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[–]Grizzly_Adamz 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Can someone ELI5 how they come up with that number but how "it goes away" after accounting for job choice etc.? The way the claim is usually presented makes it sound like employers have a chart and if the interviewee is a woman they automatically offer her less. How does career decision affect what the average pay gap would be? Aren't we comparing engineers to engineers and truck drivers to truck drivers? How does the fact that women make up a minority of the engineering workforce for example affect the pay gap? If women are (or are not) making the same amount as men in their respective fields how does the rest of these factors people here have mentioned apply?

[–]chaz345 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Aren't we comparing engineers to engineers and truck drivers to truck drivers?

No the 77 cents per dollar simply compares the median salary of all working women to the median salary of all working men.

[–]DrZoidberg26 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So if we take Bill Gates and Warren Buffet out of the equation its equal?

[–]chaz345 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not exactly. But if we look two people, one male one female, doing the same job for the same company with the same education and experience, the pay is very nearly equal. There's like a less than 2 cent difference.

[–]DrZoidberg26 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh yeah I totally understand. I was just saying that the vast majority of the rishest people in america are men. Those outliers can screw the whole thing up if the study is literally just the overall average of salaries for men and women.

[–]chaz345 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except that it's median, not average. The outliers don't affect that number nearly as much.

[–]Arakin 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Basically it comes down to men are more willing to negotiate salaries, work more dangerous jobs with hazard pay and go into positions like doctors, engineers, positions of authority, computer programming etc. as well as work 44 hours a week on average, work more overtime etc. etc.

If women really only had to be paid 77 cents for the same work, why would any employer ever hire men? See Milton Friedman.

And yes, when you compare everything equal job vs job experience vs experience etc., very often women come up on top making more than men. But it is men's, as a whole, career and life choices that make the overall average men earning more than women.

[–]elusiveoddity 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If women really only had to be paid 77 cents for the same work, why would any employer ever hire men? See Milton Friedman.

Perceived quality of work, much like the difference between a 4 blade razor and a 1 blade disposable razor. They both do the same job, but why then are the more expensive razors the preferred ones?

[–]Arakin -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Then no one would ever hire women if this were the pervasive mentality. But it's not.

So someone hires a woman, and pays her 77 cents on the dollar, and realizes that the woman is doing just as good a job, if not a better job, than the man. So he fires the men and hires women.

Walmart employs 1.4 million workers, doing primarily brainless jobs that anyone could do. Do you have any idea what kind of money they would save if they were able to cut their pay by 23% each year? The quality of their service wouldn't go anywhere, as Walmart already employs tons of women at their locations, and they'd save countless millions.

Your little 'theory' works in theory, but not when you apply it to the real world.

[–]elusiveoddity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Emphasis on perceived. Let's go back to the 60's and look at the prevailing mentality towards woman workers - i.e. she's just looking for a husband, she'll leave as soon as she's a mother, she doesn't have the head for numbers, etc. if I think my $4 razor gives me a close cut shave in one swipe and 10 seconds, but if I think my $1 razor gives me a close cut shave in 3 swipes, but at a greater risk of cutting myself and giving embarrassing bloodmarks on my chin, and is done in 60 seconds, a number of folks will choose the former over the later. Same issue with women. Perceived quality. And there are folks now who still think that women should be in the kitchen and not in the workforce.

Re: Walmart: It's illegal to pay 77% of minimum wage.

[–]Arakin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

All it takes is a simple comparison between the Mach 3 and the disposable for you to make up your mind. All it takes is hiring some women to make up your mind. What you're saying is that regardless of years of women in the work force, society at large, especially employers, still believe, against all evidence of women in the workplace, that women are inferior workers to men in all regards. Do you even have a fucking clue what you're saying?

[–]elusiveoddity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Chill. I'm not saying that. If I need to wave my "I'm a chick" card to convince you I'm not being some dudebro screaming "women are inferior" then I will.

I just personally hate the argument that "Well, if women are cheaper then why aren't we hiring all women". It's stupid because even in real life, we don't make decisions on hiring/purchasing/contracting based upon the cheapest option. There's a strong correlation between perceived quality and the $$ associated. perhaps a more appropriate comparison would be to look at all the disposable razors on offer and thinking that the $4 one is going to be better than the $1. A simple Google search for "Price Quality Correlation" will result in multitudes of studies that show this to be true.

Regardless, the original statement of $1 men = $0.77 women is complex and nuanced and well commented that it isn't for one job but across all jobs with various requirements and pay scales. So the actual statement of "it's cheaper to hire women" is also inaccurate and completely dismissing the other complexities that make up the original claim.

[–]lbspredh 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aren't we comparing engineers to engineers and truck drivers to truck drivers?

short answer is no, if you compare exact jobs you are going to end up with so many different types of data that it becomes impossible to draw a meaningful conclusion from it, at some point for these studies to give an answer a decision is made about which jobs are worth the same amount. Therein lies the flaw.

that's not to say the results are wrong just that the evidence for the wage gap isn't as reliable or simplistic as people claim.

[–]_Eggs_[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The statistic doesn't even compare field to field. It's just the average income of men and women. It's severely misleading.