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OtherWe are Jameel Jaffer of the ACLU, Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, and Lila Tretikov, executive director of the Wikimedia Foundation - and we are suing the NSA over its mass surveillance of the international communications of millions of innocent people. AUA. (self.IAmA)

JameelJafferJameel Jaffer が 投稿x4

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[–]jimmywales1Jimmy Wales -318 ポイント-317 ポイント x2 (432子コメント)

The subreddit about gamergate is somewhere else, my friend.

[–]KamenRiderJ 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why are there so many wiki editors that took ownership of topics for themselves, evade disciplinary actions and still have their privileges not taken? Some of them are known to have help of wiki admins to evade any punishment.

Is it possible that some wiki editors are paid or have some kind of compensation to protect and/or whitewash certain topics? This was brought to your attention numerous times, could also be possible you turn a blind eye to these specific groups because you benefit from it somehow?

For example, the campaign to bring more woman to be wiki editors: is it possible that certain topics related to feminism have a more relaxed stance regarding to accuracy or truthfulness so wikipedia appears more friendly to these specific newcomers?

[–]prunejuicechilled 182 ポイント183 ポイント  (18子コメント)

"Ask me anything, as long as it's not inconvenient in some way"

[–]TDS_Red 183 ポイント184 ポイント  (1子コメント)

>please ask us anything but not questions that expose my hypocrisy or bring to light the failings of wikipedia policy that encourage untruths and allows for unscrupulous individuals to abuse our system

[I would also like to discourage people from subscribing to the reddit gold scheme, all meaningful features granted by reddit gold are available through browser extensions and all you're doing is putting money into the pockets of venal swindlers]

[–]MaleGoddess 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like that edit.

[–]pepipopa 141 ポイント142 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's ask me anything jimmy. Understand where you are next time you come begging for money from the same people you laugh and sneer at.

[–]RobbieGee 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I got the recent email asking for money again since I donated in the past. "Oh, if just everyone that donated before did it again". Well, maybe you should have thought of that Jimmy before you so easily accepted that bias where they lie about us gamers.

[–]wowww_ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

They supposedly have millions of dollars, and enough for their operating expenses.

[–]RobbieGee 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and I went to wikipedia and checked their "GamerGate" page. It's about bees and is satire (but playing on the lies perpetuated in the media), was made november last year and aggressively removes any edit mentioning what gamergate really is. That tells the entire story perfectly clear, if it's related to a political ideal that Wikipedia supports, you can write anything without having your mod powers removed. I'm just glad Wikipedia has the history, it's incredibly valuable if you want to see whether there's a controversy going on, and with the 1000 edits or so to the GG site... well, yeah.

[–]SwiebelKuchen 205 ポイント206 ポイント x2 (7子コメント)

I looked up gamergate on wikipedia, it's about harassing women and driving them out of gaming, not censorship and promoting extremist propaganda. Why would you think it has anything to do with his question?

[–]MonkahBoy 77 ポイント78 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zing!

Then again, let's be honest-- he knows very well what GamerGate is about.

[–]shillingintensify 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who the sources are of the article answers that question. :)

[–]v00d00_ 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a masterful comment. This is art.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

As someone who's been following gamergate from the very beginning, I can safely say that it's a very biased and very inaccurate depiction of events. I saw a poll in a gamer forum where the majority is anti-gamergate, yet 75% of people voted on the poll that the wikipedia article is very biased and untruthful.

So even people who lean towards the same side as gamergate detractors find the article biased.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.865334-Poll-Inaccuracy-of-wikipedia-in-covering-gamergate

This is why people are addressing this question to jimmy wales: We've seen the developments and how biased and inaccurate wikipedia's treatment of the subject has been and it makes us wonder about the reliability of wikipedia.

For example, one of the first media sources to write about gamergate was the guardian, which as the time of writing, is sourced 9 times in the article. This same guardian wrote an article how 5 feminist editors got banned from wikipedia for being feminists, when in reality, no decision had been made in the arbcom yet.

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/02/wikipedia_gamergate_scandal_how_a_bad_source_made_wikipedia_wrong_about.html

Unfortunately, at the risk of being slandered in biased unfactual media as the guardian, wikimedia has taken a course of avoidance rather than addressing the issues at hand, ensuring that more of these kind of problems will arise in the future.

[–]SwiebelKuchen 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cop: Sir, we regret to inform you your wife has been murdered.

Husband: I had nothing to do with my wife being shot.

Cop: We never said she was shot.

Jimmy proved that doesn't just happen in bad cop movies.

[–]Joe56780 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought it was about a woman who got her game greenlit on steam for being 'harassed'.

[–]PadaV4 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe he thinks he is a woman..

[–]IAMA_BAD_MAN_AMA 174 ポイント175 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow.

[–]cuauhtlatoatzin 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, indeed. Are you fucking kidding us, Jimmy?

[–]Echelon64 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you honestly expect a former porn king to have any sensibility?

[–]Deefry 172 ポイント173 ポイント  (78子コメント)

What happened to 'Ask Us Anything'?

[–]shillingintensify 101 ポイント102 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's made it clear propagandizing is ok as long as it's not against his political or financial interests.

Mmmmm Saudi Arabian money.

[–]wowww_ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd like to talk a little bit more about rampart... okay guys??

[–]Yurilica 227 ポイント228 ポイント  (85子コメント)

No where in that question was Gamergate even mentioned.

And it's a legitimate question. The fact that Wikipedia had to hold an Arbcom related to it proves that there is an agenda-pushing issue on Wikipedia.

This problem existed even before Gamergate and is causing a constant downfall of active editors on Wikipedia.

[–]ApplicableSongLyric 134 ポイント135 ポイント  (68子コメント)

No where in that question was Gamergate even mentioned.

But speaks volumes as to where he knows he's fucked up, hard.

コメントをもっと表示する (65 返事)

    [–]Weedwacker 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    /r/wikiinaction

    [–]YESmovement 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (14子コメント)

    This problem existed even before Gamergate and is causing a constant downfall of active editors on Wikipedia.

    Maybe that's why Wikipedia has such a low number of women editors...

    [–]jimmahdean 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (13子コメント)

    (This meant purely as discussion, be gentle)

    I'm pretty sure there is a much bigger male presence online than female, which is why there always seems to be a smaller amount of women on basically any non female-oriented websites, and even some of those too.

    [–]YESmovement 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Wikipedia certainly doesn't have any structural barriers preventing women from editing. I don't know is most just prefer to keep their gender private or it's something women generally just don't find interesting.

    [–]jimmahdean 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    That's not what I meant at all. I meant that there are simply fewer women on the internet. I have no actual data to back this up, but reddit is mostly male, women are bombarded with messages on online dating sites while men get practically zero. Basically every single site that isn't woman-focused has a much higher male population than female. I can't imagine why wikipedia would be any different.

    [–]ManWhoKilledHitler 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think Reddit was about 40% female overall

    women are bombarded with messages on online dating sites while men get practically zero.

    I think that's mainly because women generally don't send messages while men send lots.

    [–]memeticadama 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sexual dimorphism at work. Men chase, women chose. That's how our species works.

    [–]distillation 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    There really aren't fewer women on the internet. You just assume everyone you talk to is male. The last demographics that reddit released had it at like 59% male and 41% female. While that is a larger amount male, it's not like it's by an overwhelming amount.

    [–]memeticadama 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    20%!

    [–]hobblygobbly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    What makes you think there is more male presence on the Internet than female? The Internet is a pretty big place... for everything imaginable. The Internet is available from a slide of your smartphone, this isn't the 1990s any more when we dialed up our modems.'

    If you have no data/stats to back it up then there's no reason to make that claim. It's just speculation.

    Shit, I've seen it first hand where women in games have gone under male identities and used voice modulation to avoid being identified as a woman. Three separate women did that in EVE.

    Besides when it comes to text, you can never know the gender of someone unless explicitly stated or given some context. Also, women don't explicitly "go after" men, that's what men have done for hundreds of years, still happens today whether online or not.

    Think about it, it's 2015. People have more access to the Internet than ever, there's more to the Internet than ever, from social media to obscure things. Saying men have a larger presence on the Internet in 2015 by any large margin is a stretch. I'd agree with if it this was maybe 5-10 years ago, but not today.

    [–]nomoch 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wikipedia certainly doesn't have any structural barriers preventing women from editing.

    Have you seen wiki mark up?

    It's a barrier to every sane human being who doesn't want to gouge their eyes out.

    [–]memeticadama 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    It seems to me that editing wikipedia requires a fair amount of autism spectrum presence, and well, that affliction hits men more than women.

    (I'm actually serious, yes!)

    [–]MonkahBoy 101 ポイント102 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Even if you disagree with his claim, you're making an ass of yourself by replying so aggressively to his comment. He asked you a legitimate question which a good number of people are concerned about-- especially after issues with people like Ryulong. Instead of addressing his concern, you decided that it was a better idea to insult him for his beliefs.

    Real professional, Wales.

    [–]thelordofcheese 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    He's less professional than I am; and that's saying something.

    [–]Deverone 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    But you are a Lord!

    [–]morzinbo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    it ain't easy being cheesy

    [–]16MillionDollarVulva 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's what happens when you're a rich fuck praised by the media. You lose your sense of shame and start acting like a cynical penis.

    [–]deaddoe -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Wales is professional? Wat?

    [–]giantenemygoat 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's some cute deflection there Jimbo.

    [–]mathwork 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Way to make sure I never donate.

    [–]NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Did you ever donate before?

    [–]MaleGoddess 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I thought about it. I've made donations to others before, mainly android developers. After reading about far left leaning editors making changes to history and stuff on wikipedia, then I definitely would not donate.

    [–]platoandfriends 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I would definitely consider myself far left, and I feel very conflicted about GG (there are valid concerns about journalism but also worrying trends and views all around), but that answer has killed any possibility of future donations from me.

    [–]MaleGoddess 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't care what your political stance is, just like I don't care about your sexual orientation or religious views. Just don't try and push you beliefs off on others who don't want to hear it. I'd say I'm pretty moderate, on some issues I'll side with the right and others I'll side with the left.

    Wikipedia has many far left leaning editors that are trying to literally change history and using Wikipedia as their platform to do so. It's become heavily bias and it shows.

    [–]mzpq 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I have, and I will continue to, even if I disagree with Jimmy here. Wikipedia transcends a shit single page on an internet dispute which isn't formally analyzed anywhere. They still have very good science and math pages, and it has taught me a lot over the years. This comment thread is a bit of an overreaction.

    [–]Aleitheo 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Interesting reply, you brush off the question completely without trying to apologise or justify what you did. I'm sure that won't backfire at all.

    [–]thelordofcheese 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    -53 and gilded, to someone who could afford gold every second of the day

    [–]giantenemygoat 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    reposted from elsewhere:

    Actual Wikipediafag here, you're very misled if you think the Wikimedia Foundation is concerned about losing a small number of potential donors. Currently, the WMF is sitting on enough donation money to last them 10 years if they spend on running costs alone.

    Since they have a large surplus amount of funds, they're wasting it all by hiring shitty devs to work on trash like MediaViewer, Flow, and Web 2.0 hipster bullshit. The Wikimedia Foundation also pays photographers to attend concerts to take photographs of singers. The top chairs also get paid more than $70,000 every year.

    I recommend that nobody actually donates to the Wikimedia Foundation, and this is coming from someone who has been on Wikipedia writing articles in the long term.

    [–]tqi 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Web 2.0 hipster bullshit.

    Dude. It's 2015.

    [–]Irongrip 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well it's web 3.0 hipster bullshit these days. As much as I love HTML5 and CSS3. Some of the stuff is pretty circlejerky.

    [–]thelordofcheese 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He's being ironic.

    [–]Shugbug1986 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Wow, this needs to be higher. Fuck Jimmy and his band of lying con artists.

    [–]ExplainsSocialEnigma 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    To be fair, most charities are like this. Very few spend their money well. Almost none are run by volunteers.

    They're not organizations of "we volunteer our time, you volunteer your money, and we'll do good things together." Instead they're "you pay us to do good things maybe."

    [–]non_consensual 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    http://i.imgur.com/FSC8tRd.jpg

    [–]thelordofcheese 102 ポイント103 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Listen and Believe

    Fuck you. You claim to want to preserve truth, yet you promote propaganda. Fuck you.

    [–]Dragofireheart 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can't handle the criticism, Jimmy the Joke?

    Your website, Wikipedia, is the laughing stock in the Internet at the moment. The fact that you had to resort to blaming GamerGate yet again shows how much of a god damn shill you are.

    You are pathetic. Enjoy watching your website continue to be tarnished by crazy "progressive" extremists.

    [–]thelordofcheese 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    BIG THING AND STUFF

    Look, Jimmy - and I hate calling you that without you knowing my first name, but INTERNET - the problem is I have a big issue with ignorance and avoiding demonstrable facts as well as observer bias.

    I didn't even get into that shit you're talking about until Randi Harper got involved, and she's been a a complete public mess and known liar for years.

    [–]16MillionDollarVulva 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Did you hear that interview from 2010 where she basically says that the whole "women are being discriminated in tech" is bullshit and it's because a lot of people want to get in without doing the merits? Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koYYqY-Ms38

    [–]MSPreacher 70 ポイント71 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Pathetic. Keep nourishing the infestation of SJWs on Wikipedia. I'm sure the quality of your articles won't start hurting when more and more rational people start leaving because they're tired of this shit -- and of the 'neutrality' of cowards like you. You don't maintain neutrality in the face of ethics, bub. That's like maintaining neutrality in the face of the barbarians at the gates.

    [–]thelordofcheese 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Look at how well Germans who were neutral influenced a more open and truthful Reich.

    [–]wowww_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you gave a shit, you'd just answer it dude. Not as if someone of your intelligence would have a hard time on it, Jimmy.

    [–]Shugbug1986 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Gamergate wasn't even part of the question, but at least you have the ability to see the bigger problem. And now we see which side if that problem you stand on.

    [–]LwnMowerMan 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Wow, this is supposed to be our brave defender against the NSA?

    [–]ManWhoKilledHitler 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think I'm on the NSA's side now. Can somebody in the government shut this fuckwit down?

    [–]LwnMowerMan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    In all seriousness; he does play to the government's narrative of "dangerous domestic extremists having influence" only that statement is usually in reference to right wing extremists.

    [–]ManWhoKilledHitler 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I thought the real right wing extremists in America were a pretty marginalised bunch, living out their survivalist fantasies and worrying about Obama and his muslim hordes. On the other hand, the extreme left seems to be rather more visible and influential in places like academia.

    The rest of America might view them all as the deranged fantasists they really are but some of them can have a worrying amount of influence.

    [–]mcdehuevo 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (19子コメント)

    I've donated to Wikipedia many times in the past. Never again while you're in charge and allowing political activists to determine content.

    [–]iiksodlp 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Do you not understand that by allowing fanatical Marxists and feminists to mischaracterize political topics on Wikipedia you are losing all your credibility? Never donating again. Gonna do my best to spread the word that no one should donate, and no one should take Wikipedia seriously as a source anymore. This is so sad.

    [–]aidrocsid 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The AMA about Jimmy Wales, head of Wikipedia, is right here, my friend.

    [–]PolyDragan 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Hey nice strawman you've got there! Totally dismissed the acusations

    [–]SwiebelKuchen 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think you mean "confirmed the accusations."

    [–]Derpsti 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'd like to think that /r/WikiInAction is more topical, after all there is so much bullshit and personal politics/favoritism going on on Wikipedia, that it needed its own Subreddit to expose even minor amounts of it.

    [–]jealkeja 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is a very effective way to alienate people who are actually interested in making Wikipedia what it should be.

    [–]Joss_Muex 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Your website was instrumental, arguably critical, in demonizing and slandering the video game industry and community over the last 8 months. The recent SVU episode on gamers was confirmed as being sourced from the hysteria on your sites pages.

    The least you could have done was just delete the article/move it to Wikinews. But, like a lot of celebrities, you just cannot seem to resist putting the boot into gamers when they are down.

    [–]platoandfriends 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That was a very unwise response. Many of us were sighing at the original question, but expected a response from someone doing an 'ask me anything'. You could have ignored the question if you didn't want to answer it, but that sort of patronising bullshit answer really makes you come across badly.

    [–]NukeRusich 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The implication that you just put in my head that you've been fucking with WP's consensus process, which I had previously thought was only showing a temporary weakness on a current events issue, is as strong as his implication that GG is being attacked by Wikipedia. I have been relying on WP as a source aggregation site and as a personal source of information since before I entered high school. You've now ruined all credibility for not only Wikipedia but for the entire Wikimedia Foundation. The sad thing is that people can and will still trust you. Thanks for confessing that you're personally fucking up Wikipedia.

    I think I'll try making a fork of Wikipedia, now. Can you tell me how to download the entire database?

    [–]ApplicableSongLyric 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Here you go!

    http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download

    The architecture has never been Wikipedia's strong point, though, so consider that that's what you're building off of before you throw a bunch of time into it.

    [–]v00d00_ 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A website like Wikipedia, which millions of people use as a source of information daily, should not have political bias in its articles and moderation.

    [–]munkymann 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    this is an ask me anything, answer the question

    [–]wingar 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "Any negative comment against us is just gamergate!!" Grow up.

    [–]NorBdelta 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And yet, gamergate was not mentioned, my friend.

    [–]SolGarfuncle 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So you beg for money but you won't take steps to make sure Wikipedia is actually well managed and unbiased? Fuck you mate.

    [–]BigTimStrange 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (32子コメント)

    Being completely blind to the rise of people with far-left extremist views in North America is why I no longer support Wikipedia. I'm saying that as someone who's firmly on the left myself.

    This is a problem that's gone on well before and well outside gamergate. It's gotten to the point where kids on campuses are talking about how freedom of speech can be hate speech that threatens inclusion.

    [–]Bardfinn 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (31子コメント)

    far-left extremist views

    Yeah — you wouldn't know far-left extremists if one kidnapped you and held you hostage in a basement in Italy.

    Check up on the Red Brigade and US General Dozier at some point — they posed as plumbers, tied up his wife in their apartment, beat him, stuffed him into a tiny car and drove him to a farmhouse, and kept him hostage while making political demands — causing NATO to go full-on highest alert status, since the CO of LANDSOUTH HQ in Europe got kidnapped by actual left-wing extremists — sparking an international incident, leading to nuclear submarines being on heightened readiness status around the world and the motherfucking Kremlin talking with the PotUS (Reagan), playing the "we deny any involvement" game. You know how they found Dozier? NATO pressured the Italian Carabinieri (Police) into looking everywhere and leaving no stone unturned — as a result, the Carabinieri were raiding so many Mafia establishments that the Mafia were forced to locate Dozier for them just so that they could go back to business-as-usual.

    That is far-left extremism — when there's an actual kidnapping of a political figure and even the fucking Mafia rats you out.

    A bunch of feminists talking sassily at you over Twitter does not count as "people with far-left extremist views". Get some fucking perspective, you mewling, entitled scrotum.

    [–]BigTimStrange 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (24子コメント)

    For a self-proclaimed academic, you're painfully obtuse.

    Two seconds on the lowly Wikipedia:

    Far-left politics or extreme-left politics are left-wing politics that are further to the left than mainstream centre-left politics.

    You've completely let your emotions override your logic. I mean look at this nonsense:

    (Gamergaters) have a narcissistic Victim-Persecutor-Rescuer complex, described in the Karpman drama triangle. To them, in their minds, society at large is The Victim, the SJWs or the Jews or their Nemeses are The Persecutor, and they are The Rescuer.

    Let's look at SJWs and the Victim-Persecutor-Rescuer complex:

    To them, in their minds, society at large is The Victim

    SJWs claim we're all being oppressed by "the Patriarchy", this ill-defined bogeyman that's the cause of everything wrong in society.

    the SJWs or the Jews or their Nemeses are The Persecutor

    SJWs claim gamers are the Persecutor

    and they are The Rescuer.

    SJWs demand "safe spaces" and "trigger warnings", demand art be censored for being offensive, all in the name of diversity, feminism and social justice.

    So now you've pissed away all your time in academia because these SJWs scream "misogyny" at people that stood up to their authoritarian nonsense and let your emotions override your intellect.

    Honestly, with all the work you've done and you can't see the same system of "create fear, blame a group of outsiders by exploiting the negatives stereotypes of that group, and promise a brighter future by adhering to a rigid ideology to attack that group" that was employed by the nazis against the jews, socialists, artists, political opponents, etc being employed by these SJWs now, well... at least you're showing everyone how easy it was for the Germans to be seduced by the Nazi's rhetoric.

    [–]EsrYOhlR -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (23子コメント)

    SJWs claim we're all being oppressed by "the Patriarchy", this ill-defined bogeyman that's the cause of everything wrong in society.

    Unlike the SJW bogeyman created by MRA's and other reactionaries, Patriarchy is a well defined idea based in reality and academia.

    "create fear, blame a group of outsiders by exploiting the negatives stereotypes of that group, and promise a brighter future by adhering to a rigid ideology to attack that group"

    You are delusional if you are comparing third-wave feminism with Nazism. If there was any political party which would support GamerGate it would be the NSDAP.

    [–]Kryvakryz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (13子コメント)

    Unlike the SJW bogeyman created by MRA's and other reactionaries, Patriarchy is a well defined idea based in reality and academia.

    Histerical leftists have nothing to do with a legitimate academic discourse, what you're talking about is just a circlejerk for rich white kids who are too stupid to get a useful degree. It's as much "academic" as theology.

    [–]EsrYOhlR -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Well you're factually incorrect there. Discourse on our modern patriarchal society stems back to the Frankfurt School as well as psychologists like Jung and Freud.

    Histerical leftists have nothing to do with a legitimate academic discourse

    What do you consider legitimate academic discourse then.

    Personally I think that the cultural criticism applied by third-wave feminism is beneficial to the world and is slowly making this world a more equal place.

    [–]Kryvakryz 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Frankfurt School as well as psychologists like Jung and Freud

    I don't think professional storytellers like Freud who specialize in creating compelling narratives for theories they can't prove or the prominent Frankfurt School post-marxists have much credibility outside of the clique that worships them; just like theology or antique philosophy, early psychological theories like psychoanalysis have definitely contributed to the progress of different fields at one point but have lost their relevance ever since. People of Frankfurt School on the other hand were influential ideologists and philosophers, but influence isn't a measure of how close to truth one's theories are. As such their credibility is often on par with that of a theologist and their contributions limit mostly to the cultural sort.

    What do you consider legitimate academic discourse then.

    A one that rejects pseudo-scientific claims as valid/rejects the use of untestable social theories as premises for arguments that have no actual scientific basis yet try to hide behind the credibility of hard science and it's methodological rigor.

    Personally I think that the cultural criticism applied by third-wave feminism is beneficial to the world and is slowly making this world a more equal place.

    We don't agree on this too, then. I consider the third-wave feminism to be the worst thing that could happen as far as the cause of equal rights goes.

    [–]EsrYOhlR -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    I don't think professional storytellers like Freud

    ... what? You need some credentials in order to back such a scathing discrediting of one of the 20th centuries most important figures.

    untestable social theories as premises for arguments that have no actual scientific basis yet try to hide behind the credibility of hard science and it's methodological rigor.

    Note where critical theorists hide behind 'hard sciences'. If anything that technique is the realm of neo-conservatives of the Chicago School. I don't know any high-profile critical theorists with that pretention.

    I consider the third-wave feminism to be the worst thing that could happen as far as the cause of equal rights goes.

    And why is that?

    [–]Kryvakryz 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    You need some credentials in order to back such a scathing discrediting of one of the 20th centuries most important figures.

    Pope is an "important figure" who is also considered by many to be an authority on the subject of religion and/or philosophy. That doesn't automatically make all of his views correct or worth adopting, although I guess that many firm believers will not be able to understand this.

    http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2005/was-freud-a-pseudoscientist/

    Note where critical theorists hide behind 'hard sciences'

    I'm sorry if I've worded that poorly; I was actually referring to hiding behind the credibility of "academics" by utilizing the ignorance of the public, as "academics" is a wide term that includes competent people with a scientific background as well as all kinds of campus ideologues whose supporters use the prestige of universities that the ideologues operate on as a shield from criticism. Some simpletons consider questioning ideas promoted by said ideologues to be equal with denying the laws of newtonian physics, and even reasonable people fall for association fallacies.

    And why is that?

    Because I think that in addition to being misguided more often than it's not, their criticism is also horrible. Usually it has dubious basis, promotes double standards, misrepresents views of the opposition, bends the interpretation of empirical data/sociological phenomena to the narrative regardless of other possible explanations and sometimes it's flat out incorrect. Finally, I don't think that all social norms/attitudes which third-wave feminists criticize are necessarily bad or harmful.

    [–]morzinbo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    the same academia that is now indoctrinating college students with Anita Sarkeesian's vile filth?

    [–]EsrYOhlR 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Define 'vile'

    [–]morzinbo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Lies.

    [–]EsrYOhlR 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I don't follow GamerGate at all but if you described her as 'vile' then her lies must have been very egregious. Could you give me some examples?

    [–]morzinbo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    In terms of GamerGate, Sarkeesian has basically inserted herself into the conversation without any real reason for it.

    Outside of GamerGate, Sarkeesian has failed to deliver on her kickstarter campaign, stolen artwork and footage for her work, claimed she's being harassed and when evidence shows up pointing her directly to her harasser, she refuses to submit any kind of police report, among other things. The cherry on top? There's a video of her saying that she doesn't even like video games.

    There's a lot more, but I gotta get to work.

    [–]Bardfinn -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    /r/boycotttheextremists

    [–]EsrYOhlR -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think that's a good initiative but if you want to really fulfil that message you're going to have to start empathising with the "SJW's" too.

    [–]thelordofcheese 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    TIL you can't have far-left views unless you actually act upon them.

    #DieCisScum #KillAllMen

    Fucking clown.

    [–]Lulzorr 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You've got to be fucking kidding me. What an unsatisfactory hand wave.

    This alone ensures that I will never donate a dime to your organization.

    [–]ApplicableSongLyric 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    You're a blight on Objectivism, that's for sure. Holy shit.

    [–]omargard 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    objectivism, a religion founded by Ayn Rand, has nothing to do with objectivity.

    [–]ApplicableSongLyric -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Objectivism isn't a religion, it's a philosophy.

    Jimmy Wales is an espouser of Objectivism, used to moderate usenet discussions about it, I'm talking nothing about objectivity.

    [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]peenoid 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Wow, what an unprofessional fucking douche you are, Wales. I used to have such great respect for you. I have given money to Wikipedia in the past. Never again.

        [–]kayrope 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Technocratic elitism at its finest

        [–]Mobre 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        That is a valid question and a serious issue. Whether or not 'GamerGate' has incorporated such an idea into itself is irrelevant! The question and issue were asked independent of any ideologies or other ideas and should be addressed as such.

        So again, without assuming and adding the question to something that wasn't asked, what are your thoughts?

        Edit: After rereading the question, while I find Jimmy Wales response inappropriate, it is understandable as the question is in the form of an assumptious attack.

        Why should we trust someone from Wikimedia given their favoritism and collusion

        It's similar to asking him when he stopped killing kittens and drinking orphan blood.

        [–]RobbieGee 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Then he could ignore the question or start by refuting that he, Jimmy Wales, has never killed kittens and drunk orphan blood.

        [–]thelordofcheese 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yeah, after we all saw video of them doing just that. Why does the sun shine, how does it feel to know we breathe air?

        [–]InvisibleJimBSH 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I'm embarassed my country offers refuge to this libelous, defamatory cretin.

        [–]ManWhoKilledHitler 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Hey Jimmy, I remember seeing you do a presentation a couple of years ago which still sticks with me today.

        More than anything I was taken aback by how much it fucking sucked and the sheer brass neck you showed in turning up barely prepared with a bunch of shit slides none of us could see. People paid could money to watch your amateurish little show and you couldn't even be bothered to make the effort to do it right. Still, I'm sure you got your fat paycheque so everything's just fine isn't it?

        You worthless parasite.

        [–]thelordofcheese -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Exactly. These people are nothing more than profiteers who care nothing about their purported issue and in fact do harm to the greater cause, not merely negating any good which may have come from what is demonstrably a flawed stance but rather regressing it to the point where the other extremist end of the spectrum benefits.

        [–]kraptor 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        You know where last i heard about that same kind of criticism Jimmy?

        /r/AskHistorians , maybe you should go have a talk with them.

        [–]longlankin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Oooooh buuuuurn

        [–]VforVanarchy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Ask a weighted (and off topic) question, get a weighted answer.

        [–]humanitiesconscious 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The fact that you represent something that probably has millions of human hours devoted to it at this point makes me sad.

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