(cache) 2bABeeがIs finding a long-term relationship/marriage harder for us than our parents' generation?について記入したコメント

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Is finding a long-term relationship/marriage harder for us than our parents' generation? (self.OkCupid)

SenoraKitsch26/F/Asia/recovering serial monogamist が 1 日前 * 投稿

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[–]2bABeeYour #1 best friend -43 ポイント-42 ポイント-41 ポイント 1 日前 (54子コメント)

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 38 ポイント39 ポイント40 ポイント 1 日前 (43子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-50 ポイント-49 ポイント-48 ポイント 1 日前* (42子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 32 ポイント33 ポイント34 ポイント 1 日前 (8子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-31 ポイント-30 ポイント-29 ポイント 1 日前 (7子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 1 日前 (6子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-15 ポイント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント 1 日前 (5子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 日前 (3子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-16 ポイント-15 ポイント-14 ポイント 23 時間前 (2子コメント)

I don't really know that you know how to debate, or like, even comprehend what is being said, as most of the time your points are tinged with such presumption and self-righteousness that they impede your ability to communicate clearly.

Which exactly the point I was making about 'undesirable consequences'. Because that's larger how you come across to me from your original post about your abused mom. Your perspective is highly colored by your own life experience. But I don't see that is grounds for dismissing it.

But It's nice you think I'm a moron because I don't agree with you and offer a different perspective. You're in good company here in that regard.

My biggest presumption is that I can possibly poke holes in the warm blanket of young urban liberal smugness this subreddit weaves due to its demographics.

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 23 時間前 (1子コメント)

But It's nice you think I'm a moron because I don't agree with you and offer a different perspective. You're in good company here in that regard.

I don't think you're a moron. Again, you've presumed to know how I feel or what I think. I do think, however, that in this particular case your contribution to this conversation was, ah, limited at best; you haven't offered something insightful here--or at least, not as insightful as you may think it is.

We also had a similar conversation under my previous name about how I was obviously part of some sort of financial elite, and how my experiences are obviously all filtered through that experience that you completely fabricated, as it doesn't exist and isn't real. Your presumptions about the people who frequent this sub and your ME vs. THE WORLD attitude informs a large portion of your interactions with people. You're still very likable, but it's something that crops up with you on the regs, and becomes more evident the deeper into conversation anyone goes with you.

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[–]Yourwtfismyftw 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 7 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 1 日前 (5子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-15 ポイント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント 1 日前 (4子コメント)

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 日前 (2子コメント)

Right... That woman did the calculus and thought his fits and temper tantrums were worth it because he never hit her. Just yelled and threw things. And kicked a cat that died from injuries. For 20 years.

Until he did. Because violence escalates. If she had left when he had never hurt her she wouldn't have had to be picked up at the hospital. (I think their kids were grown or nearly grown at that point? So at least she didn't have them to worry about).

Yes, I only saw the worst. But they didn't think they were in the worst situation for months to years before they got to me. And they usually went back. I can't re ever the exact number... But in the early 2000's a woman killed by a violent partner had tried to leave an average of 4 times? Something like that. For social cohesion. Because it wasn't that bad. Until it was that bad.

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント 23 時間前 (1子コメント)

Because it wasn't that bad. Until it was that bad.

No shit. We can't predict the future, but I could go insane and murder my gf tomorrow. And you could all retroactively sit around and be like 'I knew he was a sick fucker because of those comments he posted yesterday. I KNEW IT.'

Are we blaming this woman for not having seen the signs? I'm confused what purpose her exactly is having other than 'this is what happens, and could happen to anyone.' And you're totally right, but it's not a healthy position to make choices from, because it's borderline paranoid.

I mean what are we suppose to do with that woman? Force her to leave her husband? Take her into protective custody? Or should we have manipulated her for her own good? Unless we're prepared to do that, then we have to stand by and respect her autonomy. It's unfortunate and often horribly tragic, but that was part of my line in this thread, was respecting people's autonomy to make their own choices, regardless of how wrong/horrible we think they may be.

I was not talking about cases where someone wanted to leave, I'm talking about the case you don't even see because she accepts pain as part of a marriage, and through her belief system perhaps forgives her husband as a sinner or whatnot. I am not prepared to tell that person their relationship is horrible and wrong and unhappy if they report to me that it is, because even if it would make me unhappy, and I am willing to believe them or give them the benefit of the doubt. However, I am not talking about a case of systematic abuse designed to undermine the other person's autonomy and terrorize them. Which perhaps you don't believe plausibly or effectively exists.

Maybe another way to put it is if I knew my granddad slapped my grandma around but saw it as a fault or saw it as corrective to her being a nutter, given their context and time I'm not willing to call that an abusive relationship or assume that my own relationships which do not tolerate such are categorically better than theirs.

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 22 時間前 (0子コメント)

I believe that the person experiencing systematic abuse designed to undermine their autonomy and terrorize them, will have often rationalized their situation such that they will believe they are in a situation where they are ultimately safe and their partner is not going to hurt them in a more than fleeting physical way.

I probably also believe that it doesn't exist to any extent as to be significant, but whether or not it does is irrelevant, as I would rather we live in a wold where people are told "you do not have to tolerate being injured. It is okay to leave. It doesn't make you bad and it doesn't make you a failure. It is okay to take care of yourself" than to hear that "if you really care about your community you would stay. Leaving means you are incapable of sacrificing for something greater than yourself. A good person would stay."

That's how people get hurt.

I don't judge anyone who stays. I don't think I'm better than them. But I don't tolerate language that makes people who leave or want to leave feel like they are broken or bad or in any way worse than the person who hurt them.

[–]thursdaygirl/u/4soccer #1 fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 23 時間前 (0子コメント)

A woman doing the calculus in her head.... her math is based on being abused verbally/emotionally/ even if not physically, or only "mildly".

When is any abuse okay? Only when you've been told you are not worth not being abused.

I didn't work in a DV shelter, I was abused. My calculus everyday that I stayed was faulty, distorted by years of abuse which told me I was worthless. This is the same for any woman who is abused (yes, I am explicitly being universal here, and making a generalization. Please look up dv studies and statistics if you want to impeach).

I stayed and stayed and stayed, like every woman does. Hoping things would get better, thinking it was my fault, thinking I was protecting my son. What my son learned was that I was weak and no-one could protect him. This is what children of emotionally/physically/verbally abusive relationships learn, even if they are never touched, even when the parents think they are staying together for the child's sake.

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 1 日前 (26子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-26 ポイント-25 ポイント-24 ポイント 1 日前 (25子コメント)

[–]DisasterAtDawn37/Not a Bro 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 日前 (9子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント 23 時間前 (8子コメント)

[–]DisasterAtDawn37/Not a Bro 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 22 時間前* (7子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 21 時間前 (6子コメント)

[–]DisasterAtDawn37/Not a Bro 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 21 時間前* (5子コメント)

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[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 1 日前 (14子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 日前 (2子コメント)

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 日前 (1子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 日前 (0子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント 1 日前 (10子コメント)

So I should generalize based off that experience that all forms of abuse are equally bad? That's simply naive.

Anyways, you're hyperbolizing my argument away. I specifically said that it was in the situation where it was NOT serious/threatening. I understand that the norm is any violence is 100% not permissible, but there are situations like I outlined above that aren't exactly clear cut, and a few decades ago would be consider totally normal/healthy.

What I'm going after is our arrogance that we are 'better/more correct' 100% in our ideas of what constitutes a 'happy' relationship. Because by our standards we are basically saying people like the Amish or other marginal groups (like uneducated people that never left their hometown and 'settled') that don't have our social standards are basically incapable of being 'happy'. Which is extremely arrogant on our part.

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 日前 (8子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント 23 時間前 (7子コメント)

[–]GirlFromYourTownLizard Queen Bee 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 23 時間前 (6子コメント)

I'm not making an universal law out of one example. I'm using one very clear example to illustrate something that people who study and work with interpersonal violence will tell you: violence escalates more often than not.

And it's beside the point as raising children in homes where physical violence occurs (whether the victim gets out or accepts it) is the surest way to raise either future victims or future victimizers. The single most common trait among people who experience partner violence is having a parents who were violent.

It is worse for society to raise children in violent homes than not. It's not just something that seems true, it is true.

You're being contrarian... I get it. You think it's funny that I'm taking this personally. But your point of view hurts people. Actually causes them physical harm. It's not a thought exercise to me.

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[–]sandithrow 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 23 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]JawsOfThirst51/M/NorCal go get my stogie, kid 25 ポイント26 ポイント27 ポイント 1 日前 (4子コメント)

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[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-24 ポイント-23 ポイント-22 ポイント 1 日前 (2子コメント)

[–]JawsOfThirst51/M/NorCal go get my stogie, kid 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 1 日前 (1子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント 1 日前 (0子コメント)

[–]TotesMessenger 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 23 時間前 (1子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 22 時間前 (0子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 日前 (2子コメント)

[+]2bABeeYour #1 best friend スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント 1 日前 (1子コメント)

[–]macaroniandsleazedefinitely lloyd dobler 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 日前 (0子コメント)

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