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ArtIMVU Buys Furaffinity (furaffinity.net)

korosarumAnarcho-Communist Fox! が 投稿

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[–]sirblastalot 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (16子コメント)

"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"

This is a SERIOUS blow to every artist on FA.

[–]sircarpfemboi snow mew/redditfurs IRC owner 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Imgur, sofurry, DA and twitter all have a clause like that in their TOS. I assume every site that allows you to post content does.

[–]allthefoxes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

^ This

Reddit has the same a similar clause. You post something to reddit, they can use it.

[–]SareiiWolf-Kaiju 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hell, Facebook has it. Remember that mildly hilarious mostly annoying trend a couple years ago about "post this as your status to opt out of letting fb claim your stuff"?

[–]SareiiWolf-Kaiju 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd like to know the full context of this because as a dedicated art site, they should know they can't just do that.

This kind of stuff happened on DA a while back and got everyone up in arms, because no one actually knew how that worked. Turns out they were riled up over nothing because they weren't just gonna toss everyone's stuff everywhere just cuz they could. It was still very much the artists' property.

Edit: reading further, this looks just like the standard "just in casies" they add to protect themselves. But just cuz they can doesn't mean they will. Pretty sure it's more along the lines of advertisement, or something lesser. They are not taking your art and using it for anything terrible, they wouldn't do that lol.

[–]korosarumAnarcho-Communist Fox![S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cripes, that just sounds like awful wording even if it isn't supposed to be a bad thing. "We can steal your art! Woo!"

Also, it feels like unless he updates the ToS for FA that's kinda a thing you can't normally do? I'm probably wrong about that but still.

[–]tangocat777 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

If they actually do this, there are going to be lawsuits. There's no way this will hold up in court.

[–]sirblastalot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

How many furry artists can't afford lawyers?

[–]tangocat777 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We only need one to afford a lawyor and get a decision.

[–]ThatweaselI have the shiniest meat bicycle 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's already been established that fine print is not legally binding, meaning regular copy-write law would apply I believe.

[–]Purplegill10Dragon with a stupid snout 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/6588936

He explains it here

[–]fivetailfox 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The way Neer described it in the response noted above, it involves cropped images used for advertising purposes, not to go "HEY WE'RE SELLING FURRY ART NOW" and stealing it entirely. I use similar things constantly in my day to day job for the benefit of the companies whose creative I'm making use of. It's a fairly standard thing in a lot of creative-related businesses. Yeah, it needs to be clarified, though.

[–]stupid_ponyFA/Weasyl: Ruggy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I concur on the clarification. He can say what it's intended for all he wants and I'm not going to trust it until the language reflects its intent.

[–]fivetailfox 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

And the clarification is now posted to the front page.

[–]stupid_ponyFA/Weasyl: Ruggy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right on!

[–]asunyra1rawr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm thinking this is a false rumour so far. Nobody (Dragoneer included) would be dumb enough to agree to that.

[–]stupid_ponyFA/Weasyl: Ruggy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://gyazo.com/908e9ac93bcd4243d05d577355b5b652

Dragoneer knows about it.

[–]fivetailfox 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So let's talk about this from a business perspective, not from a furry drama POV for a sec.

IMVU has been running since 2004, has 120 employees and according to a press release from 2013 takes in $55 million in revenue. FurAffinity, according to Alexa, is nearing the top 1200 sites in North America for traffic. It gets thousands of unique views a day, from a very focused group of users.

Furries make up a chunk of the IMVU user base, so there's a standing link between the two communities. IMVU sees a distinct community that uses distinct methods of communication, and feels that this may be an opportunity to grow and expand their userbase. Furries, when you look at them, are a desirable market for IMVU since they often have disposable income used for commissions, avatars, fursuits, convention attendance, etc.

It's likely that the purchase was a drop in the bucket for them; I don't know the valuation Dragoneer put on the site, but likely a lot of whatever he got is going to pay down debt incurred by running the site out of pocket (barring donations, which they've shown as having gone towards the site), so he's not getting rich. They get a distinct market and more eyes; FA gets a few more ads, probably when the new UI is introduced we'll see some extra ad blocks. (And those of us who use ad blockers won't see them anyhow.)

This makes sense both ways from a business perspective. What I expect to see is a rapid modernization thanks to the backend support and financing from IMVU, and hopefully some more robust moderation/management from Dragoneer and his team. There's already a hands-off pledge in place and IMVU is privately owned so no shareholders there to whine about adult stuff, etc. to deal with. We'll see what happens in the next three months. I may be wrong, of course, but I think we all just need to chill and see how it goes.

tl;dr: just breathe, it could be worse

[–]asunyra1rawr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good analysis. One point is that even though they are a privately owned company, I suspect they still have shareholders (VC firms, angels, etc).

And the first time one of those shareholders encounters anal vore on the front page of FA, they'll likely apply some pressure to the board to make some changes.

But who knows, maybe they'll find a way to monetize it without commodifying the whole experience like IMVU does. I don't have high hopes though. Big Silicon Valley firms don't tend to deal well in subtle things like this.

[–]fivetailfox 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty convinced that this is totally about the ad buys in a targeted, moneyed market. They will probably operate it as a separate division with little interconnection.

[–]SoundWolvesGerman Shepherd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

hands-off pledge

Can I see a source for this? Thanks.

And, yeah, I can see IMVU either data-mining, pasting FA with ads... or offering some kind of "Incentive" for users to try IMVU. I doubt FA is self-sufficient from ad money, so in all likelihood they will want to try to drive users to IMVU, and depending on how aggressively they do it FA will either prosper... or just fail entirely, and the community will migrate to Sofurry, Inkbunny, Weasyl etc.

[–]SareiiWolf-Kaiju 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't see a single thing about being hands off, so I would like to see that as well. Honestly, that's the only thing I see being a potential issue, if IMVU starts stepping all over things that have been fairly established for years. I doubt they would, a business wouldn't (ideally) do that after a decently sized investment, but I would like to know for sure.

Otherwise, I think a lot of this is just a whiplash of change and people probably need to get some fresh air for a moment. This doesn't seem catastrophic yet. Honestly, looks like it might help.

Oh, and adblockers.

[–]porsupahPerkiest ears in the North 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Assuming it's for real, and not the result of the account being taken over, I admit, I don't see the connection between the two entities - a 3D chat app, and a furry artwork site?

True, an infusion of moolah would help somewhat, but that still leaves what's commonly regarded as a fairly rickety platform underlying it, unless the plan were to be to just throw hardware at the problem.

Still, I suppose it's a moot point - I've not logged into my account there in years. =:/

(Well, this posting in the IMVU forums, apparently by a staffer, appears to confirm the claim)

[–]KikiFlowersPandas :3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

IMVU has a big Furry community, so FA is theirs now.

[–]-Lemoncola-Combat-Medic Fusky 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Do they? Really the only things I've ever heard or seen about IMVU was how terrible of a site it was years ago and the pictures of bad models with cat ears on FA advertising.

[–]KikiFlowersPandas :3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to Dragoneer yeah.

[–]AtemisRex 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Good, IMVU is a company, that means they actually have reason to improve FA from the clusterfuck it is now.

[–]Arkazex 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I honestly thought IMVU died back around 2004

[–]AtemisRex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see a lot of their adds around the internet, never knew what they were until now. Hoping they don't add any restrictions to FA and just share tech know-how to help improve it.

[–]Frogging101Cynical Arctic Fox 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So Dragoneer appeals to the community for thousands of dollars to keep FA running, gets more than he asked for, and then sells out anyway.

What a fucking shit show. So glad I don't use either of these sites. I'll be over there with a bag of popcorn because this is going to be a hell of a spectacle; anyone who wants to join me is welcome.

[–]haladurKitsune 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fa just pulled an oculas rift.

[–]KikiFlowersPandas :3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The donations were needed, and went into purchasing a new server, pulling money in for the DDOS mitigation and for the items we purchased (which are being packaged this week).

That's his excuse on the FA forums.

[–]Arkazex 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If this turns out not to be an early joke, it'll be one hilarious shitfest

[–]EspurraPocky addicted fluffball 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's actually very likely this is not a joke. If it's a joke it's one that's been in preparation for months which seems odd. Dragoneer has actually said ~ a month ago here on this subreddit that FA never needed donations ever again. People called bullshit, when I asked him what made him think so because I suspected something was up, I got no reply

I fear people will call it off as an april fools joke (I know I almost did) and then forget about it. Great timing FA, well done.

[–]asunyra1rawr 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (9子コメント)

My concerns with this:

  • IMVU is not a part of the furry community and doesn't understand it at all. It's an IM client for teenagers to buy fancy hats for their characters. Not an artist / art-centric site. Dragoneer might've been in way way over his head but at least he is a fur.

  • They explicitly say they are ramping up advertising. I mean, if you have Adblock installed it's probably fine but still it shows their motivation for making the acquisition. They don't care about the community, just whatever ad revenue they can get.

  • They will crack down on adult content, guaranteed. IMVU has very strict censorship, and a company their size can't be seen permitting all the varieties of kinky shit that FA contains. I suspect this will be what kills the site more than anything.

Edit/update: They made an official statement that they aren't going to mess with the adult content. They're also going to let Dragoneer keep control of it (for better or worse). So for now I'm going to just wait and see. A company with 130 employees backing the furry community is unprecedented, so who knows where this could go.

[–]sircarpfemboi snow mew/redditfurs IRC owner 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

IMVU had a presence at Further Confusion this year, they seemed pretty chill, but I didn't really do any more than strike up polite conversation with them.

[–]fa_mirror· I mirror furry pictures 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No porn. On a furry site. With commisions.

Yeah, that's gona work juuuuuuust fine.

[–]Arkazex 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

RIP in peace FA, RIP in peace

[–]asunyra1rawr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Are there any actually decent alternatives?

All my favorite artists are on FA, so that's where I go.

I also like the "groups", so I can follow one account's favorites in order to see more stuff like that. Afaik no other places have that.

[–]VivaldistWhite Wolf 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

e621 is pretty great.

[–]asunyra1rawr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For the consumer of art totally, but not really for the artists. If e621 had some sort of system for artists to solicit commissions, that would be a game changer for sure.

[–]SareiiWolf-Kaiju 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, the reason people are afraid to move is because everyone is there. There are a couple other very nice sites but they haven't had anything that would mass migrate artists that are well established (galleries, favorites, followers, views, etc) on FA. Keep in mind some of these accounts are YEARS old, with a lot there.

It's like moving apartments, it's a bit more of a hassle than is worth it sometimes.

This whole thing going on now, though....we'll see. I don't want to go with my gut and say this is terrible, because it MIGHT work. At least now a decent sum of money will be going to the site. But I'm not holding my breath, because as it stands, there's very little explanation on how hands-on this deal will be, if IMVU will be having a say in the content or not (looking at the adult part btw).

This might spur that mass migration, whether or not the deal was sound. Some people just might not wait around.

[–]porsupahPerkiest ears in the North 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

SoFurry, Weasyl, and Inkbunny are the other main options. (I may be forgetting some)

[–]KikiFlowersPandas :3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not sure on Inkbunny. Mostly because it has cub porn. Which can be avoided, but you know how some furries are.

[–]EspurraPocky addicted fluffball 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Please be a bad early april fools joke, Please be a bad early april fools joke, Please be a bad early april fools joke.... please?

If it's not can we PLEASE MOVE THE HELL AWAY from FA? they just signed their death-warrant.

also, I want to note dragoneer actually said that they didn't need donations ever again, and when asked how come he did not respond. Everyone called bullshit, but it seems he was right.

Quoting dragoneer's response on the FA journal:

In short: IMVU has a large furry community. They feel they could help grow their community by fostering ours, and each side could work hand in hand to make improvements. IMVU could get FA users to check them out, we could grow the site and finally have a budget needed to improve our hardware, software and support.

They get user interest and curiosity, we get funding needed.

[–]DinareDusk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm already there. I've only been a furry since November, and when I first saw FA, I was like "Why is this a thing if it has so many problems?" I don't even have an FA account. The very kind FA-mirror bot around here makes it so I don't need one.

There for sure is more going on here than what is being told(just because there ALWAYS is).

[–]EspurraPocky addicted fluffball 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I also already there, however fact remains that artists are better off on FA because it's the central hub atm. Most commissions are done there.

I would just love for there to be a huge exodus, but I doubt that will happen

[–]korosarumAnarcho-Communist Fox![S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Come to Inkbunny, it's not as bad as you think! (You can blacklist cub stuff very easily, and there's community tagging for dealing with lazy artists)

[–]EspurraPocky addicted fluffball 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm already on weasyl but the problem here is that the central point is and probably will always remain FA

[–]korosarumAnarcho-Communist Fox![S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Definitely, but if they actually follow through with the whole:

"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale"

Then I'm not sure how long that will last.

[–]sircarpfemboi snow mew/redditfurs IRC owner 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm pretty sure every content based website has that clause. I already checked and imgur, sofurry and twitter all have a clause like that.

[–]stupid_ponyFA/Weasyl: Ruggy 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If it's not can we PLEASE MOVE THE HELL AWAY from FA? they just signed their death-warrant.

Guh, I'm down:

"IMVU reserves the right to redistribute content that has been uploaded to FurAffinity as agreed upon in page 9 of the terms of sale."

Eugh.

[–]GullFox 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yikes, one minute into those comments and I'm wishing I had invested in the torches and pitchforks market.

[–]Saamstraat 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

At the risk of sounding stupid, that journal entry is making me giggle.

Perhaps it should be dried, rolled and smoked?

Edit: and... now I can't get Homer Simpson's rendition of Smoke on the Water out of my head. :/

[–]Infamous0823FA:Ringgar; lean on me! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now I don't like to hop into drama like this, but it appears that they did say they would run independently, still. No overlapping or integration and whatnot. So I'm guessing that there will probably be very little change from this. We could all go back to our lives now, folks. Pretty please? Am I the only one thinking this?

[–]Saamstraat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You echo my thoughts well.

[–]Namrepus221Tigron 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

On one hand, I'm kinda glad to see the site finally get the upgrades it's so needed. However, I don't hold out hope that things will not go down the crapper.

Frankly i give it till after Anthrocon for this deal to really have any affects on the site either positive or negative.

[–]NearPupBichon Frisé 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess that explains the new features in the past month?

[–]MaikeruNeko 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's something that should raise eyebrows. I'm a member of IMVU and I can confirm they actively censor terms as innocuous as "yiff". Note that this is even for content flagged as "AP" (Access Pass, the adults-only option you pay a one-time fee for). Yup. You've certified you're an adult by putting a $20 (or thereabouts) charge on a credit card, but you're still not allowed to search for rooms/people with "yiff" in their description/interests. And if you do put "yiff" in your description/interests and someone reports you, they'll wipe the full text with a warning message. Other terms I'm aware of include futa, and various BDSM keywords.

[–]-Lemoncola-Combat-Medic Fusky 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dildos

[–]MythologySabartoof Kat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Official Forum Announcement

I suppose this means the ban on posting SL Screenshots will become more totalitarian while posting IMVU Screenshots will get it's own category.

[–]Ragehound 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

UM WTF

[–]Terwin94GSD and Irish Setter with a hat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So when can we just stop using FA?

[–]Thyself17rrriley on FA! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As somebody brought up on another site, it would be interesting to see why IMVU really has any interest in this. They've had their ad on the site for awhile now, but they wouldn't buy the site unless they were pretty darned sure that they were going to make a lot more money on it.

That means either Dragoneer sold out for very very little, or IMVU is going to make changes that increase their profit margin (if you have ever been to their site, you already know its a clusterfuck of ads). Either way... eugh. See you on weasyl!

[–]allthefoxes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

heavy breathing

[–]fivetailfox 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Man, is this ever a great example of how social media gets out of control.

[–]SittingInYourBushesCyborg Wolf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm still kinda new to the furry community, and I've played IMVU some through the years. And... Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?

[–]patch_ofurr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very interesting news. IMVU reached out to my "furry news" blog in January and got an article about their appearance at Fur Con. https://dogpatchpress.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/imvu-further-confusion/

That was before this was announced but apparently around when they bought the site. They must have been testing the waters about response.

I got comments from the CEO for that story. I will get in touch again for a story about this. Can I pass on any questions from anyone?

[–]IllfordAzure vulpine 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The ship is on fire, and your surprised the Capitan is abandoning ship? FA is a clusterfuck and I haven't used IMVU but that has to be more put together than FA.

Also, it can't be an April fools joke because that's still a month away, and this deal was done 2 months ago.

[–]aGIFTedTrollI accept hugs :3 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

April 1st isn't for another 13 days. What gives?

Also, if this truly isn't some sort of joke, I can't imagine why some company like that would want to deal with what is effectively half an art site and half a porn site, and a weird one at that.

[–]korosarumAnarcho-Communist Fox![S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's basically Second Life in your browser. If they ban porn on that site it's basically dead, though.

[–]EspurraPocky addicted fluffball 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only reason IMVU still lives at all is because they allow porn/cybering in the chat.

[–]GodziilllaBirdDeer with a keyboard 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What?

...

What?

[–]SoundWolvesGerman Shepherd -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

wat

...

Well, I'm glad I use Sofurry instead of FA, to say the very fucking least.