全ての 74 コメント

[–]KeeganB 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Good.

[–][削除されました]  (8子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]KeeganB 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I've got bad new for you. Slavery happened. Racism exists. It is a huge part of our history that needs to be remembered and never repeated. Crying about the name of a building is not how that is done.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]KeeganB 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      My statement about crying was not targeted at you, or suggesting you were doing the crying. Sorry if it came across that way. Both of your points are valid.

      [–]theMUFFINcatMAN -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      In a different context, however, if there was a building on campus affectionately known as Auschwitz Hall, originally named after Duchy of Auschwitz, Bavaria in 1910 would we keep it named that way?

      [–]FusedMentality 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      That's a stretch. You're trying to compare a man in charge of a concentration camp dedicated to exterminating a race in what is probably the world's greatest tragedy, to a man that had some racist views and actions which were fairly common at the time. I don't want to defend Tillman's actions because he was wrong, but if the only argument for a name change is racism from the late 1800's, why aren't people also arguing to change the name of Clemson all together? Thomas Green Clemson has an interesting background also...

      [–]CUHokie 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'd like to point out that the views represented by Auschwitz and the actions taken there were very common at the time in Germany. Just because someone's views and actions were common at the time does not excuse them, nor can they be ignored when deciding if that person should be honored by having their name on a building.

      [–]samsy2 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Thank God this can be put to bed. I guess next they go after Strom Thurmond....

      If as much time to getting this Name changed was put into lowering the over inflated price of books and tuition, something might actually get done.

      [–]MRatata 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Strom Thurmond's granddaughter thinks the building on campus should also include her mother's name. Fair point. Hell, SCState should have a statue of her since apparently Thurmond funded the law program there just for her family.

      [–]wcrisler 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It was a blanket statement for all buildings on campus, so the ST Institute is also still going to be that. People could go after the fitness center at South Carolina, though I guess (also named after Thurmond)...

      [–]veringer -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Reminder: "they" are fellow tigers.

      [–]theMUFFINcatMAN 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I don't understand why some students are so adamant about the names of these buildings. It's like the dialogue about what is or what isn't appropriate for public universities actually causes pain to some people.

      [–]veringer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's like the dialogue about what is or what isn't appropriate for public universities actually causes pain to some people.

      That's because it does:

      cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time, or is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values.

      I lamented it in another comment, but I get the impression that some/most of the upvotes there are coming from people who misinterpreted my statement.

      [–]veringer 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This issue and the apparent cognitive dissonance on display has been embarrassing to witness. I'm a little ashamed of the Clemson family. Downvotes are to the left.

      [–]Patriot_Historian -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (31子コメント)

      I'm glad the name won't change but Clemson really needs to do something to reconcile its past with the present. The land that Clemson sits on is pretty much ground zero for South Carolina's collective racist past.

      1. Sits on Calhoun's land. The man who argued slavery as a positive good for society, further entrenching the slave system into the Southern Psyche.

      2. Sits on land donated by a slave owner (Clemson).

      3. Founded by Ben Tillman, the architect of Jim Crow, participant in the Hamburg Massacre, and advocated for killing blacks to maintain white supremacy.

      Thats a lot of baggage to address none of it.

      [–]Sound_of_Science 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (26子コメント)

      Oh I know! Let's just take the university and push it somewhere else!

      What could we possibly do about our location and why does it matter? Those men are dead and our values have changed. We're a top twenty public university that is accepting of diversity. What could we possibly need to reconcile?

      [–]thenewiBall 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      We're a top twenty public university that is accepting of diversity.

      What in the fuck does that even mean? It's a federal offence to not accept minorities as a public school.

      [–]PipeSmokeMcGee 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      We remember these guys for the good they did. Without Tillman, there would be no Clemson University.

      Now was he a good dude? No, not at all. I am kin to Tillman and have no problem saying that. However, he did do some good things. We've all got our issues, some way worse than others, in his case.

      Take Martin Luther King Jr...he is remembered for his great work to make strides for blacks during the Civil Rights Movement. However, he could easily be called a dirtbag...he was chronically unfaithful to his wife and family, a serial adulterer, a open supporter of the Viet Cong and Ho Chi Minh, and a Socialist.

      [–]Patriot_Historian 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      We remember these guys for the good they did.

      We should also remember them for the unspeakable evil they promoted. There is stuff to be learned from it.

      he was chronically unfaithful to his wife and family, a serial adulterer, a open supporter of the Viet Cong and Ho Chi Minh, and a Socialist.

      Promoting murder, participating in a massacre, thinking the murder of children is acceptable, and disenfranchising millions of people isn't even the same league as cheating on your wife and being a GASP! socialist.

      But cool false comparison to detract from the issue at hand.

      [–]Ron_Cherry -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      And he plagiarized his doctoral dissertation.

      [–]WinterCharm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Wilkins says it best in the article.

      "Every great institution is built by imperfect craftsmen," he said. "Stone by stone they add to the foundation so that over many, many generations, we get a variety of stones. And so it is with Clemson. Some of our historical stones are rough and even unpleasant to look at. But they are ours and denying them as part of our history does not make them any less so.

      And

      there are other, more meaningful, changes Clemson can make than what he called a "symbolic gesture" to rename Tillman Hall.

      He has a point here.

      [–]veringer 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Except that changing the name is in no way "denying" history. People who say the holocaust never happened; they're denying history. Changing the name of a building is many things, but it's not a denial.

      there are other, more meaningful, changes Clemson can make than what he called a "symbolic gesture" to rename Tillman Hall.

      I don't understand why it's framed as an either / or. Why not make the "meaningful" changes and address the name too? Symbolic gestures are not intrinsically bad things. We do them all the time. Why bother setting the flag at half-mast or taking communion? The argument just doesn't make any sense to me.

      [–]astrawnomore 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Tillman hall is never going to have its name changed because most people in the area have a freaky fetish for tradition.

      [–]veringer 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It was renamed from the traditional "Old Main" to Tillman. There is a precedent for change.