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DuckDuckGo donates 125.000$ to FOSS projects: SecureDrop, EFF, GPG, Tails and Girl Develop It (duck.co)

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[–]sudo-intellectual 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (57子コメント)

I can't understand why people donate to discriminatory groups like Girl Develop It. I think it'd be nice if more women were into coding but I don't think "women only" groups are an intelligent means to reach that goal. It's derogatory, women don't need a special girls club, they need to be treated like everyone else. Practices such as this exclude 50% of the population in the name of progress, it's wrong.

[–]the_isra17 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (18子コメント)

As a member of the 92% of the IT population, I definitely feel excluded by group like Girl Develop It. Edit: /s

[–]subvertc 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Why? You claim as part of the IT population, so why would you feel excluded by a group that focuses on getting woman into code, at a beginner's level. What interest would you have for signing up to their workshops if you already know the material?

[–]the_isra17 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Sorry, I should have added the sarcasm tag. I just wanted to show how ridicoulus claim about being excluded or discriminated by organization such as GDI sounds.

[–]cpu007 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It may sound ridiculous but it's reality and dead serious. GDI is an organisation with an operational idea based on discrimination. They have a positive public image because women are supposedly a disadvantaged group in the tech industry. They fight perceived sexims with sexism, which many people (OP and myself included) think is unethical. Two wrongs don't make a right.

As for your original snide, ridiculing people who point out cases of discrimination can hardly be considered constructive discussion.

[–]MightySasquatch -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So the best method of getting rid of discrimination is to prohibit and hope it works itself out?

[–]cpu007 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So the best method of getting rid of discrimination is to prohibit and hope it works itself out?

The best method to get rid of discrimination is to fight discrimination, not practice it. GDI is not fighting discrimination, they're practicing it.

If the reason for the lack of women in the tech industry is sexism, then the lack of women isn't the problem, it's a symptom. If you don't get rid of the root cause the symptoms won't disappear, whatever you do. And in this case the solution is either kicking the sexist c*nts out of the industry or forcing them to change their behavior. How to do that isn't up to me to decide, but I've a couple of pointers. Firstly, legistlation that allows you to document discrimination, and even record every discussion you have at work if necessary. Second, giving people resources to fight discrimination in courts to set strong legal precedents for discrimination cases.

There are many ways to actually combat discrimination. If only DDG had donated to an organisation that could do that instead of giving to GDI...

[–]Shakespeares_Ghost -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now must I to the monument alone;

Within three hours will fair Juliet wake:

She will beshrew me much that Romeo

Hath had no notice of these accidents;

But I will write again to Mantua,

And keep her at my cell till Romeo come;

Poor living corse, closed in a dead man's tomb!

Exit

[–]the_isra17 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

World Poetry Day :D

[–]sudo-intellectual -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

what? You're already in the community, this is about outreach toward those just getting in/getting interested. You can't imagine a young boy turned off by being excluded from a program?

[–]the_isra17 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No I really can't... Unless you are some MRA that get turned off by women looking for a better place for themselves.

Why should I feel excluded by an organisation that doesn't have anything to do with me? If I want to get in IT and see people of my own gender/culture, I just walk in any college or workplace.

As a girl, you just can't do that. Wherever you go or look it's mostly all boys.

[–]sudo-intellectual 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not everyone can just walk into colleges, some people are poor, and those people need opportunities which don't exclude them on the basis of characteristics they were born with and have no power to change.

[–]the_isra17 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

For sure, but there are many association aiming to help poor people as well. Helping poor people doesn't discriminate against rich people just like helping girl doesn't discriminate boys.

[–]sudo-intellectual 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There are both boys and girls without access to computer skills. There are no rich people without money, your analogy doesn't make sense.

[–]the_isra17 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Looking at the stats, it seems like girl have an harder time to get access to computer skills. As someone said, there are organisation for boys, it's called everything else. I'm tired of arguing, this thread is a circlejerk with every opinion going against your point of view downvoted. Have a great day.

[–]sudo-intellectual 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anyone with the Internet has broad access to learning computer skills. Everything else is for everyone, exclusive programs exclude. I just don't think everything should be 50/50 just because it seems nice. People are different, men and women are different, they make different choices, no big deal.

Enjoy your day as well.

[–]DrHenryPym 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I can't understand why people donate to discriminatory groups like Girl Develop It.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. It's not about excluding -- it's about including. These organizations are trying to acquire people that normally wouldn't pursue this field.

Practices such as this exclude 50% of the population in the name of progress, it's wrong.

Currently, women don't represent 50% of software engineers, so it's actually excluding a lot more than that. Historically, women have had to overcome prejudices in the workplace that still exist today.

These organizations are essential to normalize the distribution in the workforce. Ironically, trying to stop these organizations in the spirit of being equal prevents equal representation in the workforce.

[–]sudo-intellectual 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Why is 50/50 representation considered normal?

[–]DrHenryPym 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Because women are roughly 50% of the population. They are not 50% of software engineers. The workforce is not equally distributed.

[–]Error400BadRequest 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because women are roughly 50% of the population. They are not 50% of software engineers. The workforce is not equally distributed.

What about Waste Management? Offshore Drillers? Fisherman? Coal Miners? Construction Workers? Soldiers? Surely you wish to push women into these fields as well?

Your argument is one I've heard many times, but it's always selectively applied. I'll ignore that, though. Let's talk about the Comp Sci gender cap.

Historically, around 40% of Computer Science and related degrees went to women until something changed in the 80s and it's been on a decline since. Now it's ~10%. Telling women to try computer science isn't really going to cut it. There's something else at play here. Simply telling women "try Comp Sci, it's fun, we'll even let you take an all-female class" isn't going to cut it.

I think a gender-specific approach is inherently wrong. It's no different than segregating people by race or religion. In fact, it's detrimental to the education of the people involved. Part of the reason higher education focuses so much on diversity is because exposure to different viewpoints and cultures is extremely valuable.

What you're doing by offering gender specific initiatives is taking two large group of people with their own culture and opinions, and depriving them of each other. This also means that men never learn how to collaborate effectively with women, and women never learn to collaborate effectively with men. I'd even argue it widens the gender gap, because the interaction was never learned and it makes integration into a "male-dominated" field difficult.

[–]DrHenryPym 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree that it would be best to approach this at the root of the problem, but I don't see any evidence of how a girl in or out of college is going to benefit from that. To me, I think creating a sub group is like creating a comfortable subreddit. It can help you out of your comfort zone to experience new challenges. These organizations also reach out to other organizations to promote diversity. And eventually these people get more confident, branch out and work with everyone. I really don't see the harm.

[–]sudo-intellectual 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

But why should any workforce be evenly distributed? Why does it mean something is wrong if it isn't? I'm okay with men and women being different and making different choices. In my opinion it is the personal choice of many individuals, not some systemic societal problem.

[–]DrHenryPym -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Just to be clear, you're arguing against having a normal distribution of women in software engineering because it doesn't have to be equal while arguing that women's organizations need to be more inclusive to be more equal.

You're essentially arguing for double standards.

[–]sudo-intellectual 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What? No, I'm not, you're putting words in my mouth. I'm asking why you think 50/50 is the definition of normal.

[–]DrHenryPym -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, what would be a normal distribution? Half the population is female, but half the engineers are not women. That doesn't sound normal.

[–]Bodertz -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

And you would say the same to those who want the workforce to be even but not the group that teaches only women?

[–]DrHenryPym -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's a paradox, but I'd argue that when the former is equal, the latter would be unnecessary.

[–]Bodertz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The difference is in excluding people from joining. S/he doesn't care if only women join a group that teaches whatever. She's fine with there being an imbalance, he just doesn't like the exclusion. Or so I think. You'd have to ask them.

Yeah, okay, I tried. I don't like 'them'.

[–]DrHenryPym 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Again, exclusive is a tricky word because they're trying to reach out to people who would statistically not likely pursue engineering based on the current distribution. The cause is for making it more normal for women to join the path.

[–]ethraax 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Women are roughly 50% of the population. They are not 50% of auto mechanics. The workforce is not equally distributed.

[–]DrHenryPym 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And I wouldn't have a problem with an organization for women in mechanics. Who would?

[–]mrpg_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is completely crystal clear why they did it: To shield themselves from the otherwise inevitable, collective direction of anger and malevolence towards them by SJWs.