7
8

Stepping down (self.metanarchism)

Capn_Blackbeard が 投稿

It's just not worth it. I am tired of catching shit for banning people and then catching more shit for not banning people.

I'm also tired of being held to bullshit standards. Apparently, anyone can say any old shitty thing to a mod they want but if we reply in kind, we should have our mod privileges taken away for "abuse of power". I never banned someone for being rude to me. There are people on here I can't stand but I didn't ban any of them. Calling an someone an asshole after they called you an asshole isn't a "privilege" that should be revoked once you become a moderator.

If you think mods should stay out of conversations and only be mods then just admit what you want: subreddit cops. You want us to be outside the community looking in and acting accordingly. That doesn't appeal to me and it certainly shouldn't appeal to you.

I am tired of people claiming that if something isn't a violation of rules then it should be....but they do nothing whatsoever to act on this.

It isn't the job of mods to start every single meta thread. You aren't powerless. Start a thread if you think change needs to happen. If this is a community (and not just a vitriolic shithole for people to vent their spleens) then people in the community need to get involved. Mods aren't your parents. We aren't gods. We aren't cops or legislators (and it disturbs the hell out of me that some people want us to be some combination of those) It isn't our job to fix everything for you. Everyone on here seems to want to complain and nobody wants to actually do anything to change things.

Meta isn't some secret place only accessible via the fucking Hogwarts Express. People don't come here and get involved because they don't want to get involved not because we make things too complex. They still want to complain though. Which is nice. :/

We get attacked for being powermad fascists 50% of the time but also for not being godlike enough to fix everything in the exact right way at the exact right time the other 50%.

Make up your mind: do you want mods to carry out the will of the community (in which case you have to step the fuck up and create threads for getting community consensus) or do you want cops who act on their own volition?

I don't want to be a cop but it seems like that's what half of you want us to be.

Fuck it. I'm done.

Edit: Anarchism works (when it works) only when the people of the community all chip in to make things better. I didn't realize when I accepted modship that what I was applicably doing was becoming a proxy for everyone. I take all of the shit on their behalf as well as take on the burden of fixing everything wrong so everyone else can sit back and criticize.

I don't want to play cop and that's what being a mod on /r/anarchism seemed to be. Maybe the mistake was mine in not realizing that is what the job entailed.

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[–]Egotisticallama 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Good. Now I can call you an asshole and not feel oppressed when you return the insult.

ButSeriouslyyoureanasshatforleaving.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

:)

[–]-Enkara- 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

:'-(

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks. I really wanted to try and make this place better but the battle is just too Sisyphean.

I thought being a mod meant the community would hash out what they wanted and we were applicably just button pushers. We just carry it out is all. But it turns out, a large percentage want us to unilaterally make decisions on their behalf and do what we think is right. I didn't sign on for that and it doesn't appeal to me.

Playing cop does bad things to your soul (I mean that metaphorically, I'm not a religious person) and that's not who I want to be.

[–]grapesandmilk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Good.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've missed you.

You're such a bright ray of sunshine.

[–]grapesandmilk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wooooohooooo!

[–]flaxrabbit 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry to hear this, but I hope stepping down as moderator gives you some relief. We have talked briefly about setting up some fun projects to make r/@ better, and if you are still interested in those just PM me if you need anything implemented.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can help out with the calendar if you want to give me access.

Other than that, it seems like for a brief shining moment people were using meta to try and hammer out actual policy to make this place run better...and then it turned back into a shitshow where people just lob grenades at each other and try to get each other banned.

[–]Vindalfr 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

This is unfortunate.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

This kind of bullshit tone policing just further cements my decision for me.

Anyone who thinks mods "should" behave in some prescribed "moral" fashion honestly just want a CopParent to be their leader. No thanks.

[–]-Enkara- 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yah that's gross...

Good on you for putting your well being ahead of ridiculous meta drama though.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I wish people actually cared about cleaning up the drama but the fact that nobody has been able to make any real headway (and that now two mods have stepped down because of all this bullshit) makes me think the community doesn't actually want things to be better. They actually like it being combative, vitriolic, and just generally messy and pointless.

[–]-Enkara- 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah...

I am totally one of those misanthropic fuckers, I've put lots of effort into being nice-ish and not telling folks to choke on glass while mod.

The self-censorship is the worst part of the job really.

I've honestly not seen an Anarchist space without drama, this feels normal to me after accounting for the fact that people are way more fucked up online by default.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't like the perception that self-censorship should even be part of the job. Mods are people. Regular people. Not better. Not superior. Certainly not moral ideals.

What kind of anarchist space wants a vertical hierarchy where some people are supposed to be "better" than everyone else? It's just weird.

[–]Vindalfr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nobody's given enough of a shit about this place for a long time. All kinds of calls to "fix it" but no tolerance whatsoever for what that actually entails.

At least I won't have to turn down my next mod nomination.

[–]Potss -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (36子コメント)

Calling an someone an asshole after they called you an asshole isn't a "privilege" that should be revoked once you become a moderator.

Ummm no, we just call that maturity (and professionalism). Its an expectation that comes with authority. I am shocked that you are unable to see this.

I agree in your characterization of a the mod job as being a sort of cop. I would also agree that you are not cut out for it if you cannot take the abuse leveled at such figures, and desire to step down to their level and call them names.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Ummm no, we just call that maturity (and professionalism). Its an expectation that comes with authority. I am shocked that you are unable to see this.

I'm shocked that you think mods should be "authority". They shouldn't.

I would also agree that you are not cut out for it if you cannot take the abuse leveled at such figures, and desire to step down to their level and call them names.

Don't condescend towards me by tone policing.

If I think someone is being an asshole, I will call them an asshole. Mods are people and shouldn't be put on some bullshit moral pedestal. It's like saying actors shouldn't be allowed to have political opinions and should just stick to their day jobs.

[–]Potss 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (22子コメント)

I'm not condescending, I'm pointing out the obvious.

If I think someone is being an asshole, I will call them an asshole.

Right so inability to control your emotions, or reason properly, or be cordial and productive in a conversation. Got it.

Mods are people and shouldn't be put on some bullshit moral pedestal. I'm shocked that you think mods should be "authority".

I'm still shocked you fail to comprehend that by the definition of the position mods are in authority (on this site at the very least). So from that point, the decision is rather what kind of representative would a community like to have. Obviously a mature, competent, and professional one.

Your response reeks of self-serving, half-baked, reactionary despondency. Save us your martyrs speech, its clear that you are not suited for the job.

[–]2PacksADay 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Right so inability to control your emotions, or reason properly, or be cordial and productive in a conversation.

Self-awareness: Zero. You do realize you're the one getting incredibly butthurt because someone was mean to you on the internet?

I'm still shocked you fail to comprehend that by the definition of the position mods are in authority

Do you know what subreddit you're in? Why on earth would we want mods flair their "authority" and act like they're some kind of superior class of redditors. If we must have mods, I'd rather they act like us--as like-minded members of a community who can be themselves.

Your response reeks of self-serving, half-baked, reactionary despondency. Save us your martyrs speech

tips fedora

[–]Potss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

NO one is advocating for having mods act in a "superior" manner. You clearly do not understand what is being discussed.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I'm not condescending, I'm pointing out the obvious.

Right so inability to control your emotions, or reason properly, or be cordial and productive in a conversation.

I honestly want you to reread those two statements and tell me they reconcile in your head.

"I'm not being condescending I'm just saying that if you don't behave in they way I think you ought to then I am going to say you are devoid of reason and self-control"

Yeah....no condescension there at all.

It's like you want me to call you an asshole. ;)

I'm still shocked you fail to comprehend that by the definition of the position mods are in authority (on this site at the very least).

No, they really aren't. If they were then there would be no need for meta. There would be no transparency threads. There would be no accountability.

Obviously a mature, competent, and professional one.

More of that "not being condescending" thing, right?

Your response reeks of self-serving, half-baked, reactionary despondency. Save us your martyrs speech, its clear that you are not suited for the job.

See above comments. And fuck yourself on the way out. :)

[–]Potss 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Your inability to comprehend even the simplest concepts just further proves that your tenure as a mod couldn't end soon enough.

First of all, I correctly classified your actions based on a certain social view, which everyone does. Everyone's will be different, but there is no ultimate objective one. Mine may differ from yours, but mine is clearly more refined and well thought out (morally and otherwise) which is why I made the "half-baked" statement. In other words definitions change from culture, society, person etc, and of course I will argue mine and you yours, and depending upon the community and their aggregate values one will be closer and further from a consensus mark for what its worth.

Second, your have committed a logical fallacy here, which again further proves your inability to reason in a logical fashion. Just because there is meta and transparency, doesn't mean that Mods do not hold a position of authority, or that we would want these representatives to be held to an agreeable standard (ie, one higher than your admittedly very low one). Your conflating of these two facts is disheartening to say the least.

It's like you want me to call you an asshole.

Well of course I do, it proves my point about you.

And fuck yourself

Thanks I appreciate you doing my work for me.

All in all, my comments and observations about you and your conduct stand. Seeing as this is about you stepping down, it will be you "on the way out."

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Your inability to comprehend even the simplest concepts just further proves that your tenure as a mod couldn't end soon enough.

LOL. Wow. You really are an asshole.

First of all, I correctly arrogantly classified your actions based on a certain social view my perception of what is proper, which everyone does.

FTFY

Just because there is meta and transparency, doesn't mean that Mods do not hold a position of authority, or that we would want these representatives to be held to an agreeable standard (ie, one higher than your admittedly very low one). Your conflating of these two facts is disheartening to say the least.

You really are a dumbfuck.

Let's look at a definition shall we?

the power to determine, adjudicate, or otherwise settle issues or disputes; jurisdiction; the right to control, command, or determine.

Mods don't do this. They don't step in and "settle disputes". They aren't your parents and it is pathetic that you expect them to be that.

The way things work here is that the community defines the AOP and unilateral bans are only based on that. Anyone can create a ban thread and mods execute what the community decides. There is no "authority" just a few elected people with keys to the box with the "ban this person" button.

All in all, my comments and observations about you and your conduct stand. Seeing as this is about you stepping down, it will be you "on the way out."

I'll bet that felt like a real "burn" in your head. Good job!

Your work is complete. I hereby remove the crown of "biggest condescending asshole" from reaganveg and place it upon your brow.

[–]boilerpunx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you haven't given up mod powers already, I don't think anyone would mind if you banned them on the way out.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you listen really carefully, you can hear the monocle pop out of /u/Potss eye and their tea cup rattle in the saucer when they read the part where I called them a "dumbfuck".

Shocking! Positively shocking!

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I've already given them up.

But feel free to start a thread. That was kind of my point. Everyone has the power to change the place.

[–]boilerpunx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

True. But they haven't reached quite reagan levels of asshole yet, but in some time, perhaps. I was mostly joking though, mostly.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mostly ;)

[–]Potss 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I find it hilarious that you ignored all parts of my comment you couldn't contend with. I'll just assume that they are then true. Well I"ll be honest actually, since your rebuttal was so pathetic, I'll assume all of my comments were in fact correct. I will at least give you the courtesy of further explanation as to why you are so very wrong and misguided.

Your strawman here shows how little you have actually been able to understand of my statements, and I wont waste my time. Your fallacies discredit anything you state regardless. For fun I'll walk you through just a bit of said fallacy however, because no doubt you've missed it.

Your statements in fact prove mine, which if you had the ability to take thoughts to their logical conclusion, you would have known. The very definition you refer too, and the community standards, are exactly what I've been referring too. You are a representative of the community, and are guided by the rules it sets. That doesn't make you any less of an authority in the same sense that an elected sheriff is an authority. Again this is quite clear from the statements I've made, but somehow you've managed to get them horridly wrong (no surprise there).

Seriously. Go fuck yourself.

See this is what I mean. At the core of it if you could somehow raise a defense that was logical and not riddled with fallacies that would be one thing, but instead you offer only insults. That is the core of the problem and why direct slanders are looked down upon. They often take the place of actual arguments and discussions, which you have again proved here.

I didn't have any work here to being with, I just wanted to point out some obvious facts, which you have helped me do. It is truly disheartening that ignorant, anti-intellectual, petulant little children such as yourself get to run amuck here.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I find it hilarious that you ignored all parts of my comment you couldn't contend with.

You seem to find lots of things hilarious. Me too. For instance, I find it hilarious that you think you are better than other people.

Well I"ll be honest actually, since your rebuttal was so pathetic, I'll assume all of my comments were in fact correct.

You were going to do that anyone since you seem to live in an echo chamber of you and you.

Your strawman here shows how little you have actually been able to understand of my statements, and I wont waste my time.

And yet here you are...typing three more paragraphs.

Your fallacies discredit anything you state regardless.

I used actual definitions and you used condescension. Yep, clearly I used fallacies.

Your statements in fact prove mine, which if you had the ability to take thoughts to their logical conclusion, you would have known.

LOL. Not at all but sure. Enlighten me.

The very definition you refer too, and the community standards, are exactly what I've been referring too. You are a representative of the community, and are guided by the rules it sets.

There you go, fucknuts. GUIDED BY THE RULES IT SEES which means mods aren't authorities. They are mere extensions of the community.

Fuck you are dense.

At the core of it if you could somehow raise a defense that was logical and not riddled with fallacies that would be one thing, but instead you offer only insults.

What is that like insult number 53 from you but you are still gonna get on that high horse, aren't you?

OK. Fuck yourself some more. Or don't. I don't care.

It is truly disheartening that ignorant, anti-intellectual, petulant little children such as yourself get to run amuck here.

So now ageism is added to your condescending name calling? You really are pathetic. You are an authoritarian high handed asshole.

[–]Potss -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

So you admit you know next to nothing about arguing, and would rather hurl insults and maintain logical fallacies than learn or discuss. NOW my work here is done.

[–]flaxrabbit 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I bet you're fun at parties.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I get it. You're an authoritarian asshole. It's cool. You don't have to keep proving it.

[–]2PacksADay 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Le strawman!!!!!!

[–]Potss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You are right, /u/Capn_Blackbeard was strawmanning quite badly...

[–]2PacksADay 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

/r/iamverysmart

I hope you know that you don't sound nearly as intelligent as you think you do. It's quite cringeworthy.

[–]Potss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't think I sound intelligent at all, I think I sound normal. You and your ilk just sound bellow normal.

[–]boilerpunx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Wow, being a mod is a profession? How much are they getting paid?

[–]Potss 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Its not about getting paid obviously (although some clearly do earn from their positions, not here though) its about conduction ones self in a manor suiting the position.

[–]boilerpunx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's not that lofty a position. You can't expect professionalism from a minimum wage worker, it's just asinine to think that you can. And this is a volunteer position, who cares if they curse someone out, some people deserve it. If you think they're abusing their powers, check the spam filter of the transparency page.

[–]Potss 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I never said abusing power, I said I'd prefer a power wielding representative (which in this community the mods basically are) to display more maturity and cognition than this one does.

Its not an expectation that is born out of some worship of authority, but one born out of respect for this community...

[–]boilerpunx 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think you're just being a demanding asshole. Guess since I'm not a mod it's fine for me to say that.

[–]Potss 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its fine for anyone to say anything, but just like everything else it will have consequences and effects. I have obviously already expressed in exact terms why I think the way I do, and now you have done so too.

The difference is that while mine is based upon reason and logic, yours is a feeling based on ignorance and misinterpretation. The consequences are of course obvious.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its fine for anyone to say anything, but just like everything else it will have consequences and effects.

But here's the thing: no it doesn't. Nobody gets chastised for language except mods. Mods can, and do, get threatened with being demodded for not being "civil" enough.

Mostly by self-important authoritarian assholes like you, but still.

The difference is that while mine is based upon reason and logic, yours is a feeling based on ignorance and misinterpretation.

Seriously. Go fuck yourself.

Your condescension is mindblowing. Your's isn't based on "reason and logic" it is based on your arbitrary standards of "civil" behavior. This isn't church. You don't get to tell people they can't use bad language.

The consequences are of course obvious.

That everyone will know you're an asshole?

[–]boilerpunx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reason and logic ate most often code for, my particular brand of reason, and what I determine to be logical.

[–]2PacksADay 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

about conduction ones self in a manor suiting the position.

Yes, and we're talking about a voluntary moderator on an internet forum. Your expectations are not realistic. The internet must be very difficult for you when your feelings get hurt this easily.

Personally, I'd prefer anarchist mods to act like fucking people instead of robot-watch dogs.

[–]Potss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is beyond clear that you have not the slightest clue what I am referring too, but it is humorous how badly you've managed to misrepresent my statements.

The point is that mods should be looking to encourage discussions and represent the community well, not ad-hominem and close-mindedly bash anything that doesn't fit their narrow opinions. This should be more than obvious.

[–]LU_sheehan_clan [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Our downvote button is a middle finger. I'll get over a mod calling someone an asshole like any other user would.

[–]Potss [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You are missing the point. Its about constructive discussion, which ad-hominem and general name calling gets in the way of. Too often these things are a poor substitute for substance, rather than an accentuate-er. It when used in this way, which the OP clearly does and wants too, it tends to have a very negative effect on overall quality.

[–]The_Mermaid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's sad to see mods leaving, since you were doing a good job, but I definitely understand why you want to.

I've thought about it myself, but I decided against it. I was nominated as a mod because many felt I would make this place less misogynist. Which I feel I have, and I could be doing more if it wasn't for a small group of misogynists on Meta who get in the way of that.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I understand. I was torn about it. Of course I worried "if I step down does that mean the assholes win?" but the truth is I really profoundly don't like what the job entails. I don't want to be a cop. I don't want any semblance of power over other people. It's bad for the psyche.

[–]The_Mermaid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That definitely makes sense, I don't blame you for stepping down.

Personally, I'm adopting the stance that I'm going to step up my anti-misogynist efforts. If someone doesn't like that, they can start a demodding thread. I doubt it will pass, but if I would ever get demodded for being "too feminist," then I will willingly step down.

[–]_permafrost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks for being awesome Capn, hopefully the high seas of the internet will be a more enjoyable place for you. I also feel partially responsible for this meltdown because I nominated you initially, and diminished my own activity because of life and because I felt everyone was doing a much better job. So I just wanted to say thanks.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the nom. It just wasn't what I had hoped it would be. That happens. :)

Thanks for the kinds words.

[–]sync0pate -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Take some time off, you know things are going to be changing around here re: moderation - I hope you'll be involved in that process, and maybe you'll want to come back when we're done with that.

Hopefully we can make moderation better here, and maybe even across large parts of reddit.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would love to still be involved in fixing things because I really think this whole community is worth the effort. I'm just tired of trying to roll a boulder uphill while various angry factions with personal agendas keep stabbing me making the job even harder.

[–]Throwtherockback -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good.

[–]exiledarizona -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Come on! You were cool!

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thanks :)

[–]exiledarizona -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If it makes you feel better it could be a lot worse. On another board I moderate (for a neighborhood) the stakes are such that multiple moderators have been threatened and confronted in real life.

Since peoples real names are attached and we allow political debate and radical ideas there's a strict don't treat people like shit no matter who you are. This of course makes us the target of pretty much every political group you could imagine from left to right. So yeah, I hear you on this sort of stuff.

There's always people who will line up to defend someone even when their in the wrong. Right now, theres a dude who repeatedly insults people and treats others like shit. He isn't white so tbh we sort of let it slide. And this time he got banned. So now it's just waiting for the shitstorm as always.

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Navigating the various factions is the worst part of the job. Knowing that if someone should be banned for something five other people are guilty of then logically those five other people should be, too....but then politics. Eh. Not for me.

[–]Hannibal_Lecturer -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry to see you go. http://i.imgur.com/tjHGNpf.jpg

[–]Capn_Blackbeard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty much that exactly!

Thanks for the kind words.