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[–]MasterOnion47 545 ポイント546 ポイント  (88子コメント)

It's a common joke that Jefferson had jungle fever, primarily arising from his alleged relationship with his slave Sally Hemings.

In reality, assuming he did father Sally Hemings children, Sally Hemings was a 3/4 white slave who was Thomas Jefferson's first wife's half sister (her dad slept with a half white slave, producing Sally).

The kids of Jefferson-Hemings were 7/8 white, very fair skinned, and passed as whites for the rest of their lives after Jefferson freed them. They were the only slaves Jefferson freed.

[–]jturkish 184 ポイント185 ポイント  (87子コメント)

i don't blame him

/r/womenofcolor

edit: sorry reddit for saying i like women of color, my bad

[–]Bad_Mood_Larry 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (21子コメント)

I was trying to figure out what you didn't blame him for...The incest part, the slavery part, the only freeing his children, etc...and then I clicked on the link and the just "ohhhh".

[–]sunrypekiwi 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Incest? Sleeping with your wife's half sister isn't incest, it's awesome.

[–]ShallowBasketcase 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Unless she is property that you own and you rape her. That's a little less awesome.

[–]Kixur413 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Is it rape if you own her?

[–]GrandAdm1ral 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Property can't really say no.

[–]FrozenInferno 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because of the implication?

[–]s8l 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wait, uh, ok, they had me there for the first part, but the second part kind of threw me.

[–]Saufsoldat 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Property can still say yes. You're basically assuming no slave has ever had consensual sex.

[–]Wizzad -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because there's the threat of violence. Property can say yes, but if they don't they get the whip. So that "yes" wasn't really a yes.

[–]devynci 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who are you to say that that “yes” wasn't really a yes? Maybe she really did consent. I'm not defending slavery or even having sex with people you hold significant power over, but I think the idea that she couldn't possibly consent because she didn't really have a choice is flawed.

It's possible to not have a choice and still be okay with that. You don't really have a choice whether or not to pay taxes (since there are significant repercussions if you don't) but if you're a reasonable person you probably understand that taxation is beneficial to society and you willingly give your money to the government anyway.

[–]QuelqueChoseRose 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Legally speaking it wasn't rape, because a slave's consent was not required. Ethically speaking it was absolutely rape, for that exact same reason. If you have "consensual" sex with someone you're legally entitled to rape, the legitimacy of that consent is pretty questionable.

[–]fratstache -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So it's not possible to have consensual sex with your slave?

[–]snoharm 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes.

[–]DaveYarnell -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Interesting thought experiment.

[–]yetkwai -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It is rumoured that Jefferson began his affair with Hemmings when she was 14 years old. So it would be statutory rape at minimum.

[–]DRM_Removal_Bot 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not really, though. "Age of consent" wasn't a hard-line 18 like it is today. A lot of people were married by 14 back then. Also they lived shorter lives so it makes sense.

[–]Bad_Mood_Larry -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For some reason I read it as sleeping with his half sister wife .

[–]commulover -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree. Definitely awesome!

[–]whocaresyouguy 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (39子コメント)

You shouldn't have to apologize to these piece of shit racists on here. Fuck them all.

[–]Jaydee2 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (26子コメント)

Hey fuck you too bigot.

[–]dsaasddsaasd 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Fuck all of us, brothers.

[–]TheDarkLight 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Preach

[–]MissplacedLandmine -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Drake?

[–]scotty-doesnt-know 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Drake is such a nice guy he would free all the slaves and give every kid a college fund.

[–]MothaFuckingSorcerer 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fuck you? Oh no. Fuck me!

[–]brianbrianbrian 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, you want that slave girbuuuuurp girl cause she looks cool, huh Morty?

[–]anthdx -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pluto, is a planet.

[–]ChuckleKnuckles -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No thanks.

[–]Bearowolf -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fuck me! Please? Somebody?

[–]PoisonousPlatypus 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (10子コメント)

He literally said he doesn't blame him for raping a slave, and you're calling everyone else racist?

[–]jturkish 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The comment I replied to has no mention of raping

How is it that i'm saying I don't blame him for raping when the comment I replied to says and starts off as saying he had jungle fever

[–]PoisonousPlatypus -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

She was a slave, she wasn't exactly in a position to say no.

[–]jturkish 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get that but the whole comment is about having jungle fever. It even starts off by saying he has jungle fever. There's no mention of raping so how are you drawing lines that aren't there. Maybe while we're at it we can pull something else out of his history that also isn't mentioned in the comment and draw the line that I don't blame him for that as well

[–]Saufsoldat 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Who says she was raped?

[–]teh_hasay 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Well if she was a slave, it's likely there wasn't much of a choice. I mean, there's always the implication.

[–]Saufsoldat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

likely

Okay.

So do we say 90% of all sex was rape back then? Since marriage was often arranged without the woman's consent and marital rape wasn't really a thing.

[–]porgy_tirebiter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would imagine there was at the very least implied coercion in a master-slave relationship.

[–]teh_hasay -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So do we say 90% of all sex was rape back then?

..Yes? I mean, just because it was accepted back then doesn't make it any more ethical.

EDIT: to be clear, I don't judge people in the past as if they lived with the laws and morality we do today, but I don't celebrate them for it either. (Eg. "I don't blame him for raping his slaves").

[–]Saufsoldat -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which makes it meaningless to call a historic figure a "rapist" other than for shock value. Just like we don't call Henry VIII a racist, even though he probably was.

(Eg. "I don't blame him for raping his slaves")

Nobody ever said that...

[–]teh_hasay 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not meaningless. This isn't about "shock value" as much as acknowledging historical fact for what it is, and as wrong, which is what the person that started this discussion didn't really do.

Also, I didn't mean to quote OP directly word for word, but regardless, it was in effect what was said. I suppose the correctly formatted quote would be:

"I don't blame him (for having sex with a woman who was his property, and realistically didn't really have a choice to say no)

/r/womenofcolor"

[–]steviamies 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i prefer /r/ComplexionExcellence

[–]ShallowBasketcase 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah, see there's a difference between being attracted to black chicks and raping your slaves.

[–]Dmano -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I can't vote up or down on your comment either way yet for its value to the community but....

i thought it was common knowledge that most of our american ancestors and government creating politicians were at that time barbaric, racist, pieces of shit but we're improving that daily now that we have internet. please? tell me this is true?

[–]ShallowBasketcase 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not sure what your comment is getting at.

I just thought it was disturbing to reply to a story about a family that raped their slaves with a link to porn featuring black women.

[–]jturkish -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So from now on before I comment on someone's post I need to go read up on the history of the subject before commenting even if the comment has no mention of raping in it? The comment I replied to is prefaced with him having jungle fever so by me saying I don't blame him means I don't blame him for jungle fever not some other reason not mentioned in the comment

[–]DracoAzuleAA 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I enjoy all types of women.

But DAMN!

[–]torah_sam 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Check out Skin Diamond. She's a porn star and it's disgusting how gorgeous she is

[–]justacheesyguy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, you got the disgusting part right at least.

[–]SWEET_JESUS_NIPPLES 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel you man black chicks are fucking hot.

[–]I_love_black_girls 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes they are

[–]legolas420 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/blackchickswhitedicks

This sub is a thing too.

[–]TotesMessenger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This thread has been linked to from another place on reddit.

If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote. (Info / Contact)

[–]PoisonousPlatypus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sorry reddit for saying i like women of color

No, you should be sorry for saying you don't blame him for raping his slaves.

[–]purplemonkeyspank -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

is there literally a bloody subreddit for literally everything ?!

[–]bulk2win 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/stannisthemantis

[–]Fenderfreak145 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're goddamn right!

[–]outerdrive313 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

NSFW that shit man, my wife is right near me!

[–]freet0 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they're misunderstanding what you're not blaming him for. Because its ambiguous, it kinda sounds like you didn't blame him for owning slaves.

[–]Dieselbreakfast -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't ever like anything. Ever. Especially around here