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A video of 20 ALF activists breaking into a hatchery today in Israel (facebook.com)

michael560friends, not food が 投稿

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[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -17 ポイント-16 ポイント  (53子コメント)

Great. ALF doing its best to make as all look like criminals again. It is already difficult enough to have an intelligent conversation with people on the merits of converting to veganism without people associating us with fools like the ALF.

[–]The_Same_Sunvegan sXe 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

the ALF are far from fools

[–]Scaevus -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, they're criminals and terrorists, who belong in a dark cell for the rest of their miserable lives.

[–]Nikolasv 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

ALF is actually freeing animals today at threat to their freedom and future. What are you doing, besides acting like this is an issue about people's perceptions of you by association? To criticize ALF militants you have to actually be doing something worthy to make your opinion have weight.

Opposing organized injustice that is legal is what every social justice movement has done before they succeeded. It would be nice if abusing animals was not legal, but it is.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What are you doing

I could ask you the same thing.

Opposing organized injustice that is legal is what every social justice movement has done before it succeeded.

"It has worked for centuries, like eating meat. Why change it or do something less barbaric and violent when this works so well?"

[–]Nikolasv 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am not saying everyone has to do ALF level self-sacrifice, but at least don't fucking criticize them and censure them from the keyboard. Especially from your lame context of "what will be thought of me, me, me, by association."

Are you just trolling on that last sentence? It is hard to know if people here are this clueless or just trolling. It is what is to be perhaps though when actually still racist and imperialist societies have pretended to be post-racist and post-imperialist and created lots of official myths about the Civil Rights, abolitionist and other past social movements. In the Underground Railroad they illegally helped black slaves escape to the relative freedom of the North. The Civil Rights Movement violated alot of Jim Crow era laws.

But I am wasting my time on someone who is all about the opinion of the mainstream public and himself/herself. Animal liberation is not compatible with respecting laws meant to subjugate animals or dominant public opinion that has no problem that they are mostly considered as property legally.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You must be the politician if you are always concerned about what people think of you as a vegan

That is what I am. An asexual vegan who cannot help but care what others think of me and adjusts her life according to what others consider to be normal and acceptable.

Try again.

FYI, alot of anarchists who are not vegan and don't care much about veganism promote ALF liberations in their media

Oh! Well then! Other people said it is okay! Do you actually have anything better than "This person said so"?

Law and order types are the least likely to support animal liberation because it is against the current law and order. Such people cannot think outside of the system and develop alternative or their own values.

The problem is that this does not inherently mean the lawful stance is the flawed or wrong one.

[–]2PacksADayveganarchist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

im proud to be associated with the ALF. They are heroes.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Ah yes, because no misinformed individual has ever considered a radical militant extremist group to be 'heroes' before. That is why ISIS has no members.

[–]rinabeanRadical Preachy Vegan -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You're going on about crazy people but you are the one who just compared saving baby animals to murdering people

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

How nice of you to grace us with your presence just long enough for you to disable reply notifications and ignore any response that does not align with what you think, just because you do not want to hear another point of view outside of your own.

Boy oh boy, I certainly hope that replying to you is not a waste of time and energy. Again.

[–]rinabeanRadical Preachy Vegan -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Who are you

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Uh huh. I'll be here waiting for your next "Oh wait, I remember you now" revelation, just like last time.

[–]rinabeanRadical Preachy Vegan -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Literally what is your problem omfg

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

omfg lol lyk wtf r u even 4 reel?

I feel as though I need to lower my IQ by several orders just so I can read your responses.

Use your big girl words.

[–]rinabeanRadical Preachy Vegan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then why are you here? You have a bizarre obsession with me. Grow the fuck up

[–]2PacksADayveganarchist -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you're american, your country was founded by radical militant extremists. Slave revolts were led by radical militant extremists. People throughout history have liberated themselves from brutal subjugation through militancy, from violent resistance in SA apartheid to the LGBT riots in stonewall. Begging the political elite to throw us some breadcrumbs is not an effective way of bringing about change

Try writing some sternly worded letters to your local representative and let me know how many animals you end up saving.

This MLK quote is applicable to you

First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Australian.

Try again.

[–]andjokRadical Preachy Vegan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Just want to let you know I agree with you. I don't think any sort of violence, whether it be against persons or property, can really work given that most people still disagree with us and will not see the violence in the right context.

Granted, the act shown here is not nearly as bad as when they burn down buildings, where animals may be harmed that live in the walls or nearby. But regardless, the demand is still there so any animals they save will be replaced to meet that demand.

And I'm not sure what good it does to have these people in jail when they could be out educating people about veganism and thus reducing demand for animal products.

[–]tk3287 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are not the target audience.

[–]andjokRadical Preachy Vegan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've read this before and I still disagree. Ultimately we're going to need a lot more support from the public to change things for animals, so I don't think public opinion should be dismissed when evaluating what tactics to use.

[–]tk3287 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough, just thought I'd post it in case you hadn't seen it.

I'm not particularly in favour of militant tactics, but I don't condemn them either.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I largely view the ALF as a group of people that steals meat from a supermarket distribution centre in order to prevent people from eating it.

The company that owns the supermarket writes it off as a loss, claims the incident on insurance, replaces the stolen meat and carries on like nothing ever happened.

[–]andjokRadical Preachy Vegan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. People who do this sort of thing don't understand economics.

[–]howtospeakraw vegan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Israel is going to have a 20% vegan pop in just a few years.

[–]OhLookAnOpinonvegan 20+ years -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Oh good. All of them thinking the ALF is an example of a reasonable way to behave. Radicalism and intimidation tactics being admired by 20% of the population. What could possibly go wrong?

[–]I_EAT_YOUR_CEREAL 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Some believe in direct action, others believe in slow law changing. Fact is animals are dying and suffering now and as a vegan I struggle to see what your problem is with saving animals that are being exploited as we speak.