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Tell Us About All the Maddening Soft Sexism in Your Life

Tell Us About All the Maddening Soft Sexism in Your Life 1
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“Lets slip Brittanie some roofies and double team her at the softball game later!”
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otherwise known as #paranoia
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“I’ve had ideas stolen outright by men and watched them garner high praise for them.”
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Our firm recently appointed a new COO (with no experience) this is what has happened in his first 2 months in the position. You should note, we do not have an HR department, the COO is also Human Resources. The company is male dominated and the COO comes from a culture were women are looked down upon and have a certain place in society. I would call it more than soft sexism but the men all just laugh at it, so to them it’s not sexism at all.
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Why two knots?
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Where have I seen that face before? Oh, yeah!

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Maybe if you re-apply after you graduate from Catholic high school they’ll take you more seriously.
If you are a working woman who has read anything about the Ellen Pao discrimination case, your reaction has likely been one of unease and disappointment. Turns out that soft sexism—something very real, likely something you’ve experienced personally—is a slippery thing to prove in a court of law. But that doesn’t mean we should stop talking about it.
To recap, Pao lost a gender discrimination suit last week (filed in 2010, and the four-week trial just wrapped in San Francisco) against her former employer, Kleiner Perkins Caufield and Byers, a Silicon Valley venture capital firm. In this suit, she alleged that, after filing a complaint about sexual harassment, that she was retaliated against for speaking up and held back from a rightful promotion. The jury disagreed. But as Ann Friedman notes in a piece at New York magazine about the case, it wasn’t because Pao did anything wrong. In fact, she went about things exactly as corporate practices dictated she should:
When one of her co-workers made unwanted sexual advances, she reported the behavior to her supervisor. She asked that her bosses bring in sexual-harassment educators and outsiders to investigate her claims. After experiencing what she felt was retaliation for her reporting the harassment — such as not being invited to certain events, or being poorly evaluated in a performance review — she sought the advice of an outside human-resources consultant. The consultant told her “she would not be successful at [Kleiner Perkins] because she complained and that going forward she should drop her complaints, because no one would do anything about them.” And so, when that prediction proved true, she filed a lawsuit. And then she was fired.
Pao’s loss in court happened because the sorts of things Pao accused the firm of fell under the gray zone of soft sexism, that ever-so-slightly tainted smudge of ball sweat on the lens of your career that has kept you out of meetings, decisions and promotions that at best you can only fantasize about, because they aren’t actually happening to you. It’s those moments in your working and personal life that are just nagging enough that you notice them and feel the burn of unfairness, but equally subtle enough that you can’t exactly prove it as sexism.
In a more recent piece at NYMag on the Pao case, Annie Lowrey recalls a recent avatar of soft sexism, who she calls Cocktail Party Guy. Lowrey writes:
It happens all the time when my husband and I are at work events together. Cocktail Party Guy asks my husband about how things are going at his news site, and he answers. Then Cocktail Party Guy asks me how our dogs are, and I answer, before pivoting the conversation back to work — and later rolling my eyes as we walk away. It is not impolite. It is not inappropriate. But it is still, at least in my mind, sexist. Both me and my husband love our work. Both me and my husband love our dogs. One of us gets asked about our work. One of us gets asked about our dogs.
It is a form of soft discrimination that I fear might be all too familiar to all too many women — and often I find it hard to explain to my male friends and colleagues. Occasionally, I even find myself struggling to convince them that it is discrimination, and that it has consequences.
In the Pao case, there were many examples of this kind of discrimination-or-not, Lowrey writes:
Exhibit A: Pao’s performance reviews knocked her for her “sharp elbows.” There were similar negative comments in Pao’s male colleagues’ reviews, but they were nevertheless promoted. Does that demonstrate that Kleiner Perkins treated Pao differently because she was a woman? Might they have interpreted her assertiveness as “bitchiness,” and her male colleagues’ assertiveness as “strength” or “conviction”? Maybe she really did have sharp elbows, hurting her relationships with clients? Can’t women ever be criticized for being caustic?
Exhibit B: Some of Pao’s male colleagues were invited on a skiing trip. Pao was not. “The issue is that we are staying in condos, and I was thinking that gents wouldn’t mind sharing, but gals might,” Pao’s colleague wrote in an email. “We can add 4-8 women next year.” But it was a social event held outside work hours. Does it really demonstrate anything about the culture of the firm?
“It went on and on like that,” Lowrey writes. “The trial dredged up dozens of messy incidents that could be interpreted as sexist, or not.” Pao’s legal argument was discrimination based on gender. The counterargument was that it had nothing to do with her being a woman; she just wasn’t promotable. And, while we’ve all seen middlingly competent men be promoted while ambitious women are passed over, how can you really prove that women aren’t seen as leaders because of innate bias that precedes them? You can’t, it turns out.
I’ve never worked at a powerhouse VC firm, but I’ve worked in enough corporate environments to know which end of an ace is up. (Answer: whichever end a dude is holding). The soft sexism of my work life has typically boiled down to the same thing over and over again: a dismissiveness that seems to undercut or reduce female contributions, while men seem inordinately credited or praised with brilliance, great ideas, or saving the day.
It’s basically having everything you do be treated as less relevant, brilliant, important, or worth consideration. I’ve been called not bubbly enough. I’ve been told my complaint about a coworker was a personal beef and not objective. I’ve been asked to do silent work again and again to prop up the work of men without recognition or credit for it. I’ve had ideas stolen outright by men and watched them garner high praise for them.
I’ve asked friends about their own experiences: one lamented being one of the few women on a team and getting a text that a certain coworker would really like cookies for their birthday. Another remembered just noticing “coincidences,” like how the majority of middle management were women, while all the VPs were men. A woman told me she’d recently been asked to hold someone “emotionally accountable” for a project. The fuck. Another said in meetings she is always assumed to have taken notes, even though it’s not at all part of her job description.
Or perhaps it’s outside of work, like Cocktail Party Guy. A female friend of mine says when her husband introduces her to a male friend, the friend will say “oh hey” to her but then proceed to converse only with her husband, whereas when her husband is introducing another woman to her, the woman will always include both members of the couple in the conversation.
Personally, as someone who has spent a lot of time in rock scenes and dated musicians, I’ve been called Yoko Ono more times than I can even recall. Another woman I know who’s dated dude musicians backs this up: Any change the man makes in his life (for the better) is assumed to be the result of haranguing from his ball and chain, who is assumed to be eager to stand in the way of him and his creativity.
It’s hard to prove, but the stakes are high. Lowrey notes:
It’s not your boss hitting on you and then demoting you to secretary when you spurn his advances. It’s your boss describing your assertiveness as too assertive, and suggesting you might be better suited for an operational role. It’s not your being asked to fix the coffees at a client meeting. It’s Cocktail Party Guy forcing you to return the conversation to business, so you have an opportunity to develop him as a source rather than talking about dogs for 20 minutes.
It is pervasive. It is persistent. And it is so, so exhausting, all those subtle hints that you are a little different and that your behavior is being interpreted a little differently.
The consequences are real, too, she notes: Fewer opportunities. Poorer evaluations. Open yourself to hostile acts if you complain. But in spite of the bummer news about the case, Lowrey and Friedman’s pieces insist that drawing attention to the issue is still a hugely positive step and a critical part of changing things. So in honor of Ellen Pao’s bravery, let’s dish.
Illustration by Tara Jacoby

Contact the author at tracy.moore@jezebel.com.
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I work for a big utility company in a technical position, and I am one of 6 women in a group of over 30 people. The majority of the company’s 23,000 employees are male, and the overwhelming majority of women in the company work in administrative support, clerical, or other non-technical roles. The culture can be extremely male-oriented. The company is very diverse in all other aspects, but the bottom line is that the field we are in is male dominated.
The subtle shit that happens to me is stuff like being asked to cut and serve cake during group parties or being asked to help set up or clean up events. The men in my group are NEVER asked to do this. I refuse whenever possible, or else recruit a guy to help me. I absolutely never do things like make cookies or bring in treats for the group, unless it’s part of a potluck that everybody is contributing to. I am not a den mother, an admin assistant, or a maid, and I don’t want to be seen or treated like one.
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Additionally, my supervisor, whom I otherwise like and work well with, only really casually chats with the men in my group. With me, it’s strictly work-related.
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I second the second paragraph. I am always asked to set up for meetings and clean up after people even though it’s not my job. The men in my office NEVER have to do any of this, just us women.
Also, twice my boss has asked me to prepare his food on a plate for him and to microwave his soup. I didn’t serve him the plate and in the microwave incident I told him kind of jokingly “I’m going to warm it up for you because I’m in a great mood but for next time, literally all you have to do is press these two buttons.” Of course, not everyone is in the position to refuse their boss/sass him.
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Will somebody PLEASE find me a GIF of Roger from Mad Men asking Peggy for coffee during the secret move to their own company, and peggy very casually answering “no”. I believe its Season 3, episode 13.
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The first example to come to mind:
On my first comprehensive exam, after being put through a ringer about edits on an exam type for which edits are not customary (and for which colleagues who do significantly less complicated and theoretical work were not expected to submit edits), I was finally passed after my oral defense. When it came time to critique my performance in the oral defense, I was told:
“You seem too sure of your answers. It’s not that your answers were wrong, it’s that they came to you too quickly. People want to see you take a moment to think about things. You seem overly sure of yourself.”
I suggested that this was maybe because I had thought in advance of what questions might be asked and prepared answers for myself so I would be ready. Nodding, my professor replied:
“See, it’s not that the answers were wrong, you just seemed overly confident about them.”
I immediately felt like this was sexist. But I knew it was sexist when I shared it with a mixed gender group of colleagues and before I could even share my suspicions, all unanimously agreed that a male student would never have received the same criticism.
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Majority of the edits also concerned my failure to include a book that was never on my reading list to begin with, despite the only parameters of the exam being to stick to the reading list.
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My 15-year-old niece got a talking-to from her high school guidance counselor for the exact same thing. She’s “too confident in her answers,” and it upsets her male teachers. Because…they’re overly emotional, insecure crybabies, I guess?
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I work in education, specifically special education, so this isn’t usually an issue at my school site, though I have seen instances where, say, a male psychologist on the team insists that he is the only person who makes eligibility decisions, when in fact those are team decisions.
In my first year of teaching, on an all female special education team, there were times when we were meeting and I looked around the table and was overwhelmed with gratitude to be working with a group of women that had such great teamwork when it came to eligibility decisions, and was so knowledgeable about interpreting data. I wanted to scream LOOK AT ALL THESE SMART AS FUCK WOMEN GODDAMN!
The problem comes outside of school, where people think our jobs are “cute,” or that if you know how to read, you know how to teach reading.
We are currently in contract negotiations, so I have been giving flyers to parents outside of school letting them know why we are taking certain actions. One day a father said to me, “Of course you should be getting a raise. What I want to know is why they do you like this? They don’t do the fire department like that, or the police. They pay those guys right. Why don’t they pay you right?”
I was tired, so I told him the truth, “Because, if it has mostly to do with women and children, it is assumed that it couldn’t possibly require any intelligence.”
His mouth fell open. He told me I was right. I know I’m right!
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Coco, I didn't know that is your field! My mom did that for years and it is HARD FUCKING WORK. They should pay you sleigh loads of money. You keep fighting that BS, friend!
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What a great dad!!!! Ugh, teaching is so hard. I taught high school special education and I KNOW that shit is hard. I got paid less than I do now and the work as a teacher was 100x harder. When I tell people what I do now, they reply, “Wow! That sounds really hard! You must be really smart!” and I just want to slap them and say, “Remember when I was a teacher and you thought I was dumb bc obvs. one need not be smart to be a teacher?”

I witnessed soft sexism when I taught from our principal. He was buddies with all my male colleagues and would make a point to talk with them about sports.. or camping.. or MAN things every morning. He went as far as the bro slap on the shoulder. I found it irritating. I was more into those man things then a number of my male colleagues. In my current company, there are very few female executives and at a recent event with 300 people, the leaders discussed our need for more women executives. I was so excited and kept nodding my head in agreement. Some of the men in the back rolled their eyes and made faces. It’s great to talk about the discrepancy in numbers of female vs. male but talking will get us no where.
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You deserve loads of money. TONS more. It’s ludicrous how underpaid teachers are, especially those in Special Education.

But I know a lot of fireman and they are paid horribly, at least in my area. There was a bump in positive sentiment toward fire and policemen right after 911 but things have turned increasingly against those workers in the current political climate.
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I was told that my attire was “too corporate” and that I should try to “soften” my look up. My normal attire is button down shirts and slacks, just like the other (male) employees. I asked what the clothing allowance was so that I could replace my presumably offensive wardrobe on the company’s dime.
He dropped the subject but I was the “bitch” for ever after.
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I wonder sometimes. If I was “eye candy” I wouldn’t have to work so damn hard. I wouldn’t have to fight as hard for my pay raises and promotions. If I made a mistake, all I’d have to do is shake my boobs and giggle.
Just think, all I would have to do is give up my self respect and dignity. :/
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And a friend of mine was told after a post-college job interview some years ago that she wasn’t a “good fit for the firm” because her hair was too long and unprofessional. I shit you not. That’s right! Can’t win.
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Say what you will, but I don’t know a single guy that’s not envious of the fact that you can wear a sundress or even open-toed shoes and/or no sleeves on a 95-degree day when we need to wear slacks and button-front shirts, undershirts, and jackets.
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Ah, yes. When I was hired, the job description said X amount of money. I got less then X, tried to negotiate, and was told in a year I would be bumped up. In a year, I got rave performance reviews and told I was doing everything perfectly. However, all of a sudden, “Nobody gets raises or promotions” before 2 years. Until I pointed out that 3 men all got promotions before two years. One guy I work with never had an office job before this, we have parallel and same level positions, and he got a promotion (above me) at 18 months (even though I have 4 more years of experience and a masters degree in the field from an Ivy). My promotion? “Still in the HR request, it’s happening so soon though!”
Yeah. Ok.
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When you meet people for the first time and they shake everyone in the group’s hand but yours because you are the only woman. Legit they drop the last man’s hand, look at me and then smile and nod. OHHOHOHOHOFUCK THAT I just stick my hand out obnoxiously and wait until they get uncomfortable and have to shake it. And I usually have a firmer handshake than some of those limp cod-ass motherfuckers, too.
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Oh, the fucking handshakes! I don’t think I’ve ever gotten to shake hands with a man in a business context without him stopping to say some condescending shit like “Oh ho ho, what a firm grip you have!” like I’m a particularly clever toddler who just demonstrated she knows how to use a light-switch. For older guys especially, who seem surprised that I didn’t just offer the back of my hand to be kissed in the first place.
Dude, I have a firm grip because YOU have weak-ass little hands and you went at it weak because you assumed I’m weak. (I also have massive Klingon hands, but that’s just genetics. ^^)
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HAH I never thought of it that way, that they go in with a softer approach because they expect you to have fragile munchkin hands. UGH.

Next time someone makes a comment about my firm handshake I’m going to rip their arm out of their socket, curtsey and say “gee, thanks!”
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I just found out a guy I know in a professional capacity and had always assumed was a few years ahead of me is, in fact, a few years younger without relevant professional experience! But, he talks like a Dad, like he’s got all this relevant life experience, you know what I mean? So here I’ve been listening to dad-talking guy thinking he’s so wise and I just found out (via his own admission) that he’s basically ‘faking-it-til-he-makes-it.’ Dad-talking dudes, I AM ON TO YOU.
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Is he actually a dad? I feel like there is massive bias against unmarried, childless people in professional settings. Like, if people know you’re married and have kids they assume you’re more mature.
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But Dad talking is my secret to success! But seriously, I can walk into a room and start talking, and everyone will pay attention, take me seriously, and not question what I’m saying, all because I’m a dude who sounds like he knows what he’s talking about. It’s ridiculous unfair, and I don’t know what to do about it. I try to talk up and validate other people as much as possible, but there’s only so much one person can do against the system.
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There was a guy in my office who was actually dying his hair to be more salt-and-peppery to get this look, lol. Thankfully he is gone now.
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Would it help if some of the women stopped accepting everything you say at face value? Because that is another way that women can address this. Stop smiling and nodding so much, stop giving so much eye contact.
Does anyone remember that scene in The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, where her roommate goes for lessons in passing as a straight dude. He is told that a straight dude never indicates that he is listening!
But if we do that we’re bitches I guess. Oh, well!
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I edit a beer magazine so me and the SO go to beer bars and breweries quite a lot. Every single time the bartender will strike the conversation up with my SO about beer styles, trends, etc. and he’ll have to gesture over to me with while saying “I dunno, I don’t know much about beer. She’s the editor of xxyy magazine. She’s the one you should be talking to.” Followed by the bartender usually awkwardly saying something like “Oh! Wow! Good for you!”
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The same thing happens to me when guyrootof and I enter a record store. Granted, he is more of a collector than I am, but the point is, we both collect. Clerks try to talk to him about obscure jazz stuff and then barely acknowledge my presence. It's obnoxious.
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At a recent newsroom meeting where editors were debating whether I should travel to a city 7 hours away for a story, my younger male colleague (sports desk) baldly informed the room that this was terrible idea since “ChaseOM is a terrible driver!”
He was giggling.
I was furious.
I am a great driver.
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I love baseball, and since I have lady parts, I’ve spent my whole life having men try to diminish my opinions or my passion. I called a sports talk radio show once to answer a trivia question and had the (male) host ask, “Did your boyfriend give you the answer?” I wore a shirt for one of my favorite players while shopping at a Staples and had the (male) cashier make a comment under his breath that I only rooted for said player because the athlete happened to be cute. I’ve had opposing (male) fans heckle me at the ballpark (and then subsequently get publicly schooled by me).
But the most recent instance that pissed me off the very most was at a work-related cocktail hour, the day after Clayton Kershaw’s amazing no-hitter last season. I am from L.A. and a Dodgers fan, but I live in a different team’s territory right now. As such, I was the only person at the table who had actually watched the game live in TV. Everyone else had heard about it after the fact and watched the highlights. So I was sharing details about what made the game so special, and before I could finish any of my sentences, one dude in particular would interrupt me and try to take over the convo. I made a comment about how Kershaw’s game was one of the best pitched games in history, and he immediately belittled my comment with a sarcastic, “Haha, yeah right. Who is even saying that besides you?” I rattled off columnist and media outlet names. I gave him statistics. When I made a comment about how crazy that it was a game with no hits OR walks AND with 15 ks, he rolled his eyes and said, “So...a no-hitter. Lots of people have had them.” No, you dick. Not JUST a no-hitter. No hits *or* walks clearly puts this particular no-hitter in a different level, just a hair’s breadth away from a perfect game. And those strikeouts...good Lord, how do you even argue against that? He kept spouting anecdotes, I gave facts. I calmly explained my points, he laughed mid-sentence.
I can’t remember all the details of that evening because I was internally raging, and I’ve since tried to block most of it from my memory in order to continue to work with this douchebag. Thankfully, he changed jobs recently. Thinking maybe I was overreacting, I asked a mutual friend who had worked with previously what her thoughts were on him (without explaining my issues first, so I’d have an uninfluenced answer) and her immediate reply was, “Oh my god, he’s SUCH A MANSPLAINER.” Yep. I knew I wasn’t imagining it.
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I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as you are about sports; however, I do enjoy sports, particularly football. It's more than a little irritating that people assume having a vagina means you couldn't possibly be interested in sports (especially something as violent as football) and, if you do, you dont really have a good handle on the rules. Also, if you claim to be into football, you're clearly just doing it to impress boys.
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Also: I absolutely love it when women school men on something and the man doesn't know what he's talking about, but acts like he does just because he has a penis. I'm assuming everyone listening in on your conversation could tell he was an utter moron.
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I was talking to my students about video games one day and one of them said to me you play man games, ms? I lost it a little on him and told I have played games longer than he has been alive. I went through every gaming system I ever owned before asking him what are man games? The boys talk to me about games now.
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I’ve been into sports my entire life. (Less into baseball than you.) But I can’t tell you how many times people haven’t believed me. My dad (who taught me to love sports) once told me that I should pretend to know less about sports. That it intimidated men. If you’re intimidated by that, it isn’t my problem. I told him as much.
Anyway, I’m sitting in the stands of my college alma mater at a football game. I’d purchased the ticket on the street and I’m sitting in the midst of people that I don’t know. I’ve been talking about the players and game for an entire half. It is a tight game and the other team is on offense. I watch them line up and say “Oh ****, they are going to run a reverse.” (I’d watched the other team all season too and of course, they ran the reverse.) The guys I’m talking to look at me and say “You really do know a lot about football.” No kidding.
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