評価の高い 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Gnarsies 1890 ポイント1891 ポイント  (311子コメント)

Wonderful. I love how WTFast affiliates can go and complain to subreddit mods, and then I get wrongfully accused for inciting "witch hunts" and doing "personal attacks".

I use the word "evidence" at some point in the video and I am wrong, I annotated "testimony" in after people complained. They are right; I'm wrong. I wanted to push out a video for wednesday and I did not go over my script. The video was rushed because I had worked on two other pieces of content and I wasn't happy with the end result. However, considering the context, I do not understand why I was told that it was a "witch hunt"

A moderator in modmail told me I was inciting witch hunts because I said that Steam users brigaded the WTFast Steam page. He clearly did not understand the context as I was talking about something that already happened and I wasn't telling people to go brigade the page. I've also had this discussion publicly with the mods: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/30ajei/wtfast_and_league_youtubers/cprm0wq?context=5

You people are incompetent sods when it comes to dealing with controversies like this. Why wasn't I included in this discussion before my content was pulled when someone who clearly has a bias complains to you about it. And that's just not him, I've gotten tons of shit from Youtube content creators, even those who admitted to me that they are literally just taking the money from WTFast, regardless of the quality of the product; they do not use the product.

Keyori made this statement on my video's comments ( http://i.imgur.com/F5kQZvw.png ), I think his point is entirely reasonable, but you content creators have decided that I'm jealous and that Keyori is an "arrogant idiot full of ego with no beard", because we don't want to push products we do not personally vouch for to our viewers, we have this thing called standards.

If anything, you people are doing witch hunting by brigading in secret skype groups, where you pat each other's back by cheating the reddit system by upvoting each other's videos to get frontpage in order to get exposure ( http://i.imgur.com/VMIY2j9.png http://i.imgur.com/OGxvmX7.png ), and that I should now be excluded for calling out your behavior (I won't go over the mountain of stupid shit you've said about me and Keyori). I've tried to incriminate people as least as possible as I respect your content and I didn't want people to go after you. The only reason I use Brofresco's WTFast intro is because I think it's cringeworthy, and I do not mention him in name. And I've blacked out that other content creator's name. When Sky made his streamers video, you people decided to go after him as well. I am sick of your hypocritical bullshit. You people are the epitome of lack of any standards. I have already submitted part of the list of people included in that Skype group to a moderator, and I hope they do something about it.

I am very disappointed in the mod team that I'm being wrongfully libeled against for things I didn't do, and that my submission, which sparked a discussion, was pulled off the frontpage even though it had a 90% upvote ratio.

[–]timothytandem 397 ポイント398 ポイント  (52子コメント)

Don't worry bud, you got the message across. Never using or recommending WTFast

[–]Usernameisntthatlong 127 ポイント128 ポイント  (35子コメント)

Same here. It's funny because I never even knew it costed money. For those unfortunate thousands that have fell into the pit -- my condolences.

[–]steijn[steijn] (EU-W) 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (27子コメント)

i thought it was a free service. what does paying do exactly?

[–]ChungisWillBeServed 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (22子コメント)

permanent use i think

[–]steijn[steijn] (EU-W) 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (19子コメント)

meh, even the very concept of it sounds like bs. any streamer supporting/advertising them should feel ashamed of just blatantly selling out.

[–]mizuromo 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"selling out" isn't a problem. People need to get paid, and sponsors is a great way to do it. The problem is when they lie to people or censor things which people need to know, and when companies take advantage of impressionable people through advertisements on popular youtube channels and such.

[–]Rebelution75 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would agree that getting sponsors isn't "selling out". Taking money for a product you dont use/havent tried tho is. That's just irresponsible money grabbing.

[–]super_goatman 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Lookin at you, Nightblue

[–]steijn[steijn] (EU-W) [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

not even, voyboy way more tbh, though those are the few streamers i used to watch. voyboy really pushes the advertising on it too much, goes on about how amazing he thinks it is and such. never heard nightblue about it except for the ad in his page.

[–]moatz97[moatz] (EU-NE) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A lot of content creator advertise it not just NB3. Stop riding the riding circlejerk.

[–]KazBeoulve [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I was using it for free until now, although I was thinking on paying for it. Everytime it expires, it lets you use it again for 15 more days with a facebook account... However, after seeing how shady it really is, I will quit using it and playing normally.

[–]PM__YOUR__BALLS 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But you can get a free membership if you leave a false positive review on Steam!!1 Oh wait it's against the ToS :(
It's kind of pathetic from the wtfscam company.

[–]LoLNumptie 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Can't believe Voyboy sold out.

[–]TheExter [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

his job is streaming, he's not in a LCS team or does anything with Riot, so he needs to get more money somewhere

it's the same reason QTpie and Nightblue mention that stupid website, they like any normal streamer and human being want some money to live

[–]silly_psycho [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

The fuck is WTFast?

[–]M0b1us0ne[M4DDR4GON] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Supposedly some kind of super VPN which promises better latency (an act which is physically impossible due to the limitations of routing technology)

[–]zedbra 186 ポイント187 ポイント  (38子コメント)

  • Dunkey's Final Boss has been removed for witch hunting
  • Sky's video of girl streamers has been removed for witch hunting
  • Trick2g Donating money to a sick child thread being deleted for not being LoL related. from /u/Imgur_Lurker

these seems in line with their reasoning behind the removal as well.

edit: added another example of bad posting behavior.

[–]HeyLuke 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Two of the best videos I've seen lately. Huh..

[–]Imgur_Lurker 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (26子コメント)

And the Trick2g Donating money to a sick child thread being deleted for not being LoL related.

[–]CSDragon[CSDragon] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

To be fair, it's good that T2G did that, but it really isn't LoL related. I'd side with the mods on that one.

[–]Reichspanda [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But Insec broke his leg, that surely has to be League related?

[–]DrJackl3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, at least it is consistent. Nothing is more frustrating than rules being enforced only 50% of the time.

[–]DerberAuner 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

might wanna send that list of people (if possible with reddit usernames) to the admins, along with proof of votemanipulation.

in the past this sort of thing has resulted in bans.

[–]Eltron316 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, I just wanted to say that WTFast was not a good investment of money from my part. I live in japan, and it only spiked my MS to the game about 180 - 200 ms above the 200ish I already had at my location.

[–]fox9iner 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It scares me how much this happens in places that can have real world, scary consequences, like /politics. Like how /u/Libertatea makes a single politics post a day that just instantly SHOOTS to front page and every single politics article he posts is from the Washington Post.

[–]warriormonkey03 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think it's important to note in that case that the sub seems heavily left leaning. He posts a lot of articles that resonate with that audience and so it gets up voted heavily. It's also always political.

Now I totally see why it's an issue as just in the real world, it's always dangerous to have one person contributing a majority of the front page material. Until an actual rule is broken though the community will likely always upvote washpost.

[–]Fucuza 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I just gained a lot of respect for Keyori.

[–]TomBulju 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean holy shit I didn't even know that thing about Adblock. Say what you want about him but the guy has some balls.

[–]billyK_[Getting His Crap] (NA) 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Same. I always took him as, well, as Dunky said it "water the videos down, make'm for kids". I didn't realize he also had the balls to stand up with all this stuff, props to him.

[–]Garb-O [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Wait did you take that line seriously? Dunkey and Keyori are friendly with each other

[–]billyK_[Getting His Crap] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh, I know lol. I just know that some people think that, and that's why Dunky put it in the video. I genuinely didn't think Keyori had the balls to stand up for anything. But honestly, props to him for helping share the info on this.

[–]TheBlackestIrelia [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They are, but the comment is pretty true. lol

[–]fran13r 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (34子コメント)

pat each other's back by cheating the reddit system by upvoting each other's videos to get exposure

Report them to the admins maybe?

[–]Gnarsies 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (24子コメント)

I already reported them to a moderator. But I think it's important people know.

[–]fran13r 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I think the admins are the ones that enforce the rules that group is probably breaking.

Reporting them to the mods will do nothing if the mods don't tell the admins, right?

[–]homm88 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Indeed, subreddit mods can't do anything about vote abuse.

This is something that is to be reported directly to Reddit admins.

[–]billyK_[Getting His Crap] (NA) 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If it breaks Reddiquette, it should be reported to the admins over mods, regardless of what the situation is

[–]fran13r [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Is not the reddiquette, is the reddit rules.

The reddiquette are not the rules, reddiquette is just a guideline that you can break if you so desire and there is no one that can ban you for not following it.

For example you can now downvote me if you simply don't like me and nothing will happen to you.

[–]El_Barno[bignig1997] (OCE) 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It always confused me how Kianymundis videos manage to get front page, but now I understand.

[–]I_RARELY_RAPE_PEOPLE [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Admins control things like vote abuse.

Banding together to vote brigade eachother's videos to get popular is what get's people banned immediately.

Remember people like Unidan? All he did was use a few alt accounts to vote up his own comments in an argument, and a few times before that to get his stuff bumped up right away.

That got him banned and shamed even.

[–]SamWhite [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you go to /r/reddit.com and message the moderators there, you're directly messaging the admins of reddit, which in cases of vote manipulation can result in being shadowbanned from the site.

[–]NoL_Chefo 85 ポイント86 ポイント  (27子コメント)

You've my respect for standing up to the terrible moderation happening in this subreddit. I wouldn't bother looking for context in their 'witch-hunt' policies; as you've said, the mods here are grossly incompetent when it comes to applying their rules. I'd take you months back for examples, but you're in luck because right now there's a front-page thread from a sponsor that isn't removed. The shills pay so the critics can be silenced.

All I can say is keep standing up for your beliefs, especially when you've been wrongfully accused. Thumbs up again for not taking the money of sleazeballs selling broken software on Steam.

[–]LowBatteryDamnIt[Braken] (NA) 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The shills pay so the critics can be silenced.

It's ignorant as fuck to argue about something you don't have all the facts about. If the Reddit admins found out they were getting paid, all of them would be banned (yes Reddit admins can read your modmail).

[–]WallaceReborn 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Why in the world would they have that exchange on this site?

[–]WombatDominator 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Under that line of thinking Gambit gaming shouldn't be allowed to post their videos due to sponsoring an LCS team. That's an atrocious argument for the situation.

[–]pomponazzi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Why should the logitech post be removed. Please show me what rule it is breaking.

[–]Raiyni 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (48子コメント)

The problem with your statement is you don't have the facts as to why it is a scam nor do you have the technical knowledge of why it doesn't work for a majority of users. Your video was comprised mostly of hateful remarks and ZERO evidence.

[–]LowBatteryDamnIt[Braken] (NA) 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (26子コメント)

I honestly think WTFast is a scam, but I also think your comment sums up all of his videos. In addition the mods have a right to remove whatever content they feel they should and they will never make money one way or the other so people really need to get that straight

[–]Raiyni 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (17子コメント)

No doubt WTFast is -mostly- a scam but no one is explaining why it is a scam because they have no idea how the fuck the software even works. The argument is just a circle of if it lowers ping or not by how many hops your connection takes. If only it was that simple. It is a scam because of its false advertisement and that it preys on idiots whom don't know what a VPN actually is--not because it doesn't lower your ping if you pay for it.

[–]Asinine2412(EU-W) 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (13子コメント)

IIRC they have a free trial you can use for a month or so before actually spending any money. The software worked fine for me when I was playing on NA Aion servers from EU. Whether it works for League is a different story but seeing as you can get a free trial,

I don't see how people are getting scammed. Are people too stupid/impressionable that they pay for the software without using the free trial?

I agree it's most likely false advertisement when it comes to League, but to boycott the entire software even though it might work on other games is a little silly to me. Just remove the adverts from League content providers and problem solved?

[–]Raiyni 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm going to even take a guess that there aren't actually that many users that are being deceived.

[–]1H4v3Numb3r51nMyN4m3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've spoke about this before. It's not a scam at all. It's actually quite a legitimate thing that many use for various things - gaming included.

It's just being advertised as a download ram kinda deal when it's just a VPN that so many other companies offer.

All a VPN does is make a tunnel if you will from your computer to their servers and then to your destination therefore bypassing your ISP's path (route or routing).

This is a very simple example, but let's say you live in Spain and want to connect to an East Coast server.

Your ISP is gonna go from your modem, to their switch, into their backbone, into the peering company and then to a point in the US say Miami and from there to the server you're connecting.

With a VPN enabled, you'll go from your modem, to the isp's switch into the backbone, into the vpn which will then carry out the rest of the connection until it's final destination using their own defined routing. This doesn't necessarily mean it's different or any faster than your ISP's routing.

For obvious reasons if your ISP isn't total crap or has problems, all that is going to happen is you're adding the extra VPN hop to a pathway already pre-established further increasing the ping by w/e amount that hop is.

My ISP pings 90~120ms to the East Coast from Europe. A few weeks ago, they had an issue with a Miami based datacenter and so my ping went to 200ms. I complained, they said it'd take a week to fix and I bought a VPN. End result, my ping to the east coast was 110~140ms going through London.

It was lower than the current ISP's faulty routing because I bypass the Miami issue but higher than the base (under normal circumstances) ISP routing.

[–]pomponazzi 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Finally some people with common sense in this thread.

[–]rainarie 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Seriously, I was starting to wonder if I had gone crazy and had dreamed up the last part of the video...

[–]pomponazzi 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not sure where I stand on WTFast but it looks very shady but complaining about it talking about all your evidence then providing none? Everyone getting mad at the mods but I think they got this one right.

[–]rainarie [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I doubt there are many people that are actually standing by WTFast. People forget there are more than 2 sides of this craziness. I just can't believe people are letting the latter half of the video slide. I agree with you, I think the mods were right in removing it. If he had presented the content in a more professional manner, then he probably would have been fine.

[–]HeavenSk8 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

From personal use and hopefully I don't sink into a pit of negative karma because of this statement: It's not a scam, or at least it wasn't for me.. Their main demography is people located far away from the servers of the game you're connecting on. I'm from Venezuela, and when I used it I got the following changes:

WoW: 140ms -> 105ms

LoL. 130 -> 90ms.

It really helped a lot when I was lagging or had ISP throttling my connection, it was actually the only way I could play.

So yeah, it might not work for everyone, but it worked for me. I've been using these tunneling softwares like BattlePing, LowerPing, WTFast and others and they do work most of the time at least.

[–]ClarificationBot 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (28子コメント)

I'm not a mod. I don't use WTFast, I don't even know exactly what it does, but with that being said...

Here is the rule about witch-hunting

"A witch-hunt is a thread or comment that damages or threatens to damage a specific person or entity's reputation or resources without solid evidence. These often take the form of personal threats or attacks and calls to action (“burn him;” “get that guy banned;” “stop watching that dude’s stream”, “boycott this tournament” etc.)."

I watched your video, you didn't call for action, but calling the "product a piece of sh-", "garbage", "fucking garbage", saying there's a "pile of evidence" (even if later you changed it to testimonal) that it doesn't do anything without giving ANY evidence pretty much exactly fits the definition of "threatening to damage an entity's reputation without solid evidence." Particularly because a quick google search does seem to suggest that it works perfectly fine for at least some people.

If you had kept the video solely to bashing them on the basis of their fuck up with Steam and trying to bribe people for positive reviews, you would have been on perfectly solid ground. It was the fact that you went too far that got your post (imo justifiably) removed as a witch-hunt.

[–]PerishwithHonor 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

row row fight the powa

[–]trevcat9 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except using evidence as a word ISN'T WRONG. As a matter of a fact, a huge part of the American legal system depends upon anecdotal evidence, which is exactly what you used in the video. Anecdotal evidence, just to clarify, is when you use the claims of others as part of your evidence base. Anecdotal evidence is a massive part of most legal cases in the U.S., and it is called "Eyewitness Testimony." It is accepted as anecdotal evidence, and although it may not have as high a status as other pieces of evidence, it is still very important. Many cases in the U.S. legal system are based heavily on or solely on anecdotal evidence, since it is the most easily available form of evidence.

In the case of this product that you're arguing against, there are a few ways you can discuss why it's a problem. Using the anecdotal evidence provided by users is a great way to show that the product in question may not work properly. For example, when you want to buy something on Amazon, you often read the reviews of other users to see if the product is acceptable or not. This is your process of gathering evidence. You should do the same when discussing a product in a video, which you did. If you had the expertise or time to conduct research, you could also explain WHY the product does not work very well, however this is not really expected. This is a 4 minute YouTube video, not an hour-long piece of investigative journalism, and that's fine. At the end of the day, our standards for evidence on a reddit post should not be higher than the standards of evidence in the U.S. legal system. The standards shown by the U.S. legal system should be sufficient, since the penalty for messing up there is potentially putting someone in jail, while our penalty for messing up is just pissing a lot of people off.

[–]Cienzince [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

at least now I know that streamers who promotes this product from this shady company probably have no standards and only see their viewers as cash cows. Good job buddy, keep up your videos!

[–]Duffman8586 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just so you know, there was nothing wrong with using the word evidence. By definition testimony is a form of evidence. These morons are just grasping at straws to justify their stupidity after the fact.

[–]Tortysc 237 ポイント238 ポイント  (171子コメント)

Wonder how mods will mod this thread. Clear conflict of interest, so if they decide to delete it, we will know for sure.

[–]ScrambledScribbles[CLG1] (EU-W) 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Mods are always inconsistent, they remove happy birthday posts for pro players and ice bucket challenges of people like faker, but when dyrus uploads a picture of salt on his Facebook post they don't remove it.

[–]KoreanTerran 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Whoa, can you link me that?

Because I definitely remember removing a picture of the salt posted by Dyrus

[–]jckprry [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think the larger point to take away is that there's definitely a popular opinion around here that the mods are very wishy-washy with what they choose to keep / remove. I am in the camp that agrees.

[–]ScrambledScribbles[CLG1] (EU-W) [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

[–]IamAcovertOps [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Awww shit man a 10 comment 13 upvote thread hasn't been deleted, dude these moderators really need to get a grip!

[–]KoreanTerran [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, man that's definitely removed.

Only got 14 upvotes before I got to it.

[–]Saad888 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That post has less than 15 upvotes, it's unlikely that post actually made it anywhere so no one saw it. It's likely the one KoreanTerran deleted was a separate link which actually became popular. It's easy to miss a thread if it just disappears under the masses of new threads, and no harm done if it doesn't make it anywhere.

[–]L1o1L [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And it clearly made it to the front page...

You can't possibly expect the mod to remove EVERY SINGLE shitty post in this huge subreddit. If the Dyrus post made it to like 100+ upvotes or something and still not removed, then sure you can make it the case. If the post ever made it to the front page, I highly doubt the post would stay there very long before mod takes it down.

[–]Kengy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Can easily argue it's not directly related to League. Unfortunately, I think it's a topic that SHOULD be looked at, but at it's core, it has nothing to do with the game of League. Especially disappointed in Voyboy in all this. He should try to find sponsors that aren't scummy instead of doing stuff like this.

[–]Tortysc 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's related to this subreddit directly though.

[–]drkumlaunchr69 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can easily argue it's not directly related to League.

I understand the intentions of this rule but I think a serious discussion should be had about how lenient it should be. Too many worthwhile discussions have been prematurely haulted because of this rule.

[–]KoreanTerran[M] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (133子コメント)

I already approved it, ignored the report so it's going to stay as well.

From what I could tell, there were absolutely no WTFast affiliates influencing us to remove the submission. It was removed when I got home and Merich, the other mod mentioned in the article didn't participate in the vote to remove the post when it was removed. I imagine Merich just gave a response because we kept Gnarsies waiting a bit so that we could discuss what to do.

Gnarsies and I also had a very long back to back about the video. We even talked on League late last night to talk more about it.

[–]pokalover(EU-W) 224 ポイント225 ポイント  (86子コメント)

From what I could tell, there were absolutely no WTFast affiliates influencing us to remove the submission

Oh Really...

[–]KoreanTerran 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (80子コメント)

We got a lot of modmail from people chiming in with their own opinions. Anyone is allowed to report a post or give their opinions about it.

Voyboy's opinion didn't have an effect on what we decided to do with the post. I was just giving him a reply as to not leave him in the dark. One member of the mod team that's actually close with Voyboy refrained from voting because they felt as though they had personal feelings involved.

I think it's a bit of a reach to say that Voyboy's modmail is what made us want to remove the post.

[–]Squirrelschaser 149 ポイント150 ポイント  (29子コメント)

And I believe it's also a reach to say "there were absolutely no WTFast affiliates influencing us to remove the submission."

[–]Noobity 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (15子コメント)

If those affiliates didn't have any impact on the removal of the post then the statement is correct. The president of the united states can suggest that I don't do something, but if I wasn't going to do it anyway then no American Citizens influenced me in any way. Attempted to, sure, but ultimately did not sway me one way or another.

[–]dirtydela [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

imo it's never a good idea to speak in absolutes

[–]Kengy 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (19子コメント)

there were absolutely no WTFast affiliates influencing us to remove the submission

What do you call Voy and you having a discussion about removing it then?

[–]chaser676 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think it was poor wording on his part. He should have said "our decision was not influenced by WTFast affiliates", not "there were no WTFast affiliates influencing us". If they were going to remove the post regardless of Voy contacting them or not, both remain true. Poor wording though.

[–]ploki122 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Actually, I think the better wording would be "WTFast affiliates aren't influencing us in any different fashions than other redditors". Basically, Voyboy and me reading the same message to the Mods would technically lead to the same results.

From my experience, I've also had very reasonable answers to all my questions/comments to the mods and in a fairly fast fashion.

[–]deryni21 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Can I ask for a detailed outline of a few things from you, as you are by a pretty wide margin the most visible moderator on the subreddit.

  • Is it okay to criticize organizations, products or structures related to League on the subreddit?
    • If so when is it okay to do so? How much "evidence" is required and furthermore what type of evidence is required? Is there a system of checks that you employ or does the mod staff just feel it out?
    • If it is not okay to carry out critiques on this subreddit, why not? What is the reasoning behind that? As the hub of information for the community of League of Legends shouldn't this be the ideal ground for a large scale discussion of all products and organizations surrounding the game?
  • Is the difference between a critique and a witch hunt in a lot of ways dependent on what the mod team reads in the tone of an article? If so how can you come to a fair consensus about this.
  • If something is untrue, do you trust the community to be able to call that out, filter the content either in comments or in votes, or do you think it is the mod staff's job to authorize something in terms of its truth or not. If so, what is your methodology for determining truth, and your standard for evidence in that environment.
  • In a hypothetical situation where the mod team had a much more conservative approach to the witch hunting rule, how do you think the subreddit would look? What does removing posts like the one in question here take away from the subreddit or its constituency?

Thanks for your time, and your work. Look forward to the response.

[–]KoreanTerran 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (4子コメント)

It is okay to criticize organiziations, products, or structures related to League on the subreddit.

You can do it whenever you have evidence of the injustice or whatever thing you see happening occurs. We don't specifically have a good checks/balances systems for the evidence that's needed so that's been a more case-by-case basis. You can carry out critiques, it's just that how you're presenting it really affects the decisions that get made.

For Gnarsies video, it was honestly so close to being approved, but the end went a bit further than it needed to. You can read about it in my back to back with him where I go over it in detail.

The tone matters because if it's a sarcastic style that's believable, like Gnarsies, then what happens if people take him seriously when he doesn't mean to be? Especially for the parts he doesn't have "evidence" for. It's generally safer to stick with a more civil tone which is why I wrote that.

I rely on the community to able to call it out, but it isn't a 100% dependence. I like letting the discussion develop and because there have been times where I had to go back on my original decisions. Either I had to re-approve a post I removed or I removed a post that I originally had removed. The best example of this would be the times that Rohammers was accused of toxic play in the EUW server.

It turned out to not actually be Rohammers, so I apologized to Rohammers and asked if he wanted me to remove his post. He said he'd like to keep it up so that he could spread the word of his own defense.


I think it'd be bad if we were TOO conservative with removing these kinds of posts. I think it'd seem like we were too pro-big company and not trying to support actual members of the community.

In reality though we try to protect everyone and we take things on a case-by-case basis.

[–]HeavenLegacy(NA) 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like Voyboy's wording of "Is the service a 'COMPLETE' scam? NO." 90% Scam, 10% 'NO' :P?

[–]AuDIOGASMS[To The Moon] (NA) 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Man, Richard must really hate this subreddit. lol

[–]PillageTruth [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

LOL they removed gnarsies post and then it was restored.. 10/10'

Edit: Apparently it was because the skype pics weren't censored. I had just finished microwaving my popcorn...

[–]AtiMan(EU-W) [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Either a mistake or some mods working on their own, deleting shit.

[–]CaoticMoments [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

TIL People can't try and rectify their mistakes.

[–]sarahbottsgrill4lyfe[M] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

;_; just trying to make sure people don't get doxxed.

[–]Edgegasm [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Just as a heads up in that case, there's still a name leak on the second image.

[–]Delko999 188 ポイント189 ポイント  (28子コメント)

Voyboy just lost my respect,good job!

[–]billyK_[Getting His Crap] (NA) 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (11子コメント)

What respect?

[–]fomorian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"Voyboy did something we don't agree with, now we're going to pretend we always hated him!" In other news, we are and have always been at war with Eastasia.

[–]LPriest 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There had to be some kinda asshole behind that sympathic face

[–]Cantabiley 250 ポイント251 ポイント  (42子コメント)

Screw Voyboy, I'm not watching his stream anymore. What a fucking sellout, advocating for a program which is basically a scam!

And fuck the mods and their star struck decision making.

[–]SavePoonerman 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So embarrassing for Voyboy, oof

[–]JediwilliW 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Careful now, You dont wanna start a witch hunt!

[–]Tumblrinavictim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

IM TRIGGERING RIGHT NOW REPORT REPORT WITCH HUNT TRIGGERS

[–]Yeahdudex 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah.. PR nightmare for him.

[–]Martintoday [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

His Stream was overrated and shit anyways IMO

[–]Tumblrinavictim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah holy shit even messaging the mods about it to desperately support it so he doesn't lose a sponsor. What a fucking sellout!

[–]Saad888 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

All this talk about a software that is "obviously a scam", and yet there is still 0 evidence proving that statement.

[–]tubadammit69 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, everyone's circlejerking about how terrible WTFast is...it's not a scam, it just doesn't do what everyone assumes it does.

If you've got a 90 ms connection because you're east coast, using WTFast isn't going to magically drop you to 20ms... If you've got a 300ms connection because your ISP doesn't know how to route traffic properly, it's possible that WTFast could drop it down to 200ms or 150ms.

There aren't many companies that benefit from sponsoring LoL streamers / pro's, I feel like there's nothing wrong with it at all.

[–]Sturmx 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yep I agree

[–]Hancok [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I agree completely. I have been a fan of Voyboy since I started playing League 3 years ago, he's the reason I stuck with and supported Team Curse and now Team Liquid despite the team becoming complete shit. But watching his stream lately I have noticed he is becoming a different person, he's no longer the Voyboy I admired. He really is a sellout now. I don't like using that word, but when you support such a shitty program like WTFast and allow them to sponsor you, you're a fucking sellout. Fuck Voyboy.

[–]Obachu [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

what did voyboy do/say?

[–]eScapLaY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He is sponsored by WTFast and supports them on his stream. He also messaged the mods about removing the video about the WTFast scam.

[–]Ansibled 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (56子コメント)

[–]Sepik121[M] 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (32子コメント)

I was the one that took that down, i'll explain what happened.

That user has been posting that article and then promptly deleting then and kept on repeatedly submitting. It may be the only one that was there, but they have been reposting their same videos/articles repeatedly.

[–]ChronicProductivity 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now I'm really curious about the video. Anybody got a link or know who uploaded it?

[–]xNicolex 121 ポイント122 ポイント  (18子コメント)

I think instead of this sub-reddit adding more mods and making posts about that.

How about removing some of the bad ones? Mentioning no names of course, wouldn't want to start a witch-hunt or anything.

[–]Ansibled 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm sure they want to remove the ones who leaked screenshots.

[–]xNicolex 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That silent hero.

[–]whoopashigitt[Korean Mid] (NA) 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At least in the first example I imagine it was Gnarsies. Not sure about the Voyboy message though.

[–]the_jimin 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Honestly, videos like this benefit /r/leagueoflegends more than the countless "Rito pls" threads we keep seeing

[–]T_Stebbins 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, inane little suggestions that add almost nothing to the game are far more important that a thought-provoking video discussing the probelms with a shady product "used" by several streamers and content creators. /S

[–]getrektEUlol 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (0子コメント)

hey so... fuck you to voyboy right?

[–]Volacrity 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Voyboy, what the fuck...

[–]hideouszippleback 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Seems to me that when something is BS, it (usually) gets called out pretty quickly by the Reddit detectives. There have been a number of threads over the past few months that made claims, rocketed to page one, only to then be called out as crap by someone. It seems like a self-correcting problem. If something is openly slanderous, then there might be a case for a takedown. But anything other than that should live or die by the system IMO.

Mods are just trying to do their best, I have no doubt, but this is taking editorial license too far. To do a 180 flip flop the minute a celebrity says something really shakes my faith in this subreddit, however well-intentioned the mods are. If Voyboy had made that same comment in the video thread (maybe he did, I dunno) it would likely have made it to the top and people could have engaged in discussion. Now it just looks like censorship and there are accusations of corruption and collusion flying around.

Gotta take a lighter hand with this stuff, mods. Just my 2 cents.

[–]travman064 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like that doesn't work either though. If something is false or against subreddit rules, we shouldn't be relying on the community to discuss why that is the case instead of removing the content, especially when there are a large number of people who will view the content but not the comments.

Tbh im more on voyboy's side on this issue. The video pointed out a lot of dirty laundry with wtfast, but it also heavily implied that wtfast doesn't work without showing reasonable evidence, in my opinion. I think it's fine to remove misleading videos. If I don't like someone and I post a video with misinformation about them and people vote my video to the top of the LoL subreddit, the target of my video is likely to be affected in a negative way unfairly, and I don't have an issue with reddit mods removing that sort of content.

[–]Garb-O [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I would say start a new League reddit but, i dunno what it would be called

[–]Protosega[Trixie] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

/r/leagueofblackjackandhookers

[–]Garb-O [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

/r/LeagueofLegendsIILeagueHarder

[–]Smalley37 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (9子コメント)

How long until the mods make the "There are a lot of mods and we didn't communicate enough and we accidentally took it down" excuse?

[–]DerberAuner 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (10子コメント)

sooo, just out of curiosity, moderators, why does this not fall under witchhunting?

or are you just making an exception cause of the backlash you would get if you took this post down?

[–]AuDIOGASMS[To The Moon] (NA) 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What a lose-lose situation.

[–]Treyantula [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The first one wasn't even witch hunting. They caught gnarsies on a technicality while he was exposing unethical business practices.

They are 100% scared of the backlash, because they've been caught in their bullshit

[–]minos157 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Video showcasing a company that scams it's base and has shady practices, gets 90% upvoted ---- removed by mods due to shady back room dealings.

Blatant advertisement by Logitech, 64% upvoted ----- NO PROBLEM.

I think it's time for some changes in the mod booth boys. Not naming names though, don't want to witch hunt.

[–]ifuckedmeteos 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I wouldn't say scams its base. Asking for positive reviews is obviously not okay and steam resolved that but wtfast DID work for me during the east coast server issues.

Basically what happened was there was a bad hop when going from east coast to Riot servers. There was nothing I could do about my 180 ping and massive packet loss. I used wtfast free for a month and basically you pick a server so you can go around that bad hop (which I found through trial and error). This fixed my ping issues. However, ANY vpn that avoids the bad hop would do the same thing.

With Riot now optimizing their connection to all sorts of ISPs, there's probably very few people who will see an improvement with wtfast in NA and so don't need it.

[–]xxficusxx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Inb4 Dailydot starts massive witch-hunt for mods :^ )

[–]Dmienduerst 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sigh I guess I feel like the only one who can see where the mods are coming from. Its really really hard to know where to draw the line on these borderline cases. There will never be consistency but there is a need for a line to be drawn. The mods are in a lose lose situation. They fuck up we slaughter them for it they do a good job we never see it. They are the Offensive line of reddit. I really don't know exactly what Lewis is after in this case as this one seems like the mods doing a good job of drawing a line. They explain why the line is where it is for the guy. As for Voyboy the guy makes a good point one which I didn't need Voyboy to point out. I don't see how what Voyboy posted leads to accusations of influence. What popular people can't say their opinion now?

Not to say the Mods are flawless but seriously if the rules are in place follow the rules. If you break the rules and the mods hit you for it thats on you. If you don't agree with the rule then lets have that conversation and try to see if we can get the rules changed. If you love to sit on the grey area YOUR STUFF IS GOING TO GET HIT. I have yet to see a conclusive case of Mods overstepping beyond the rules allows them. I would argue the rules give to much power. Fine lets change that then and stop attacking the judges because that will get us nowhere.

[–]Heskatar [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I really don't know exactly what Lewis is after in this case as this one seems like the mods doing a good job of drawing a line.

To set up a narrative of shill mods being paid by Rito and big companies so that if Lewis ever steps out of the line again and gets banned he'll be able to set up the biggest shitstorm in this sub seen.

[–]Dmienduerst [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think thats giving Lewis to much credit. I just think he honestly thinks the Mods are power corrupt and finds that sick. Just short sighted not malicious.

[–]caiada 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why's it always a global conspiracy, not humans making human decisions on subjective issues?

[–]Nonsensei 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (21子コメント)

It's a goddamn scam people. Your ping only appears to be lower because the VPN is located closer to Riot's servers. It exploits how ping is calculated by your computer while not actually providing better performance.

You cannot change your real ping. Think about it. If you are sending a ping 10,000 km (x2 round trip), the absolute lowest your ping can be is 67 based on the speed of light. Factor in things like bandwidth hogging and hardware switching and your ping is going to be much higher than that in an average case scenario. Routing your traffic through a VPN will do jack to your data transfer rates. It won't increase your bandwidth, it won't reduce the hardware switching, and it sure as hell won't change the speed of light.

What bothers me most about WTFast and all their sponsored affiliates is that they're basically preying upon the technologically incompetent. It's basically snake oil.

[–]flyingepeto [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

HONEST QUESTION: wasn't the point of WTfast to reduce the amount of things your router has to communicate with before it reaches riot servers? I get that you can't surpass a certain amount based on distance but why is it impossible to lower? If you go from 95 to 80 why ins't that helping?

[–]portugapt [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I Had 100ms where I couldn't play and 150ms where I could. It can show a number, but is it the real one? /u/Nonseisei said the lowest ms in theory. Do the math and test with(out) WTFast and post the results. The amount of routers is can be or cannot be the same, 1 more or 2 more wont change the ping from 60ms to 90ms, max I'd say to 65ms. And Internet is built (the neutral internet) for the data to pass trough the less routers(or whatever they are) possible and reach his target the fastest possible, meaning your ping wont be too far from the theoretical one. Things from local router(your home), ISP, international route and target location issues can happen, like your router not properly working, your ISP is overloaded, international routes can also be overloaded or with route issues like router issues and the target location the same thing. Normally target location (Riot server location) has issues with overload, but that's it. This or WTFast makes internet connections faster than light, warp speed maybe?

[–]Dani-kun [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You have a valid opinion, and I think you're pretty much right. But what about bad routes? When EUW switched to Amsterdam from Frankfurt, my ping increased from 25 to like 70-80ies now, and with WTFast my ping gets around ~33 which is pretty much all others in the neighborhood get with other isp's. It even feels more responsive, so I'm interested in your opinion, because it seems you are well aware how it works.

[–]tempname-3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He's not. It helps for some people, it doesn't for others. A VPN can reduce actual ping because of your badly routed traffic.

[–]phoenixrawr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

A VPN could absolutely reduce your real ping depending on how your ISP routes your traffic. The internet does not work on straight line distances, your traffic typically gets passed through several hops on the way to its destination. If your traffic gets routed inefficiently by default (which actually happens pretty frequently) and the VPN gives you a more efficient route to the server then your ping will go down when you use the VPN.

[–]Dragull [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Imagine your server is on city A and you live on City C.

There is not straight line cables from City A to C, so the cables pass through City B to give you the most optimal Ping.

However, it is a time of the day that a lot of people are using the "B" rote so theirs servers are full, you what your IP does is re-route you from the the A > B> C line to an alternative A > D > E > C line, but that is MUCH LONGER. It takes more time to do that route than the standard A > B > C.

What WTFast does is essentially force your connection to go to the A > B > C route, because the company have their OWN server on the B route.

[–]i_pk_pjers_i [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You cannot change your real ping.

You absolutely can. You can use a VPN for using virtual routes (which does, in fact, change your ping, either for the better or for worse), or you can get your ISP to change your routes for you.

Take a look here, I got my ISP TekSavvy to change my routes for me which resulted in much lower ping and packet loss:

www.dslreports.com/forum/r29818088-DSL-High-Ping-on-League-of-Legends

Routing your traffic through a VPN will do jack to your data transfer rates.

Mostly correct, but we aren't talking about bandwidth. We are talking about latency, which with less hops and less congestion on each route, you can potentially get lower latency. However, if a certain hop is having huge amounts of packet loss and the protocol being used is TCP, you better believe that you can experience lower or higher amounts of bandwdith/"download speed" based on TCP's rate control.

You shouldn't talk about things when you don't know what you are talking about.

It's definitely not snake oil, but it doesn't work for everyone.

I don't understand why people always give their opinion about computer related things when they don't know what they are talking about. That's like going to a doctor, getting nuclear imaging done that shows a large mass that is likely cancerous, getting a biopsy that confirms that the mass is cancerous, then telling the doctor that he is wrong and that you don't have cancer.

[–]Shadostruct [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why the hell is this so far up? It's wrong. So very wrong.

Ping is just the time it takes for packets to travel to and from the servers they're communicating with. Things that affect this travel time are: amount of hops, congestion, physical distance, and priorities of certain packets.

WTFast is just a VPN. That's all it fucking is. The way it reduces ping is by changing the routing your packets go through to less congested routes with fewer hops.

So if you have 60 ms ping and you right click the ground in front of you it will take 60 ms for the action to register. 100 ping is deemed fairly bad because it's .1 of a second, a noticeable amount of time.

Think about it. If you are sending a ping 10,000 km (x2 round trip), the absolute lowest your ping can be is 67 based on the speed of light.

Ok.

Factor in things like bandwidth hogging and hardware switching and your ping is going to be much higher than that in an average case scenario.

And this is what a VPN fixes. Like... really? You mention the speed of light implying that WTFast tells you it goes faster than it, when that's not what happens at all.

If it was a straight line perfect scenario the ping would be 67 ms. Now add on the factors that increase ping just from infrastructure and you're probably closer to ~100 ms. A VPN reduces your ping not by claiming it goes faster than the speed of light, it reduces it by giving you better routing through the infrastructure of the net, so that ~100ms might go down to ~80 ms.

The reason WTFast is used by so many Australians is because they live so far away the amount of hops their packets take is astronomical on top of the geographic issue of distance. So people overseas connecting to American servers generally see a better performance out of a VPN than someone on the continental US.

You can't have the game display your ping as 60ms and say that number is a lie. That's not how it works. At all.

[–]InsanitysMuse [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This isn't entirely true. While WTFast is almost certainly going to be a waste or hinder 95% of people in the US, rerouting CAN decrease latency between a host and a client. You CAN change your real ping in very specific circumstances. Source: network engineering and fucking with VPN way more than I need to.

Edit: I do condemn WTFast for their sales tactics though. Considering the rather lax network guarding most streamers seem to employ, I'm guessing most know no better than an average person how this works. So the streamer takes the word of the company giving them money, and viewers take the word of the streamer.

[–]CLG_Alchemist [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Another instance in which Korean Terran seems to be the center of Reddit controversy. Why hasn't this mod been removed yet?

[–]Ajido[Twitter xAjido] (NA) 102 ポイント103 ポイント  (115子コメント)

The facts laid out in the video were solid, even if some of the language used was less than flattering.

No, they weren't. The facts against the unethical business practices were solid and 100% true, no one is disputing that. But he provides no facts when he attacks the software, all he does is call it garbage (Literally) multiple times and calls it snake oil saying it doesn't do anything.

Those aren't facts, the guy used the first three-quarters of his video to build up the viewer's hate for the company, and once he had them hooked he switched to a baseless attack on the program itself.

What he did was dishonest and misleading, but because of how human nature works, the hatred for the company outweighs anything wrong the video creator may have done, so the masses will side with him, and anyone trying to defend the program (Not the company), gets attacked by commenters.

The moderators initially cited a "call to action" in the video as the reason for its removal.

Regardless of what they may have said, there was a call to action. The video creator specifically calls on Youtubers and streamers to boycott WTFast's "garbage" product. How is that not a call to action?

"a lot of YouTubers are advertising it boots your connection between you and Riot which is BS"

So one person in a Skype chat making a claim means it's true? I've paid for this program for five months now and can hardly play League on the east coast without it, it does work, people just have no clue how to properly use a VPN and make these bogus claims. In the deleted thread, one of the most upvoted comments was something along the lines of "i used this program for 5 minutes and knew it was unstable". But because of all the hate for the company, it gets upvotes from people who've never used it, no idea how it works, etc.

Edit: Thanks for the gold, WTFast Its a joke. I think..

[–]drswnemo [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Seriously. People here jump to conclusions far too quickly. There's no thinking, no measured responses. Just an endless circlejerk back and forth.

[–]Ajido[Twitter xAjido] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The video creator is getting all this support for two main reasons. People love to hate on companies that do anything wrong, it's basically the national pastime of the internet. And /r/lol users LOVE when they get a chance to shit all over the moderator team whether deserved or not.

He could basically walk into a room full of these people supporting him at the moment, a fired up crowd, and getting them to do whatever he wants.

[–]Extractum11 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yep, the article is ridiculous. I see very little shady stuff in the screenshots, just actual discussion. And there's absolutely nothing that suggests the mods removed it just because Voyboy asked them to, it just so happens that the mods agreed with him. Is that a crime now?

Also, fucking lol at Richard Lewis saying "chat logs from the moderator’s Skype group show that they were all comfortable with the submission"...and his proof entirely consisting of messages from TWO moderators over the span of THREE minutes. That's really shitty of him to do, and really shitty journalism. The entire article is pretty biased, as if he came into the situation with his mind already made up and twisted the 'evidence' to support that.

[–]potatokaiser 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Yeah, I completely agree with you. Gnarsies was definitely accurate on the unethical business practices, but the software has definitely improved my connection on the east coast.

[–]HeavenSk8 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

According to most of this subreddit, it's just our imagination that our latency decreased.

I play from Venezuela and the following happens when I activate WTFast (or LowerPing, BattlePing and other tunneling brands.)

League of Legends: 130ms -> 89ms (Sometimes from 90 to 70ms)

World of Warcrack: 130ms -> 105ms.

IT'S NOT A SCAM

Might not work for everyone and that's probably why it does have it's negative reviews, but for the people who actually benefit from this program is a huge deal. Especially since it's "free" and we're from the third world where dollars aren't quite cheap to get.

[–]i_pk_pjers_i [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

According to me (someone who actually knows a thing or two about networking), it works for some people and it doesn't for others. Here's why: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/30iymr/wtfast_affiliate_influenced_reddit_mods_in/cpsyb6q

[–]Saad888 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People need to tone down and realize there are multiple sides to this. The fact remains, as you said, he proved nothing in his video.

[–]hamoorftw 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

THANK YOU! I don't understand this sudden circlejerk from people who never tried the software in the first place. I currently live outside of Europe and the ping is very horrible, as but with wtfast it goes down from 250-300 to 150ish. Call a shill or whatever the fuck you like, it works for me and I am ready to post a video of my lol ping with and without wtfast to prove it.

[–]Klaent 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Calling everybody you disagree with a shill is the new thing on reddit. It's gonna get annoying as fuck.

[–]Ajido[Twitter xAjido] (NA) 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

People don't understand why I bother defending it. They think I'm defending the company, when I'm not. I just really hate hypocrisy and bullshit deserves to be called out. The video creator is full of it and is just as dishonest as the WTFast company.

[–]hyrulepirate [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Welcome to Reddit's mob mentality where all content-creators are immaculate idols of wisdom, truth, and justice and all corporations and business-entities (mods included) are evil.

[–]TheRealRasu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's like SpectateFaker all over again. "boohoo muh nazi mods deleting rightful content", "Richard knows so much more about modding a sub than the mods do"...it's getting tiring tbh. Anything that is against the mods is getting upvoted, and it doesn't help that Gnarsies is trying to be edgy to appeal to the rebellious redditors...

[–]brightinly 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

"critical video" Only the first half was critical about it, the rest was just mindless bashing to a product he never even proved to have used.

[–]wirkcl 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm extremely disappointment in Voyboy, he now only cares about the money, first he leaves competitive gaming for easy stream money and now he promotes some shitty botnet/scam to make some extra dollars.

[–]Suiiii 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait, how did dailydot get a screenshot from Voyboy's message to the mods? Are the mods now leaking screenshots to the press who are criticising them? Also quite concerning that private messages are not really private.

[–]sureyouken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Such is the state of privacy nowadays. There is no such thing as a private skype message. They're all stored somewhere.

[–]BjergCop 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is league subreddit slowly turning into an Anarchy?

[–]bobosletje [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I haven't been keeping track of the situation and what WTFast is charging for. Can someone give me a quick update?

[–]S7EFEN[s7efen] (NA) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What exactly is the issue?

WTFast works for people who have ISPs who are doing something wrong with League of Legends traffic.

If you have bad ping because you are far from the server no program is going to change that.

If you have bad ping because your league of legends traffic is being sent to the riot servers in a really inefficient way, or your ISP is throttling LoL traffic? WTFast is great.

If you are using anything you find on the internet you should do some fuking research beforehand.

[–]trickingmyfriends [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well I was gona try WTFast, but now Ima just hope they go broke asap. Thanks for changing my feelings reddit!

[–]Jasonium [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't see what the big deal is. Sure they did some shady things but the product works (it helps me connect to TW server at 160 ping from Cali) and it's free. Who are they scamming?

[–]Going_incognito [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Why should we care? Just curious.

For me personally, I have never seen any advertisements for it before all this drama, but I wouldn't use this software anyway.

If anything, all this has done is give publicity to WTFast.

[–]Lyriq [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Man I can't wait for the ESEX article

[–]ThighMaster250 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Has there ever been a VPN service like this that actually delivers on what it promises? BattlePing and SmoothPing come to mind and the majority takeaway from all three of these has seemed to be that if it is doing something its not noticeable.

I feel like if someone actually had a service that worked they would be showing that data all over their site. Like here is verifiable proof of concept. Go take a look at WTFast's site and there is practically nothing. They rely on testimonials and an animated youtube video claiming it reduces ping by 30-60% as evidence of their product's effectiveness. So if somebody hasn't put up evidence their product works then why do you need hard evidence to tear it down? The burden is on the seller, not the consumer to suss out whether or not a product does the thing it's creator/sales force claim it does.

When somebody is selling garbage and they know its garbage, they try to bury the trash for as long as possible. The seller wants to rope in the gullible before word can disseminate on their product. We see this all the time. Terrible movies/games that a studio knows are bombs will embargo reviewers until the day of release. Ferrari has been pissy in the past about reviews where a team of techs wasn't around to tune up the car before the reviewer's butt hits the seat. Hell, even Kickstarters that seem far past too good to be true given the education and nature of the team involved. The point in using examples of $60 games and $200,000 supercars is to show that the theory remains the same, just the application changes to the medium/audience/product. In this instance the product says it delivers on lower ping and has no evidence of this other than testimonials by anonymous folks on it's creator's site.

On the flip side, I get that WTFast needs to cover their asses to a degree. Their VPN service, if it works like they claim, is going to jack diddly if someone lives in the same town as the server farm they are trying to access. But where is the actual data for someone supposedly benefiting from the service who lives a continent away or several miles over? WTFast has a dead end link on their page to a supposed self reported survey with the banner "Don't take our word for it" with no results. That is it!

Folks need to just accept that if it sounds too good to be true it probably is and it isn't anyone but the product creator's job to prove that point of contention. In this case WTFast has failed miserably.

As for the mods... jesus fuck. That's too much to get into. You got top players holding considerable sway, knee jerk reactions, inability to understand reports of past action versus calls to future action. Just blergh.

Edit: The banner I'm getting for the sub at the moment reads "Voyboy, anything for you bby <3." Funny given the circumstances...

[–]Shadostruct [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ok, I'm going to offer a balanced point of view on this issue. I doubt it'll be read in the clusterfuck that has become this thread, but I'll try regardless.

First off, I think "witch-hunting" is a bullshit reason to pull that video. Second off, I think it was right to pull that video because it makes claims that simply misunderstand what a VPN is and does as well as not being anything League related in the least. Third off, it shouldn't have gotten to the front page, but once it was there it should've stayed because at that point it's too late and it's more hassle removing it and trying to cover it up than just letting people discuss it.

I have no sponsors, I am not affiliated with any companies, I am not a fanboy of any streamers that advertise for WTFast. While I have used the premium version of the product, I have not paid for it myself as the account was lent to me from a viewer for a month. I think this is about as unbiased as it can get.

WTFast employed shady business practices that should be actively condemned by the gaming community in regards to how they handled Steam reviews both negative and positive. Your sponsors do reflect upon you, content creators, whether you want it to or not. I will not defend anything to do with the unethical practices this company has done to stifle honest reviews of their product.

That being said, their product works as advertised. It's not a scam as so many are getting on the bandwagon and saying. I've seen some really stupid things being said in regards to how VPNs work. Things like "It lowers what your ping shows, but this doesn't actually affect performance." Wrong. So wrong. So utterly wrong.

As said in another comment by me in this topic:

Ping is just the time it takes for packets to travel to and from the servers they're communicating with. Things that affect this travel time are: amount of hops, congestion, physical distance, and priorities of certain packets. WTFast is just a VPN. That's all it fucking is. The way it reduces ping is by changing the routing your packets go through to less congested routes with fewer hops.

.

So if you have 60 ms ping and you right click the ground in front of you it will take 60 ms for the action to register. 100 ping is deemed fairly bad because it's .1 of a second, a noticeable amount of time.

If it was a straight line perfect scenario the ping would be X ms. Now add on the factors that increase ping just from infrastructure and you're probably closer to ~X+30 ms. A VPN reduces your ping not by claiming it goes faster than the speed of light, it reduces it by giving you better routing through the infrastructure of the net, so that ~X+30ms might go down to ~X+10 ms.

The reason WTFast or other gaming VPNs (Battleping, etc) is used by so many Australians is because they live so far away the amount of hops their packets take is astronomical on top of the geographic issue of distance. So people overseas connecting to American servers generally see a better performance out of a VPN than someone on the continental US.

When I personally used the program I found it inconvenient and setups that should work better than others didn't. That being said, I got a ~20ms ping reduction. I live on the East Coast, and was getting about 100 ping at the time. I got it down to around 80. Would I recommend the product? Probably not unless you're desperate for a ping decrease or overseas and want to connect to something like an American MMO server. Does the product work? To a degree, yes, it's a VPN, if you do your research on VPNs it's just like any other VPN with an advertisement platform targeted at gamers.

Stop clogging the issue with a whole bunch of garbage that can be easily dispelled by anyone who does some research on how VPNs work. What WTFast did was shitty in how they handled Steam reviews, you don't need anything more to justify avoiding the product.

[–]Yeahdudex 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vooby.. You disappoint me man.

[–]DarthVantos 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The scary thing is what would have happened if richard lewis never covered this story? How many similar things have happened, reported and influenced by a third party and the mods bow their heads. I hate corruption, we've already seen what happened with the whole "Spectate faker" and "scripters" scandals.

"Morally obligated" While trying to mod a sub-reddit, who needs rules when you are Morally obligated.

[–]Philiq 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Oh my god the one and only Voyboy sent a private message to me!!!! I am so starstruck and in awe of his fake Riot-approved streaming personality that i will oblige to his call for censorship and ethical misconduct, based on the monetary benefits he is currently gaining from a shady as fuck company."

-Unnamed subreddit mod, 2015

Wouldn't want to start a witch-hunt now boys ;)

[–]next_DanDy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't want to defend Voyboy. He's a total sellout and lost the little respect I had for him, not that matters for someone like him. But let's not forget that there are a lot of looooved League Youtubers that were/are also promoting WTFast. Fuck Voyboy, but fuck all the others too.

[–]Shermanderland [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well, they're fucked now. It sounded like a cash grab to begin with, and now this? If your business is to help gamers your priority should be helping the fucking gamers and not just looking like you are.

[–]Blackdeath939(EU-W) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Did Voyboy just sold his soul?

[–]NotEvenXz1 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Probably was a hard decision, obviouly not going in the mods' favor, since the majority jumped on the bandwagon hating wtfast, which, arguably, did some shady shit. I get that entirely.

What I don't get is how this is allegedly "Selling out", when it's a sponsor to help pay the bills. It doesn't always work, sure. Not everything is fault free.

Selling out, in my opinion, is a league only streamer advertising Smite, another moba, purely for money.

[–]hamoorftw 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't understand this sudden circlejerk. wtfast works, and it definitely not "snake oil" like that dude said.

[–]jugger77 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

voyboy is a dumbass

[–]DanielShaww(EU-W) [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you go into a non redirect Google page and type "League of Legends", this subreddit will apear on the first page (along with the usual suspects: the official website, LCS site, etc). This means this subreddit is immensely powerful as to where it can draw attention, both good or bad.

Right now, 22k people of a very strict demographic (western, tech savy,19-35 years old, likes video games, has disposable income) is online RIGHT now, and they represent hundreds of thousands of potential income revenue, that is why there's a huge pressure for scummy companies to do this kind of stuff, and even more pressure onto moderators who, believe me, get tons of "offers" to let some things pass.

[–]Qu401 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Is there a way to remove Moderators, The league subreddit has shown time and time again to have biased and corrupted Moderators.

[–]Wasabicannon[Wasabicannon] (NA) 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nope had this issue on another subreddit and you have 2 options.

  1. Pray that they change

  2. Start your own subreddit and pray that people join your subreddit.