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Hugging Is Beta

May 21, 2014 by CH
The subject of hugs as a social lubricant surfaced recently in the comments. Before continuing, I’ll say that hugs as a tactile ploy to quickly escalate physical comfort with a girl is an entirely different matter than hugs as they are used by girls when meeting friends or even loosely affiliated acquaintances. The former is an established game technique; the latter is, well… emasculating.
Gadfly Amy writes,
This is an interesting observation. I hug people all the time, and you are right, the “alpha” guys don’t really hug back. They don’t freeze up and act uncomfortable or nervous… they just don’t physically react. They make me do the work.
Hugging is all the rage in SWPL-land. And it’s something I could do without. But some social forces are so deeply ingrained that even the mighty iconoclast you know and luv, Highlander Heartiste, must bend to the will of the herd.
Although hugging is a great kino escalation tactic, in nearly every other context it’s phony and suspiciously emasculating. People (mostly women) feel the pressure to hug, and like lemmings they dive right over the personal space cliff to hug everybody from exes to bosses to friends of friends to friends of friends of boss exes. Whatever import accompanied the practice has long ago been stripped mined from it by perfunctory overuse.
Hugging is Depo-Provera for the Androgyne Generation. It’s the final snippity snip of soft castration for men whose testes are already halfway ascended to their diaphragms. It’s a comforting boundary in a world of hair-trigger offense, and a reprieve from busting a move to get the girl.
Hyperbole? Ok, try imagining Don Draper hugging Peggy or Joan or his secretary du jour every time they got together at a party. Try picturing James Bond hugging a woman he had no intention of seducing into bed. Try imagining your father, or your grandfather, or this guy, asexually hugging women at a backyard barbeque.
It is to laugh.
Fact: If you aren’t initiating hugs to fast-track a familiarity that can be leveraged into quick seductions, or you aren’t hugging a girl as post-coital homage to her bedside acrobatics or sympathy for her dead grandma, then the hug you are receiving is beta.
Naturally, if I have to put up with hugging I’m gonna press in real close if the hugger is a cute girl with a big rack. That’s called making smoosh juice out of lemons. And lemons it is, because hugging, besides feeling like a coerced gesture to which one submissively relents, is in most ways subtly desexualizing. I don’t know when or how the practice got to be the go-to social greeting among self-regarding liberal whites (aka alien grays), but I’ve no doubt that many women now deploy it as a means of preemptively dissipating any simmering sexual energy that might radiate from a man who still has stones knocking between his legs.
In some cases, the sexual energy she subconsciously seeks to dissipate is her own. Which is flattering to the man, until he stops to think that the hug is basically the girl pulling a Heisman on him.
Exceptions exist. Hugging is occasionally an overt come-on by a girl who wants to communicate her sexual intent using tools deemed safe and plausibly deniable by broad social acceptance. If you can tell that’s happening to you, then by all means welcome that hug and let your hand drop to the top of her ass.
But more often, hugging is a female power move to claim control of a man’s beastly sexuality. It’s emasculating in the sense that the hugger feels so at ease in your company, so blissfully unthreatened by your percolating sexuality, that she can swoop right into your flaccid body and press her supple flesh into your spirit house. Not in your house? Oh yes, in your house.
The female hug is a nonverbal message delivery vehicle. It can say “Wow, I like this guy and just want to feel his strong swaying manboobs”, or, more typically for your average SWPL betaboy who must entertain upwards of ten friendzone hugs per day, it says, “Wow, this guy is such a team player, but just in case he’s got life left in that microbone of his, I’m gonna arouse him with the proximity of my body and drink of his nourishing despair as he realizes the extent of his paralyzed impotence.”
You don’t want to be that guy. But what to do when the world is hug-happy and refusal would assuredly consign you to the disinvite list?
Based on what I’ve seen charming alphas do, there are two effective countermeasures. One, you can do as Amy observed, and let your body hang in languid repose, forcing the girl by your inaction to assume all the sexual pre-penetrative tension that is always bubbling not far underneath the polite veneer of a hug. Call it, “amused receivership”. The trick is to substitute calm indifference for rigid discomfort. Done right, it’s a great way to non-verbally wedge a girl into the “chaser” role. She’ll feel like she’s doing all the work, so you as a man must be worth it.
The other method requires a more cantankerous personality. When she moves in for the hug, agree and amplify. As she’s hugging, let your hands roam over her back and hips. Exaggerate your pleasure for the entertainment of the crowd or for your own amusement. Smile like you’re getting a hummer and press harder into her. Moan a little. Sexualize the hug. Accuse her of copping a cheap feel, or making you feel dirty. Force her world to accommodate your insolent penile aura. She’ll either be aroused by your manly effrontery and begin to contemplate unclothed transactions with you, or she’ll be thrown into a state of perturbation and think twice before hugboxing you again as if you were a little eunuch doll.
Either way, you win. If the second method should scandalize the gathered, prep them with a clownish attitude. This way there’s less chance they’ll mistake your gropings for anything but physical humor. If she, or her friends, really chafe at your impudence, you shouldn’t be hanging with such uptight pussies anyhow.
Amy continues,
How do your girl friends greet you, then? How do you expect/want them to greet you?
I don’t press up against guys when I hug them, it’s a greeting type hug, quick, and I usually kiss them on the cheek. The only exception is if I’m really glad to see them for a specific reason, i.e. the other night I saw a friend of mine who just recovered from a freak illness that almost killed him. I was so happy to see him out and looking healthy that I hugged him hard. But I don’t think anyone would confuse that with a sexual advance.
You underestimate the proclivity of men to interpret all variety of female attention as a cry for copulation. But to your question, long-time close girl friends I have no intention of fucking may get a hug now and then. Mostly though, there is a tacit understanding that it’s cool to get together without having to grease the friendship wheel with gobs of histrionic symbols of affection.
The French have it right, like they do in so many matters of intersex politesse. If you must have a physical greeting with women you aren’t fucking, the lean in, arm grab, and air kiss on the cheek is sufficient. Otherwise, just chill and go for the high five, pulling away at the last second leaving her hand flapping in empty air, after which you execute the “who’s gay” finishing move.
Failing that, there’s always the fist bump, a gesture which ironically works a lot better to establish your alluring dominance when used on girls than on male friends.
Posted in Beta, Culture, Girls, Ridiculousness, Rules of Manhood | 261 Comments

261 Responses

    • Totally relative.
      I hug mine female friends because it’s more wothless to have them on mine “arem” and as a tool to social proof than to have sex with them, we have real “brotherage”, they pay me things and really enjoy mine company and I honor them by being the perfect black knight friend, I dont listen to their shit and yet they dont try to make me listen to it, they just gave me problems that they know I’ll have the solution.
      What is best? Have sex once with a 8/10 and after that have to work a lot to have others 8.5+?
      Or let that 8/10 work for you and with that get a lot of 8+ easily?
      The hugs that the majority receive is different than mine.
      I receive the real loyal friend hug, the hug that they know that my SMV is much higher than hers and she is the friendzoned.
      The hug that others receive are the social hug to make they still fighting for they attention and think she is doing a open to them.
      He have words and have words, totally relative.
      Woman are really loyal to the ones that they see that are trustworth.

  2. I prefer to smack chicks on the ass when I meet them. “Howdie! and then a SMACK! right on the backside”
    My close rate is 92.462%

  3. on May 21, 2014 at 9:49 am Hair Slicked Back With Swag So Fresh
    Girls hug you so they can press their cunts against your junk.

    • i love you man. no homo

    • had a hot excited girl grab my arm and press it against her boobs..it looked like we were hugging but we were just molesting each other with happy faces…

    • Exactly. Or if you’re sitting in a hightop/bar chair, and they can’t do that, they hug you so they can slide their hands down your arms afterwards, then resting their hands on your forearms for a few moments longer than could be considered innocuous.
      A lot of how girls hug you has to do with your internals, and how you interpret their motivations the first time they try to hug you. Like another commenter said below, you condition them to do (or not do) what you want (or don’t want).

      • on May 21, 2014 at 12:10 pm The Burninator
        Yeah, the arm/chest/back/shoulder touching is quite obvious when girls come over to me. I’ve even used the “rape!” line on a girl last week when she was obviously feeling up my arms (thanks to whorefinder for introducing me to rape jokes). It provoked a lot of giggles from her and the surrounding party.

      • @The Burninator:
        I go where I am needed.
        And also, where kneegroes need a-hangin’.
        rape!

      • on May 23, 2014 at 7:51 am Ras Al Ghul
        ZS, just keep it simple.
        When a girl hugs you all you have to say with a smirk is “Quit trying to cop a feel.”
        Gets that excited girl laugh every time and the girl tries to touch you more not less.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 12:16 pm Zombie Shane
      > “Girls hug you so they can press their cunts against your junk.”
      This.
      ATTN all Moms lurking at the Chateau: Teach your little girls that
      Hugging => DTF
      And therefore that
      Not DTF => No Hugging
      [That’s called the “contrapositive”.]
      Finally, if you’re a Mom, and if you don’t know what “DTF” means, then go here:

      • You crack me up, Shane.

      • Lol, I don’t know what kind of hugs you’re talking about, but a greeting type hug doesn’t involve pelvic contact and it definitely doesn’t suggest the girl is DTF. I give the same type hug to everyone. In fact if it’s a guy I’m attracted to I’ll probably make it even LESS touchy.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 1:12 pm Zombie Shane
        For the other situation which Heartiste is talking about – the SWPL female employing the hug as a means of emasculating the beta SWPL male – go Old School on her ass and call her out on her manners.
        YOU: “Whoa, whoa, whoa, that’s getting a little close there, honey.”
        SHE: “Huh, what?”
        YOU: “The huggy huggy thing.”
        SHE: “I don’t get it. What’s the problem?”
        YOU: “The problem is that I’m a man and you’re a woman, and that huggy huggy stuff just ain’t appropriate.”
        CONT.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 1:15 pm Zombie Shane
        CONT.
        SHE: “Oh my God, don’t be such a prude. That’s ridiculous.”
        YOU: “Baby, I ain’t your cocker spaniel. I’m a man.”
        And if you’ve had a can of beer or a glass of wine, and you’ve relaxed a little, and gone into full-blown smart ass mode, and if you can get up your courage, then you stare her straight in the eye, and you lower your voice, and you say, in dead seriousness,
        YOU: “Baby, when the time comes that I’m holding you in my arms like that, ain’t neither one of use gonna be wearing any clothes.”
        And then you turn around and walk away.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 1:57 pm Zombie Shane
        Amy, if I were your boyfriend, and if I saw you squishing your tits up against some other dude [who wasn’t me], then your sorry ass would immediately become my ex-girlfriend.
        Here’s a word to the wise amongst your sex [assuming that wisdom can even exist within your sex, which is probably a pretty bad assumption]: No man worth having is going allow himself to suffer the humiliation of seeing you squish your tits up against another man.
        That’s just about the ultimate shit test which you can throw at a man [short of out-right cuckolding him with a child which isn’t his], and any guy with balls larger than two grains of sand simply won’t put up with it.

      • Lol. ZS, you need to get out more. Seriously.
        You know what kind of guy flips out if his girl greets men with a quick platonic hug?
        Jealous betas.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 7:02 pm The Undiscovered Jew
        Lol, I don’t know what kind of hugs you’re talking about, but a greeting type hug doesn’t involve pelvic contact and it definitely doesn’t suggest the girl is DTF. I give the same type hug to everyone. In fact if it’s a guy I’m attracted to I’ll probably make it even LESS touchy.
        If I didn’t know better I’d assume your half-hearted trolling is an attempt to attract attention to yourself.

  4. In my experience, another hug exception is when the girl does a sort of full body hug where she’s off the ground and drapes her arms and legs around you

    • that’s practically a dry hump. run with it!

    • “Sexualize the hug.”
      Make her the doll. Pick her up so her tits are in line with your face, spin her around and then pretend like you’re going to drop her. Tell her she’s heavier than she looks.

      • told a bitch she was “denser than she looked” after i picked her up. hate fucked me for a week.

  6. Huggin is beta.
    You know what bodily action is definitively NOT beta?
    …
    (man, Heartiste really t’s these up for me, no?)

  7. on May 21, 2014 at 10:12 am The Burninator
    Not a lot of hugging goes on in my circles, outside of a few men slapping each other on the back in some kind of “who can beat the wind out of the other first” fake hug, and even that’s kinda rare. Chicks I know here generally will make it a point to touch you though, in greeting. Come up to my side, slip her arm around my waist, bend her elbow and run her hand up my back, say hi and smile, that kind of “totally feeling me up in public” thing. What they do between themselves, not sure, I do think I’ve seen some hugs between BFF’s. Might be an age thing too, maybe it’s just the really young girls doing it, dunno, kind of outside of my realm of experience, at least as its presented in the article.

  8. There has to be some sort of hierarchy of hugs.
    Useful hug — girl you don’t know well, underneath her arms so she has to drape hers around your neck. Sets precedent for sensual contact.
    Useful hug move 2 — for when a girl initiates hugs with you. Here I guess not hugging back is alpha; I also like morphing it into a hand on the small of her back. Like, stand there and let her hug you, lift one hand to ‘hug’ her back….then just move it down and stand there like a couple for a sec facing whoever else is around. Instant social proof.
    Useful AMOG hug — I go back and forth on this, but I actually think touching other guys and getting in their space is a DHV. Pats on the back, lean on a shoulder with an elbow propped up, an over-the-neck-headlock-hug.

    • “Useful AMOG hug — I go back and forth on this, but I actually think touching other guys and getting in their space is a DHV. Pats on the back, lean on a shoulder with an elbow propped up, an over-the-neck-headlock-hug.”
      very effective for betas AMOG’ing betas. tru dat.

      • lol I’m still trying to filter out the signal from the noise in watching interactions among naturals and stuff. there’s definitely a DHV way to do it tho

      • there is an easy way to tell…..if you think you might get your ass kicked by touching a guy….he’s the alpha ;)

    • on May 21, 2014 at 11:55 am The Burninator
      “Useful hug move 2 — for when a girl initiates hugs with you. Here I guess not hugging back is alpha; I also like morphing it into a hand on the small of her back. Like, stand there and let her hug you, lift one hand to ‘hug’ her back….then just move it down and stand there like a couple for a sec facing whoever else is around. Instant social proof.
      That’s solid. Also establishes a level of “ownership” of her, to her, as well I’d think.
      Useful AMOG hug — I go back and forth on this, but I actually think touching other guys and getting in their space is a DHV. Pats on the back, lean on a shoulder with an elbow propped up, an over-the-neck-headlock-hug.
      Depends on the context. The bikers I hang with sometimes do the “knock the wind out of you, you pussy” type of pretend hug. Grab your hand in a handshake, pull each other in close through the grip, beat the hell out of the other guys back with one solid thump, back away, usually a 1 second or less act. Kind of communicates “brotherhood” in the sense of “gang” to those watching, which seems to me to be a DHV. Generally though I think you’re spot on, regular guys hugging in the sense of actual hugging is gay to the n-th degree, assuming they’re not very close family.

      • ‘Generally though I think you’re spot on, regular guys hugging in the sense of actual hugging is gay to the n-th degree, assuming they’re not very close family.’
        Oh for sure. The only guy I actually hug is someone I’ve just known since we were 5…he’s pretty much family.
        Useful hug #3: for a girl you’re smashing/like/whatever….no contact at all for the entire night/outing, and then suddenly come up behind her and put your hands around her waist and give her a kiss on the neck. That’s a money hug, for those of you who like to be more tender or whatever. Just remember not to linger.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 12:14 pm The Burninator
        By regular guys, I mean betas acting gay or like they’re 13. If you’re using it as a tool to display dominance then right, agree.

  9. the kamasutra (200 C.E.) on betas:
    “And the clear signs of a man’s addiction to her are that he trusts her with his true feelings, lives in the same way as she does, carries out her plans, is without suspicion and has no concern for money matters.”
    “Once he is hooked, she can control him. When a man is too deeply addicted to her, he fears that she will make love with another man, and he disregards her lies. And, because of his fear, he gives her a lot.”
    1. Keep your feelings to yourself. If you must share them, do it with friends or do it here on the webz anonymously.
    2. Live your life like a man. e.g. no girly hugs. Every beta hug destroys a HB tingle somewhere in the universe.
    3. Focus on your plans. She’s just along for the ride. She’ll only plan if your frame is weak.
    4. Trust but verify. Actually, don’t even trust. She’s a woman and she lies constantly. Get used to it.
    5. Money does matter. If she thinks you’re lucky to have her she’ll spend it all. Hypergamy dictates that she must feel like the lucky one.
    6. Flip the script. She must fear not only that you’ll make love with another woman, but that you’ll fall in love too.
    7. Take it all. The more you give her the less she’ll respect you. Make her work for you.

  10. on May 21, 2014 at 10:25 am CAPSLOCK HUSTLA
    WHEN SHE GOES IN FOR THE HUG, YOU COULD ALSO PULL HER HAIR GENTLY WITH ONE HAND AND CUP HER FEMINIST REGION WITH THE OTHER.
    PRETTY SURE I READ ABOUT THAT MOVE EITHER HERE OR IN THE BIBLE.

  11. Playfully sexualizing it is good. What CH said or, when she goes to hug you, just lift her up off her feet and walk away with her, saying “you asked for it.”

    • Amy, all sorts of hugs have all sorts of motives behind them, wouldn’t you agree? A guy should be able to tell. If she is rigid the whole time, it’s a friend hug and not much going on with it. But if she relaxes herself in to it, that’s a totally different deal.
      I had a very cute thing with long black hair hug me after we hadn’t seen each other in a while. After, she stood much closer than necessary. Now that was a good hug indeed.

      • Right, but my hugs are light greeting type hugs. It never crossed my mind that some guys might see this as emasculating. I don’t mean it that way at all. It’s just a friendly way to greet someone.

  12. “Failing that, there’s always the fist bump, a gesture which ironically works a lot better to establish your alluring dominance when used on girls than on male friends.”
    I’ve honestly never done that. Other than a subtle way of treating them like one of your buds, why do you figure this is a more dominant display.
    Not chapping ass, sincerely curious.

  13. CH, I’ve had a change of heart about your post. Hugging _can_ be beta, but isn’t necessarily so. It all depends on the nature of the frame. For example, if the woman sets an asexual frame with a single man, then the hug is beta. If it’s an asexual frame with a married man, then the hug is indeterminate. If the man has set a dominant frame, say, when the couple are dancing, then the hug _may_ be a qualifier that the man is alpha. For instance, if the woman says, “You make me look so good,” then the hug is alpha since she is acknowledging that his value is higher than hers.
    Understanding hugs can be complicated.

  14. on May 21, 2014 at 10:58 am Just Saying
    @Amy: How do your girl friends greet you, then?
    Depends – most of the time by climbing into the car, or walking over and sitting next to me. We’ll be getting physical soon enough – right now it’s all foreplay – so stroking the back of her hand is enough to let her know I’ll be stroking other things later. No need to rush to the main-course just yet – we have hours of play to come. Although if a woman does hug, I pull her against me tight, and slide a hand down the back of her jeans and into her underwear to grab a cheek and give a squeeze. She’s mine and if she wants others to see that – I see no reason to leave it open to question or misinterpretation. (If any of the women I see read that, they will know that it is me that wrote it as more than a few have told me that I’m the only one that gets away with that. But then, I get away with a lot – just the way they like it.)
    But hey, that’s just me, and it’s not really something I think about. It’s a habit – and one that has been more than a little embarrassing at times when the young lady wasn’t expecting it. But hey – if you want to play the game, every guy has different rules that you’ll have to play by. And I’m too old to change my strips – or play the foolish little female games by their rules.

  15. “Ok, try imagining Don Draper hugging Peggy or Joan or his secretary du jour every time they got together at a party.”
    Adobe Flash Player or an HTML5 supported browser is required for video playback.
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    Jump to about a minute in for the fireworks. It’s Draper handling a mouthy bitch like a boss, but you could turn your hug into this as well.

  16. Hugging is appropriate with waitresses and it works wonders for your self amusement. Did this last week.
    When they ask you, “So, what can I get you tonight?” reply,”How about a hug?”
    Puts them on the spot lol. If she’s a bitch type and isn’t smiling or gives you a shit test, say, “I didn’t want one, my buddy here did,” or, “I didn’t mean from you, just in general.” If she’s cool with it, proceed with the hug.
    My waitress turned red as f#ck but she did give me a big-tittie hug. Doing shit like this puts me in a good mood for the night of drinking with my buddies.

      • Said with a self amused smirk where I’m not opening my arms like a beta and turning to her eagerly awaiting a crumb, but rather still drinking my beer with my body toward my table to the side of her, isn’t beta. Besides, when you’re confident enough, you can bend the “rules” (as you think hugging is) like Neo and get away with it like a boss. And that’s the thing about the red pill – once you see it fully, you can damn near do anything that might be beta and get away with it because of the way you carry yourself. Ex. if you’re shy and unsure, don’t go painting your fingernails black and go to a bar. If you’re Mystery, it helps you get laid.

  17. The French have it right, like they do in so many matters of intersex politesse. If you must have a physical greeting with women you aren’t fucking, the lean in, arm grab, and air kiss on the cheek is sufficient.
    Actually they often slobber on the girl’s cheek. And pretend they weren’t doing anything other than say hello. The French have an ill-deserved reputation for being romantic, poetic, etc – in reality they often act like leering, drooling Arabs. It’s not as bad as in a country like Tunisia, where a twenty-something man can unbutton his pants and start jerking off in the street at the sight of an attractive woman with uncovered hair (happened to a half-Arab girl I know, who went there to visit her less genetically blessed relatives), but still.

    • Groids do that here too. They call it “killing”.

    • hot white girls love them some Muzzies.
      not all full of excuses.

    • Indeed, French and Italian men are smelly, greasy, bad teeth having pieces of garbage, but our American women are brainwashed into loving them and loving “traveling” to Italy and France, even after the Amanda Knox catastrophe. They love the French accent.

      • The American girl overseas for the first time is one of the saddest things. Non-American Westerners (and the Arabs and Africans that speak English) hone in on the accent like nothing else, and the girl has no idea what’s going on. Thinks she’s getting attention because she’s special and European men are so much better than our men. Really, y’all just think we’re whores.
        When I was living in Japan, this happened to me sometimes. I’d shut it down with a direct “we’re not going to fuck tonight” comment and a joke about guns.
        I never traveled to screw, and I don’t think many girls do. They just get a lot of attention, and soak it up.

    • You’re supposed to cover your hair if you’re a woman there. Duh.

  18. on May 21, 2014 at 11:15 am hole in one
    OT
    aotm candidate
    Rory McIlroy has called off his engagement and ended his relationship with tennis star and girlfriend Caroline Wozniacki.
    “The wedding invitations issued at the weekend made me realize that I wasn’t ready for all that marriage entails.”
    Got a glimpse of the monster?

  19. on May 21, 2014 at 11:17 am Reservoir Tip
    I’ve never liked hugs, so tell me what you think of this.
    Normally when a girl is prepping for a hug, or expecting me to open up for one, I Shake their hand instead. I can see the look of surprise in their face every time.
    I guess they could take it as a beta-type fear of contact, but I generally keep contact up on dates anyway.
    It seems more to me like setting and maintaining my frame. Instead of hugs being fruity and uncomfortable for me, I give them a handshake that does the exact same thing for them, sans the fruit.
    Hugging is just so…. Gay.

    • Normally when a girl is prepping for a hug, or expecting me to open up for one, I Shake their hand instead. I can see the look of surprise in their face every time.
      I do that too, if I find her attractive or she’s living in town. It’s because you’re basically LJBFing / DQing them.

  20. No tenderness, no warmth, no nothing?

  21. At last! A woman who speaks the truth! A breath of fresh air! Heartiste, can you comment on this non-feminista and non-lawyercunt woman? This just proves that women really loves the jerkboy’s charisma.
    A comment from a woman who got a degree is fucking hilarious.. She got degrees and ‘already mature’ so she thinks she will never ever be attracted to the jerkboy. The truth is, considering her appearance (checked her fb and the fact that she is already is way past the wall) no jerkboy will try to hit on her on the first place! SMH with this lady.

  22. Subtly conditioning the rather aimless exchange of a casual hug into a sexual gateway is a proven method. Over the course of a few months I conditioned the wife of an acquaintance, who I rarely visited, and managed to transmute these brief moments of asexual physical contact into prolonged moments of hyper-sexual engagement.
    She’d place her arms around my neck and work her mouth and chin into my chest – but briefly. I’d place my mouth by her ear, hands at my side. Over time I worked my right hand firmly on her lower back, my left on her hip. If she wore tight jeans or clothing with belt loops, I’d place my hand on her hip with my thumb in the loop. If she wore any type of fabric sash or belt around her hips, I’d slip my hand under it. If she was in a long coat, I’d open it and place my hand inside.
    It got to the point where we would stand like that, interlocked, for well over thirty seconds at a time. She’d even start to casually talk to the people around us about whatever mundane nonsense she could muster in order deflect attention away from the obvious. I wouldn’t say a word. We hugged like this in front of mutual friends, in front of her husband, and in front of my girlfriend at the time.
    Not only did I condition HER, I seemed to have conditioned EVERYONE ELSE to accept that kind of prolonged intimate contact to the point that it was seen as natural, non-threatening act (even though everyone could obviously see what was happening).
    Though the conditioning was deliberate, the end result followed naturally and seemingly without effort. Initially, I had no desire to have sex with this woman. I never spoke or met with her outside the company of her husband or friends. One night, during a couples get together at her apartment, with her husband asleep on the couch, I had sex with her and my girlfriend in their bedroom. I left the bedroom with my girlfriend at approximately 4 A.M. and fell asleep with her on the couch opposite the husband. The wife remained in the bedroom. In the morning, her husband made us all breakfast as though nothing happened.
    Aloofness, in conjunction with brazen and careless physical escalation, permitted me to crash through the bounds of the social conventions that serve as bulwarks against the innate seductive power of a man who pushes the envelope, even if its just to see how far it can be pushed. Better yet, to create NEW social conventions (within the microcosm of our group) and bring everyone observing aboard.

    • “thats just how he is” WORKS because thats just how they are ;)
      making it OK yareally style lol.

    • damn man. You and Just Saying should wing for each other.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 6:00 pm gunslingergregi
      I think I basically have permission to fuck my chick buddy from when younger from her boyfriend
      i’m not going to

      • on May 21, 2014 at 6:02 pm gunslingergregi
        but most chicks and especially good looking chicks will always have a boyfriend you can count on that

    • “Not only did I condition HER, I seemed to have conditioned EVERYONE ELSE to accept that kind of prolonged intimate contact to the point that it was seen as natural, non-threatening act (even though everyone could obviously see what was happening).”
      That’s not how it works. You didn’t “condition” people, they simply accepted your gesture. Had this girl’s husband been alpha, nothing would have happened.
      In other words, they let you do it.

      • Acceptance IS conditioning. At first, the gesture seemed odd. Over time, and repeated exposure, it no longer seemed odd – but natural. A visual cue of intimacy, that once evoked suspicion and disapproving glances, became a visual cue that evoked feelings of familiarity and normalcy. By definition, conditioning is the act of training or accustoming someone or something to behave in a certain way or to accept certain circumstances.

  23. If you must hug a chick always give the 1000 yard distant stare.
    And wtf with the epidemic of bro hugging? Freaking gay. Waiting for bro hug to incorporate a dainty lift of the foot backwards

    • If you must hug a chick always give the 1000 yard distant stare.
      Yes. As if you’re saying, “meh, whatever”
      And wtf with the epidemic of bro hugging? Freaking gay. Waiting for bro hug to incorporate a dainty lift of the foot backwards
      Again, I sometimes do that to DQ and confuse them.

  24. With regards to the humor option, don’t forget the “Hug-Job”.
    Like the Hand or Blow variety, except you use your arms as the stimulator and her body as the stimulated object. It immediately sexualizes the situation.

  26. Something I sometimes do with petite girls when I anticipate the hug is this:
    1) turn your body slightly so that they are hugging you a bit from the side instead of frontally
    2) answer their hug with one arm
    3) out of nowhere, lift them up with your one arm & then pretend like you’ve completely forgotten about them, leaving them darting their legs in the air.
    4) make them get your attention and playfully pretend you honestly forgot about them.
    5) start teasing them with the fact that they’re so small and lightweight

  27. When a girl gives you the hug, grab her ass ask ask her if she’s been working out.

  28. lol just don’t lean in like a desperate chode, that’s all. Let her come to you, let her hug into you as you lean back the same way you’d let your child hug your leg as you’re taking off your jacket as you arrive home from a hard day at work.
    I usually just use one arm around her lower back and often I’m already acknowledging someone more important to me beside her (like a guy friend we both know) as she’s hugging me, or I’ll just drop a “hey babe how you been” to her (casual “babe” not lovey-dovey lol).
    Being able to comfortably throw an arm around a girl as she comes in for a hug and not freeze up all stiff or wrap your arms around her like she’s the first womanly contact you’ve had since your mom hugged you as a child is just showing her (and anyone watching, which is the more important part because girls ARE watching how you handle yourself around even casual female acquaintances) “hey, I’m comfortable around female bodies, I touch them all the time, this is no big deal to a guy like me”.
    Refusing to hug is like going to a strip club and refusing to look at the girls lol You can DO that, but it’s kind of weird compared to just casually unapologetically checking the girls out like “ahh, I’m used to naked hotties around me, I appreciate this chick’s sexiness, this is no big deal to me”. Leaning in for the hug and wrapping both arms around and shit is like being the kid in the stripclub in pervert’s row hooting and hollering at the first pair of tits you’ve ever seen.

    • Good points. I wouldn’t totally refuse the hug, arms at my side and all, unless it was given by a chick I despised. If it’s a female acquaintance who fancies you and is nice enough, but not particularly hot, why not nonchalantly return the hug like you’re doing her a favor (which you are). Your ease, comfort, indifference, and magnanimity with this is a DHV to everyone around you, especially chicks. And with chicks you might be interested in fucking, you can subtly push it a little when they initiate the hug, so long as you’re smooth, languid, and indifferent – just be sure to exude that hot chicks are always trying to press their bodies into you, per usual, so it’s no big deal…but you might let this particular chick fuck you.
      Always good to see opportunity where others see only a hassle.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 1:10 pm Charlie Don't Surf
      If a girl gives me a hug I see no reason to reject it – I simply won’t let go. I’m happy to carry her around like a baby-bjorn for the rest of the night. Sure, she might squirm a little at first – but she’ll typically relax into it after a moment – and you haven’t broken the sexual tension. Think of the preselection – imagine gaming girls while wearing one around your neck. Hugging isn’t beta – letting go is.

    • YaReally’s reply is dead on. Hugging isn’t inherently betaizing, but getting weirded out by physical contact with a female is definitely beta (or worse).
      Sometimes I will give a girl the casual arm around lower back hug and “sup girlie how you been” type greeting and then go back to bullshitting/holding court. 15-20 minutes later suddenly realize that not only is that same chick still standing beside me (usually beaming) but I’ve had my hand on her hip/ass the whole time. She might as well have been a piece of furniture.

    • YaReally nails it. No need to overthink everything, just understand the fundamental principles and let it flow from there.

  29. on the Madmen score you better look a little bit like Hamm if you do that or carry some hush money like DSK of Sofitel fame. I’ve had a woman threaten legal action and I’m a good looking man, I smiled my way out and in retrospect it was probably a shit test. Admittedly she was a femcunt lawyer (nice looking Latin type and we were both drunk and I bit her neck. However…be prepped for the law if you Draper.

    • Draper had sex with that woman earlier in the episode, which I think makes all the difference in whether that move would get you arrested vs. laid.
      I remember all the feminist rape blather that came out after that episode aired. But if they really wanted to create controversy, they would’ve had him do that to her without any previous sexual contact at all.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 1:14 pm Hair Slicked Back With Swag So Fresh
      Drape her over your shoulder and walk out like a boss.

  30. It’s about the frame. Is the hug in her frame or in yours. If in hers, it’s beta. If in yours, it’s alpha.

  31. Beta behavior like hugging, pda, sucking up, etc feels repulsive when we do it or see it happen. I think we all have the instinct that it is not natural behavior, but society does.
    The most beta guy I know desperately asks women for hugs “Give me a hug :)”, and they awkwardly give it to him. It’s repulsive to watch and I cringe inside. Good advice for myself is to do the opposite of everything that he does.

    • OH man, yeah – you can see the look on the poor girl’s face saying ‘OMG mentally preparing myself for 5 seconds of hell, let’s get this over with as quickly and evasively as possible’.
      When you’re on the flip side of sub-beta purgatory, and there’s a really shy girl for whom you’re out of her league (script flipped) – you can kindly do her a favor (for her birthday or whatever) and say ‘give me a hug’ to her, and she beams that you’ve given her that permission. Good going, you just made her week. What a guy!

  32. never really gave much thought to hugs. always figured it was just one of those things girls just have to do because FEELINGS or something. occasionally, for my own amusement, i won’t return a hug and just stand there with a blank stare, both arms at my side. the results are her looking at me like I just sent her family to the gulag. pretty amusing. anyway fuck hugs.

  33. on May 21, 2014 at 12:45 pm Robert What?
    Good stuff. Real food for thought. In fact let me give you a great big hug!

  34. As with almost anything there’s a beta way to do it and an alpha way to do it

  35. It is a possible opening to sex, but I don’t recall any examples of that sort of conversion of a hug into bonobo wild sex. Normally it is the eyes that gibe away interest.
    But I’m not sure if a woman deliberately not hugging you isn’t some sort of invite to cop a feel. In a sense a non hug is a way for her to signal a bit of sexual tension and neutralize the rest of the room full of fags.
    It’s not like you can tug the pigtails in certain professional and quasi professional settings though?
    The best trick in the book is to probably subtly acknowledge some delusion of sophistication in the check with a backhanded compliment. Then if she looks at you for a bit after that you can ask he about her rings or bracelets and see if you might like to go smoke.

  36. i don’t like to be touched so i don’t hug much. i’m really high T though, and i’ve wondered if it limbically has to do with exposure, immuno-supression, and viral load.
    i’m the same w shoes and taking crazy good care of my feet. I refuse to live w animals like dogs, those dirty fuckers. i’ve often wondered if im just closer to a primal human and don’t want hookworms or nasty shit.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 1:07 pm The Burninator
      Not familiar with your allusion, what does high t have to do with “exposure, immuno-supression, and viral load.”?
      Primal humans had dogs. We invented the species out of whole cloth from wolves (or so very close to wolf relatives that the difference is negligible). Those cave men and hunter-gatherers were surrounded by dogs as very necessary helpers that upped the odds of survival. Meaning I doubt it’s a regression to a primitive type, you might just be one of those borderline OCP (obsessive compulsive personality) types that doesn’t like the thought of getting dirty?

      • you have a lot of reading to do, as T and viral load is….like 80% of the physical attraction trigger.
        My view on dogs is that they are helpmates for beta males and thats great. Don’t need one personally, they can’t do shit for me. Do not want.

      • on May 21, 2014 at 1:19 pm The Burninator
        Thanks for the link, will investigate.
        Dogs (as things a man owns) makes one neither beta nor alpha, they’re value neutral, assuming you own an actual real dog and not one of those miniature kick-magnets that chicks like to own. As with anything, there’s an alpha way to do something and a beta way to do something. Besides hunting ducks would be a hell of a lot less fun if I had to swim out to the middle of the pond and fetch that damned bird myself. But I understand not wanting one, it’s one of those things people either want, or surely do not ever want.

  37. “David”, “jack”
    Even I see the pattern.
    Are these trolls paid?

  38. My bean had the right answer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uGnENk7GUI

  39. Mr bean had the right answer

  40. I often non-chalantly, but overtly grab their ass and give it a squeeze with a smirk. Seems to work; lots of flirty arm punch responses.

  42. If you must have a physical greeting with women you aren’t fucking, aka hugs…. Stand upright, don’t lean in,keep one hand in your pocket, Pat her gently a few times on her back with your other hand , brief smile at her then look away. That’s how you friendzone women.

  43. High-fiving is the one I’ve noticed lately. Whether it’s one of those wet, weaselly type PUAs high-fiving girls as a very weak way of gaining ‘rapport’ or kino, it’s a asexual move. Similarly I’ve noticed a trend lately whereby, upon telling a girl about something vaguely impressive I’ve done, they’ll high-five me. It doesn’t feel right even if I don’t want to bang the girls. It’s a bit gay even with a male friend, but men and women high-fiving seems like something that happens in a world where sex differences are gone.

  44. 3 questions:
    1) having fucking a girl and cumming on her chest, is a hug goodbye out the door ok?
    2) wtf? I hate silent girls in bed. Girls can be not loud (some noise) and still cum right?
    3) she was on top there was about a 10inch diameter Circle soaking wet spot on my bed after sex. Did she squirt?

  45. Most of the women I know that hug rarely do so as a greeting it’s generally as a goodbye. With that in mind if I’m at a house party and a girl wants a goodbye hug, she comes to me. 90% of the time they’ll get their butt off the couch and come to me. Depending on the woman, I’ll grab her ass with both hands when they hug me. They all know this is going to happen at this point, and I always get a smile. I recently went out for dinner with my family, and my brothers room mate came to give me a hug as we were leaving, I grabbed her ass, she backed away called me a jerk, and she came back for a second hug with the same result. My girlfriend smiled and shook her head.
    Something else the I used to do is when a girl hugged me, I’d try and scrape them off on the corner of a wall. It turned into a bit of a game for a couple girls, one of which started to latch on to me at random times at house parties. We dated for a couple years shortly after she turned 18 (I was 26 at the time).

    • on May 22, 2014 at 2:56 am Pijama Wearing Ninja
      Must freshen up my social circle so that it will include high-schoolers and university freshmen again. Been kind of lazy.

  46. Back in the 60s NASA engineers didn’t hug awkwardly after successful mission accomplishment.
    Women have ruined everything.

  47. Trying a little strip club game, one of the girls hung around and talked to me for something like five straight hours, during which I had a spectacular opportunity to DHV myself relative to the bouncer, and I got her massively wet, as measured by observing how massively wet she was.
    I can’t lie, it was the best “date” of my life, and I had an awesome time. But I didn’t have the balls to push hard enough to fuck her then and there, or get her out of the club to fuck that night, and I eventually went from being an object of desire to somebody who had been hanging around too long, and had totally lost frame.
    I’ve spent a lot of time trying to figure out when and how that train got derailed, and this post makes it obvious: It was all over when she hugged me.
    It was over before she hugged me, but that was the outward evidence of that nail being driven into that coffin. She initiated the hug, and it was designed to strip away the last of my armament and reassert her frame as the object of desire and the one in control; which it did, perfectly. At that point, I should have just chalked it up as a loss instead of spending the next week in some beta trance before showing back up a week later to have every girl in the place say, “You’re that truck driver, right? Do you have $500 this week?”
    Why did they all know who I was when I only talked to a couple of them? Why were they trying so hard to push stripper frame on me from the first second of interaction? Because I almost won the rigged game, and they all knew it. Girls talk. They would have noticed Sasha there blurting out her real name and telling me enough personal shit about herself that I could stalk her; all for the price of two drinks. They would have noticed when she left the club and threw herself on the nearest dick to relieve her massive horniness. The bartender, in particular, would have noticed her whore not making enough money for the house.
    I never went back after that last time. I had no frame at all. The bartender, in particular, made sure I never got anywhere with another girl after that. “Do you have $500?”
    All because of a chain of events capped off with a hug.
    It’s the only place I ever got anywhere. An average looking married guy in a college town full of average looking married guys trying to cheat on their wife with hot college chicks just doesn’t get me very far. But the guy who doesn’t pay for shit at the titty bar, and yet keeps a girl engaged for hours, that’s something you don’t see every day. That’s different. That’s intriguing.
    Meh. I can’t let that stupid little story about the wet stripper pussy be the high point of my life. I need to get back on this horse somehow.

  48. speaking of.
    are pda alpha, beta or it depends? I guess it depends but i’d like to know in this case.
    let me do some ‘splaining. i am a recovering beta. thanks to everything learned here and on the rest of the manosphere i landed a solid 8 (could be 8.5). being an old fashioned man and genuinely liking the girl, i let this develop into a relationship. three months now.
    this girl sometimes just can’t keep her pda under control. i never initiate but sometimes she cannot help but kiss me in public, pass her hand in my hair, hug me etc. i am generally against pda (old fashioned man, again).
    i am not quite sure how long i should let her being playful and such. on the one hand i think it is beta and inappropriate, on the other it kinda strokes my ego to show how a beautiful girl just can’t keep her hand to herself with me. feels alpha in that sense.
    any suggestion on the matter?
    thanks.

    • on May 21, 2014 at 6:19 pm gunslingergregi
      fucking enjoy that shit

    • You need to make her qualify to you more and better, and you need to fuck her harder (much much harder in fact). She feels like you are not “bonding” with her right now.
      Then she will relax, and keep pda to a minimum (proximity of body).

  49. on May 21, 2014 at 5:47 pm Libertardian
    Fame can’t buy alpha.

  50. on May 21, 2014 at 6:14 pm gunslingergregi
    this thread thread owns funny as fuck

  51. on May 21, 2014 at 6:18 pm gunslingergregi
    but really what about the hugs where the chick runs up and hugs you
    like this bitch so happy its like she won the lottery when she sees you and run over giving you hug tackle
    I used to get this a lot in Germany from my buddies girlfriends it didn’t feel weird at time but ahh wtf was wrong with those bitches hugging another dude that wasn’t there’s like that
    my girl don’t give out hugs to anyone but me and it is the jumping hug
    the hug where people watch and just have to say wow that’s love

  52. on May 21, 2014 at 7:05 pm Libertardian
    Re: “Many College Grads Now Unemployable”
    Meanwhile…
    ‘”Too many foreign students – many from Asian countries – come to the United States to further their education but must return home when they cannot obtain a green card or immigrant visa. As part of President Obama’s immigration reforms, he has called for ‘stapling green cards’ to the diplomas of foreign graduates students in science, technology, engineering and mathematics fields,” [Deputy Secretary of Labor] Lu wrote.’
    If your degree actually lets you pay off your student debt, the terrorists have won.

    • It’s always been like that, there’s been an “engineering shortage” ever since I graduated back in the stone ages, a constant effort to increase the supply of engineers even when there are many unemployed engineers. Being an engineer I am allowed to say that we are the stupidest profession, or at least the most pathetic, we have no control over our wages. There are even special tax laws to prevent engineering contractors from deducting expenses that other businesses can deduct on their tax returns.

      • on May 22, 2014 at 8:07 pm Libertardian
        “May 21, 2014, 4:25 PM — A former network engineer for oil and gas company EnerVest has been sentenced to four years in federal prison after pleading guilty in January to sabotaging the company’s systems badly enough to disrupt its business operations for a month.
        Ricky Joe Mitchell of Charleston, West Virginia, must also pay $428,000 in restitution and a $100,000 fine, according to an announcement this week from U.S. Attorney Booth Goodwin’s office.”
        Meanwhile, kleptocrats who destroy entire companies, economies, and nations are rewarded with golden parachutes, bailouts, and government sinecures. Just as alpha always beats beta, Patrick Bateman types always beat engineers.

    • I’m actually suprised there is no uprising against those shysters.
      Oh well, panem et circensem.

  53. on May 21, 2014 at 7:18 pm gunslingergregi
    so this other dude that my chick hung out with a day with when she left me putting money on her books in jail
    his girl he usually calls every day and shit at my house talkin she my buddy from way back same chick that begged crying for me to fuck her and I didn’t want to but yea
    she asks why do everyone fall in love with your chick that dude putting money on books don’t even call me anymore he used to at least call every day ask me how i was doing and if i needed anything she must be giving him a nice vision of future or something
    guess he listened when I told him she needed him more than ever
    and to put loot on her books
    so I get to save loot cool
    but yea this chick one of ones calling me all the dam time
    i ignored
    8 calls today and
    what are yu doin want to hang out
    and im cum n up ok?
    i’d rather not call a chick every day for sure

    • on May 21, 2014 at 7:23 pm gunslingergregi
      hung out for 4 hours or so she told me loved me and such and always will bla bla i told her i loved her and shit
      then at end i do my usual love used to be sacred now i don’t care shpeal just do it for fun now
      i gave her some disinformation to pass on
      kind of fun

      • on May 21, 2014 at 7:25 pm gunslingergregi
        she has her uses also one who got me the hot blond that wrecked my truck
        and can get me more bitches
        so yea

      • on May 21, 2014 at 7:54 pm gunslingergregi
        plus double hand on head pile drived her face with my dick he he he

    • on May 21, 2014 at 8:04 pm gunslingergregi
      my bitch kicking bitches out of dudes lives and she not even there
      that’s hard core

  54. There is but one way to deal with this:
    She leans in for the hug.
    You put out your hand out to block her, checking crowd for approval.
    After a moment, you then take your hand down as you beckon her into a hug with it, arms wide open, big smile…
    But before she gets there…
    kick to the stomach, double middle finger, and…
    STUNNER, STUNNER, BY GAWD, JR SAYS ITS A STUNNER!!!!!!!
    Walk away with her unconscious, your arms held high, your theme music (replete with breaking glass) playing the background.
    Bonus if you steal her car keys or belt on the way out.
    Stone Cold Rape!

  55. Rum is kinda tall and so a woman coming on to “hug” him might get a subtle one handed back of the hair grab and a face to chest shove.
    But that other hand is safely hooked in my belt.
    If you have fucked, it is OK to scratch them behind their ears.

  56. I’ve found that a perfunctory two light slaps on the back while carrying on a conversation with someone else in the group followed up by a complete failure to acknowledge the ‘hugger girl’ seems to work pretty well more often than not.

  57. on May 21, 2014 at 9:41 pm Third Beta from the Sun
    Drink deeply of the nourishing despair. (golf clap) bravo.

  58. Cultural context is interesting.
    just returned from 3 weeks holiday in japan. being a regular gym trainer for years now, i am solid and in good shape. in japan, their is a cultural fascination with westerners who are muscular (or different from the japanese small and slender build) and it is common for westerners to get their personal space repeatedly invaded and your arms touched, without invitation, by women AND men (the second one is actually creepy, not Amanda Marcotte TM creepy). blonde women and/or those with big boobs are also targets.
    usually 5-10 times a day i was getting this, even at the 7-11, a checkout girl wanted to take a picture. they think nothing of invading your personal space On one day after this happened about a dozen times I blew up at some random salary man at a city bar, who pretty much pissed his pants. in japan everyone is so controlled and disciplined and confrontation averse, that any potential confrontation is not even considered a possible consequence.
    I, like most in western societies, immediately assumed it a dominance move when coming from the men. having spoken to other foreigners, the reasons as follows: sometimes it is fascination with the difference, sometimes it is exotic attraction leading to malfunctioning brains and sometimes it is japanese inferiority complex.
    i also noticed skinny, sapling-like western dudes were not experiencing the same treatment, so i relaxed somewhat after that. i also noticed that those who had spent time in western countries were much more chill and not like over eager puppy dogs.
    interestingly, at the local bar i frequented, the local women would follow me around repeatedly trying to cop sneaky feels from behind, before running off like school girls giggling. after learning from my first blow up, i would nonchalantly continue whatever conversation i was having and give the girl a small pat on the shoulder or head then look back at the person i was talking to.

    • on May 22, 2014 at 6:38 pm Alec Leamas
      Funny you should mention it. I knew a black girl who spent some time in Japan once. She said that Japanese people would approach her and feel her hair without asking or getting permission. They were overcome by curiosity.

  59. Tactical question here. I gamed a girl at a party, followed up with her in text game and suggested an activity. She was up for drinks on the day I mentioned but couldn’t make the time I proposed so proposed Happy Hour drinks. I mentioned I couldn’t make it that early only later and proposed that or another day.
    She never replied, nor replied to my ping texts.
    1) I’m now free to meet earlier because my meetings were canceled. Do I re-initiate?
    2) since she hasn’t respond to simple ping texts: “Am at the airport, I think the guy across from me is a spy”….is this a cold lead?
    Thoughts?
    [CH: sounds dead. she didn’t want to meet for after hour drinks? why? does she have a steady? is she afraid you’ll make a move on her that she doesn’t want? or does want? regardless, you’re only choice now is stop following up and give her room to come to you.]

    • Thanks for the reply CH. The issue here for consideration is what if a girl responds to “invites” but NOT “ping” texts? This girl is in her late 20’s and a hip hop dancer and banker so not sure if she’s a flake or a busy girl. She seemed nice when I met her and responded to game.
      To clarify…the narrative is I met her, gamed her and had proposed a meet up time and date…but she couldn’t make the time I’d proposed and offered an earlier one. I couldn’t do that one so proposed either later or another day. She didn’t reply to ping texts which I found odd considering.
      ‘
      What I did was on the day of my initial invite, I sent a text: “just realized can’t meet tonight. weekend. how’s sunday?”
      She replied within 30 minutes saying she was going on a biz trip that day but would arrange something when she got back.
      Me: 2 hours later. “K”
      And left it there. I couldn’t tell whether she’s just not a “texter” or a cold lead.
      She replied to any invitations but didn’t reply to “ping” texts, that’s why I was confused as to how to proceed. I punted. Got this. Not sure whether this is polite brush off or a girl who prefers to have a clear timetable.
      But in my experience, most girls in their late 20’s know their schedules weeks in advance.
      If a lead is cold, I don’t follow up, but this vague response seemed to indicate a desire to meet without her chasing me. I’m not sure if this is a “thing” with girls: interested but not invested. I’d like to hear more on this idea.

      • @walawala
        Probably just a busy girl. Might have a boyfriend too. Dancing can take up a lot of time and wear you out, esp if she’s prepping for a show or event or something (often those girls work as gogo dancers or dance teachers etc. too).
        A girl with nothing going on will sit around and txt all day, and if she wasn’t responding to invites i’d say she’s cold but if she’s responding to invites but not fluff txts, quit sending fluff txts.
        Ideally you want to invite her out on whatever day/time she first suggested (like if that was a monday at happy hour, try to free up your schedule to arrange a meet-up because you know mondays at happy hour she’s probably available).
        Basically if you both have busy schedules but you haven’t gotten her invested enough for her to rearrange her schedule for you, then to get the lay you’ll have to rearrange your schedule.
        A big part of my getting laid is that I’m available 24/7 because I work my own hours, so some nights I’m up all night some nights I’m up at 6am. So if I get a txt from a girl at 2pm I can take a few hours and meet up. If I get a txt from some bartender chick who just got off shift at 3am, I can tell her to come over etc.
        Once you have a shit-ton of value to her, she’ll rearrange her schedule, but if she isn’t playing along with your ping txts then you won’t get a chance to build that value over txt. So your only real option is to adjust your schedule to hers just to get her face to face with you and then build your value in person.
        If you can’t rearrange your schedule then you may have to accept that you guys just won’t be able to make it work and throw out an invite every couple weeks and cross your fingers.

  60. @ch @christian @yareally @amy
    This girl that I’ve been bitching about:
    Me taking her to good seats at a hockey game is not a death-sentence or a “okay I’m gonna go fuck another guy real quick this next party” right?
    I read into plate theory and I get it now. It’s sunk in.
    But what my action did is it put her in an emotional state to be more attracted to her other orbiters (b/c they aren’t taking her to these sweet seats. I am. And that game theory.). So she is probably spinning a few other plates a little faster. BUT my point is this, the mistake on my part subconsciously pushed her to doing those things but not necessarily convert through right? (Guess would be that involves more emotional whirlwind from the girl)
    For future reference I thought doing stuff like this for girls had pros and cons. Like if a girl is feeling her brain is going to explode from so many fuck buddy same shit events with you and from such a prolonged time, how do you prevent that? Shouldn’t it have had somewhatttttt of a positive effect

    • on May 21, 2014 at 11:31 pm gunslingergregi
      i stayed in presidential suite with my wife but the thing is i did it cause my dad had done shit like that and i wanted to see what it was like
      now also i did call ahead and say what to do in room and shit like put 20 something bouquets of flowers and stuff like that
      did it for her too
      had the limo pick us up from airport and the driver met me right outside the plane exit and whisked me past the passport line without stopping
      so yea i mean i like shit like that too
      so if you like shit like that then its all good
      just some chicks can’t handle it some can
      my wife can
      stayed in every hotel there is ate at every resteraunt did everything there was to do but when i couldn’t do that didn’t have money she was still cool with it
      i guess a test is when she says we should stay at house to save money i still decide on hotel
      but then she rips walls out of house to make beroom like hotel he he he
      but yea
      my current American bitch when i do something that seems like its for her she can’t take it lol
      but i mean she is all fucked up and gets scared she really gonna fall in love with me to the max then im gonna leave her ass pining for me and never be able to replicate me again

      • on May 21, 2014 at 11:34 pm gunslingergregi
        funniest part of all is that i have spent way way way less money on these American bitches in two years than i spent on my wife in three trips
        hahhahahahahahaahha
        its really some pretty funny shit

      • on May 21, 2014 at 11:37 pm gunslingergregi
        that’s actually pretty fucking amazing

      • on May 21, 2014 at 11:44 pm gunslingergregi
        the speech crumbs from longshanks table springs to mind

      • “she is all fucked up and gets scared she really gonna fall in love with me to the max then im gonna leave her ass pining for me and never be able to replicate me again”
        i had this happen last nite. terrified she cant replicate me, offers to let me bang the hot bartender.

      • on May 22, 2014 at 9:30 am gunslingergregi
        yea she in it now he he he
        I think at this point it is anything I want and by that I mean anything

      • on May 22, 2014 at 9:32 am gunslingergregi
        and congrats he he he

    • If you have enough value to her you can take her to hockey games. I don’t think you’ve built up enough value. You’re too invested in her, and she can tell. Your attitude should be “I have a lot of hot chicks I could take to this game. You’re the lucky winner.” If you don’t have that kind of dynamic with her, then you shouldn’t be taking her.
      Will, everyone is telling you the same thing. Ignore her for a while. Make her initiate with you. Be unavailable, or less available. Create the impression of being busy with other girls. Better yet, BE busy with other girls. Then you don’t have to pretend.

    • Doing stuff for girls you’re banging is ok. Doing nice things is ok.
      Doing things for girls with an expectation…is supplicating and beta.

  61. Hey guys, I tried some gamey CH things this week and it was great. A girl I knew way back in the day took up my offer to stay in my guest room this past weekend. I am sure she had no intention of sleeping with me, but she did, with gusto, on multiple occasions. Jerkboy / badboy / straightforward game got the lay. She extended her stay and canceled staying with her other friends in the city to continue tripping my pipe. This was more of an experiment to try taking some of CH’s advice more literally, and most of it worked. For instance, I applied the schoolboy game column in the following hilarious way. I just finished eating her out to orgasm and was climbing on top of her to sink in and she chose that moment to shit test me – “Where did you learn how to do that?”. Seriously woman? “Your mom taught me”. Then I slammed it in. Boom Schoolboy game all grown up. Was awesome.

    • Oh, and relevant to this post: the girl breezily hugged me when we met in the airport, but I noticed that had changed to an awkward, sexually charged fist bump by the the time she was leaving. No question about it. I am going to kill the inner hugger in me.

  62. on May 22, 2014 at 12:56 am gunslingergregi
    any thoughts on penance my chick should do to be able to spend her days waiting on me hand and foot again

  63. […] The subject of hugs as a social lubricant surfaced recently in the comments.  […]

  64. on May 22, 2014 at 2:51 am Pijama Wearing Ninja
    I usually kiss girls on the cheek when I greet them, but if they come in for the hug, I squeeze them close.
    “Naturally, if I have to put up with hugging I’m gonna press in real close if the hugger is a cute girl with a big rack.”
    Some people apparently need hugging lessons. You should always hug closely. I never understood people who accept those distant hugs. You either have the rapport with someone to hug properly or don’t be a phony. I haven’t really notice either of these behaviors harming your chances with anything. Just don’t accept lame hugs. If you get one of those distant hugs, tease the girl about not knowing how to hug properly. You’re not her fat grandmother.

  65. The CH stable of rigid, high-school posturing homophobes. give your friends a hug, they won’t be here forever. only these 27 year old, grandiose frat twits think that.

    • “The CH stable of rigid, high-school posturing homophobes.”
      This is why people come down hard on kikes.
      Please, ruin some other blog, will you? :^)

  66. on May 22, 2014 at 3:07 am gunslingergregi
    watching American pie 2 lesbian scene where they make the dudes jump through hoops to watch them touch each others ass
    I can have that happen in real 24 hours a day anytime

  67. In Spain there is social etiquette for hugs, kisses and handshakes that leaves everything clear. For example, two women meeting will peck each other on both cheeks, maybe hug if they’re close. Two men meeting will shake hands, pat each other on the back or even hug if they’re close and haven’t met in a while. A man and a woman meeting for business will shake hands if not very familiar or “fake peck” one cheek. A man and a woman meeting as friends will “fake peck” or peck both cheeks, if they haven’t met in a while or are flirting, they may hug. It goes on and on. You can glance at two people meeting and KNOW their relationship with each other and their opinion of each other. In the UK it just seems to be “shake hands with unknown people, hug anyone, kiss nobody, no physical contact outside of a hug”, which is just baffling to me.

  68. OT: So apparently, THIS was deemed good enough for a Nebula award by the SFWA. http://www.apex-magazine.com/if-you-were-a-dinosaur-my-love/
    “A T-Rex, even a small one, would never have to stand against five blustering men soaked in gin and malice. A T-Rex would bare its fangs and they would cower. They’d hide beneath the tables instead of knocking them over. They’d grasp each other for comfort instead of seizing the pool cues with which they beat you, calling you a fag, a towel-head, a shemale, a sissy, a spic, every epithet they could think of, regardless of whether it had anything to do with you or not, shouting and shouting as you slid to the floor in the slick of your own blood.
    If you were a dinosaur, my love, I’d teach you the scents of those men. I’d lead you to them quietly, oh so quietly. Still, they would see you. They’d run. Your nostrils would flare as you inhaled the night and then, with the suddenness of a predator, you’d strike. I’d watch as you decanted their lives—the flood of red; the spill of glistening, coiled things—and I’d laugh, laugh, laugh.”
    Ye cats.
    Btw, they consider that a great victory, since no white male won an award. Seriously.

  69. on May 22, 2014 at 3:25 am gunslingergregi
    oh shit lol
    got letters from girl finally
    wrote the letters on not reg paper but what she took from hospital and back of request to see doctor forms
    on the part where it says inmates reason to see the doc/nurse (explain problem)
    it says
    I need some my greggie greg
    I need my hair played with
    I need you to dick me down
    on bottom lol
    ahahahahahahaha
    she funny

  70. on May 22, 2014 at 3:34 am gunslingergregi
    dam shit she went through a tear wantin to come out
    really is like 30 pages

  71. on May 22, 2014 at 3:53 am gunslingergregi
    dam they gave her ten days in hole wouldn’t let see attourney
    oh shit wtf offered big black chick 1 bag coolaid to beat the bitch that was fucking with her the chick said how bout two then did it
    not tryin to stereotype but ahh
    lolzolzozlzolzozl
    wtf if someone fights someone
    even if they don’t defend themselves they both get ten days in hole
    so chick that went and fought other chick and the chick fucking with my girl calling her a bitch got ten days
    so the chick fucking with my girl was gonna get out in two now gonna do 8 extra
    dam

  72. A neologism y’all may appreciate: Prumbots (Professional Umbrage & Offence Takers)
    I coined the term today in this blog post about recent controversy in Aussie state politics.

  73. on May 22, 2014 at 3:57 am gunslingergregi
    I know my chick tried to pay some big black dude to fight me on thanksgiving when she was so fucking mad lol
    cause I got out car and he got out car like who dat I said greg then carried my shit in
    I guess she didn’t pay enough money that time he he he

    • on May 22, 2014 at 4:33 am gunslingergregi
      two years ago when I let her get all dressed up then dropped her downtown as punishment he he he

  74. on May 22, 2014 at 4:03 am gunslingergregi
    so greggie greg I miss you so much I find myself day dreaming about the day I get out of here. I want you to break your pussy. You better be ready to dick me down.all day baby. God im gonna have to touch myself again. I start thinking about my waldo and im soaked with sweat.
    he he he

    • on May 22, 2014 at 5:03 am gunslingergregi
      notice the your pussy not my pussy
      yea baby internalized ownership

      • on May 22, 2014 at 5:47 am gunslingergregi
        here is external ownership:
        you don’t know how bad you made my day hearing your voice on the phone and the smile you put on my face the girl next to me was sitting at her door looking out her food hole when I was talking to you she said when I got off the phone she was like that you dude (yea why) she I can tell he makes you happy don’t he (yea why) she said why the fuck you on the streets then cause im a fuckup she said well girl you need to your shit together you got a good man and he loves you
        I said crying how you know know what she said I can tell just by the way ya all was talkin and that I had such a big smile on my face that she thought she had died and went to heaven so when I started cryin about all the fucked up shit ive done to you she tell me im lucky to be alive
        I told her yea that’s so true he owns my life bought and paid for In full so she tell me to tell you that if she ever see me on the streets shes gonna beat my ass for you.
        so maybe I need to get with the black chick too
        so a chick on a dudes side I guess

      • on May 22, 2014 at 5:53 am gunslingergregi
        this the third life I have owned in this world by a woman saying it with her own free will
        talk about rational overconfidense

  75. on May 22, 2014 at 4:09 am gunslingergregi
    on being fat:
    even in jail bitches be trying to plump up other bitches:
    she said last night chick was like hey you need to start eating. I was like I have a little I was like I try and get my breakfast down every morning cause its always cereal so she tells me I can have hers every morning well I was like what you gonna eat she said she don’t need it I was like I don’t know I don’t think my greggie greg gonna like this one I don’t think he wants a big babykins im pretty sure he likes his little tiny babykins.
    he he he

  76. on May 22, 2014 at 4:15 am gunslingergregi
    so 2 bags coolaid 280 total
    I guess she rich in there then

  77. on May 22, 2014 at 4:19 am gunslingergregi
    so 2.80 cents to get someones ass beat in jail and person willing to spend ten days in hole
    that’s a little scary
    but I mean those rape stories ya hear about become less so I guess
    cause I imagine for 10 bucks a piece or maybe 20 you could have anyone who fucks with you killed

    • on May 22, 2014 at 4:23 am gunslingergregi
      again it is shown money is everything
      get that fucking money

      • on May 22, 2014 at 4:48 am gunslingergregi
        and I am shown as my mission being correct cause I told her we needed to take break cause I wasn’t saving money and now she gets that lesson in real life of just how important that fucking is

      • on May 22, 2014 at 5:20 am gunslingergregi
        the part I don’t get is the guards let the chick in hole next to my chick out to go beat the other bitch that was talkin smack to my chick in the hole so wtf

      • on May 22, 2014 at 5:23 am gunslingergregi
        then girl who got ass beat in hole now with my chick at that point and is leaving her stuff to use after she leave in 4 days
        so I guess being stuck with the girl who beat you and the chick you mouthed off too as only people to talk to and only getting hour a day outside cell with only you in it make ya change your attitude I guess
        my chick the chickfather or some shit

      • on May 22, 2014 at 5:27 am gunslingergregi
        apparently first 5 days my chick was actually alone no one to talk to

    • on May 22, 2014 at 6:49 am gunslingergregi
      guess that could be coolaids new add

  78. on May 22, 2014 at 4:53 am gunslingergregi
    more learning about shit I never really knew about before kind of cool in lot of ways
    kind of sad too
    gonna be fun for while when she gets out I think he he he
    said rapes not the word for what she gonna do to me when she get out
    kind of lookin forward to that

  79. on May 22, 2014 at 6:03 am gunslingergregi
    fucking wild that she is allowing all this shit to happen to her
    cause I mean she got caught in my truck with shit on her got arrested was knocking on my door in two hours
    so she planned to go to jail to get clean
    to be with me
    I told her before I wanted to see her sacrifice for us
    and she has shown now she is willing to do so

    • on May 22, 2014 at 6:24 am gunslingergregi
      course she also stayed with me basically whole time I had no car too lol
      and when I had no water
      she actually like staying with me under fucked up conditions
      I got to figure out how to keep some fucked up shit while also not being fucked up

      • on May 22, 2014 at 6:29 am gunslingergregi
        our grill is a 14 dollar beat up grill with no fucking cover, no legs anymore, and she used the grate out the stove to cook on, that we had whole time I known her and she still rocked that shit out in the yard this year when it got a little warmer
        I went out tossed blanket on sidewalk we cuddled up cause still little cold and she fed me from the grill

      • Holy fuck no moderation for this dude? That’s like 87 posts in a row.

  80. on May 22, 2014 at 6:08 am gunslingergregi
    my friend told me couldn’t be done the shit is happenin
    a chick giving up heroin to be with me
    went through the withdrawals coldturkey

    • Bixnood fodder gobbet Ida wag chillens jab bah. Ook?

    • on May 22, 2014 at 8:16 am gunslingergregi
      my friend ” my buddy my pal ”’ told me couldn’t be done ”””told me that something could not be done wonder what that thing is? hmm”””’ the shit is happening ””’referring to the thing my buddy my friend my pal said could not be done what could not be done I wonder well maybe if I read further perhaps?””””” a chick ””’ or a woman””””’ giving up””””’when you give up something what do you do? ”””” heroin ”””””gave up heroin a drug that is extremely hard to get off of also illegal why she in jail for having it””””’ to be with me ””””’ well gave it up to be with me why would that be the case? hmm maybe cause I don’t want her on heroine. I want the thing she is addicted to most in this world to be me and I hear that heroine is dam near impossible to give up my friend has told me numerous stories of when he was dealing with that shit of how it could not be done””””’
      went through withdrawals cold turket””””””’
      wishdrawals is what happens when you don’t have heroine your body needs it after you take it to live
      you can die from not having it when you try to get off
      this might be something to look up
      ”
      cold turkey is not doing the heroine without the aid of any drugs to lesson the withdrawals since they did not give her the shit to help with that
      so she was alone in a cell going through that shit by herself with no human support and nobody to talk to
      and nobody to help her
      now sure she was locked In that cell but yea still cold turkey
      maybe look it up online to understand it better

      • on May 22, 2014 at 8:23 am gunslingergregi
        so when this woman I love gives up that shit she is addicted to because being with me is more important to her than getting high as fuck all day or better than being able to chemically induce being high as fuck all day
        then I will feel like I have really accomplished something when it comes to being able to understand woman and being able to accomplish the goals I set out for myself to accomplish my goal has been her getting off drugs and having the chance to raise her kids and giving her the tools to do that so she has that one chance and can grab it if she would like
        just like I got a chance in this life to grab something for myself and I did

      • on May 22, 2014 at 8:26 am gunslingergregi
        I was told by people who know it is an impossible mission so of course I had to try it only live once he he he

  81. Hugging is alpha if you approach the girl around the waist and bring her towards you.
    As one of my favorite commenters PA’s once wrote…if it’s the “Donald Duck hug” facing each other butts sticking out and leaning in….that is SUPER beta.

  82. Sometimes small positional changes can make life much easier. When you know a possible hug is about to come, lean back against the bar or a nearby rail or table thrusting your lostsas cockas out as far as you can. Take a folding chair with you in cases where you know this won’t be possible. When an over-eager beaver wants to hug you, remain in the position and you’ll force her to straddle your junk. Throw a lazy arm over her shoulder and ask her if she got even shorter.
    Or stop them from initiating the hug by pushing out your hand to her neck/chest area. Tell her that you don’t do hugs but that she can kiss your cheek. Close grip around neck and pull closer to cheek.
    Or just go with whorefinder.

  83. It look like the Towson Nigbate team have invaded the comments section here.
    A steady iron hard jet of Bixnood has been released on the threads.

    • on May 22, 2014 at 7:15 am gunslingergregi
      well they won so a good thing or bad

      • Job jab div dop? Ah ah uh. Skree skraw.

      • on May 22, 2014 at 7:29 am gunslingergregi
        I think I am actually using mostly words there bro

      • on May 22, 2014 at 7:31 am gunslingergregi
        do you consider yourself intelligent?

      • on May 22, 2014 at 7:54 am gunslingergregi
        see when I didn’t understand what you said about the towson nigbate team
        I looked it up and found that they are a black debate team that recently won
        ””””””Two Towson University students edged out 170 other teams to win a national debate championship held in Indiana this week””””””””
        I then saw the picture and put two and two together
        towson the debate \
        and you said nigbate team
        and the debate team was black
        so I then thought ok nig sometimes refers to blacks so the towson nigbate team was the correct thing you were referring to
        so even though it was made up words by you in a creative way I was magically able to deduce what the fuck you were referring to
        then on too bixnood
        I also looked up that when I didn’t understand what the fuck it was
        and found a cartoon with a snappy little thing about niggers
        talking about why do they need cell phones when all they can talk is unintelligible gibberish
        but really that doesn’t apply to me since my writing is not unintelligible gibberish since it has English words for the most part
        so I posted after you to see if you were referring to me
        and you were
        so please if you can’t understand something at least have almost the same level of intelligence as me and look it the fuck up
        cause if ya can’t understand some small English words get that log out of your eye

    • on May 22, 2014 at 7:55 am gunslingergregi
      see when I didn’t understand what you said about the towson nigbate team
      I looked it up and found that they are a black debate team that recently won
      ””””””Two Towson University students edged out 170 other teams to win a national debate championship held in Indiana this week””””””””
      I then saw the picture and put two and two together
      towson the debate \
      and you said nigbate team
      and the debate team was black
      so I then thought ok nig sometimes refers to blacks so the towson nigbate team was the correct thing you were referring to
      so even though it was made up words by you in a creative way I was magically able to deduce what the fuck you were referring to
      then on too bixnood
      I also looked up that when I didn’t understand what the fuck it was
      and found a cartoon with a snappy little thing about nigs
      talking about why do they need cell phones when all they can talk is unintelligible gibberish
      but really that doesn’t apply to me since my writing is not unintelligible gibberish since it has English words for the most part
      so I posted after you to see if you were referring to me
      and you were
      so please if you can’t understand something at least have almost the same level of intelligence as me and look it the fuck up
      cause if ya can’t understand some small English words get that log out of your eye

  84. on May 22, 2014 at 7:53 am Trimegistus
    If a woman hugs you, get ONE arm around her waist and pull her in. That sexualizes it — and see how long you can keep her there.
    If a man hugs you . . . I don’t know. Turn it into a pro wrestling match?

  85. on May 22, 2014 at 8:54 am gunslingergregi
    kind of wild how its almost like i’m beginning to see through the matrix on everything
    I think I am heading towards peace in my soul

  87. GSGregi
    Cocaine?!? Whatever it is, put it down and go for a mouthful of fresh air.

    • on May 23, 2014 at 9:11 am gunslingergregi
      I don’t do drugs
      maybe I should would have a lot more in common with American woman
      or American people for that matter

  88. OT for the “Goodbye America” crowd: the nation encapsulated in the background of one photo. Michelle is Obama giving a speech full of the usual retread anti-racist pablum at a high school.
    On the right is a woman who looks to be in a state of delirious ecstasy to be where she is.
    On the left is an unhappy man clapping because he’s read his Solzhenitsyn and knows what happens when people don’t clap when the regime wants them to.

  89. Hey guys,
    Long time lurker here, recently decided to dedicate some time and effort to pickup and figured some of the generous regulars like YaReally might take some interest.
    Bit of background: I’m not a hard-case newbie, but have issues with being stifled due to a difficult childhood of being picked-on/beaten-up/shut-down because of my race (I’m white). The silver-lining there is that my un-stifled personality is quite attractive to women, and I’ve had a handful of genuinely epic hook-ups in special unstifled moments of situational confidence. My fully developed pick-up style would probably be a mix between RSD Julien’s and Hank Moody’s (I’m a literary type and can drop dry wit when necessary)
    OK so preliminary field reports. I’ve been in Europe for a week and have gone out 4 times so far. My new policy is NO DRINKING while at clubs to maximize gain from reference experiences. Also I’m all about fucking with my comfort zone. I know deep down that I NEED to do this. My second night in a brand new foreign city I went out by myself to the most intimidating low-class club I could find(no drinking) handled a number of big jacked tattooed AMOGS got a makeout with a HB 6.5 18 year old. The whole evening I was way out of my comfort zone and actually ended up taking two cute swedish girls back to my place. They were both into me individually but I couldn’t get a threesome. So we just cuddled, made out, fondled.
    I saw one of the Swedish girls (the uglier of the two) on a Day 2 and we went back to my place and made out, dry humped, touched, but no nakedness and no sex. Tons of last minute resistance. I have set the frame that I’m not a boyfriend and routinely call her a dog and a slut in a way that is at least calibrated enough that i get laughter rather than a wtf response. Thanks rsd julien for this… so fun to just call a girl a fucking dog to her face and have the two of you just know its on and get a laugh out of it when you let a little amused smirk out.
    Bottom Line: That first evening of going out alone to the club with short skirted skanks and jacked mma types was WAY out of my comfort zone but I nailed it and am still coasting on those good feelings. I don’t want to give myself permission to stop pushing boundaries, and I feel that I’m especially at risk to just bask in the ability to go to a club, approach, get some makeouts and Day 3 fuck a 6. I still get serious nerves around 8.5-10 and cannot be unstifled around them.
    Also, my game works WAY better on European girls than American ones, for some reason. I am worried that my impression of improving in game might be somewhat inflated on account of this.
    Rambled too long.

    • Update:
      Had HB Swedish girl over last night. Just more cuddling, kissing, and massive last minute (by now days not minute) resistance. I did get naked though, so i suppose that’s progress, even though her boundary was not taking off her pants.
      I set a sexual frame with this chick from the beginning, and have gone out of my way to make clear that I am not a boyfriend or potential boyfriend. I try to be as persistent as possible pushing toward the lay without seeming needy, and at least in my view I’m doing this fairly well… but why no lay???
      I suspect she thinks i’m a player type and my game isn’t good enough that she’d feel OK just fucking me and risk being Nexted right after. The player thing might be reinforced by the fact that the night that we met I took her and her friend home with me. She asks me questions in text like… oh whats so special about me, you can have sex with some other girl, blah blah…you’ve only been in town x days and you already have a girl in bed… blah blah
      Very strange experience if this is the case as I don’t think of myself as a player and if anything am much more used to being rejected for not being playerish/gaming enough. I almost feel like a career white collar criminal all of a sudden charged with a bank robbery he didn’t commit.
      Another Question:
      What are people’s thoughts on bothering to practice game on girls who aren’t 8.5-10s? I suppose the reference experiences are still valuable with uglier girls, but perhaps this is just rationalizing because I just love female company.

      • on May 22, 2014 at 11:48 am Simon Corso
        Without getting long winded, seems like you might over playing the ” Not bf material hand ” try building a little more comfort to break thru the LMR.

      • “She asks me questions in text like… oh whats so special about me, you can have sex with some other girl, blah blah”
        You answered your own question. She needed qualifying / comfort and you kept giving her the vibe that she’s just a wet hole to you.

      • Thanks Simon and Kant (cool name).
        You’re both right. I’m not congruent enough to blend comfort/qualifying (but not too much to risk being slated as a boyfriend) with the sort of vibe i’ve been experimenting with to generate attraction. Guess this is just one of those things I’ll have to learn from repeated attempts/failures.

      • “You’re both right. I’m not congruent enough to blend comfort/qualifying (but not too much to risk being slated as a boyfriend) with the sort of vibe i’ve been experimenting with to generate attraction. Guess this is just one of those things I’ll have to learn from repeated attempts/failures.”
        Qualifying is simple and it’ll improve your odds a ton. It doesn’t even have to make sense. You could have said “no I only go for girls who ride bikes with me :) ” and that would have been enough. She just wants to feel like a special snowflake for her ASD, “see ASD he likes girls who ride bikes with him ! so it’s ok to fuck him”
        Comfort doesn’t have to be anything complicated, it can literally just be holding her hand for a bit or bringing her in to cuddle and talking about what movies you like. You don’t lose any alpha frame, if anything you gain it because it shows social intelligence

      • You got naked and she still had her pants on, not even down to underwear?
        You were putting on a strip show or begging her. You’ve hit a wall and are not handling it well. At this point you may need a new girl.
        Next her. If you’d done that when she refused to get naked first or second time, you might have eventually overcome that LMR. You get no credit for taking your own clothes off!

      • @familyman
        You may be right about this particular girl. Even so, since just about everything is totally new to me (for instance, just taking off my pants in bed with a girl when she’s being super resistant to sex) I’m glad that I did it.
        She is away for a few days which gives me some time to take stock. On thursday evening I went out to a club and pulled a (different) girl for the first time in my life (first time ever pulling same night back to my place for a lay). However, I don’t like this new girl (she’s German) quite as much as the Swedish one who has been giving me LMR.
        I think my plan will be to have one more evening with HB Sweden and just focus on comfort building. If I can’t do that successfully, and can’t pivot the newly developed comfort into a lay, then I’ll “next” her. I’m not ready for that now because it still feels like unfinished business.
        ——–
        Some other notes:
        As a former smoker, I used to rely on the common smokers’ bond as a way to meet women. Now I don’t have that luxury. However, my go to line whenever I see a cute girl smoking at a club is to walk up and say “smoking is bad for you.” This will usually do the trick in terms of starting up a convo and is a decent opener in case there are other former smokers out there who still want to hit on smokers for whatever reason.
        I’ve been listening to a lot of RSD JUlien stuff. One thing that worked for me in getting the same night lay/pull was using his “after-party” line. Not “go back to my place,” but “after-party.” Something to consider.

      • It’s been a few days I know …
        Congrats on the German girl. That overcomes my main concern, that you get other girls. As long as you have others, it doesn’t hurt to keep trying things with the first one, and you’ve got social proof that she may find out about.

  90. How could you forget Silvio?
    You want to hug, I give you a hug!
    https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/10/09/alpha-male-of-the-month-silvio/

  91. Slapped some sense into the gunslinger, thank you Jesus.

  92. If Gunslinger could apply his ability to increase the verbiage on his own replies to himself from a parent comment made by himself to a field like finance he’d probably be the chairman of the Fed by now.

  93. Who cares what western women say is alpha. Most western women and men are well kept sheep who are indoctrinated from birth to depend on an economic system that kills others (including Christians) abroad and is slowly enslaving them at home. Other countries will survive in future. UK/US won’t. Prepare accordingly.
    Western women and men are for the most part undomesticated idiots who won’t even have the children required necessary for their societies to continue. It is a problem of ideology rather than of race, though Whites (non-edomite) suffer most. Western women are the end of their own societies and listening to said white girl about hugging is about as useful as listening to he village idiot. Guess what. She won’t be having any kids that make it. Her advice about alpha males is only useful about pumping and dumping another worthless corporate whore for the 10-20 years the west has left. She cannot judge alpha as much as the kept slave who is allegedly alpha male csn continue his own society.
    Sorry to tell it like it is.

  95. From the CH commandments: “Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur.”
    These words are so profound and explain so much. I just had an epiphany of sorts.
    A woman’s own soul is a saboteur of her own happiness. Even MSM kinda sorta agrees with the idea that women are more emotion-based and simply have certain times of every month when hormones are out of whack and she makes bad decisions and has crazy thoughts. GBFM would point out how the Bible and other great books talk about the very nature of women being “evil.” They lack a moral compass, they arguably lack the ability to truly love in the way a man loves, they are herd animals, they can only worry about their own protection (not the greater good of society or the future).
    Society has failed women, failed their societywide shit test (we all know shit tests are done subconsciously), and has therefore failed men, children, families, and society. In short, women need a man to guide them and stop them from their worst instincts, exactly as CH states.
    But the Gen X women have been taught for 30 years to be “strong, independent,” men are bad, women are good, etc. I came to this conclusion thinking about my ex girlfriend (again). This is not me being “sour grapes” because I don’t get to make love to her anymore. SHE is miserable. She’s absolutely miserable with how her life has turned out. She told me this, when we were together, and I have other sources that let me know this.
    She is nearly 39, single, childless, only getting older and the crow’s feet more pronounced, has no money or career, and has no man, and her prospects fading fast. Her own decisions sabotaged her life! Her soul was the saboteur of herself and her relationship with me and, of course, with men she was with prior to me. I’m not the only one she didn’t marry; she has not married any of the men she’s fucked. She is a perfect specimen of Generation X Woman. Cue ZS to talk about the frankfurt school and this being their exact plan.
    This is another thing to really take from this blog: it is really literally 120% useless to try to argue with a woman, either during the relationship when she’s in her crazy moments or afterwards. The hamster. They will NEVER get certain things that we men get. They just cannot get it. It is impossible to get them to agree on certain things and it is literally a waste of breath to try.
    My ex GF should never have met me as she did when she was 34. She should have been married to some guy she met long before me when she was 25. And I should have been married, not divorced, from my ex wife.
    Our entire society, whether “frankfurt school” caused it or not, has been set up for 30 years to get people to not be married and in families. My ex GF no doubt blew up her past relationships because of crazy shit just as she blew up ours.
    Girls I don’t think I’m always right, but I really do think my ex GF blew up our relationship. Her soul is a saboteur. In the past, a man would have been able to foil her worst instincts.
    Today if a man does that either in a dating relationship or after marriage, he’s “controlling” or “jealous.”
    I’m not advocating what’s going on in the Islamic world, where women and children are slaves and abused, but what we had in the US 1950s — which of course the PUffed Ho crowd likes to make fun of so much — really was a proper balance for the good of society and families.
    Simply put, men need society’s support and authority (law and mores) to “control women” and protect them from their worst instincts.
    What I’m saying is proven by emperical fact now, not just my opinion. Just look around us. As it says on page 3 of the Bible if you believe GBFM’s take on the Adam and Eve story, women’s “instincts” are to be feral and party like Miley Cyrus and end up single and alone with cats and 50 notches when they are 35.
    This is one example but it’s repeated millions of times in Gen X. I know my ex GF very very very very well. I know her inner thoughts. She’s very high IQ (good at math even) and I get it. I get that some of women’s complaints are valid. But one thing that of course she would disagree with is that I swear to God I “get” her own problems better than she does herself, in certain respects. She has sabotaged her own life because of accepting the “go grrrrrrl”/don’t settle for 2nd best baby you’re too much better baby on your own Madonna/you don’t need a man/career first indoctrination she received from the age of 5 until now.
    “Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur.”
    CH, that really nails it.
    YaReally I did a good (short) reply a few threads back but not sure it will get through. Saying I appreciate you and respectfully: this is not sour grapes. I’m cmplaining about societywide macro sociology issues. The 22 year did not reject me for better beta bux. She’s not looking for ANY beta bux until she’s 35. Then she’ll go on match.com and ask “where have all the good men gone?” My complaint is that NONE of us gets a 22 year old hot, devoted wife like my grandfather did. The 22 year old is just getting started on the carousel, not looking for ANY beta bux until she’s 35. That’s the case for almost all of them.

    • @Grim
      (quick disclaimer: when I’m referring to you as a beta loser who’s only providing money etc. to girls but a loser at your core etc. etc. in my examples I’m talking about whoever the “old” Grim was, not necessarily how you are now or how you’ll be in the future as you work on your shit and develop yourself down the red pill/game path, so no disrespect intended…I was a big chumpy beta loser back in the day myself lol)
      I agree with your whole comment here you wrote, about girls and their decisions. You might enjoy reading the Manhood 101 eBook if you like this topic (there’s a lot in it about how Feminism has basically fucked girls over by encouraging them to embrace chaos instead of order in their decision-making and there’s a lot of good stuff about how men are supposed to bring order to the lives of the people (women, children, lesser men, etc.) around them and the ways we can do that and how to discipline/reward productively etc.):
      “My complaint is that NONE of us gets a 22 year old hot, devoted wife like my grandfather did. The 22 year old is just getting started on the carousel, not looking for ANY beta bux until she’s 35.”
      Ya but the thing is, and you said it yourself in your other post, your grandfather wasn’t beta bux. The culture was so different back then that the average guy was, by default, way more alpha than most manginas out there on dating sites and shit these days.
      So your grandfather was triggering in that 22yo “this guy can Provide for me AND he’s pretty alpha because he disciplines me and does manly things and has manly attitudes because we live in this era that encourages manly behavior from men instead of shaming it out of them.”
      He wasn’t some weepy whiny little bitch holding up stacks of money going “please hitch yourself to me so I can shower you with this while you roll your eyes at how unattractive I am to you for the next 60 years of your life”, which is what “beta bux” is these days and what you were (no offense, most of us were that way because our Blue Pill feminst society conditioned us to be big gay vaginas).
      Like I tend to bang around the 23yo age range, and I like to ask them about other guys and they tell me about how guys hit on them or their orbiters that chase them or even guys they like or liked at some point, and they show me text conversations with guys etc. and the shit guys are sending them is fucking embarrassing. Like beyond beta. And these guys are generally good looking and well off (most of the girls I’m with have dated way hotter/richer guys than me lol), and would be GREAT providers for them.
      But the girls want to go Eat Pray Love till they’re 35…sure, part of it is that society’s attitudes have warped to encourage girls to go off and do that, but a BIG part of it is that the offerings they have in front of them aren’t your badass grandfather who deserved a 22yo hottie devoted to him…the offerings around them are unattractive losers who can provide but are just fucking lame to the core.
      So they don’t want to reproduce with these guys or stay faithful and devoted to them or lock themselves down, even if those guys can provide for them, because they’re hoping they can find your grandfather, someone who actually gives them gina tingles AND can provide. Then at 35 they settle for the beta bux while looking for alpha fux on the side.
      If that same 22yo found a guy like your grandfather, some badass alpha who could provide, she probably WOULD devote herself and marry him. But you, at the time, weren’t offering “alpha bux”, you were offering “beta bux” and she figured she’d roll the dice and take her chances.
      Like you can’t blame society and women for this…a huge part of the blame falls on the loser guys who are hoping that if they drive a nice enough car and can provide a nice enough house for her, they can slack off and be losers in their core and she “SHOULD” logically settle for that.
      But I say fuck that. She shouldn’t settle for that anymore than you, at 25, in your prime, right as you finish med school and are about to make millions a year and just moved to some huge city like New York full of hot single women who want to fuck you, should settle for some fat chick with a shitty personality. “Well she can give me sex and devotion, so that’s good enough.” It doesn’t work like that, you would never do that. You would go hunt and try to find a hot girl who gives you sex and devotion because you’re still in your prime and that fat chick doesn’t deserve you.
      Same shit for them…some beta loser who can offer them providership doesn’t deserve them in their prime. He deserves them at 35 when they’re used up and past the wall. Until then they’re going to look for the guy like your grandfather, just like you’d be looking for a devoted hottie.

    • “My complaint is that NONE of us gets a 22 year old hot, devoted wife like my grandfather did.”
      I got one and she’s better than both of my grandfathers’ wives combined. Honestly it was a combination of very good luck and high T asshole game. I do not think I could repeat the results in today’s enviornment and I attribute my success largely to chemistry (immuno compatability + very high T meets curvy estrogen-filled) and right place right time. FWIW though…
      Small town religious girl = devoted wife. I banged the religion (quaker) out of her and now I own her. BJ or sex every morning (my choice). Even if she’s not super horny she’ll often end up having an orgasm and thanks me several times before she leaves for work. I often blow 12+ loads into her a week (like I said, high T, some guys don’t want this much action). By my count I’ve fucked her well over 3,500 times (bj’s in the thousands too. she had no idea how to suck cock when we met – very good sign) and she’s so sexy and submissive that I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of her.
      She is actually thinner than when I married her eleven years ago (size 4 then, 5’8″, legs forever, perky b cup). She works hard in the gym, prepares fresh food for me every night (best cook I’ve ever known, I challenge her constantly to prepare complicated dishes in every type of cuisine and she always succeeds), never criticizes (I leave my socks all over the house, flake on responsibilities, promise and then don’t deliver on all kinds of stuff), limited shit tests (I don’t think they ever disappear totally), very few materialistic wants (we drive old cars, live in an outdated condo, no expensive travel, she shops at goodwill), she works full time, sews, cleans, does laundry, works in the garden, makes all kinds of stuff from scratch, does not use social media, does not have a smartphone, does not watch t.v. (we live in a huge metro, not off in the boonies). When I want to party we party. When I want to relax we relax. I call all the shots and she loves it. I’ve posted here before about my formula but to summarize it: I treat her like shit. Nothing she does is ever good enough. She constantly strives to please me and always comes up short. Criticism outnumbers compliments at least 3 to 1 and every compliment comes with a neg. I run the meanest game on her and she is the happiest woman I know. Everything CH says is true.
      Unfortunately you have to catch them early (though this does mean very little investment in terms of capital and the chance for an excellent roi). She submitted totally when she was 20, married her at 23 (no engagement ring, three week engagement, married by a judge, wedding cost less than $500). I don’t buy her birthday presents or acknowledge shit like valentine’s day (never given her flowers for any reason, not once in over 14 years). I can do no wrong in her eyes. This is a case of the hamster and hypergamy working for me. She is delusional. She thinks I’m the only guy in the world for her. It’s amazing. And she is a true HB8, gets hit on constantly (customers both male and female tell her she’s beautiful five days a week, female frenemies envy/hate her), and is as tight and wet as when she was 20.
      I’m writing this for the sake of the younger guys who want a wife. Despite what many say (and they’re often right), marriage can be great. You’ll live better, longer and have more sex than your single friends. And don’t buy the idea that one woman gets boring. It hasn’t for me (or for other guys I know that married early). There are endless ways to keep it fresh and if you operate under the idea that all HB pussy is the same, it makes sense to drop as many loads as you want instead of worrying about where those loads go. Women are essentially fuck toys. Two seconds after you’re done with her your mind is back at work on the important things and instead of wasting your energy trying to find a new set of holes, you just grab your wife, bend her over (or push her to her knees) and unload. Tight pussy is tight pussy. A talented mouth is a talented mouth. And after thousands of fucks and bj’s she will be amazing in bed and totally dialed in to your preferences (plus have tons of kinky outfits).
      You cannot wait until she goes carousel (21 = club/nightlife and that’s where it starts, if not sooner). After that, it’s over. She is poisoned and there is no coming back. If you want a devoted wife (like the days of old) you have to land her early (like the days of old), and by land her I mean she comes to you. Never bring up the ltr. That’s her job. Never show her that you’re willing to totally commit. That’s her job. Never mention marriage. Never ever put her on the pedestal. The more she submits the harder you test her. Do not allow her to win, ever.
      Score as early and often as you can, with as many virgins as you can (14-15 year old virgin pussy really is amazing and you can only get it legally in most cases before you’re 17). They will be bonded to you for life, especially if you fuck their brains out and debase them in every way possible before someone else does. It pays to be first. Run asshole game starting in grade school. Don’t ever be a nice guy. Don’t listen to anything girls say. Listen to CH.
      Counterintuitive is the only way. Reject your social conditioning. If you’re making her cry you’re doing it right. Treat her worse than you’d treat a junk yard dog. Not only should you not be afraid to lose her, you should actively try to drive her away. This will make you irresistible to her. Use her as your fucktoy. Debase her. Call her names. Make fun of her. Talk to her like she’s a stupid child. Flirt with other hotties in front of her. Hit her. Never apologize for anything. Never share your feelings. Be a stone cold unpredictable son of a bitch but also make her laugh. Take her up high then slam her down low. She loves the rollercoaster. This is not an endorsement of dancing monkey game. Not at all. Do not aim to please her in any way (except in bed, but only sometimes). Please yourself. Use her for your entertainment. Your whims will provide the range of emotions she needs. She is a living breathing disaster and you can make her your slave if you understand her primal wiring. CH is right about everything.
      Like I said before, most of what happened for me was pure luck, but chance favors the prepared mind. If you’re not a natural (and even if you are), study asshole game and run it on every HB you meet. One of them will bite. Then you bite her back and make sure you leave marks.
      “not looking for ANY beta bux until she’s 35.”
      If you game her right her mind will never approach beta bux mode, regardless of her age. Beta bux is not what her emotional brain wants. Beta bux = failure for both of you.
      Do not buy into the idea that a wife = house, furnishings, landscaping, cars, clothes, travel, etc… That’s what society tells her she should want but these things didn’t exist when her brain was evolving into its current form. The one thing that did exist was the dark triad alpha male. That is what she wants. Everything else is marketing bullshit.
      Your marriage is what you make it. Keep your frame and she will never question it. Just like the good old days.

      • on May 24, 2014 at 1:15 am gunslingergregi
        dam dude interesting post
        to get the young chick ya just get the bitch you loves daughter that falls in a crush with you and talks about marrying you
        just got to wait till she turns 16 if I so chose

  96. 50s?!? Bah, LoL!

  97. you can spot sexual partners by the way they hug in public according to this link.

  98. Female huggies are an exertion of female power. What “she” is saying is:
    I can have access to your body, but if you oh silly man try to hug me I will stamp my feet about ‘sexual harassment’.”
    The proper response to a female who tries to give you a huggie is to show by your body language that she has no right to touch you. Think of such a rejection of her advances as a minor victory in the guerrilla war of freedom that men are waging.
    This has the added value of lowering her self-esteem (and preventing even more egregious abuses on her part) and raising your own status among your peers. The guy who can walk away from any female is higher up the feeding chain.

  99. I seem

  100. I am wondering how any girl can emasculate a guy who is aware and chooses to not be so. I can see some girl “trying” to do so, but her success is dependent on her attempt being taken seriously and internalized.


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