WTFast affiliate influenced Reddit mods in decision to remove critical video

Gnarsies · 1 時間前

Wonderful. I love how WTFast affiliates can go and complain to subreddit mods, and then I get wrongfully accused for inciting "witch hunts" and doing "personal attacks".

I use the word "evidence" at some point in the video and I am wrong, I annotated "testimony" in after people complained. They are right; I'm wrong. I wanted to push out a video for wednesday and I did not go over my script. The video was rushed because I had worked on two other pieces of content and I wasn't happy with the end result. However, considering the context, I do not understand why I was told that it was a "witch hunt"

A moderator in modmail told me I was inciting witch hunts because I said that Steam users brigaded the WTFast Steam page. He clearly did not understand the context as I was talking about something that already happened and I wasn't telling people to go brigade the page. I've also had this discussion publicly with the mods: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/30ajei/wtfast_and_league_youtubers/cprm0wq?context=5

You people are incompetent sods when it comes to dealing with controversies like this. Why wasn't I included in this discussion before my content was pulled when someone who clearly has a bias complains to you about it. And that's just not him, I've gotten tons of shit from Youtube content creators, even those who admitted to me that they are literally just taking the money from WTFast, regardless of the quality of the product; they do not use the product.

Keyori made this statement on my video's comments ( http://i.imgur.com/F5kQZvw.png ), I think his point is entirely reasonable, but you content creators have decided that I'm jealous and that Keyori is an "arrogant idiot full of ego with no beard", because we don't want to push products we do not personally vouch for to our viewers, we have this thing called standards.

If anything, you people are doing witch hunting by brigading in secret skype groups, where you pat each other's back by cheating the reddit system by upvoting each other's videos to get frontpage in order to get exposure ( http://i.imgur.com/VMIY2j9.png http://i.imgur.com/OGxvmX7.png ), and that I should now be excluded for calling out your behavior (I won't go over the mountain of stupid shit you've said about me and Keyori). I've tried to incriminate people as least as possible as I respect your content and I didn't want people to go after you. The only reason I use Brofresco's WTFast intro is because I think it's cringeworthy, and I do not mention him in name. And I've blacked out that other content creator's name. When Sky made his streamers video, you people decided to go after him as well. I am sick of your hypocritical bullshit. You people are the epitome of lack of any standards. I have already submitted part of the list of people included in that Skype group to a moderator, and I hope they do something about it.

I am very disappointed in the mod team that I'm being wrongfully libeled against for things I didn't do, and that my submission, which sparked a discussion, was pulled off the frontpage even though it had a 90% upvote ratio.

Tortysc · 2 時間前

Wonder how mods will mod this thread. Clear conflict of interest, so if they decide to delete it, we will know for sure.

HeavenLegacy · 1 時間前

I like Voyboy's wording of "Is the service a 'COMPLETE' scam? NO." 90% Scam, 10% 'NO' :P?

AuDIOGASMS · 1 時間前

Man, Richard must really hate this subreddit. lol

PillageTruth · 54 分前

LOL they removed gnarsies post and then it was restored.. 10/10'

Edit: Apparently it was because the skype pics weren't censored. I had just finished microwaving my popcorn...

Delko999 · 1 時間前

Voyboy just lost my respect,good job!

Cantabiley · 1 時間前

Screw Voyboy, I'm not watching his stream anymore. What a fucking sellout, advocating for a program which is basically a scam!

And fuck the mods and their star struck decision making.

Ansibled · 2 時間前

On a slightly related topic of /r/leagueoflegends moderation, can someone explain this to me?

ChronicProductivity · 1 時間前

Now I'm really curious about the video. Anybody got a link or know who uploaded it?

xNicolex · 2 時間前

I think instead of this sub-reddit adding more mods and making posts about that.

How about removing some of the bad ones? Mentioning no names of course, wouldn't want to start a witch-hunt or anything.

the_jimin · 1 時間前

Honestly, videos like this benefit /r/leagueoflegends more than the countless "Rito pls" threads we keep seeing

getrektEUlol · 1 時間前

hey so... fuck you to voyboy right?

Volacrity · 1 時間前

Voyboy, what the fuck...

hideouszippleback · 2 時間前

Seems to me that when something is BS, it (usually) gets called out pretty quickly by the Reddit detectives. There have been a number of threads over the past few months that made claims, rocketed to page one, only to then be called out as crap by someone. It seems like a self-correcting problem. If something is openly slanderous, then there might be a case for a takedown. But anything other than that should live or die by the system IMO.

Mods are just trying to do their best, I have no doubt, but this is taking editorial license too far. To do a 180 flip flop the minute a celebrity says something really shakes my faith in this subreddit, however well-intentioned the mods are. If Voyboy had made that same comment in the video thread (maybe he did, I dunno) it would likely have made it to the top and people could have engaged in discussion. Now it just looks like censorship and there are accusations of corruption and collusion flying around.

Gotta take a lighter hand with this stuff, mods. Just my 2 cents.

Garb-O · 45 分前

I would say start a new League reddit but, i dunno what it would be called

Smalley37 · 2 時間前

How long until the mods make the "There are a lot of mods and we didn't communicate enough and we accidentally took it down" excuse?

DerberAuner · 1 時間前

sooo, just out of curiosity, moderators, why does this not fall under witchhunting?

or are you just making an exception cause of the backlash you would get if you took this post down?

minos157 · 1 時間前

Video showcasing a company that scams it's base and has shady practices, gets 90% upvoted ---- removed by mods due to shady back room dealings.

Blatant advertisement by Logitech, 64% upvoted ----- NO PROBLEM.

I think it's time for some changes in the mod booth boys. Not naming names though, don't want to witch hunt.

xxficusxx · 46 分前

Inb4 Dailydot starts massive witch-hunt for mods :^ )

Dmienduerst · 1 時間前

Sigh I guess I feel like the only one who can see where the mods are coming from. Its really really hard to know where to draw the line on these borderline cases. There will never be consistency but there is a need for a line to be drawn. The mods are in a lose lose situation. They fuck up we slaughter them for it they do a good job we never see it. They are the Offensive line of reddit. I really don't know exactly what Lewis is after in this case as this one seems like the mods doing a good job of drawing a line. They explain why the line is where it is for the guy. As for Voyboy the guy makes a good point one which I didn't need Voyboy to point out. I don't see how what Voyboy posted leads to accusations of influence. What popular people can't say their opinion now?

Not to say the Mods are flawless but seriously if the rules are in place follow the rules. If you break the rules and the mods hit you for it thats on you. If you don't agree with the rule then lets have that conversation and try to see if we can get the rules changed. If you love to sit on the grey area YOUR STUFF IS GOING TO GET HIT. I have yet to see a conclusive case of Mods overstepping beyond the rules allows them. I would argue the rules give to much power. Fine lets change that then and stop attacking the judges because that will get us nowhere.

caiada · 1 時間前

Why's it always a global conspiracy, not humans making human decisions on subjective issues?

Nonsensei · 1 時間前

It's a goddamn scam people. Your ping only appears to be lower because the VPN is located closer to Riot's servers. It exploits how ping is calculated by your computer while not actually providing better performance.

You cannot change your real ping. Think about it. If you are sending a ping 10,000 km (x2 round trip), the absolute lowest your ping can be is 67 based on the speed of light. Factor in things like bandwidth hogging and hardware switching and your ping is going to be much higher than that in an average case scenario. Routing your traffic through a VPN will do jack to your data transfer rates. It won't increase your bandwidth, it won't reduce the hardware switching, and it sure as hell won't change the speed of light.

What bothers me most about WTFast and all their sponsored affiliates is that they're basically preying upon the technologically incompetent. It's basically snake oil.

CLG_Alchemist · 36 分前

Another instance in which Korean Terran seems to be the center of Reddit controversy. Why hasn't this mod been removed yet?

Ajido · 1 時間前

The facts laid out in the video were solid, even if some of the language used was less than flattering.

No, they weren't. The facts against the unethical business practices were solid and 100% true, no one is disputing that. But he provides no facts when he attacks the software, all he does is call it garbage (Literally) multiple times and calls it snake oil saying it doesn't do anything.

Those aren't facts, the guy used the first three-quarters of his video to build up the viewer's hate for the company, and once he had them hooked he switched to a baseless attack on the program itself.

What he did was dishonest and misleading, but because of how human nature works, the hatred for the company outweighs anything wrong the video creator may have done, so the masses will side with him, and anyone trying to defend the program (Not the company), gets attacked by commenters.

The moderators initially cited a "call to action" in the video as the reason for its removal.

Regardless of what they may have said, there was a call to action. The video creator specifically calls on Youtubers and streamers to boycott WTFast's "garbage" product. How is that not a call to action?

"a lot of YouTubers are advertising it boots your connection between you and Riot which is BS"

So one person in a Skype chat making a claim means it's true? I've paid for this program for five months now and can hardly play League on the east coast without it, it does work, people just have no clue how to properly use a VPN and make these bogus claims. In the deleted thread, one of the most upvoted comments was something along the lines of "i used this program for 5 minutes and knew it was unstable". But because of all the hate for the company, it gets upvotes from people who've never used it, no idea how it works, etc.

Edit: Thanks for the gold, WTFast ^{^{^{^Its}}} ^{^{^{^a}}} ^{^{^{^joke.}}} ^{^{^{^{^{^I}}}}} ^{^{^{^{^{^think..}}}}}

brightinly · 1 時間前

"critical video" Only the first half was critical about it, the rest was just mindless bashing to a product he never even proved to have used.

wirkcl · 1 時間前

I'm extremely disappointment in Voyboy, he now only cares about the money, first he leaves competitive gaming for easy stream money and now he promotes some shitty botnet/scam to make some extra dollars.

Suiiii · 1 時間前

Wait, how did dailydot get a screenshot from Voyboy's message to the mods? Are the mods now leaking screenshots to the press who are criticising them? Also quite concerning that private messages are not really private.

BjergCop · 1 時間前

Is league subreddit slowly turning into an Anarchy?

bobosletje · 55 分前

I haven't been keeping track of the situation and what WTFast is charging for. Can someone give me a quick update?

S7EFEN · 54 分前

What exactly is the issue?

WTFast works for people who have ISPs who are doing something wrong with League of Legends traffic.

If you have bad ping because you are far from the server no program is going to change that.

If you have bad ping because your league of legends traffic is being sent to the riot servers in a really inefficient way, or your ISP is throttling LoL traffic? WTFast is great.

If you are using anything you find on the internet you should do some fuking research beforehand.

trickingmyfriends · 53 分前

Well I was gona try WTFast, but now Ima just hope they go broke asap. Thanks for changing my feelings reddit!

Jasonium · 48 分前

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure they did some shady things but the product works (it helps me connect to TW server at 160 ping from Cali) and it's free. Who are they scamming?

Going_incognito · 43 分前

Why should we care? Just curious.

For me personally, I have never seen any advertisements for it before all this drama, but I wouldn't use this software anyway.

If anything, all this has done is give publicity to WTFast.

Lyriq · 33 分前

Man I can't wait for the ESEX article

ThighMaster250 · 25 分前

Has there ever been a VPN service like this that actually delivers on what it promises? BattlePing and SmoothPing come to mind and the majority takeaway from all three of these has seemed to be that if it is doing something its not noticeable.

I feel like if someone actually had a service that worked they would be showing that data all over their site. Like here is verifiable proof of concept. Go take a look at WTFast's site and there is practically nothing. They rely on testimonials and an animated youtube video claiming it reduces ping by 30-60% as evidence of their product's effectiveness. So if somebody hasn't put up evidence their product works then why do you need hard evidence to tear it down? The burden is on the seller, not the consumer to suss out whether or not a product does the thing it's creator/sales force claim it does.

When somebody is selling garbage and they know its garbage, they try to bury the trash for as long as possible. The seller wants to rope in the gullible before word can disseminate on their product. We see this all the time. Terrible movies/games that a studio knows are bombs will embargo reviewers until the day of release. Ferrari has been pissy in the past about reviews where a team of techs wasn't around to tune up the car before the reviewer's butt hits the seat. Hell, even Kickstarters that seem far past too good to be true given the education and nature of the team involved. The point in using examples of $60 games and $200,000 supercars is to show that the theory remains the same, just the application changes to the medium/audience/product. In this instance the product says it delivers on lower ping and has no evidence of this other than testimonials by anonymous folks on it's creator's site.

On the flip side, I get that WTFast needs to cover their asses to a degree. Their VPN service, if it works like they claim, is going to jack diddly if someone lives in the same town as the server farm they are trying to access. But where is the actual data for someone supposedly benefiting from the service who lives a continent away or several miles over? WTFast has a dead end link on their page to a supposed self reported survey with the banner "Don't take our word for it" with no results. That is it!

Folks need to just accept that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is and it isn't anyone but the product creator's job to prove that point of contention. In this case WTFast has failed miserably.

As for the mods... jesus fuck. That's too much to get into. You got top players holding considerable sway, knee jerk reactions, inability to understand reports of past action versus calls to future action. Just blergh.

Edit: The banner I'm getting for the sub at the moment reads "Voyboy, anything for you bby <3." Funny given the circumstances...

Shadostruct · 2 分前

Ok, I'm going to offer a balanced point of view on this issue. I doubt it'll be read in the clusterfuck that has become this thread, but I'll try regardless.

First off, I think "witch-hunting" is a bullshit reason to pull that video. Second off, I think it was right to pull that video because it makes claims that simply misunderstand what a VPN is and does as well as not being anything League related in the least. Third off, it shouldn't have gotten to the front page, but once it was there it should've stayed because at that point it's too late and it's more hassle removing it and trying to cover it up than just letting people discuss it.

I have no sponsors, I am not affiliated with any companies, I am not a fanboy of any streamers that advertise for WTFast. While I have used the premium version of the product, I have not paid for it myself as the account was lent to me from a viewer for a month. I think this is about as unbiased as it can get.

WTFast employed shady business practices that should be actively condemned by the gaming community in regards to how they handled Steam reviews both negative and positive. Your sponsors do reflect upon you, content creators, whether you want it to or not. I will not defend anything to do with the unethical practices this company has done to stifle honest reviews of their product.

That being said, their product works as advertised. It's not a scam as so many are getting on the bandwagon and saying. I've seen some really stupid things being said in regards to how VPNs work. Things like "It lowers what your ping shows, but this doesn't actually affect performance." Wrong. So wrong. So utterly wrong.

As said in another comment by me in this topic:

Ping is just the time it takes for packets to travel to and from the servers they're communicating with. Things that affect this travel time are: amount of hops, congestion, physical distance, and priorities of certain packets. WTFast is just a VPN. That's all it fucking is. The way it reduces ping is by changing the routing your packets go through to less congested routes with fewer hops.

.

So if you have 60 ms ping and you right click the ground in front of you it will take 60 ms for the action to register. 100 ping is deemed fairly bad because it's .1 of a second, a noticeable amount of time.

If it was a straight line perfect scenario the ping would be X ms. Now add on the factors that increase ping just from infrastructure and you're probably closer to ~X+30 ms. A VPN reduces your ping not by claiming it goes faster than the speed of light, it reduces it by giving you better routing through the infrastructure of the net, so that ~X+30ms might go down to ~X+10 ms.

The reason WTFast or other gaming VPNs (Battleping, etc) is used by so many Australians is because they live so far away the amount of hops their packets take is astronomical on top of the geographic issue of distance. So people overseas connecting to American servers generally see a better performance out of a VPN than someone on the continental US.

When I personally used the program I found it inconvenient and setups that should work better than others didn't. That being said, I got a ~20ms ping reduction. I live on the East Coast, and was getting about 100 ping at the time. I got it down to around 80. Would I recommend the product? Probably not unless you're desperate for a ping decrease or overseas and want to connect to something like an American MMO server. Does the product work? To a degree, yes, it's a VPN, if you do your research on VPNs it's just like any other VPN with an advertisement platform targeted at gamers.

Stop clogging the issue with a whole bunch of garbage that can be easily dispelled by anyone who does some research on how VPNs work. What WTFast did was shitty in how they handled Steam reviews, you don't need anything more to justify avoiding the product.

Yeahdudex · 1 時間前

Vooby.. You disappoint me man.

DarthVantos · 1 時間前

The scary thing is what would have happened if richard lewis never covered this story? How many similar things have happened, reported and influenced by a third party and the mods bow their heads. I hate corruption, we've already seen what happened with the whole "Spectate faker" and "scripters" scandals.

"Morally obligated" While trying to mod a sub-reddit, who needs rules when you are Morally obligated.

Philiq · 1 時間前

"Oh my god the one and only Voyboy sent a private message to me!!!! I am so starstruck and in awe of his fake Riot-approved streaming personality that i will oblige to his call for censorship and ethical misconduct, based on the monetary benefits he is currently gaining from a shady as fuck company."

-Unnamed subreddit mod, 2015

Wouldn't want to start a witch-hunt now boys ;)

next_DanDy · 32 分前

I don't want to defend Voyboy. He's a total sellout and lost the little respect I had for him, not that matters for someone like him. But let's not forget that there are a lot of looooved League Youtubers that were/are also promoting WTFast. Fuck Voyboy, but fuck all the others too.

Shermanderland · 59 分前

Well, they're fucked now. It sounded like a cash grab to begin with, and now this? If your business is to help gamers your priority should be helping the fucking gamers and not just looking like you are.

Blackdeath939 · 42 分前

Did Voyboy just sold his soul?

NotEvenXz1 · 1 時間前

Probably was a hard decision, obviouly not going in the mods' favor, since the majority jumped on the bandwagon hating wtfast, which, arguably, did some shady shit. I get that entirely.

What I don't get is how this is allegedly "Selling out", when it's a sponsor to help pay the bills. It doesn't always work, sure. Not everything is fault free.

Selling out, in my opinion, is a league only streamer advertising Smite, another moba, purely for money.

HotSauceJohnson · 1 時間前

[deleted]

hamoorftw · 1 時間前

I don't understand this sudden circlejerk. wtfast works, and it definitely not "snake oil" like that dude said.

jugger77 · 1 時間前

voyboy is a dumbass

DanielShaww · 50 分前

If you go into a non redirect Google page and type "League of Legends", this subreddit will apear on the first page (along with the usual suspects: the official website, LCS site, etc). This means this subreddit is immensely powerful as to where it can draw attention, both good or bad.

Right now, 22k people of a very strict demographic (western, tech savy,19-35 years old, likes video games, has disposable income) is online RIGHT now, and they represent hundreds of thousands of potential income revenue, that is why there's a huge pressure for scummy companies to do this kind of stuff, and even more pressure onto moderators who, believe me, get tons of "offers" to let some things pass.

Qu401 · 1 時間前

Is there a way to remove Moderators, The league subreddit has shown time and time again to have biased and corrupted Moderators.

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