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2923: Opening Up (questionablecontent.net)

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[–]ThisTemporaryLife 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (38子コメント)

I don't know what it is, but her acknowledging the play-by-play of how far she's fallen feels like a massive breakthrough. We know that she knows where she's gone wrong, but this, to me at least, feels like a deeply personal moment that she's decided is necessary to share with the group.

Good for her. It's a great first step - more than just going to the group, even. Instead of being an observer, she'd made the effort to put herself into that world, which is fantastic.

[–]h-ayscough -19 ポイント-18 ポイント  (37子コメント)

Too bad she had to articulate it in tired cliches

[–]ThisTemporaryLife 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Which cliches are those? All I'm seeing is her expressing how she feels.

[–]LpSamuelm 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The "I'm a coward" thing is a bit of a cliché, I suppose.

[–]mick4state 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's almost like cliches get tired for a reason.

[–]Jamaauwright 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem about things like that becoming cliche is that there's only so many ways to articulate the same thing. Just saying the things that she did wouldn't be the same admission of personal responsibility, it would just be an admission of past actions. "I'm a coward" inserts personal responsibility into the situation, and acknowledges the problem at hand.

[–]ThisTemporaryLife 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, I guess, but at the same time it's a little silly to call it a cliche, considering she has used alcohol as a way to deal with her problems for ages. Her feeling like that makes her a coward, especially at the tail end of an alcohol-fueled downward spiral, isn't really out of nowhere.

[–]h-ayscough -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (18子コメント)

"A good man", "numb the pain", "kill for a drink" are all cliches. And the first one is so far outside of how Faye would describe Angus, I actually did a double take reading it.

[–]Kaneharo 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Cliches aren't simply two or three word phrases. If they were, everything but modern slang and ridiculously large words for a normal conversation would be cliche at this point.

[–]h-ayscough -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Sure they are. Look at any list of cliches and most are two or three words. My point is, these are cliches terms for a character to use to describe drinking or their will to drink. We've heard them 1000 times before, and they don't offer anything insightful about the character. Again, just lazy writing.

[–]HarbingerGunner 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

But people talk in cliches all the time. In every day speak people use those phrases to describe that sort of situation

[–]h-ayscough -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Ok -- its still weak writing. That's my only point. Would have been nice to see something original.

[–]Kaneharo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

And what are you saying she should have used?

[–]h-ayscough -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Something that doesn't make her a walking AA regret stereotype

[–]FeenieVonKarma 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think the best way I saw them described was "Cliches are just oft-repeated truths" or something. (Forgive the flowery dialogue, it was from a fantasy book, lol)

[–]h-ayscough -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

A cliche is a term or expression that has been overused to the point where it's lost it's meaning or its effect. See the examples I gave above. "Numb the pain" is an especially good example of this

[–]LovisTheWise 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Pain is an unpleasant sensation. Numbness can be an alleviation of that unpleasantness. Numb the pain is simply a sentence, verbing a noun.

[–]h-ayscough 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"A dead horse" is a noun preceded by an adjective. "Beating" is a verb describe an action you can do to said noun.

What's your point?

[–]LovisTheWise 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your standards for cliché leave little left for normal speech. If oft repeated, non-metaphorical statements such as "numbing the pain" are clichés, where is the line drawn for non-clichéd speech?

[–]h-ayscough 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no "arbiter of cliches" so not sure how to answer your question. If you're asserting that cliches can only be metaphorical and cannot use common language, I would disagree

[–]JonSnowsGhost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Except that neither of those phrases have lost their meaning or effect.
In fact, one could argue the opposite because they are cliches. We've see a lot of characters in a lot of mediums need to numb their pain with alcohol, so even though Faye might not be as fleshed out as they were, we can still sympathize with her because so many characters (and even real people) have described it that way.
Same with beating a dead horse. The nice thing about cliches like that is the vast majority of people will understand what is meant by them, so they can quickly convey information.

[–]h-ayscough -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

quickly convey information

Yes, that's what I meant by laziness.

[–]h2078 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

i have to admit the "good man" comment seemed a little un faye like but i think we're still going through some growing pains with the lack of dialogue.

also faye seems to have perma resting bitchface now

[–]h-ayscough -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Jeph has been writing Faye for over 10 years, and should know how she would speak and how she wouldn't (this is more monologue than dialogue, anyhow). It's more an indication of lazy writing. "What's the way everyone describes why alcoholics drink? Ah yes, to 'numb the pain'. What's that way that everyone describes how badly they want something? Ah yes, 'kill for a drink'."

[–]JonSnowsGhost 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, and there's a reason they talk that way: because that's how they feel.
I know what it's like to drink to "numb the pain." I know people who have been at a point in their life where they would "kill for a drink." Those phrases are used so often because they very quickly and easily can convey the requisite information to understand what the character is going through.

Why don't you come up with a similar amount of dialogue and see how much information and emotion you can portray without cliches? You'll probably see there's a reason a lot of people use them.

[–]h-ayscough -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's commonly understood that "good" writing avoids cliches.

[–]TotesMessenger 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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