

The way to win a civil suit against a crazy neighbor is to be extremely not crazy. Be "the most reasonable person in the room" and let crazy introduce itself as crazy. But now, instead of having that advantage in your pocket, you've handed it to your neighbor with a fancy bow on it. If this comes up in the dog bite suit, you'll be on the defensive from the jump.

[–]tbcwpg 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You had more options than just a) Pay him or b) Put up a fence that he could reasonably have removed through a court order. You could've put up, you know, a normal fence.

If it's not a spite fence, what word would you use to explain why his side of the fence is coloured in that way?

[–]swalsh411 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep. I should have done the mature thing and paid the man all the money he asked for and thanked him for removing his fence to punish me.

Nobody said that is what you should have done. But instead of just acting like a mature person who has to live next to somebody and doesn't want drama, you created drama. You know the one about sleeping in the bed that you made? Please post an update when you get sued.

[–]powdertoastman420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You dont pay the money you contact your insurance company. That is why you pay for liablity protection.

[–]envtl 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Nope, note a spite fence." - owner's side of fence is normal and the neighbors side of fence is offensive (bonus middle finger). Yup, definitely no ill intent there... You're a kinda shitty person.

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