(cache) Titus__FlaviusがCapitalism!について記入したコメント

So I'd encourage you to read about participatory economics. The Wiki page is very good. I would also suggest reading this great article from Jacobin titled "The Red and the Black". It's long but it is an incredible article. It criticizes central planning AND aforementioned participatory economics. It also examines the shortcomings of pricing and compares the efficiency of centrally-planned Soviet economies with the "free" markets of the west (using academic sources, not just a bunch of socialist rags). However it acknowledges the necessity of price signals and deals with it in an intellectually honest and comprehensive way.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2012/12/the-red-and-the-black/

What is needed is a structure that allows autonomous firms to produce and trade goods for the market, aiming to generate a surplus of output over input — while keeping those firms public and preventing their surplus from being appropriated by a narrow class of capitalists. Under this type of system, workers can assume any degree of control they like over the management of their firms, and any “profits” can be socialized— that is, they can truly function as a signal, rather than as a motive force. But the precondition of such a system is the socialization of the means of production — structured in a way that preserves the existence of a capital market. How can all this be done?

[–]first_past_the_post 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 4 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]aletoledo -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 4 時間前 (1子コメント)

Since the initial prices are only tentative estimates, a network of direct-democratic councils must feed everyone’s consumption lists and work pledges into computers, in order to generate an improved set of prices that will bring planned levels of production and consumption (supply and demand) closer to balance. This improved price list is then published, which kicks off a second “iteration” of the process: now everyone has to rewrite their consumption requests and work pledges all over again, according to the new prices. The whole procedure is repeated several times until supply and demand are finally balanced. Eventually, everyone votes to choose between several possible plans.

So looking between the wiki and your link, it appears that you don't consider "direct-democratic councils" or "Iteration Facilitation Boards" to be central planners? Can you understand why when others like myself look at these things we might consider them to be central planners?

[–]radicalracist 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]WideLight[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 9 時間前 (17子コメント)

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[–]WideLight[S] 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 9 時間前 (14子コメント)

So your complaint about the free market is that you can start some businesses but not every single business in the world?

You clearly fail to see what this subreddit is about. I'm making no positive arguments at all. Libertarians and AnCaps often claim that in their utopian ideal of a free market anyone can start a business to compete with any other business and this will magically produce the optimal outcomes/cheapest prices/most employment/highest standard of living etc. But in the really real world of capitalism it's impossible for most people to start a great many businesses because of the aforementioned barriers of entry.

How would that be better under a command and control economy where you can start no businesses at all?

Again, no positive arguments. Just, once again, pointing out one of the most glaring flaws of Libertarian/AnCap "thinking" (such as it is).

[+]Titus__Flavius スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 8 時間前 (13子コメント)

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[–]WideLight[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 8 時間前* (6子コメント)

What part of this is hard to understand:

Libertarians use the argument that starting businesses to compete with already established businesses is the best thing ever
Real world evidence suggests that there are significant market barriers, almost impossible to overcome for many start ups, that keep new businesses out of the market
Therefore the libertarian argument that starting businesses to compete with already established businesses is not plausible and thus the argument is bullshit.

[edit]As per your edit: Capitalism accentuates and positively reinforces the worst of human behavior. Greed, lust, disloyalty, lack of empathy, etc. The only thing stopping the worst of the worst people from erecting dystopian oligarchies is government. At the moment capitalists have to beg, plead, lobby, spend tons of cash and time to do whatever they want to do. Without government, or with limited anemic government, capitalists no longer have to ask permission, beg, plead, lobby or spend tons of cash to do whatever they want. They just do it.

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[–]PraiseBeToScience 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 8 時間前* (3子コメント)

Capitalism has flaws, a big one is compound interest, which allows money to make money for doing nothing more than being money. This is a financial force that is far greater that our current tax/welfare structure and it causes money to concentrate into a tiny amount of hands. By locking capital into the hands of a select few it creates a massive barrier for 95% of people wishing to start a business.

Without the government or some other entity to counteract this effect, (i.e. redistribute capital back through the rest of the market) a capitalist system turns to feudalism. This is the entire purpose for progressive taxation, the social safety net, small business programs, estate taxes, property tax, minimum wage, anti-trust laws, etc. Weaken these programs or take them away and we are left with neo-feudalism where plutocrats replace nobility, birth rights and all.

That's a massive flaw that has nothing to do with human behavior and is inherent in the system.

Libertarians look at this and prax it into a feature.

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