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U-M reverses course, will show 'American Sniper' movie as scheduled (freep.com)

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[–]Wakkajabba 190 ポイント191 ポイント  (79子コメント)

Here's an idea: why don't they show the movie and then organize a debate about it afterwards? Isn't that the kind of shit colleges do?

[–]TheMancersDilema 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (27子コメント)

That was their proposed solution back when people first started making a fuss about it. No clue as to why they didn't think it was good enough.

[–]swollergic 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Because even having a critical discussion about Islam and its relations with other things is considered racism now.

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]wamsachel 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    a debate about it afterwards? Isn't that the kind of shit colleges do?

    Ahem, they're known as discussions and your participation counts as %10 of your final grade

    [–]TurboSalsa 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    No, because it makes some people uncomfortable it must not be shown at all. After all, colleges should not be preparing students to deal with uncomfortable situations in life, they should be teaching them how to sanitize their existence by bullying or petitioning those with differing opinions.

    [–]ZachofFables 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm guessing something involving the use of the term "triggers."

    [–]vichina 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They are doing that. There was a tweet somewhere, can't find it, but it will be held in a special forum to foster a safe space for disussion.

    Edit: Found it

    [–]improbablewobble 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Seriously. This is the perfect movie to discuss triggers.

    [–]Charles-Koch 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    As long as it is within the scope of relavance.

    [–]kelleymic 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I just hope the discussion is focused and on target.

    [–]BovineUAlum 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    We just dont want to overstretch the range of the discussion.

    [–]disillusionedJack 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    This story has certainly blown up in the last week.

    [–]TheyShootBeesAtYou[🍰] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I just caught wind of it, and I hope that it results in the elevation of positive public discourse.

    [–]disillusionedJack 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Movie critics went ballistic after leaving the theater.

    [–]TheyShootBeesAtYou[🍰] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've heard a lot of critiques of the movie, but most of their points ring hollow.

    [–]My_TraLa_La 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Just like those people.

    [–]Asahoshi 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thats not authoritarian enough for today's college crowd.

    [–]disillusionedJack 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (20子コメント)

    >expecting SJWs to engage in rational, moderated public discourse not on their own terms

    [–]popfreq 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    expecting SJWs to engage in rational, moderated public discourse not on their own terms

    The article says that it was cancelled based on protests by Muslims and Arabs. Michigan has a large number of Arabs, so it's safe to assume that that are a significant part of the Student body and the UM just wanted to did not want to offend them. I think it was a bad decision for a place of education to ban a movie that is considered co much a piece of art that it premiered in a museum, but SJWs had little to do with this.

    [–]uuhson 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The movie wasn't banned, they originally just decided not to screen it

    [–]moanerific 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    SJWs and Leftists are usually on the side of Muslims, regardless of their stances.

    Don't ask me why, but they stick up for cultures and customs which, logically, they should be against.

    The only reason I can think of is that it goes against the majority culture in the US. White, Christian, patriarchy and all that.

    [–]Aprilsfooled -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Maybe they are guilty of generalizations.

    What are you guilty of here?

    [–]moanerific 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Maybe guilty of recognizing obvious paradoxes in belief systems.

    [–]Aprilsfooled -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Which is what the "Leftists" and "SJWs" say they are doing, so congrats to you on having common ground with them. It's the first step in a dialog, right?

    And are you missing the irony of you saying that "they stick up for cultures and customs which, logically, they should be against." but then goes to glorify the US' "White Christian patriarchy" like if it was a good thing?

    You have so much in common with them! From the point of view of someone with no horses in that race, you sound exactly like the people you hate.

    [–]moanerific 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    When did I say I thought the US "White Christian patriarchy" was a good thing? Please show me where I said that.

    I'm just noting that the groups who supposedly stand up for women, LBGT, and other minority groups frequently ends up defending a culture that out-right murders those same groups.

    [–]Aprilsfooled -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    When did I say I thought the US "White Christian patriarchy" was a good thing?

    Not many people use "Leftist" like you did. Usually it's used by White Christian idiots, along with "Darwinists" and "Theory". I do apologize if I took you for one of them.

    I'm just noting that the groups who supposedly stand up for women, LBGT, and other minority groups frequently ends up defending a culture that out-right murders those same groups.

    Maybe because they aren't a monolith entity?

    [–]RenderUntoSeizure [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    What are you guilty of here?

    Stealing.... your mums heart

    [–]Eric1600 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Art? Hardly. Action movie, yes. Museum quality? No. It's ironic considering it was a fictional re-telling of events and people.

    [–]popfreq 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It premiered at the MOMA, before the general release.

    Edit: Not saying that it was the best movie of that year, just that it was considered noteworthy.

    [–]poonhounds 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    What year are you living in? Colleges are not forums for debate. The are institutions whose goal is to establish social justice and fight oppressive white male heteronormative right-wing ideology which has been responsible for all the suffering throughout history.

    What are you trying to say? You actually support fascism?

    RACIST! There is a racist here! where are the reddit moderators? Stop this anglo-patriarch from triggering offense to my vulnerable psyche.

    [–]dcgh96 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Not sure if sarcasm.

    [–]triedtostayaway 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That holds on to the belief that colleges allow for dissenting opinions.

    [–]david55555 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've not seen the movie, and I have no interest in it, and I don't know what the exact objections here are.

    However, you can't just show any movie you want and use it as a springboard for a debate. For one, the movie you show has to have substantive and meaningful stuff to talk about. A lot of stuff coming out of Hollywood these days doesn't. And secondly the movie has to be somewhat balanced in how it presents things. If you want to have a discussion/debate about Native American religions, why would you show a western shoot-em-up first? What does it offer? How does it inform? If you want to debate topic X, you don't start that debate by showing a 2-3 hour propaganda piece showing only one side of that subject.

    I got the impression that American Sniper was a rather pro-America pro-Western pro-Military propaganda type movie (which is what a lot of Hollywood stuff is like these days). Why would I expect to get thoughtful discussion after that movie?

    [–]DrAstralis 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "... I feel that 'American Sniper' condones a lot of anti-Middle Eastern and North African propaganda,". yeah, all those western propagandists forcing those innocent jihadists to post videos of them slaughtering people. how dare they.

    Trust me, islam is doing a good enough job of portraying its followers as savage, mindless, barbarians all on its own.

    And before the sjw's downvote this, no I'm not calling all adherents to islam barbarians. I'm pointing out that this is the image isil and all the other terror groups are doing a good enough job broadcasting to the world by themselves. No need for propaganda.

    [–]xFiction 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (13子コメント)

    The student -

    "Why would the school show a movie that makes me uncomfortable"

    Jesus Christ, U-M is a fucking huge school, God forbid someone do something to make her uncomfortable.

    [–]DineLointHarpie 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    What's next, should the UM library start burning books that make students uncomfortable. She's free to protest the movie, but don't try to censor it and block others from seeing it.

    [–]xFiction 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    My point exactly! If it makes you uncomfortable, don't see it. Problem solved

    [–]uuhson -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They were never banning the movie, thy were just not going to screen it anymore

    [–]swollergic 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Isn't the point of school to be challenged ideologically and intellectually?

    [–]Nice-MayMay 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism

    [–]Dame_Juden_Dench 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not since the 1960's.

    [–]UAZaqwert 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    There are 70,000 total students at Michigan. If 200 students can veto something, there would be nothing on campus. No movies, no music, no tv shows, no food, no anything.

    [–]price1869 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No fat chicks!

    (I'm rather ashamed at myself right now, but I'm posting anyway)

    [–]Dr_Eam 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Someone doesn't like KFC.

    BAN HIM!

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]Dirty_Donkey 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (25子コメント)

      I don't get why they had to try and get it removed. If you don't want to see it don't see it. Your dissatisfaction with the movie doesn't give you a free pass to deny anyone from seeing this. This is America and freedom means sometimes you are going to see shit you disagree with. When that happens you can have an open debate or use economic pressure to make changes. Stomping around and saying nobody can see this because I don't like it is childish and shows a lack of understanding of what freedom of speech/ expression is about. Hell I'd be fine with a protest outside the venue where they could express their views and hand out pamphlets but to block the movie is a bunch of crap.

      Also fuck those students for making me defend American Sniper, if anything that movie should be taken down because plastic babies offend me.

      コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

        [–]reldra 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Good. And the children who whine about an event they don't have to go to get a children's movie.

        [–]MackMizzo 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I love it. If you're going to be a petulant child, go watch Paddington with the other kids.

        [–]Jakoman7 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Isn't it mainly Muslim students?

        They should play "Wilbur" instead.

        [–]smoothtrip 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (38子コメント)

        Good to see them do the right thing.

        [–]TupperyNumnak 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        They only reversed it because the champ, Jim Harbaugh, still showed it to his football team.

        [–]garfnodie 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (36子コメント)

        I'm getting sick and tired of every non-white group in this country expecting everyone to bend over backwards kissing their ass.

        [–]fisherjoe 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I think this is an American issue in general, not sure why you think non-whites are the only types of people that get agitated like this. Whites are the most visible racial group in my experience when it comes to loud complaining.

        [–]stevesea -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        yeah... what? /u/garfnodie is just conveniently ignoring the religious right. White americans who want the ability to ignore the precedents set by the civil rights act in pursuit of persecuting gays in their public business establishments... then calling any opposition "religious discrimination."

        It's literally exactly what he's complaining about, highly topical and current, and he's ignoring it by implying that only minority groups in this country do it.

        It's fucking idiotic.

        [–]garfnodie 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I got lost here. Here's what I believe, everyone has the right to believe whatever they want, everyone has the right to be with whoever they want, and everyone has the right to live and be a productive member of society, no one has the right to stop anyone from doing the aforementioned. As long as something someone is doing doesn't stop you from doing the above mentioned things, no one has the right to stop you from doing it. The school showing American Sniper isn't going to stop anyone from getting and education, voting, working or living, so no one had any right to stop then from showing it. If they didn't like, they just didn't have to go.

        [–]SergeantStapler -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Uhh, you know most of this overly-sensitive business is caused by whites fearing that something will be perceived as racism, right? And why are so many people upvoting this comment? It's ignorant as hell.

        [–]garfnodie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        When you have black students calling racism because their white professor properly graded their paper taking off points for spelling and grammar mistakes, how are people not going to be afraid of offending people.

        コメントをもっと表示する (25 返事)

          [–]UAZaqwert 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Michigan has a total enrollment of what 70,000?

          A petition by 200 students is meaningless. I could get 200 signatures to demand anything.

          Universities (and hell everybody) needs to just ignore the outrage industry. There's always going to be a small group of cranks looking to be OUTRAGED about something, just ignore them.

          [–]run-a-muck -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          PCU

          [–]SP17F1R3 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Being wishy-washy about the whole thing just makes them look stupid. No one takes a stand anymore.

          [–]ItsHapppening -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          They were probably afraid of suicide bombers.

          [–]SP17F1R3 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Since they're reversed and are now showing it, they're probably afraid of white extremists.

          [–]ItsHapppening 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Or maybe they were getting tired of being shat on by everyone?

          [–]NowProveIt 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Good and the showing Paddington for those upset is perfect

          [–]galivantingturtles 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I like Ann Arbor but that city is insaine level liberal some times

          [–]multiple_throw_aways 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (45子コメント)

          I feel like people forget that protesting is also protected by the freedom of speech.

          [–]Armiel 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Nobody is saying they don't have the right to protest. "You're wrong." ≠ "You shouldn't be allowed to speak."

          [–]nvkylebrown 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yes, a key point. You can protest, or counter-protest, but you can't shut the other side down.

          [–]jordanb18 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (29子コメント)

          Yeah they have every right to protest, but it doesn't mean whoever they are protesting has to do what they demand.

          [–]multiple_throw_aways 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (27子コメント)

          That's why I wrote, "also protected." The school has the right to show the movie. I just thought it was important to say because a lot of people will demonize the protesting students, which is contradictory because the school is practicing the same right.

          [–]ZachofFables 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          "Demonizing" is also protected by freedom of speech.

          [–]multiple_throw_aways 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Yes, but my point was to demonize one is like demonizing the other. If your argument is that the school has the freedom to show the movie then you must also say that the students have the freedom to say they shouldn't.

          [–]nvkylebrown 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          No, they can say it's wrong, but saying it shouldn't be shown is shutting down the debate, essentially. Its on the same lines as not allowing certain speakers on campus, which is a hairline away from not allowing certain opinions on campus, which is flat out repression.

          Disagreement --> OK

          Shut up! --> not ok

          [–]EnigmaticTortoise 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          And we're free to mock them for being idiots.

          [–]multiple_throw_aways -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yes, but the way in which you do it may weaken your argument while strengthening theirs.

          [–]UAZaqwert 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          You have the right to protest, you don't have the right to get your way. Your protest can be completely ignored and ridiculed.

          [–]Dame_Juden_Dench 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Here's the problem that a lot of people seem to be missing when we talk about the ridiculousness of the protest:

          It's not so much the protesting, and nobody is saying that someone shouldn't be allowed to protest. It's that the reason for protesting is fucking retarded, and the capitulation to the protestors does nothing but set a precedent that no matter how unreasonable a group is being, all they have to do is bitch loud enough.

          Too many people keep spouting off about "Oh, well protesting is also freedom of speech! Gotcha there, rethuglicans!". But I'll just point you to the same argument that people on reddit use against anyone who isn't a college liberal "freedom of speech isn't freedom of criticism/consequences". If you're a college aged adult, and you seriously think that it's morally justifiable behavior, or even empowering behavior, to petition that nobody be allowed to view or participate in a harmless voluntary activity, because it makes you personally uncomfortable, rather than simply not attending the activity yourself, then you are an emotionally stunted, spoiled child.

          More than that, there is a cultural in the West these days that has been steadily growing where rather than simply saying "No", people apologize, capitulate, and and beg forgiveness any time they are faced with a complaint from a special interest group. Then, because people see that this is an effective tactic, they pitch a fit anywhere and everywhere, over anything and everything, until they get what they want. I'm not that old, but goddamn are people in this whole hemisphere increasingly acting like children screaming at their mothers until they get their candy.

          It's the same kind of attitude that makes people thing "cyberbullying" is a problem. Rather than just not participating, or walking away, they just keep fucking engaging. Like, if a movie bothers you that much, just don't fucking watch it. If people post mean things on twitter, then don't spend so much time on it. It's like nobody wants to have any agency in their lives, they just want to grow up and have an increasingly large number of bodies of authority to replace their parents, so they never have to do anything for themselves.

          [–]TurboSalsa 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          They're free to protest, they're not free to impose their will upon the entire student body. They most certainly do not have the right to not be offended.

          [–]multiple_throw_aways 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I do not think that signing a petition is equal to, "imposing their will." A petition is a request, not an order.

          [–]TurboSalsa 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Perhaps "will" was the wrong word to use, but I think there is a large subset of college students who protest things like this on no other grounds than "it makes me uncomfortable."

          [–]multiple_throw_aways 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          That might be true in this case, but because I am not a Muslim student that attends the University of Michigan I wouldn't know.

          [–]uuhson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I don't understand how that takes away from their right to protest

          [–]Janus408 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          But what happens when someone is protesting against free speech.

          Because that's basically what happened here.

          [–]cipahs 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          There's a lot of candy assed communist pussies in these comments.

          America - 1

          Hippies - 0

          [–]bicameral_mind 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Good, really tired of the way Universities bend over to students and student groups.

          At the University I work at a student group is leading a divestment initiative to get the University to stop investing in companies they feel are violating the human rights of Palestinians. Responsible investing. Way to go kids! That'll have a real impact!

          Not...

          [–]kaisao 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Glad as it is censorship and this is coming from someone who doesn't want to ever see the movie.

          Sadly most people are hypocrites when it comes to censorship.

          [–]christhelpme 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I love how the OTHER movie they are showing for the ones who were bothered by this one is Paddington.

          "The movie will be shown at the originally scheduled time and location. We recognize, however, that some students are uncomfortable with the content of the movie, and appreciate that concern.

          "Therefore, the university also will show an alternative movie, "Paddington," in another location on campus at that same time and date to provide our students with additional options that evening."

          [–]electricfoxx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Actually, (though I disagree with its message) I think it would be a perfect movie for a university. It deals with current politics and causes people to think. Example: You can read Mein Kampf without endorsing Nazism.

          [–]Star-Lord11 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm glad they changed their minds since the reason for the protest for changing the movie was stupid.

          [–]Rihannas_forehead 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It's come to the point where they have to show a children's movie (Paddington Bear) in an University as to not hurt feelings. These are adults.

          [–]abruer18 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Good. I thought this movie was garbage, but I wouldn't have a real reason to think that if I hadn't seen it.

          [–]misterAction -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          They can dish it out but they can't take it

          [–]vichina 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          You're going to need to explain that further. Who is THEY and what are THEY dishing out?

          [–]Bitterestvet -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The movie is crass garbage glorifying perhaps the least impressive 'war hero' in recent history. But even misguided and outright vile media like Birth of a Nation are viewed and discussed in higher education. Why not this stupid little piece of Hollywood revisionism?

          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)