0
0

Asking Sync0pate to Step Down (self.metanarchism)

The_Mermaid が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

I demodded one of them (Vindalfr) for breaking reddit's rules on doxxing. We should all be doing this. If we don't then the admins will step in and I don't imagine that r/@ will be around for very long. There is zero room for discussion or hesitation on this point. Doxxing is totally unacceptable, whatever the context.

The second one was for the min_thamee thread. I demodded them, removed the thread, and sent them a message asking if we could talk about it and attempt to reach some kind of agreement on the situation.

I also reached out in mod chat to the other moderators and the other people who wanted min_thamee banned, to see if they wanted to discuss it.

At the moment, we can't have this discussion genuinely because everyone is too afraid to express their opinion for fear of being banned if they disagree, this has already happened to a ton of people.

I think it's a shame that this is all kicking off while we are trying to work together on some changes to moderation that are many times more important, and I hope that we can at least put this aside until that has been worked out, because I believe it can be of huge benefit not only to /r/anarchism , but to much of reddit.

[–]flaxrabbit [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Doxxing is a separate issue. I support doxxing in certain circumstances and contexts. There has to be room here, because I don't agree with your stance at all. I also don't care about reddit rules anywhere near as much as I care about fighting fascism. There are certain contexts where if doxxing happened I would do everything in my power to make sure it stays up, and some contexts where I would actively promote it. I was clear about this in the thread that nominated me for mod.

As for discussion, we were discussing and you interfered with that. This is all "kicking off", because you decided that your point of view was correct and everyone else was wrong. In all of Min_thamee's ban threads a majority have voted to ban him. Now, of course our standard is not majority rules, but it is certainly indicative that Min_thamee is hugely controversial and repeated attempts to deal with him are inevitable.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

There has to be room here, because I don't agree with your stance at all. I also don't care about reddit rules anywhere near as much as I care about fighting fascism. There are certain contexts where if doxxing happened I would do everything in my power to make sure it stays up, and some contexts where I would actively promote it.

Then we won't have a subreddit. I'd maybe agree with this, on other sites, but we can't do it here. If you say you are going to promote it and leave it up here then I will have to remove you as a moderator..

[–]flaxrabbit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm saying there exists circumstances where I would leave dox and promote it. Of course in most cases it would not make sense to put it on reddit, because it would piss off the admins more than any good it would do. There are some circumstances, such as the Stratfor leak, that I would treat otherwise.

Another example might be Justine Tunney's reddit account. She was called out many times, and people pointed out who she was. That was a type of dox. I support calling Justine Tunney out, because she has said some pretty wild shit that affects a lot of anarchists.

So, demod me if you must. I'm just stating that the issue isn't as black and white.

I should also note that I've spoken publicly about my support of calling out fascists and how I think Reddit enables fascist organizing in public with Reddit admins in the audience. So, I guess I'm saying it is who I am, and I can't really change that.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, that's cool. I agree. We just can't leave doxxing on here or say that we are going to.

I also think it's tragic that reddit is such a great platform for fascists, not to mention the endemic racism, misogyny and homophobia.

I'm hoping we can do something to clear that up, in some subreddits at least.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Flaxrabbit is allowed to express an opinion. As long as they never dox anyone, I don't mind them expressing an opinion on the issue.

And again, this is what I'm talking about. "Agree with me or get demodded."

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Agree with me or get demodded.

Agree with the reddit admins or get demodded. I don't know how much clearer I can make it that this has nothing to do with my personal views on the subject.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People can still express opinions, as long as they don't dox anyone or support doxxing.

But that's not the thing I have an issue with. My complaint is the fact that you demodded Enkara. She didn't violate any site rules.

[–]lilit_ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Where do they say you need to demon someone immediately for doing?

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I was banned by the admins for accidentally allowing it before, and they informed me in no uncertain terms that anyone who isn't willing to enforce the rules of reddit shouldn't be a moderator.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

I don't have anything against you personally, I just think you are being too authoritarian towards the rest of the mods. I feel like my hands are tied, and I'm sure the rest of us feel the same way. You've been a mod for 4 years, and you should probably stay a mod, but I don't think you should be the top mod anymore, because you are abusing it.

I don't know much about the Vindalfr situation, but again, there was no discussion, you just demodded him. If he legitimately doxxed someone, I don't blame you. That being said, there was no excuse to demod Enkara.

I have a counter-proposal: You asked us to lay off of Min_Thamee for a while in return for Enkara being reinstated, which I actually already did. If you agree to step down and serve as a lower level mod, I'll be happy to give Min_Thamee another chance.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

If you agree to step down and serve as a lower level mod, I'll be happy to give Min_Thamee another chance.

The problem with a trade like that is either you believe Min deserves a ban or you don't. If you are willing to trade your belief for something you want then you are kind of implying that meta process doesn't matter as much to you as getting something you want.

I mean, if Sync doesn't agree to step down are you suddenly not willing to give Min another chance? And what really changed there? Nothing Min did or didn't do. Just that in one case you didn't get a bargain you wanted.

[–]zolfe [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It reads a lot like a play for power.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

How so? I'm not going to be the top mod.

[–]zolfe [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You don't need to be the top mod for it to be a power play in my opinion. Even without taking the position of top mod yourself it would result in the increase of power to yourself because you would likely not have someone above you that would go against your actions (which sync0pate doesn't seem to do that often to be honest).

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm not really following that to be honest. I don't care if there are 2 mods or 20 mods above me. What I care about is that most of the mods, and most of the community, have one set of ideas for how to improve it. Syncopate has another. But because he's the top mod, he makes the final decision, and he's been abusing that top spot lately.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I will clarify. Syncopate asked us to lay off of min_thamee. And all of Syncopate's recent actions were related to Min_Thamee. So I offered that we could try to work something out with Min, but Syncopate should step down and stop fighting Min's battles.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This doesn't appear to me to be fighting Min's battles.

Why would you try to "work something out with Min" if you feel that the community has decided to ban them? If the community speaks for something that should be how it goes. They aren't chips for bartering.

[–]zolfe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I just think you are being too authoritarian towards the rest of the mods.

The irony of an r/anarchism mod using the "you're authoritarian" argument in this situation is hilarious.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I don't know much about the Vindalfr situation, but again, there was no discussion, you just demodded him. If he legitimately doxxed someone, I don't blame you.

It was unfortunate, he quoted someone else that included personal information. It was hardly malicious on his part, but we don't have any breathing room on this. Honestly, I'd prefer if it hadn't happened.

I'm not voluntarily stepping down right now, I want to work on the other things we've been talking about. When I do step down, there's no way in hell I'm going to continue moderating.. it's hardly fun.

Oh, and also, don't worry, I don't take any of this personally. On a personal level I have absolutely no problem with you either and I hope we can continue working together on some stuff.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Will you voluntarily step down if the majority want you to?

Here's how I see it. Most of the mods have one set of ideas of how to improve the subreddit. You have a different set of ideas that conflict with ours. But because you are the top mod, we can't implement the types of changes that we want, which have a lot of community support.

I'm not sure why you're reluctant to give up the top spot.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Most of the mods have one set of ideas of how to improve the subreddit. You have a different set of ideas that conflict with ours.

They're not my ideas, I try as much as I can to keep my personal bias out of it. Obviously it's impossible to do perfectly, but I try.

The problem is that there is a group of moderators who want to make a set of changes -these changes are often at odds with what I perceive that the community wants, and through steadily banning everyone that disagrees, the group of mods is exercising more and more influence.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

It's hard to know what the community wants when you start deleting threads.

This thread will show how the community feels. I'm hoping that if a majority support you stepping down, you are willing to do so.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

When I start deleting threads? The same thread had been posted so many times, by this point it was spam.

[–]sync0pate [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm hoping that if a majority support you stepping down, you are willing to do so.

No, probably not at the moment.

I am very keen to see what people have to say about it though, so who knows.

[–]The_Mermaid[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is what I have a serious issue with. You are refusing to consider giving up the top spot even if the majority want you to do so. That means that you've probably been a mod for too long and it's time to give up the top position. If you refuse to step down after the majority support you doing so, that's unacceptable.