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FeminismJust Feminism. (i.imgur.com)

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[–]herewegoaga1n 365 ポイント366 ポイント  (100子コメント)

I wish common sense wasn't such a rare natural resource on this planet.

[–]Bortasz[S] 141 ポイント142 ポイント  (86子コメント)

http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/
For lifting the spirits.
There are reasonable and normal women out there. Majority of them do not agree with feminists.
But feminists are the most vocal, active and organize...

[–]Call_Me_Craig 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (21子コメント)

I believe that feminism can be a good thing...

...in countries where women are actively oppressed.

Countries where women aren't allowed to drive, to make big money decisions on their own, where they are punished for being raped and more. We've passed that stage here.

Compared to that the 'problems' feminists here care about are so very petty. And I find it ridiculous that women seem to get less harsh punishments for the same crimes. Do the same crime, do the same time.

[–]philosoraptor1000 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree. The silly thing is that when you bring something like this up to a western feminist, and they respond with the "fighting for womens rights in third world countries" argument. If that were the case, why aren't you over there in those third world countries fighting?

[–]nopurposeflour 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Slacktivism.

[–]Jerzeem 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If that were the case, why aren't you over there in those third world countries fighting?

It's dangerous over there and that's what (expendable) men are for.

コメントをもっと表示する (18 返事)

    [–]MarlboroMundo 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Anyone who takes such a polarized view on gender is niether reasonable or normal.

    [–]redroom101 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Im not if this applies to her or feminism?

    [–]MarlboroMundo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Take this as a general statement not focused at a single person or demographic

    [–]d3k4y 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Nor do they follow the original principals of feminism. Originally they wanted equality for both sexes. I sometimes wonder if things would be different had they chose a different name. Dude here by the way. I'm not defending feminism by any means. I just think it's a sad state of affairs.

    [–]Demonspawn 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nor do they follow the original principals of feminism. Originally they wanted equality for both sexes.

    This is a common falsehood.

    The original principals of feminism were equal rights. Feminism ignored that men had more responsibility than men did.

    Feminism, since it's inception, has been a female supremacy movement. The only real difference between then and now is that it's harder to hide it's nature after women have obtained men's rights.

    [–]Lauzon_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Feminism has ALWAYS been about granting women male privileges without corresponding responsibilities, and indeed refusing to even acknowledge female privileges, let alone expanding them to men. It's a female supremacist movement. Period.

    [–]oneiorosgripwontstfu 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't know which feminists you've been reading about but it's been a gynocentric approach to genderless issues at least as far back as the suffragette movement. People today seem to think the suffragette protests happened in an environment of all men being able to vote, and no women. The facts tell a different story.

    [–]ghebert001 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nor do they follow the original principles of feminism

    Other than maybe Christina Hoff Sommers and a small handful of others labeling themselves as feminists I don't think anyone follows the original principles.

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]oneiorosgripwontstfu 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Feminists also hate that hashtag. They've had the most hypocritical response to it. While there are many of them who work themselves into a tizz with cries of invasion and spamming if women post dissenting statements in feminist-created hashtags like #yesallwomen or #ifiwereaboy, they feel entitled to post the same type of dismissive and hateful rhetoric in #yesallwomen that the woman in the above image talked about.

      [–]copenhannah 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      This is absolutely brilliant! I've always cause trouble with feminists and I'm called out on my opinions and they always state arguments like "women fought for your rights, you should respect them" etc etc. Certain feminists don't seem to understand the sheer hypocrisy of some of the things they say. I have never felt "oppressed" by men and wasn't even aware of that until feminists tried to align every male action as oppressive in some way. If a man tries to chat me up, I tell him where to go. I make it perfectly clear I'm not interested and generally men leave you alone after that. Yes you get some weirdos but you shouldn't stick around out of spite, just because you shouldn't have to deal with how these men are behaving. If somebody is acting inappropriately towards me, I'm going to fucking leave. I'm not going to strike up some bullshit feminist argument how I shouldn't have to leave just because of this person's lack of respect for me. It is highly unlikely to change his behaviour if he hasn't already accepted a clear "No. Fuck off." Why would I want to remain in potential danger (as I am told that all men are dangerous??)? I don't need feminism because the fact I am a woman does not share every facet of my life. My career, my interests, my opinions are not formed on the basis of my sex. And I don't feel being female has hindered any aspect of my life.

      [–]mriddell001 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's an interesting concept that fighting for something demands unbounded respect. I'm sure quite a few soldiers in WWII were racist, but just because they fought for my freedom doesn't mean I need to respect their racist ways.

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]Adito99 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        People tend to act in their own interest and therefore seize on groups that seem to represent them. The non-oppressed woman does this just like the non-oppressed man. That's no reason to single out feminism, a movement with clear roots in a desire for equality, as more guilty of this sin than any other group.

        I doubt I'm the first person to say this here but mensrights folks and feminists are on the same side. No need to pick fights with idiots and strawman the people wanting to help on issues this sub is about.

        [–]MattBD 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I think it's also worth noting that the vast majority of the inequality in the world is along class lines and not gender lines.

        [–]TRPACC 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Feminism produces anti male legislation, propaganda that covers up abuse and silences any talk of most mens issues in the feminist movement, and will bully, abuse and demonize people who try bring them up.

        Mens Rights - after a long period of trying to work with feminists now aggressively opposes feminist legislation that infringes on mens rights, points out how toxic feminist propaganda about men is and and is debunking it with information that tells both sides of the story instead of one - and hope that once feminism is gone, there can be a true equality movement.

        [–]MagnusTheGreat 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (32子コメント)

        They are extremists. Saying that all feminists are alike is like saying that all Muslims are alike because less than .1% of them are terrorists. And that is just plain ignorance.

        [–]Vandechoz 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The manspreading campaigners, the campus feminists setting up cuddle-party "safe spaces" at speaking events...these aren't the extremists. They are not radfems. These are your average, everyday feminists, and they are the leaders of the movement. The ones that introduce legislation and run academic institutions. They are not just some vocal minority.

        [–]TRPACC 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Unfortunately pretty much all feminists support the propaganda and the legislation created by the extremists.

        A good litmus test is do you support VAWA, or do you believe the feminist claim that abuse is large a gender issue with men as the abusers.

        You will find a very rare outlier that will answer no to both, but not among the average feminist.

        [–]BlueDoorFour 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Almost every feminist I know isn't "like that," just as every Christian I know isn't a bible-thumping fundamentalist. This still isn't an argument for Feminism or Christianity. I can reject the ideology without thinking the worst of its followers.

        Religious groups do some good in the world. They help the homeless, provide comfort to people at the end of life, offer community and comforting traditions. Still, that doesn't mean the faith is right, and it can lead to well-meaning people doing a lot of harm.

        Feminists do a lot of good, too. They support the LGBT and black communities, promote awareness of women's rights issues (some valid, many kinda BS...), and motivate discussions of gender in academia. Still, the ideology does directly lead to people doing a lot of harm, especially when it comes to universities and the legal system.

        [–]pronobis21 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (17子コメント)

        While less that .1% of thenm may be terroists, the percentages that support them are a lot higher. Only 57% of muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda 26% of young muslim americans believe that suicide bombings are justified. And 49.9% of muslims worldwide polled support Osama Bin Laden.

        コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

          [–]Griddamus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          The mouse who squeaks loudest gets the cheese, unfortunately

          [–]WhiteThrone 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          The mouse who squeaks loudest also attracts the attention of the cat. chomp chomp chomp

          [–]TheAverageBro 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Turns out the rat was a mutant with super retard strength and the squeal projected in the most bitchy tone you've ever heard in your entire life. Curiosity ended up killing the cat is what I was gettin' at breh.

          [–]Keiichi81 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Look at all those poor sock puppets with internalized misogyny being forced to lie by their Patriarchal oppressors. Such a shame. It's a good thing feminism is out there fighting for their right to say how they really feel, which is to say how feminism tells them they should feel.

          コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

            [–]jostler57 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Shhh...

            [–]PaintAndPlastic 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Kind of Ironic calling it 'common' sense then.

            [–]Spinkler 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Hang on... By very definition common sense is common.

            ... Maybe we're the crazy ones? :o

            [–]herewegoaga1n 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That's an interesting thought. Allow me to offer a counter-point.

            コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

              [–]gramsespektrum 150 ポイント151 ポイント  (123子コメント)

              I think we need to define feminism whenever we discuss it. I know some girls who call themselves feminist who really want female privilege instead of equality. But I also know girls who call themselves feminists who want actual equal rights between genders.

              If we're bashing feminists, I feel it's important to define what we're bashing. Surely, /r/mensrights support equal rights?

              EDIT: Okay, I just looked up a couple of difinitions of feminism.

              The Oxford Dictionary says: "The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

              Wikipedia says: "...to define, establish, and achieve equal political, economic, cultural, personal, and social rights for women. This includes seeking to establish equal opportunities for women in education and employment."

              I think the classic definition is pretty clear. It's about giving women the same rights as men.

              EDIT2: A lot of you are arguing that all feminists are crazy, that feminism is hateful, and that feminists don't want equality. I never claimed that some feminists aren't like that. The whole point of my post was to remind you that we need to define what feminism is, when we're criticizing it. Also, lots of women call themselves feminists without being like you guys describe them. Some of you seem to think that all women are crazy. Good luck with that. Misogyny is bad, mm-kay?

              [–]-Fender- 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              And in every single instance where feminists seek equal rights as men, we've supported them. What we take issue with is when they try to impose equal outcomes, even when equal opportunities were afforded.

              What we argue against is legislative privileges and double standards being given to people on the sole basis of gender. We hate hypocrisy and support consistency in one's beliefs.

              If someone labelling herself a feminists claims that she wants equality for all and actually acts and behaves in a way that is consistent with this statement, then we will take no issues whatsoever with her. An example of this would be Christina Hoff Sommers.

              However, if they claim to support equality but only every argue about issues faced by a single gender, or if they argue in favour of female supremacy, then we will call them out. The large majority of feminists fit in this category. They might not all think that all men are horrible rapists and may not believe that the world would be better off without them, but they will still believe the feminist religious ideals of patriarchy (where being born a man is the original sin), and they will still believe that women should get recompense from men because they were born with that sin.

              If someone does not believe in Patriarchy Theory, then I would not consider them a feminist, as that is probably the primary, core ideal of that ideology. If they do not believe in it and still support equality, then they would be Egalitarians. No matter what the dictionaries might say, this is basically where the divide resides nowadays.

              [–]50PercentLies 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              What we take issue with is when they try to impose equal outcomes, even when equal opportunities were afforded.

              So much of this.

              [–]DasUberVega 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (37子コメント)

              Personally Feminism and gender equality are two different things to me. Even the word 'Feminism' suggest that it is about women. Feminism suggests that men have all the rights they need and that women need those same rights. However, to say that women don't have certain advantages in certain situations is simply wrong. I feel everyone can get behind the term 'gender equality' but the word 'Feminism' just brings about so much hate.

              [–]Blindocide 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (20子コメント)

              so let's call ourselves "men's rights."

              [–]Pathfinder24 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (7子コメント)

              MRAs want equality in areas where men are disadvantaged and feminists want equality in areas where women are disadvantaged. Neither consider equality in all areas to be a primary focus.

              I think MRAs have a greater argument (assuming the two are competing or contradictory, which they may not be) because their inequality is provable and institutionalized in the justice system, whereas inequality against women (which I do agree does exist) is mainly cultural and social, and does not manifest in law.

              [–]R-Ra10 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

              The key distinction that everyone fails to make is the difference between equality of worth as persons and equality of function.

              Feminists are dedicated to the perverse homogenization of gender functions. This is to force men and women to abandon their respective gender functions and to compete with each other at their complementary gender functions. It makes about as much sense as men competing against women at giving birth of women competing against men in an arm wrestling contest. Both will fail because they are neglecting their own gender functions to compete for a function that doesn't suit them.

              Equality of worth as person however does not rely on equality of outcome. While men and women are both equally necessary because they each fulfill a vital gender function that the other cannot fulfill, their outcomes are not equal, as they were never meant to be. To unnaturally focus on equality of outcome as feminists have done is to destroy the harmonious gender functions of both men and women that are designed to complement each other.

              [–]xNOM 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              There is no such thing: Equality between men and women is not achievable

              [–]missted_opportunity 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              MRAs want equality in areas where men are disadvantaged and feminists want equality in areas where women are disadvantaged. Neither consider equality in all areas to be a primary focus.

              This is misleading. If feminists really wanted equality, they wouldn't try to censor and suppress the very discussion of it in public.

              [–]AkaviriDragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              What's in a name? A rose, by any other name, would achieve equality given people would fucking listen to us for once, judge us by our actions, ended gender quotas, sorted the draft, illegalized circumcision, and feminists stopped silencing our conferences god fucking damn it. I'd join a women's rights group given the chance but guess what I couldn't find one because feminists have yet to be smart enough to destinguish themselves from the loonies.

              The reason i'm on Men's Rights is because i'm supporting men's rights because they god damn need it I mean when was the last time you saw the problems I mentioned affecting women? inb4 women have their own problem which I will ask sources for.

              コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

                [–]StartTheRuckus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Feminism and gender equality are different things to me, but that isn't necessarily a problem. I believe the problem stems when feminists claim that they are the same thing. Gender equality itself is just a part of general 'equality', something I think we all aim for. But it's a big, big word and saying "I just want equality for everyone" or "I'm not a feminist, I'm an egalitarian" seems both unnecessary and impractical at getting anything done.
                Humans work best when they can focus on one certain thing; it's the division of labour pretty much. People that fight for racial equality are, hopefully, also in favour of equal rights for LGBTQ people, but it would be impractical if they also had to actively fight for LGBTQ rights, and rights for the disabled etc. in the name of 'equality'. As long as a supporter of racial equality doesn't hinder the progress of equality in general, that's fine, and that's why focusing on the rights of women is fine, too.
                The problem comes when feminism tries to equate itself with gender equality, or even equality as a whole: it belittles the problems men face, and it ignores them. This is /r/mensrights, I don't need to list the inequalities faced by males in our society today. If a person would rather fight against the injustices faced by females instead, of which there are still many, that's fine! Similarly, if they'd rather be an LGBTQ activist, that's also their choice to make. But when feminism is seen as 'gender equality for everyone', as it claims and strives itself to be, things like 'men's rights' are seen as unnecessary, when that's clearly not true.
                There's nothing wrong with feminism, in general; in fact I believe it was and still can be a very good thing, though one I am not personally interested in. The problem is feminism parading around like it's the be-all, end-all of equality when it is far from that, and silencing the views of others that work towards better lives for other groups, or dare to question some of the more 'out there' goals and statements of feminism.

                [–]AkaviriDragon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                hey, sorta random question, what's happening in our comments? are we getting invaded or did we get turned into a default sub ?

                [–]Vice5772 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This thread went to /r/all

                [–]gramsespektrum 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                I think the reason it's called feminism instead of say, equalism, is that it was invented back when women really were oppressed. When they couldn't vote, make a career, be independent etc. The goal was still equality, not female privilege.

                I don't see how it's different from his sub named Men's Rights.

                [–]Demonspawn 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                The goal was still equality, not female privilege.

                The goal was men's rights while rejecting men's responsibilities.

                The goal was equal rights, but equal rights with lesser responsibilities is supremacy, not equality.

                Feminism was never about equality.

                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                  [–]Pathfinder24 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  "The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes."

                  It's not about giving women the same rights as men. It's about giving women equal rights as men, only in areas in which men are currently advantaged, while maintaining discrepancies in areas where men are disadvantaged. This is not real equality.

                  [–]overcherie 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  People who want equal rights are not feminists, they're equalists. I would love for this to be put on TwoX but it would get downvoted into oblivion. Women need to open their eyes and realize how privileged they really are. I am a woman and I hate feminism. It's putting one gender over another. We're all people.

                  [–]obliviious 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  they're equalists.

                  Humanists

                  FTFY

                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]Flareprime 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    I know some girls who call themselves feminist who really want female privilege instead of equality. But I also know girls who call themselves feminists who want actual equal rights between genders.

                    Third option - people who just default to feminism because they've been told its good and right, and have stayed that way because they've never put any thought or research into the subject.

                    Almost hard to blame them, with the schools promoting feminism and the peer pressure - they just become a groupthink mob (which can happen to anyone). Those are the ones I wish could be educated, but its all but impossible to break through that bubble of feminist social influence.

                    [–]bpj1805 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    It doesn't even need to be a groupthink mob. They might just identify with "feminism" because they like the dictionary definition, but it isn't something they feel or act very strongly about so they actually aren't even aware of the incoherent (with the dictionary definition) things done in the name of "their" movement.

                    [–]Vice5772 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    If you identify with an ideology because of a dictionary definition, you're an idiot. That goes for any ideology

                    [–]seraph582 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Your last statement is why this exists: http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/

                    It's also why I'm confused that feminists spend so much time worrying about the first world when there are horrific gender-based travesties constantly in the third world...

                    [–]Electroverted 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    If you think that neo (third wave) feminists are going to care about dictionary definitions

                    You're gonna have a bad time

                    [–]DavidByron2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Feminism is a hate movement. In their popular phase hate movements are often seen as "progressive" but they are not. The clue is that feminists lobby against basic civil rights.

                    [–]Sir_Nivag 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (26子コメント)

                    I feel this community has dramatically shifted recently. It used to be about true equality and true feminists were on our side and we were on theirs. Unfortunately every group has its extremists or crazies. Sadly, that goes for us too and it's gotten worse. Now feminism is the enemy and stories solely about women are now men's rights issues. Now I have to defend myself and/or feel shame when openly stating my allegiance here.

                    I really just wish there was an all-encompassing equality movement that had no other agenda than just that. With a clear set of ideologies and beliefs that helped drive the movement and easily denounce the people who identify as a member but clearly have no place there.

                    [–]I_A_M 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Gender Egalitarianism may be what you're looking for.

                    [–]autowikibot 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Gender equality:

                    Gender equality, also known as sex equality, gender egalitarianism, sexual equality or equality of the genders, is the view that men and women should receive equal treatment, and should not be discriminated against based on gender. This is the objective of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which seeks to create equality in law and in social situations, such as in democratic activities and securing equal pay for equal work. The related topic of rights is treated in two separate articles, Men's rights and Women's rights.

                    Image i - One of generic symbols for gender equality

                    Interesting: Ministry of Gender Equality and Family | European Parliament Committee on Women's Rights and Gender Equality | Minister for Gender Equality (Denmark) | European Institute for Gender Equality

                    Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

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                      [–]cvillano 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I think the rise of SJW and all the publicity they've been getting recently, from the likes of Anita Sarkesian, Suey Park, Rebecca Watson etc, has really rallied a lot of neutrals into the anti-SJW, anti-feminist camp and they're reacting very strongly to these new pc police. I think there's been a surge in people who didn't care either way that are now looking for ways to fight back and/or vent their frustrations.

                      [–]Vice5772 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Yep, the tipping point for me was Elevatorgate, where Rebecca Watson made every man who's ever propositioned a woman for coffee feel like a rapist. I don't recall any feminist outrage against Rebecca Watson for that bullshit.

                      [–]fuckfeminister 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      Look at the fucking FAQ why feminism isn't the answer for mens rights. It's been debated over, and over, and over again. Most feminists don't support equality, the sooner people realise this the better.

                      [–]AnArcher 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Yes, I'm thisclose to unsubscribing to this sub because it's turned into more of a he-man woman-haters club, which is enough like the rest of reddit overall that this sub has become extraneous to me. There must be an egalitarian sub somewhere, but this aint it.

                      [–]xNOM 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      /r/egalitarianism. how hard was that?

                      [–]AnArcher 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I am not a smart man.

                      [–]46n2arejustaheadofme 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      Why shouldn't you have to defend your position when you claim allegiance to what many of us have know first hand is a hate group? [Edit: misunderstood the person I replied to, he's not identifying as a feminist]

                      People are going to ask you questions and for evidence of your claims, they might even point out that you're wrong about something, if you don't like it you can find the door.

                      The fact that you don't understand how an article about a woman can be about men's rights shows you don't really know what you're talking about with regards to the content in this sub.

                      [–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It used to be about true equality and true feminists were on our side and we were on theirs.

                      Feminism has kinda always been against men's rights. There's a reason they drove Warren Farrell out of NOW so many years ago for standing up for abused men.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                        [–]HappyGerbil88 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think mainstream feminism is awful and that MRAs are very justified in opposing it. That said, there's too much feminist bashing for the sake of feminist bashing on this sub. If it's about a specific men's issue that feminists are opposing us on, then bash away. But if it's just general complaints about feminism then other subs would be better. /r/tumblrinaction, /r/mensrants, or for ones like OP /r/ineedfeminismbecause would work too.

                        [–]blueXcat 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        ...based on the premise that men have more right. And that's the problem.

                        Mens rights want equal right, but also fight were they have less rights.

                        [–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        But I also know girls who call themselves feminists who want actual equal rights between genders.

                        Given that the vast majority of women reject feminism either that means this is not the definition or most women don't feel they deserve to be equal to men.

                        I'd put money on the former.

                        [–]Demonspawn 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Surely, /r/mensrights[1] support equal rights?

                        Do men and women have equal responsibilities?

                        [–]xNOM 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I think the classic definition is pretty clear. It's about giving women the same rights as men.

                        LOL note that the word "responsibilities" appears nowhere.

                        [–]Fetish_Goth 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                        It's about giving women the same rights as men.

                        No. It's not.

                        [–]jordanleite25 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        Yep male feminist here. I fully support women paying for their own meals on a date, making women apply for the draft, re-doing sexist child support/custody laws, etc

                        [–]DavidByron2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        all issues the MRA lobby on and the feminists lobby against.

                        [–]Vice5772 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        What about addressing the huge lack gender parity in Universities? 60-66% of women versus 33-40% men. What about taking gender neutral words like "bossy" and applying them to gendered issues of being the primary inhibitor of women seeking leadership positions? When we see stuff like this, we see that feminism is clearly full of shit.

                        [–]strint 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Definition doesn't really matter to me since so few actually live up to it. Mainstream feminism doesn't live up to it. People like Christina Hoff Sommers are the radicals now.

                        [–]cuteman 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It would serve to better define them as sjw or something similar. Disparaging feminism can turn some people off who might otherwise be allies.

                        Just like mensrights often gets combined with theredpill and while there may be some participant overlap, completely misses the thesis of mensrights and is therefore invalid as a philosophical comparison.

                        [–]Sinimo 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        The problem with Feminism is they believe that females are below males and that they need to be raised to be on the same level that males are, but in doing so, they're actually raised higher than males because in reality, both Genders have their downsides and upsides, but it seems feminists only notice the faults in being a female.

                        I mean the entire movement focuses on women, it's named Feminism for gods sake. You'd think for a movement that supposedly wants equality between genders, would fight and look into all discrimination against the genders, not just female problems. Where's the Equality in that? That's like a campaign called "AntiRacism" that only focuses on racism towards black people, and not Asians, white people and Mexicans. Sure, racism against black people exists, but so does racism against all the other races too, and failure to see that is just ignorant, and you're gonna be hated by everyone else. So no wonder why nobody likes feminists.

                        Idc if I get downvoted for this tbh.

                        [–]SweetiePieJonas 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        If we're going by the "classic definition," it's long since time for feminism to pack it in.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

                          [–]drinkthebleach 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                          I stopped posting here when someone messaged me my parent's home address. I hate how acceptable doxxing is when it's against a person you disagree with.

                          [–]RadioHigher 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (19子コメント)

                          Posting here, to /r/mensrights? How did someone get your parents home address? Doxxing isn't allowed on reddit. Am I missing something?

                          [–]drinkthebleach 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                          A few years ago, basically all I did was sit here and read and comment and work, it really stressed me out, I wouldn't advise it. So when SRS started doxxing people I got that message, was pretty easily found through hunting around google. I just lurk now. Was around the time that Jeremiah guy was all over the place, if you remember that.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                            [–]labiaflutteringby 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I'm a feminist and similar things have happened to me on reddit. Doxxing isn't ever acceptable.

                            [–]flyingwolf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Got me too, I was sent two links to google maps, one a street view of my house, one of my kids school.

                            Abandoned that name, never used it again, it would have been 6 years old this year.

                            I tracked down the person who doxxed me though, sent their info to the admins and the police. Their account has not posted since I did that.

                            [–]DontBeAfraidToSpeak 188 ポイント189 ポイント  (60子コメント)

                            How did "Feminism" call her anything? Particular people who claim to represent that philosophy might have said nasty things, but to claim the entire dogma is speaking to her is pretty dumb. I'm all for calling out over the top pc bs, but this whole post is nonsense. Are you all just so eager to circle jerk that you don't use logic when someone is on your side?

                            [–]Slyndrr 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                            Saw this from /r/all and wondered what the hell this has to do with men's rights.

                            [–]AkaviriDragon 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Feminism is the greatest adversary of men's rights. They constantly silence our conferences and make us look bad.

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO_X4DkwA_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFy0HMxsn4I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRWff4gCwTw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOnuZsXRwTA

                            [–]YT4LYFE 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                            This post is this subreddit in a nutshell.

                            [–]Slyndrr 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            Yeah, I just took a look at the other headlines.. wtf. This is just a feminism bashing circlejerk. Too bad, the topic should deserve better than that.

                            [–]BlueDoorFour 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            While I agree that this post in particular is mostly a circle-jerk, there is a discussion in this sub about how Feminism itself is a men's rights issue. When the dominant voice on gender politics informs policies that deny and/or exacerbate men's issues... it becomes our concern. There's enough in the FAQ and in the top posts so I won't explain it all here.

                            Yes, a lot of this sub is venting about it. There aren't many places where it's safe to do so. Personally, I would prefer that these kinds of posts go to r/mensrants and that this sub be reserved for more substantial conversation, but this is the more visible sub and these posts are popular.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                              [–]Cock_unblocker 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                              But isn't that the point of subreddits? They didn't set this place up to debate people on the other spectrum. They come here to discuss issues with people who view the same ideas in the same light. I don't understand where they could go to be "circlejerky" if this isn't the place.

                              [–]AkaviriDragon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Well yeah but they have to say that, how else are these feminists invading us going to make us look bad?...

                              [–]YT4LYFE 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              The point is that MensRights isn't quite the same thing as FuckFeminism.

                              [–]Electroverted 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                              Probably that part about men not having to carry guilt on their shoulders, but I guess your tunnel vision is pretty narrow?

                              コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                                [–]waawftutki 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                Coming in from /r/all to say this. I knew this subreddit was pretty circlejerk-y, but this is just nonsense. You could find an asshole in every single movement/religion/etc., and make a little provocative paper about it, to take a selfie with.

                                [–]Castigale 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                I used to feel that way too, but the rabbit hole goes much much deeper.

                                You're not required to take an interest, but if you do, you'll find the problem is much larger than just a few assholes.

                                [–]seraph582 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                The same way "the patriarchy" is "oppressive?" See, what you're calling out as BS is precisely what's so funny about your comment: it's worded in religion-y vagueness that mimics the very language used by modern third wave feminists because it was written as an appeal to them, not as the male fan service you're portraying it to be and mocking it for.

                                It's just as dumb for her to be treating feminism as a single entity that's responsible for her maltreatment the exact same way that a feminist writes off an unpleasant interaction with a male individual as the fault of "the patriarchy."

                                [–]thelotusknyte 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I think you're harping on her poor word choice instead what she's trying to say. Would you find it hard to believe that more than one, or even many feminists treated her that way?

                                I've come across feminists who are how she's describing in my every day life without looking for them. I've only met a few who are like Big Red, but I'm not surprised at all at her experience. Many feminists that I know (I live in Boulder, so I know a lot of them) would consider her a traitor. The kinds of threats she claims she's had are perfectly in line with 3rd wave fundamentalist feminism, which takes its methodological cues from socialist anarchists, or maybe it's the other way around, either way, it's not outside possibility that what she says is true.

                                [–]AkaviriDragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Its enough feminists pulling this shit and enough people willing to prove it that it raises a legitimate concern for the credibility of the feminist movement.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (28 返事)

                                  [–]CoffeeQuaffer 207 ポイント208 ポイント  (51子コメント)

                                  "We're not all like that." Rather than, "I'm sorry"

                                  Umm... yes, that's completely right. They're not all like that. And someone who is not guilty shouldn't have to apologize on behalf of someone who is.

                                  Having said that, this line of reasoning was not acceptable to feminists when they, by and large, painted all men as rapists, murderers, pedophiles, etc. and men responded with #NotAllMen.

                                  Here, I'm just talking about a line of reasoning. Men, as a group, and feminists, as a group, do not share the same amount of sin on their shoulders.

                                  [–]bluescape 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                  Even still, one is a group that you're born into, the other is a group that you choose to be in. You may be born Russian, but you choose to be a communist. I get what you're saying about group responsibility, but I think the distinction needs to be made between being born into a group, and choosing to affiliate yourself with said group.

                                  [–]outcastded 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                  Yes. But even if I became Muslim, I wouldn't feel the need to apologize for the terrorists.

                                  [–]Just_pass_it_to_Will 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  You are correct, however muslims do hold protests and rallys to show that they do not agree with what the muslim extremists are doing. After any terrorist attacks that was caused by muslims, right afterwards muslims will usually hold rally to show the world that they do not agree with the extremists. I've never seen feminists publicly protest the crazy feminists that are giving the movement a bad name. This post actually surprised me I haven't seen many women call out modern day feminism.

                                  [–]Winter_of_Discontent 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Solid point.

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                                    [–]jb_trp 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Exactly. And accepting the label of "feminism" legitimizes the radical, angry, hateful feminists. Do I think there might be one or two actually nice people in the Westboro Baptist Church? Maybe. Would I ever join that church or feel okay with others joining that church? Hell no. I wouldn't want to encourage even more hate or support to that worldview. Why would I want to do the same for feminists? However, simply accepting the title of feminist and encouraging others to join the movement does exactly that for the hateful feminists.

                                    [–]CoffeeQuaffer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    I agree, of course :)

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                      [–]fanboat 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      I feel like feminism suffers from a similar problem that Islam does. If there are a bunch of people claiming to represent the group doing evil stuff, what do you do? I mean, if enough people (maybe a dozen) roamed the world stabbing children shouting "for Buddha!" eventually there would be a consensus that 'the Buddhists' needed to get their shit straight.

                                      The difference being the ratio of one set to another. I've seen feminist speakers that I've wholly agreed with but their point of view does not seem to be shared widely nor viewed as representative of feminism.

                                      [–]geekygirl23 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Oh yes, the poor misunderstood pedants choosing to call themselves feminists instead of just not being sexist assholes. Whatever will they do if they can't use that exact word. It's in the dictionary you know!

                                      [–]fanboat 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Well that's my point. Who's to say the 'real' Muslims aren't the ones out blowing shit up? If someone holds up your name or cause or whatever while doing shit you don't like, what do you do?

                                      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                                        [–]Electroverted 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Men do not have a choice when identifying themselves by gender.

                                        Women most definitely have a choice when identifying themselves as feminist.

                                        Therefore, a woman who identifies as feminist and responds with "not all feminists" instead of "I apologize for their conduct" is a shit-head too.

                                        [–]Alzael 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        Men, as a group, and feminists, as a group, do not share the same amount of sin on their shoulders.

                                        I would disagree in the case of a group that you willingly belong to. There is a responsibility for the group,because you support the group itself. So when the group acts, it acts with your help unless you do something to actively oppose it.

                                        To go with the Nazism example you used below.Hitler could only do what he did because he had the support of millions backing him,without all of his followers he would have just been some second rate painter.His followers do hold responsibility for what Nazism did because they supported Nazism,even if they didn't personally kill every Jew.They gave their support to the regime that did.

                                        I would also point out, that feminists are perfectly ok with being blamed for everything when it's something good. They will proudly declare that all of feminism was responsible for women voting, or give all feminism credit for the things they like. So, it is only fair to hold them equally accountable for the bad things feminism does. Of course that's when they hypocritically pull out the NAFALT.

                                        [–]BALROGG 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        "We're not all like that." Rather than, "I'm sorry"

                                        And someone who is not guilty shouldn't have to apologize on behalf of someone who is.

                                        I don't think she means it as an apology but rather a sign of empathy, such as "I'm sorry for the death of your relative."

                                        [–]hugolp 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        You are correct from a theoretical point of view but I think he is just referring to common courtesy. If I identify as a part of a group and someone tells me someone from that group said or did something hurtful there is a difference between answering: 1) well, we are not all like that, or 2)I'm sorry that happened, hopefully you get to know us better and get a better impression.

                                        Its obvious that you are not directly responsible for what another individual does, but no need to be a dick about it. But given feminists "in your face" "I can do no wrong attitude" I can imagine the common sense they displayed.

                                        [–]SilencingNarrative 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I don't think the woman in the poster was blaming a person who said nafalt for the actions of the ones who doxxed her. She was saying that a label, like feminist, that is not actively policed well enough to exclude doxxers is not a label she wants to adopt. The inability, or unwillingness, of moderate feminists to call out the hatred of men in their ranks renders the label feminist dishonorable.

                                        When people who assert that women are morally or intellectually inferior to men are not routinely called out in the MRM, I will stop calling myself an MRA.

                                        [–]Jesus_marley 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        It's more the reaction of becoming instantly defensive of the in group rather than acknowledging that members of that group behave atrociously and denouncing them for that behaviour. I'm sure you will note the very public efforts the MRM has shown to weed out those who claim solidarity but act contrary to the goal. An example is the public dunounciation of the attacker of the feminist protester. No one ever did learn that persons identity, but the MRM pulled together and created a tangible reward for any info leading to their arrest. Now, some people may claim that there never was an attacker, and that may very well be true, but until there is evidence that shows that to be the case, we assume the attack to be real and react accordingly.

                                        Contrast that to the typical NAFALT reaction whenever real evidence of feminist hate comes to light. All you see is handwaving and a declaration that most feminists are good people, but they as a group still just sit back and ride the waves created by the hatemongers...

                                        [–]MarkRippetoesGlutes 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        It's definitely complex but I think this is an important distinction to make.

                                        If you look at /u/bluescape's comment about choosing to be part of a group vs being born into it, I think that further adds to this point too.

                                        If you're a muslim and someone says that muslims, motivated by islam, attacked them, then you saying "I'm sorry that happened to you" already suggests that you disagree with that outcome as well as respecting the experience of that person. When you say, "nah urh, not true!!" it turns the conversation into a denial of the persons experience. Now if the person is wrong in there account then that's a different matter altogether but unfortunately there are bad people in every group so it's not unlikely what the person in OP's pic experienced.

                                        But by establishing their actions as wrong first, you equally establish that you, in this example you are a feminist, also think that those actions are wrong and hence an apology makes sense i.e. "I'm sorry that you experienced that", not "I'm personally sorry for those events even though I wasn't a part of them".

                                        We're talking "sorry", like "I'm sorry for your loss", not "I'm sorry because I was responsible".

                                        EDIT: I'm a little confused as to why this is now marked as a controversial comment so if anyone wants to chime in I'd be happy for the opinion.

                                        [–]geekygirl23 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Someone that isn't sexist and discriminatory shouldn't pick a moniker that

                                        a) Sounds sexist and discriminatory.

                                        b) Has a vocal group of assholes claiming that same moniker and making sure everyone knows it.

                                        Say you are for equal rights, hell, just say you are a decent human being. Calling yourself a feminist is unnecessary and loaded.

                                        [–]Emergencyegret 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        exactly. "not all men" is the same response the other side has.

                                        [–]AkaviriDragon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        I agree with you. I think that the ideology that feminism represents is damaged beyond all hope of repair. Analogous

                                        Groups are made up by individuals but when a group sistematically does wrong it MUST apologize, shun those who have done the damage, and distinguish themselves from those who did it, or it will lose credibility. When we see feminists constantly harassing/doxxing/threatening women who dont agree with them, silencing men's right conferences, lying about gender pay, wanting shorter sentances for women, etc, and they do so in large numbers, they CANNOT be excused with a "we're not all like that". Yes, NAFALT, but the majority is! And if not the majority then we can both agree its enough to fucking matter!

                                        And in this, the mystical wonder-feminists who should be shunning these man-hating cunts at the same rate that they spew out hatred have stayed nearly dead quiet.

                                        [–]Bortasz[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        But Only feminists that call out bullshit is Christina Hoff Summers. and she is Attack by feminists constantly. Called that she is not True feminists constantly.
                                        When I search for women who are in this gender debate and A) do not hate men, or B) supporting rights of men. I come here, or go to http://womenagainstfeminism.tumblr.com/
                                        Sorry but if Feminists wish to clean there name they must call out women like Valenti who not only hate men but she glorificate it.

                                        コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

                                          [–]Lauzon_ 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Since this was front-paged I'm gonna hijack the top post and link to the work of Karen Straughan. She posts here occasionally and will hopefully chime in on this thread.

                                          Me a feminist? No way:

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqEeCCuFFO8

                                          Is Feminism hate?

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDYAVROaIcs

                                          How Feminism conned society

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RozEFVPDxeg

                                          Benevolent sexism?

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VupEC0cAWo

                                          The Tyranny of Female Hypoagency

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE

                                          Feminism and the Disposable Male.

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp8tToFv-bA

                                          A few good videos by Lindy Beige on female power in history:

                                          Women power in the past

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrgovSZ32Yg

                                          Sex Power: when women were different and men were disposable

                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSX7iT0n65Q

                                          Nice summary of Issues here: Why we need a men's rights movement

                                          http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2xmm3p/i_cant_believe_people_think_we_dont_need_a_mens/

                                          Good reading:

                                          The Myth of Male Power

                                          http://www.amazon.com/Myth-Male-Power-Warren-Farrell-ebook/dp/B00IDHV5EM

                                          The Privileged Sex

                                          http://www.amazon.com/Privileged-Sex-Martin-van-Creveld-ebook/dp/B00EX5PJC2/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1427403378&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=privilged+sex

                                          No More Sex War

                                          http://www.amazon.com/More-Sex-War-Neil-Lyndon/dp/1856191915/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1427403395&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=no+more+sex+war

                                          The Second Sexism

                                          http://www.amazon.com/Second-Sexism-Discrimination-Against-Boys/dp/0470674512/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427403501&sr=1-1&keywords=second+sexism

                                          The War Against Boys

                                          http://www.amazon.com/War-Against-Boys-Misguided-Policies/dp/1451644183/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427403440&sr=1-1&keywords=war+against+boys

                                          [–]Actionbuilding 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          A good portion of that description can be applied to all organized religion, too.

                                          [–]GrilBTW 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Online pictures of people holding text become super credible when they confirm my bias.

                                          [–]thekarateguy 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Clearly this is a sock puppet.

                                          [–]Old_Army90 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          I don't have anything intelligent to contribute, just that I spent a good amount of time straining to read what was on her sheet only to realize after that the exact same text was written on the right.

                                          [–]ctlawguy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          It's funny how when someone criticizes feminism for the extreme statements made by feminists, so many "real feminists" come by to say how these are extremists who don't represent feminism.

                                          Yet when the extremists who "don't represent feminism" are making these statements of which we complain, the "real feminists" are nowhere to be found.

                                          Funny how that is?!

                                          Until you "real feminists" shout down the extremists with the same fervor you reserve for anything that could questionably be considered "misogyny" (whatever that means this week), I'm lumping you all in the same category.

                                          Silence is endorsement.

                                          [–]Bortasz[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          This is so infuriating...
                                          If they put half of effort they put in to screaming NAFALT in to actually fighting radfem... God world would be so much better place.

                                          [–]HydrogenxPi 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          Bizzaro Big Red

                                          [–]DarkLordKindle 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Regardless on what the message is. I am really glad someone translated it to plain text. Too many times I can't read the hand weiting

                                          [–]lovewd 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                          Feminism in 2015 is a complete joke. It's literally just turned into a war on men and any woman who disagrees with there beliefs. Have a woman stay at home to take care of her children and her home, feminists call her an oppressed woman who's being treated horribly by her misogynistic piece of shit husband. But tell her to work at a daycare where she can watch other people's kids, it makes her a strong independent female who is there definition of why women need feminists. It seems like women who are extreme feminists are scared that if they don't take a stand and try to replace men all together, they will somehow become useless. But as the only sex who can give birth to children, no matter what a woman's job is, or how much she gets paid, women will always be useful to men and to the world. So feminists that are hardcore need to just sit back, and relax a little bit.

                                          [–]buboniccronic 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                          I've literally never met a feminist like this outside of tumbler. Most people who say they are just strive for equality and the fact that reddit hates on them so much is ignorant.

                                          [–]DavidByron2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          This subreddit is full of examples of high profile feminists pulling shit like that.

                                          [–]AkaviriDragon 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Well, i've literally never met a feminist that isn't like this so I guess we're at an impasse.

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                                            [–]Biwin 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            "Mocking others that who think differently."

                                            FTFY

                                            [–]velrick 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            We seem to have hit that unfortunate state that happens all too often these days; the good thing has been poisoned by hateful people.

                                            The normal approach is a re-branding and an attempt to leave those "bad apples" behind. That's not exactly worked excellently in the past, however.

                                            [–]Blutarg 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            She's not ugly. And her handwriting is lovely.

                                            [–]10week 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            It's so weird to me when people on reddit sit and make fun of their reflection.

                                            [–]Dr_Bishop 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            You're preaching to the choir, but still...

                                            [–]PixyFreakingStix 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                            Funny. When I disagreed with /r/mensrights, I got called fat, ugly, brainwashed and stupid too.

                                            [–]NegativeGPA 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            And now you learn the true secret: groups lose intelligence after they reach a certain size. Genius tends to work better in very small circles. Admire people, not groups

                                            [–]WaynesCotting 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                            Where?

                                            The only thing I see in your entire user history (your account is four days old) is this:

                                            https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/304jht/can_your_pussypass_get_denied_if_youre_a_14_year/cpppa65?context=3

                                            And all I saw is you discounting a person's opinion about circumcision being a problem because, among other things, "it isn't talked about outside of the manosphere". Despite the fact that he was telling you, having experienced it, that he had the opinion that it was a big issue. Seemed pretty dismissive and like you had a preconceived notion you were upset that you had to question.

                                            After you wrote a long post with lots of points he'd probably want to respond to, you concluded by saying that you wouldn't even listen to what he had to say from that point on. Why? Because he discussed a topic you didn't like:

                                            This is such a typical, thoughtless /r/mensrights argument. Bringing up the draft of all things. Jesus Christ. Respond if you want, I'm not going to read it. You've managed to piss me off, though. I hope you're able to enjoy whatever satisfaction it brings you.

                                            [–]AkaviriDragon 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                            Well, I say that never happened. We're at an impasse unless you show some proof of it.

                                            [–]seraph582 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            No you didnt

                                            [–]fuckfeminister 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            This thread sure got brigaded. Sure you did.

                                            [–]Curious_Swede 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Yeah. I havn't visited /r/MensRights for a while but I can tell that this whole subreddit has been brigaded as usual.

                                            [–]AkaviriDragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Oh shit, quick, pose and greet.

                                            Hi, SRS and feminism. Greeetings from men's rights!

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                                                [–]DevilishRogue 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Wow, I feel really bad for the person who experienced that. Hope she is doing okay now.

                                                [–]Holyhitman173 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                I'm sorry that I may be blind to this but not once have I seen a sign of women being discriminated or anything.

                                                [–]vasheenomed 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                I have so many friends who their argument has always been "well we have been opressed for centuries, it's fine for us to get treated better now since girls have been 2nd class for so long"

                                                it makes me angry :/ I'm a guy and I believe that the past is behind us. I treat girls just like I treat guys, and for some reason that isn't good enough for some girls

                                                I REALLY get upset though when people say "you don't know what it is like, you're a white male".... wtf? I'm also autistic, and I don't go around all day talking about how I deserve special treatment and benefits because I hear people making fun of autistic people all the time

                                                idk.... the last few years I've felt like I'm sexist, I try my best to think of equality and such, and not to be biased by gender or race, but with how some people talk to me I can't help feeling like I'm oppressing women somehow XD

                                                [–]DavidByron2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                It's hate movement logic. Jews killed Christ so therefore all Jews are murderers. That's why it "makes sense" to these people that an imagined crime from centuries ago should deserve completely different people being punished.

                                                With feminism it makes even less sense than usual because everyone has 50% ancestors who were women and 50% men.

                                                Basically it's feminism saying men are inherently evil, and therefore must be attacked.

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                                                  [–]JeebusChrist 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

                                                  -Friedrich Nietzsche

                                                  Usually quoted by enlightened fedora-tipping neckbeards lashing out against their "religious oppresshun," I think this quote is highly applicable, and it somewhat explains the echo-chamber SJW circlejerk on Tumblr these days.

                                                  [–]AkaviriDragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                  Can someone tell me why exactly the comment section is getting invaded? This has been going on in other posts also. OP, you know anything?

                                                  [–]Rezda 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                  Made the front page so all the people who "don't care" about this movement suddenly feel the need to post about how much they don't care rather than refute any points made on the sub or this post lol. Basically everyone is crying

                                                  [–]HappyGerbil88 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  I care about this movement and am very active on this sub. This post has nothing to do with /r/mensrights. If you don't want outsiders commenting on a shitpost like this, then we shouldn't upvote shitposts to the front of /r/all. If we actually upvoted relevant content to /r/all then the tone in this thread would likely be different, but when their only exposure to /r/mensrights is this sad pointless whining about feminism without any relation to men's issues, what do you expect?

                                                  [–]Rezda 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  I think if we are being honest here, post-modern feminism is a big deal for mensrights. The laws that affect us the hardest are usually pushed by pro-feminists groups, and our biggest critics are almost always feminists. Given things like "Male tears" it sounds to me like this has everything to do with /r/mensrights

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                                                    [–]HappyGerbil88 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Because it made /r/all, and a lot of people were confused because a top-voted post on /r/mensrights doesn't actually have anything to do with /r/mensrights. I see a lot of shitposts get upvoted on here, and even worse I see very good and valid discussions without a lot of upvotes, but this is among the worst. If we don't want outsiders from /r/all coming in here and criticizing us, then maybe we shouldn't upvote complete garbage like this to the front page of /r/all. Maybe if posts like these got downvoted, and we had the posts about police brutality or custody or rape or DV getting to the front of /r/all instead, the outsiders would be supportive of our movement instead of criticizing us for pointless whining about feminism. There is a place for anti-feminism within the MRM, but this post is just pathetic.

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                                                      [–]Zankman 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                      So now all feminists are evil and delusional?

                                                      Thinking like this won't get anyone anywhere positive...

                                                      [–]AkaviriDragon 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      I don't see any feminists denouncing this bullshit and the movement is so twisted that at this point the few remaining sane feminists should be destinguishing themselves under a different banner, however I have yet to see any doing so.

                                                      [–]DavidByron2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      If only someone had been around to tell everyone to not worry about the Nazis or the KKK the same way. I'm sure that would have worked out much more "positive" for everyone.

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                                                        [–]SancZero 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                        Saying "No" to feminism ironically makes them so angry they'll verbally attack you.

                                                        [–]AkaviriDragon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Yep. remember big red, and also the meninist prank?

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                                                          [–]babyalpacas 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                          wait how is this men's rights? this is just antifeminism... oh wait..

                                                          [–]redroom101 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          Friend: " if I fight for equal pay for woman, does that make me a feminism? Cause I want them to get paid the same as man, but Im scared people will think im a feminist"

                                                          Me: hit head on wall

                                                          [–]KosmiCate 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                          This is just so wrong... Why do we call those people feminists?? People like her are feminists, not those hypocrites.

                                                          [–]msgallows 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Eh, feminism doesn't have some kind of scriptural dogma or textualism. Feminism simply means a political movement based strictly on the needs and concerns of women. Beyond that it can mean whatever the individual needs of women are. And as it stands the mainstream of feminism is abhorrent. So it follows that "those people" are largely the definition of what it means to be a feminist, with reasonable voices being a select minority.

                                                          After all, Christina Hoff Sommers is a feminist. She is also largely hated by most "feminists."

                                                          [–]SilencingNarrative 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                          The people who say they believe in equality and call themselves feminists still believe in the idea that men as a group took advantage / enslaved women as a group for the bulk of history. In other words, they believe that men are morally inferior to women.

                                                          You can't believe in equality and supremacy at the same time.

                                                          [–]Doom721 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          Trying to make the current generation of people pay for the mistakes or misdoings of the generations before them is just unfair and silly.

                                                          Its so clear if you just treat people equally, and realize they have different needs based on gender.

                                                          [–]msgallows 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Well, it's not always unfair or silly to expect an advantaged social class to give up power.

                                                          Though with gender the power construct has been fluid. Women had the opportunity for social mobility. Whereas her mother may have been disadvantaged, her father might not have been, and so on. There was never the kind of injustice that racial groups faced.

                                                          And it's fucking absurd that feminists make it out like women were, in general, as bad off as a demographic as the American black. Or that the American context is the only context.

                                                          [–]KosmiCate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          That's an interesting point of view. I for myself think that men and women are very different in thinking and acting, and that's what caused and is still causing the disadvantages BOTH sexes have or had. But my point is that hating on each other will only increase the gap... I'm for equal rights (that means the harsh opinions that people on both sides have must change). Not equality, because we just are so different, and that's a good thing.

                                                          [–]SilencingNarrative 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          Do you ever find yourself speaking of the patriarchy?

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                                                              [–]Siiimo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                              This is a completely reductionist post that is in no way helpful. Feminism isn't filled with people threatening things like this any more than MR is filled with it.

                                                              Picking out the stupid people on either side and holding them up as representative of the movement helps nothing.

                                                              [–]Ricwulf 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                              Difference would be who is leading who. Feminists have people like Andrea Dworkin, Sarkeesian, and Lena Dunham who are looked up to, while within their own group, feminists like Christina Hoff Summers are looked down upon by the majority of modern feminists.

                                                              I haven't seen anything resembling that in the MRM, though I will say that I am not full into everything, and just peruse every now and then, so if it does happen, that would be why I don't know about it.

                                                              [–]STARVE_THE_BEAST 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              Let's not forget the illustrious GamerGate troika they've rallied behind as brave heroes.

                                                              There's also The Mad Queen Shandly, practically a feminist icon. Women like Big Red are not crazy outsiders. These bitches have fan clubs.

                                                              [–]STARVE_THE_BEAST 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Also all their comrades-in-arms protecting muh precious narrative at any cost and by any means necessary in the media, academia, on wikipedia, in politics, etc. They're a vicious little cult with ZERO intellectual honesty and integrity.

                                                              [–]copenhannah 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              This speaks volumes I think. I agree that the views of certain women shouldn't be representative of feminism. However, in reality, feminism (like any movement really) is guided by the media. Prominent figures carry weight in their words and WILL be representative because they have a following. If you hold any sort of influence, your views are going to be considered to align with a large portion of society. Women look up to societal figures and emulate their opinions. Whilst the few don't define the many, if those few are media heavyweights then the scales are tipped considerably.

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                                                                [–]DavidByron2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                Explain why feminists lobby for and pass sexist laws then.

                                                                [–]ky_windage 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                                Sooo... let dismiss everything in this post and act like it never happened.

                                                                [–]ronep -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                No, don't dismiss it, but don't claim it's a fair characterization of feminism. It's no better than when people point to the most offensive MRA's and claim that they represent the idea of Men's Rights. Both sides have demons, both sides have legitimate gripes, to demonize either side is unhelpful.

                                                                [–]Hereforthefreecake 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                To be honest, I just lurk both /r/feminism and /r/MensRights and Id say 99% of the people I talk to in the real world have no clue what the "Mens right movement" even is. I honestly don't know a single person I have mentioned this movement to that knew what I was talking about. But almost everyone I know not only knows what feminism is, but has a negative story about feminism. I think socially feminism , good and bad, reaches more people. I think a lot more people can relate to the message OP posted than can relate to "the worst of the MRA's"

                                                                [–]STARVE_THE_BEAST 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                But are their gripes legitimate in terms of the already entitled and privileged western woman?

                                                                [–]ronep 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                There are most definitely still legitimate gripes. Mostly with how socialization of men and women differ. There are tons of studies that show how we raise girls and boys is different, and that those differences ripple through the rest of their lives.

                                                                [–]STARVE_THE_BEAST 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                Socialization differs because our genetic differences are amplified in culture. Trying to consciously counteract that is destructive and unnatural in that it leads to an even more out-of-balance society.

                                                                [–]ronep 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                I mean, if you actually clicked on the study you'd see that the ability of boys and girls to self-regulate differs hugely based on the country they're raised in.

                                                                [–]skabbo 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                This has always been a problem of mine with some facets of Feminist theory in that they perceive differences in how children are raised based on gender as inherently wrong.

                                                                I don't think it is inherently wrong unless one gender is getting completely disadvantaged over another, however this clearly isn't the case so I don't see the point in trying to make the way we raise our children gender neutral.

                                                                [–]Zoltrahn 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                Just because other people have it worse, doesn't mean problems aren't problems. Even us privileged westerners, male or female, face difficult issues. This isn't a zero sum game.

                                                                [–]STARVE_THE_BEAST 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                Yeah but their gripes are primarily about eliminating personal responsibility for the consequences of their actions and getting things they never earned. I don't see how those are valid.

                                                                [–]Zoltrahn 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Then lets argue against those ludicrous ideas. I'm tired of arguing over labels. Having privilege of any kind doesn't negate discrimination you face in another part of your life.

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                                                                    [–]madarapt1 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                    Unfortunately, the whole is equal to the sum of the parts.

                                                                    How many simple discussions have been completely shut down by the radfems on college campuses? Too many, and you damn well know it's true. How many men's groups shut down women only talks? These are not the 'stupid ones' these are the ones who get the most publicity for their radical acts, and as a result, have become a sort of face for feminism.

                                                                    I'd even go so far as to say many mainstream feminists are completely against the idea of rational discussion of differing viewpoints, oftentimes calling into question the other sides sanity, their worth, or their intelligence. Anything that is said bounces off. Completely. What you are left with, then, is a movement that promotes victims perpetuation for the sake of its own growth, and encouragement to complete cooperation or public shaming and harassment.

                                                                    Again, the whole is equal to the sum of the parts.

                                                                    [–]ronep 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Your claim that feminism isn't open enough to dissent is completely different than saying "I don't need feminism because they want me to die."

                                                                    [–]madarapt1 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    It sure is buddy.

                                                                    [–]MrDeanings 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                    Almost every instance of feminism I have encountered has been directly sexist towards men.

                                                                    Even the term Feminism is sexist. It suggests difference, and therefore inequality.

                                                                    We should re-name it - Equalism :)

                                                                    [–]jonnytechno 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    I completely agree, most situations where something is rebraned are a means of shortchanging you, if the aim was equality at the beginning it should have been named as such, by rebranding as feminism there's confusion from both the outside & within as well as the overriding fact that the main goal isn't being achieved

                                                                    Feminism has done a pitiful amount for men that isn't negative, it needs to be recognised for what it is & as mentioned, should be replaced with egalitarianism

                                                                    [–]WaynesCotting 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    The actual word for this is egalitarianism. There's a subreddit for it /r/egalitarianism

                                                                    Their stated purpose is to not value one group over the either (feminism vs. mensrights).

                                                                    Sidebar:

                                                                    Egalitarianism (from French égal, meaning "equal") is a belief of thought that favors equality of some sort. Its general premise is that people should be treated as equals on certain dimensions such as race, gender, religion, ethnicity, political affiliation, economic status, social status, and cultural heritage.

                                                                    Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status. Even /r/MensRights and /r/Feminism.

                                                                    All thoughts and dogmas are welcome here. We ask you remain respectful and simply treat others how you wish to be treated. You may disagree, but that doesn't mean you need to attack the author while attacking the argument.

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                                                                      [–]PatrikPatrik 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      Sounds more like she doesn't need Internet rather than blame it on the pursuit of equality.

                                                                      [–]sunshinetime2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      A-fucking-men

                                                                      [–]jellybean2010 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                      All of this. My only experience with feminism.

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